The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
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Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
Arrest made in death of Arkansas politician
We may learn more about the mysterious killing of former Arkansas state senator Linda Collins-Smith. A woman suspected in the case, Rebecca O'Donnell, is expected to appear in court in a few hours. Collins-Smith was found dead outside her home earlier this month. A former member of her staff says the two women were friends. Jericka Duncan reports.Jun 17, 2019
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We may learn more about the mysterious killing of former Arkansas state senator Linda Collins-Smith. A woman suspected in the case, Rebecca O'Donnell, is expected to appear in court in a few hours. Collins-Smith was found dead outside her home earlier this month. A former member of her staff says the two women were friends. Jericka Duncan reports.Jun 17, 2019
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Guest- Guest
Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
Here's a radical idea, not to be taken too lightly.
Forget the average age and outside average age of male/female puberty, that alone shouldn't dictate the acceptable age of consent. Forget man-made adjectives to cover all eventualities, to explain or excuse sexual perversion towards minors. Forget the whys and wherefores of who lives where compared to who lives there.
One rule and one rule alone to encompass the law on child sex abuse - is it that so difficult to determine and implement?
A notional .... let's say sixteen for this the 21st century. Not thirteen because Daisy started puberty at the age of ten, or Wayne who had thoughts of the flesh at the age of twelve because he saw the neighbours knickers hanging on the line - let's have a golden rule about child sex abuse with no exceptions. Let's cut to the chase and throw out psychology terms that cover every age from birth to the late teens. They account for nothing in the world of child sex abuse.
A child used and abused is a child used and abused no matter what age
The desire for sex with a minor - even viewing child pornography, whatever the legal age of consent determined by law, to be a criminal offence. No ifs no buts no maybes - a definitive rule to cover all eventualities.
So what are we waiting for? If it's the 49 bus from Clapham Junction to Tooting terminus - forget it!
Forget the average age and outside average age of male/female puberty, that alone shouldn't dictate the acceptable age of consent. Forget man-made adjectives to cover all eventualities, to explain or excuse sexual perversion towards minors. Forget the whys and wherefores of who lives where compared to who lives there.
One rule and one rule alone to encompass the law on child sex abuse - is it that so difficult to determine and implement?
A notional .... let's say sixteen for this the 21st century. Not thirteen because Daisy started puberty at the age of ten, or Wayne who had thoughts of the flesh at the age of twelve because he saw the neighbours knickers hanging on the line - let's have a golden rule about child sex abuse with no exceptions. Let's cut to the chase and throw out psychology terms that cover every age from birth to the late teens. They account for nothing in the world of child sex abuse.
A child used and abused is a child used and abused no matter what age
The desire for sex with a minor - even viewing child pornography, whatever the legal age of consent determined by law, to be a criminal offence. No ifs no buts no maybes - a definitive rule to cover all eventualities.
So what are we waiting for? If it's the 49 bus from Clapham Junction to Tooting terminus - forget it!
Guest- Guest
Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
That's how normal people think, but we seem to be in the minority these days. Paedophiles are in every profession, and when they reach the top, decent folk don't stand a chance. Lawyers, police officers, doctors, teachers, social workers etc - every profession we encounter is rife with them, and they have the upper hand. They are brave souls indeed who are prepared to tackle them, endangering their own lives.
Guest- Guest
Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
Yes, sadly you are quite right - what chance do we stand of protecting our children?
In reality it's nothing new, it's a problem that's been going on for hundreds even thousands of years, made easier by the advent of the internet.
It just sickens me to see how glibly the establishment view such a serious problem.
In reality it's nothing new, it's a problem that's been going on for hundreds even thousands of years, made easier by the advent of the internet.
It just sickens me to see how glibly the establishment view such a serious problem.
Guest- Guest
Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
Come-on miss, you're old enough to know the score. What were you doing there in the first place?
No good shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.
Masseurs are notorious - see the word and you instantly know what to expect. Extras are part of the deal.
Epstein is a dirty old man with enough cash to splash. Money talks.
Guest- Guest
Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
Dunno about a club - they live in another world. A galaxy far far away ....
Perish the thought of when Branson finally succeeds with his space travel adventure. Taking the mile high club to a whole new dimension.
Perish the thought of when Branson finally succeeds with his space travel adventure. Taking the mile high club to a whole new dimension.
Guest- Guest
Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
Hi Verdi, with on board company Tony, Cherrie Blair, Kitty been to Knecker Island, Epstein clingon's?
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Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
One way of getting rid of unwanted earthlings - rocket 'em up into space along with Major Tom.
This is Major Tom to Ground Control
I'm stepping through the door
And I'm floating in a most peculiar way
And the stars look very different today
I'm stepping through the door
And I'm floating in a most peculiar way
And the stars look very different today
Space Oddity - David Bowie
Not much different to leaving the Palace of Westminster.
Guest- Guest
Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
I know it’s ‘The Sun’, but they are only ten days behind:
Secret files in case of girl, 17, ‘forced to have sex with Prince Andrew by Jeffrey Epstein’ to be opened after ruling
Holly Christodoulou
14 Jul 2019, 15:55
Updated: 15 Jul 2019, 11:56
SECRET files accusing Prince Andrew of having sex with Jeffrey Epstein's 17-year-old "sex slave" are going to be unsealed by a judge.
Prince Andrew strongly denies the claims, with billionaire [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] this week pleading not guilty to child sex trafficking charges in New York.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Prince Andrew pictured with Virgina Giuffre (previously Virginia Roberts) when she was aged 17 at socialite Ghislaine Maxwell's London townhouse in 2001Credit: Rex Features
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The Duke of York, 59, was pictured walking in Central Park with Epstein, 66, in 2010 and has faced criticism over his relationship with the child abuserCredit: Jae Donnelly
The 66-year-old financier is accused of recruiting girls – some aged as young as 14 – and sexually abusing them at his homes in Manhattan and Palm Beach, Florida.
If found guilty Epstein could face 45 years in prison.
Around 2,000 files from a defamation case involving alleged trafficking victim Virgina Roberts are now due to be released following a US Court of Appeal ruling, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] reports.
ANDREW SEX CLAIMS
Roberts, now 35, claimed in 2015 she was forced to have sex with [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]by Epstein in London, New York and the Caribbean.
The Duke of York was pictured with his arm around the then 17-year-old's waist at the home of Ghislane Maxwell - a personal aide to the financier - in London in 2001 but has strongly denied the claims.
But a judge threw the accusations against Andrew out because they were "immaterial and impertinent" to Epstein's case.
The mum-of-three accused Epstein of recruiting her as a "sex slave" - and said she had been "procured for sexual activities" by Maxwell.
Roberts then successfully sued Maxwell for defamation after she branded her a "liar" and the documents were sealed following a legal argument.
But the ruling earlier this month at the US Court of Appeal heard how public's right to know outweighed the privacy rights of people who wanted to keep secrets.
EPSTEIN CHARGES
The Duke of York, 59, has previously faced criticism over his relationship with the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and was pictured walking in Central Park with him in December 2010.
That snap was taken during Andrew’s four-day stay at Epstein’s $77m mansion in Manhattan – shortly after [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]had been freed from prison after a previous child sex trafficking conviction in Florida.
It has also emerged he holidayed with Epstein in Thailand in 2001 and invited him to stay at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]and the Queen’s Sandringham estate.
Epstein’s mansion on the Upper East Side of Mahattan, where the party reportedly took place, was raided by cops last weekend.
Officers found pictures of naked women some of whom appeared to be underage, prosecutors said.
The billionaire hedge fund manager is accused of maintaining a “vast network of underage victims” – some as young as 14.
He faces 45 years in jail if found guilty on all counts.
The palace said: "It is emphatically denied that [Andrew] had any form of sexual contact or relationship with Virginia Roberts. Any claim to the contrary is false."
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Prince Andrew joined Epstein with friends on a yacht in Phuket in 2001Credit: Jason Fraser
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Secret files in case of girl, 17, ‘forced to have sex with Prince Andrew by Jeffrey Epstein’ to be opened after ruling
Holly Christodoulou
14 Jul 2019, 15:55
Updated: 15 Jul 2019, 11:56
SECRET files accusing Prince Andrew of having sex with Jeffrey Epstein's 17-year-old "sex slave" are going to be unsealed by a judge.
Prince Andrew strongly denies the claims, with billionaire [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] this week pleading not guilty to child sex trafficking charges in New York.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Prince Andrew pictured with Virgina Giuffre (previously Virginia Roberts) when she was aged 17 at socialite Ghislaine Maxwell's London townhouse in 2001Credit: Rex Features
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
The Duke of York, 59, was pictured walking in Central Park with Epstein, 66, in 2010 and has faced criticism over his relationship with the child abuserCredit: Jae Donnelly
The 66-year-old financier is accused of recruiting girls – some aged as young as 14 – and sexually abusing them at his homes in Manhattan and Palm Beach, Florida.
If found guilty Epstein could face 45 years in prison.
Around 2,000 files from a defamation case involving alleged trafficking victim Virgina Roberts are now due to be released following a US Court of Appeal ruling, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] reports.
ANDREW SEX CLAIMS
Roberts, now 35, claimed in 2015 she was forced to have sex with [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]by Epstein in London, New York and the Caribbean.
The Duke of York was pictured with his arm around the then 17-year-old's waist at the home of Ghislane Maxwell - a personal aide to the financier - in London in 2001 but has strongly denied the claims.
But a judge threw the accusations against Andrew out because they were "immaterial and impertinent" to Epstein's case.
The mum-of-three accused Epstein of recruiting her as a "sex slave" - and said she had been "procured for sexual activities" by Maxwell.
Roberts then successfully sued Maxwell for defamation after she branded her a "liar" and the documents were sealed following a legal argument.
But the ruling earlier this month at the US Court of Appeal heard how public's right to know outweighed the privacy rights of people who wanted to keep secrets.
EPSTEIN CHARGES
The Duke of York, 59, has previously faced criticism over his relationship with the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and was pictured walking in Central Park with him in December 2010.
That snap was taken during Andrew’s four-day stay at Epstein’s $77m mansion in Manhattan – shortly after [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]had been freed from prison after a previous child sex trafficking conviction in Florida.
It has also emerged he holidayed with Epstein in Thailand in 2001 and invited him to stay at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]and the Queen’s Sandringham estate.
Epstein’s mansion on the Upper East Side of Mahattan, where the party reportedly took place, was raided by cops last weekend.
Officers found pictures of naked women some of whom appeared to be underage, prosecutors said.
The billionaire hedge fund manager is accused of maintaining a “vast network of underage victims” – some as young as 14.
He faces 45 years in jail if found guilty on all counts.
The palace said: "It is emphatically denied that [Andrew] had any form of sexual contact or relationship with Virginia Roberts. Any claim to the contrary is false."
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Prince Andrew joined Epstein with friends on a yacht in Phuket in 2001Credit: Jason Fraser
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Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
The Sun wrote:ANDREW SEX CLAIMS
Roberts, now 35, claimed in 2015 she was forced to have sex with Prince Andrewby Epstein in London, New York and the Caribbean.
So Ms Roberts was 31 years of age in 2015, when she was forced to have sex with Prince Andrew - in London, New York and the Caribbean ?
It'll be interesting to see how this one pans out.
Guest- Guest
Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
I think that’s when she made the claim Verdi!
Doug D- Posts : 3719
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Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
Jeffrey Epstein was very fortunate to get away with such little punishment when his child trafficking of under-age girls for sex was oriiginally discovered 11 years ago.
Although sentenced in 2008 to 13 months in prison, he was allowed out every day for 8 hours to pursue his business interests! And somehow, the charge against him of child trafficking of young girls for sex, which I think carries a maximum term of life imprisonment in the U.S., was reduced to 'soliciting prostitutes' - one of the most generous plea deals in history. (Well, at least until the Jussie Smollett case).
A lot depends on whether the police have seized Epstein's 'black book' of names of all his contacts, in addition to who exactly took a ride on his 'Lolita Express'. The list of names will probably put the Elm House Guest list in the shade.
President Donald Trump vowed to 'drain the swamp' and by that he meant not only the corrupt activities of the Clintons and the Democratic Party but also bringing paedophiles to justice. He has appointed a very sound and dedicated Attorney-General, William Barr, who looks like he means business
Although sentenced in 2008 to 13 months in prison, he was allowed out every day for 8 hours to pursue his business interests! And somehow, the charge against him of child trafficking of young girls for sex, which I think carries a maximum term of life imprisonment in the U.S., was reduced to 'soliciting prostitutes' - one of the most generous plea deals in history. (Well, at least until the Jussie Smollett case).
A lot depends on whether the police have seized Epstein's 'black book' of names of all his contacts, in addition to who exactly took a ride on his 'Lolita Express'. The list of names will probably put the Elm House Guest list in the shade.
President Donald Trump vowed to 'drain the swamp' and by that he meant not only the corrupt activities of the Clintons and the Democratic Party but also bringing paedophiles to justice. He has appointed a very sound and dedicated Attorney-General, William Barr, who looks like he means business
____________________
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Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
"Roberts, now 35, claimed in 2015 she was forced to have sex with [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] by Epstein in London, New York and the Caribbean.
The Duke of York was pictured with his arm around the then 17-year-old's waist "
2019 = 35
2015 = 31
2001 = 17
Interesting to note that individual States have different laws about the age of consent.
Chaplin used this when he married a young woman in a neighbouring State when sleeping with her would have been a serious offence in the State he was in. The States have to recognise all marriages, even though it leads to this ludicrous situation.
And in Europe - the teacher who went off with the pupil could not be extradited from France for 'under age' sexual contact, because it was consensual, and was not a crime known to that jurisdiction.
So they got him for 'kidnapping' and added the USI when he got back to the UK. Sneaky, and of doubtful legality
Ludicrous situation, but it is the Law, so that is what we must expect.
The Duke of York was pictured with his arm around the then 17-year-old's waist "
2019 = 35
2015 = 31
2001 = 17
Interesting to note that individual States have different laws about the age of consent.
Chaplin used this when he married a young woman in a neighbouring State when sleeping with her would have been a serious offence in the State he was in. The States have to recognise all marriages, even though it leads to this ludicrous situation.
And in Europe - the teacher who went off with the pupil could not be extradited from France for 'under age' sexual contact, because it was consensual, and was not a crime known to that jurisdiction.
So they got him for 'kidnapping' and added the USI when he got back to the UK. Sneaky, and of doubtful legality
Ludicrous situation, but it is the Law, so that is what we must expect.
Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
It was.Doug D wrote:I think that’s when she made the claim Verdi!
Our ruling elite are either running sex rings or using them to control other people in "the club".
The people who really run the world are not nice and don't play nice.
Guest- Guest
Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
Doug D wrote:I think that’s when she made the claim Verdi!
You're missing the point!
Forced to have sex with Prince Andrew in London, New York and the Carribean.
Did they have her tethered by collar and lead and drag her across the continents?
I don't doubt for a second there are genuine victims of pandemic child sex abuse.
Very young children taken from institutions to satiate the lust of a pervert and domestic abuse of very young children should be the primary focus, little children who can't understand what's happening to them, little children who can't walk away, little children who can't speak for themselves.
Sassy youngsters know where they're at - little children don't!
For heavens sake, seventeen year olds shack-up together, inhibition went out with Queen Victoria - probably one of the biggest hypocrites in world history.
Teenagers are sexually active, how many pregnancies are there across the globe resulting from consensual careless intercourse?
Without proof it's one word against another - not so with little children.
Guest- Guest
Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
even in 'civilised' Europe there is no real consensus.
It is a social and religious construct, not a medical or rational one.
WIKI
The [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] vary by jurisdiction across [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. The ages of consent are currently set between 14 and 18. The vast majority of countries set their ages in the range of 14 to 16; only four countries, Cyprus (17), Ireland (17), Turkey (18) and Vatican City (18), do not fit into this pattern. The laws can also stipulate the specific activities that are permitted or differentially specify the age at which a given sex can participate.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
It is a social and religious construct, not a medical or rational one.
WIKI
The [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] vary by jurisdiction across [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. The ages of consent are currently set between 14 and 18. The vast majority of countries set their ages in the range of 14 to 16; only four countries, Cyprus (17), Ireland (17), Turkey (18) and Vatican City (18), do not fit into this pattern. The laws can also stipulate the specific activities that are permitted or differentially specify the age at which a given sex can participate.
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Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
The gym teacher who hangs around the shower block after lessons to make sure the pupils are stripped down to naked, heck I knew at the age of thirteen that it wasn't right.
The headmaster with his authoritative stick, rubbing his hands together with glee at the prospect of a schoolboy across his knee for a good thrashing.
I dread to think what goes on in the inner sanctums of a monastery or nunnery before the eyes of God!
Life goes on ....
The headmaster with his authoritative stick, rubbing his hands together with glee at the prospect of a schoolboy across his knee for a good thrashing.
I dread to think what goes on in the inner sanctums of a monastery or nunnery before the eyes of God!
Life goes on ....
Guest- Guest
Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
The Vatican doesn't need an age of consent.
They get what they want without consent - it's institutionalized abuse. Age is not a consideration.
Maybe all eyes should be on His Paypalness or the old school tie brigade ensconced in the Palace of Westminster and beyond, not some stinking rich dirty old man who can so easily buy sexual favours - and clearly does.
Public schools and boarding schools appear to breed.
They get what they want without consent - it's institutionalized abuse. Age is not a consideration.
Maybe all eyes should be on His Paypalness or the old school tie brigade ensconced in the Palace of Westminster and beyond, not some stinking rich dirty old man who can so easily buy sexual favours - and clearly does.
Public schools and boarding schools appear to breed.
Guest- Guest
Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
At BGS it was a classics master – who unaccountably took the first year boys for swimming – and insisted on 'towelling himself off' in front of them. Everyone knew he was a pervert and a sad old misfit, but so far as we know he never did anything else.
It was thus a valuable lesson !
It was thus a valuable lesson !
Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
Verdi wrote:Sassy youngsters know where they're at - little children don't!
For heavens sake, seventeen year olds shack-up together, inhibition went out with Queen Victoria - probably one of the biggest hypocrites in world history.
Teenagers are sexually active, how many pregnancies are there across the globe resulting from consensual careless intercourse?
Without proof it's one word against another - not so with little children.
I don't know the specifics of the example you mentioned, but the quoted portion I feel needs addressing.
The rational part of the human brain isn't finished developing until around age 25 on average. So evidently teenagers aren't ready to make life changing decisions yet (which isnt to say that some don't make such decisions, merely that they do so without the correct faculties to do so in a rational and informed way).
Childhood is hugely important and shapes future personality and actions, hence we have things like the ACE scale and even epigenetics to consider. Someone abused at a young age is inordinately more likely to be abusive or violent as an adult (not to even mention other mental health effects) - we all know the stereotype about serial killers and the general pattern in their youths for example.
It's very easy to say 'sassy' youngsters and assume there to be a one size fits all example of a teenager, but that's simply not true and takes away responsibility from parents whose job it is to raise well adjusted, responsible young human beings. Earlier experiences are a huge part of how people develop, and even then there are divergent paths: someone treated with violent abuse as a child may repeat the cycle, or they may grow up inherently knowing that violence to children is wrong, and model the opposite behaviour when they parent. Self knowledge becomes more important as age increases, and that is also an important thing to instill.
Imagine a vat of white ink. A few spots of red and yellow ink are accidentally dropped onto the surface, and a wayward employee occasionally stirs the tank. Sometimes the ink will congeal naturally into a pale orange, but that doesnt mean that by its nature white ink is inevitably orange, or that its nature is to be stirred (forgive the metaphor, it comes out better with the mental image I have!).
A good upbringing, instilling ethics, non aggression principle and negotiation is the always best preparation - where it is absent, the parents must shoulder a portion of the blame for poor choices in teens.
So while it's true that there are teenage pregnancies, and gangs, violence, substance abuse etc, that doesn't mean it's the expected level. There will always be curiosity, hormones and the testing of boundaries in the natural course of things. But I hardly think young, mutually naive teenage couples can be conflated with fully formed adults manipulating rationally and experientially inept teenagers. They are vastly different situations, and the latter is often exacerbated by creating substance dependencies in the victim, at which point they are subservant. I would hardly call such a situation an 'inevitable one for sassy youngsters'.
Just my two penn'orth.
Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
Is his island called Entrapment Island?
I wonder if there are cameras everywhere.
I wonder if there are cameras everywhere.
Guest- Guest
Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
There has to be a mystery shopper - even Asda has those.BlueBag wrote:Is his island called Entrapment Island?
I wonder if there are cameras everywhere.
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Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
“It’s Going to Be Staggering, the Amount of Names”: As the Jeffrey Epstein Case Grows More Grotesque, Manhattan and DC Brace for Impact
By [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] July 17, 2019
The disgraced financier “collected people,” said a source. Could some of them be implicated in his crimes? Meanwhile, Alan Dershowitz (“He’s a bad person”) and David Boies (“He’s a liar”) are already at war over the case.
The Jeffrey Epstein case is an asteroid poised to strike the elite world in which he moved. No one can yet say precisely how large it is. But as the number of women who’ve accused the financier (at least, that’s what he claimed to be) of sexual assault grows to grotesque levels—there are said to be more than 50 women who are potential victims—a wave of panic is rippling through Manhattan, DC, and Palm Beach, as Epstein’s former friends and associates rush to distance themselves, while gossiping about who might be ensnared. Donald Trump’s labor secretary, Alexander Acosta, architect of the original 2007 non-prosecution agreement that let Epstein off with a wrist slap, has already been forced to resign.
The questions about Epstein are metastasizing much faster than they can be answered: Who knew what about Epstein’s alleged abuse? How, and from whom, did Epstein get his supposed $500 million fortune? Why did Acosta grant Epstein an outrageously lenient non-prosecution agreement? (And what does it mean that Acosta was [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]told Epstein “belonged to intelligence”?) But among the most pressing queries is which other famous people might be exposed for committing sex crimes. “There were other business associates of Mr. Epstein’s who engaged in improper sexual misconduct at one or more of his homes. We do know that,” said Brad Edwards, a lawyer for Courtney Wild, one of the Epstein accusers who gave emotional testimony at Epstein’s bail hearing. “In due time the names are going to start coming out.” (Attorneys for Epstein did not respond to a request for comment.)
Likely within days, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit will release almost 2,000 pages of documents that could reveal sexual abuse by “numerous prominent American politicians, powerful business executives, foreign presidents, a well-known prime minister, and other world leaders,” according to the three-judge panel's ruling. The documents were filed during a civil defamation lawsuit brought by Epstein accuser Virginia Roberts Giuffre, a former Mar-a-Lago locker-room attendant, against Epstein’s former girlfriend and alleged madam, Ghislaine Maxwell. “Nobody who was around Epstein a lot is going to have an easy time now. It’s all going to come out,” said Giuffre’s lawyer David Boies. Another person involved with litigation against Epstein told me: “It’s going to be staggering, the amount of names. It’s going to be contagion numbers.”
Epstein remained a fixture in elite circles even after he was a registered sex offender. A few years ago, for example, he was a guest at a dinner in Palo Alto hosted by LinkedIn cofounder Reid Hoffmanfor the MIT neuroscientist Ed Boyden.At the dinner, Elon Muskintroduced Epstein to Mark Zuckerberg.(“Mark met Epstein in passing one time at a dinner honoring scientists that was not organized by Epstein,” Zuckerberg spokesman Ben LaBolttold me. “Mark did not communicate with Epstein again following the dinner.”)
In an email, Elon Musk responded: “I don’t recall introducing Epstein to anyone, as I don’t know the guy well enough to do so, Epstein is obviously a creep and Zuckerberg is not a friend of mine. Several years ago, I was at his house in Manhattan for about 30 minutes in the middle of the afternoon with Talulah [Riley], as she was curious about meeting this strange person for a novel she was writing. We did not see anything inappropriate at all, apart from weird art. He tried repeatedly to get me to visit his island. I declined.”
One source who’s done business with Epstein told me that Epstein’s 21,000-square-foot townhouse on East 71st Street welcomed a steady stream of the Davos crowd in the past decade. The source said Bill Gates, Larry Summers,and Steve Bannonvisited the house, which has been called one of the largest private residences in Manhattan. “Jeffrey collected people. That’s what he did,” the source said. Gates and Summers did not respond to requests for comment.
Thus far, the name most publicly associated with Epstein’s alleged crimes is famed lawyer Alan Dershowitz,who’s been waging a public battle with David Boies for years. In April, Boies’s client Giuffre sued Dershowitz for defamation after Dershowitz called her a liar (a strategy similar to that of seven of Bill Cosby’s [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]). In the days since the FBI arrested Epstein at Teterboro Airport a week and a half ago, Dershowitz has been going on television and dialing up friends and reporters to profess his innocence and label Giuffre and Boies liars. “I want everything to come out! I’m not afraid of anything because I did nothing wrong,” Dershowitz told me on the afternoon of July 15.
He called me a minute after I had emailed him for comment. He said he’d been friends with Epstein since 1996, when they were introduced at a party on Martha’s Vineyard by Lynn Forester de Rothschild.“She begged me to meet him. She told me, ‘here’s this smart academic.’” A few days later, Epstein invited Dershowitz to Les Wexner’s 59th birthday party at Wexner’s mansion in New Albany, Ohio. “It’s a tradition that Jeff invited the smartest person he met that year. He told them I was the smartest.” They remained close for years. Dershowitz strenuously denied ever participating in Epstein’s underage sex ring and said he’d only been in Epstein’s presence with his wife. “I got one massage!” he told me. “It was from a 50-year-old Russian woman named Olga. And I kept my shorts on. I didn’t even like it. I’m not a massage guy.”
Dershowitz said he secretly (and legally) tape-recorded settlement conversations with Boies and that the phone calls capture Boies admitting that Giuffre’s allegations aren’t true. “Boies is a bad person,” he told me.
“I never said that,” Boies responded when I asked about Dershowitz’s version of the phone calls. “What Alan does is he plays a second or two out of context; he never lets anybody listen to the whole thing.” Boies also dismissed Dershowitz’s claim that he never met Giuffre at Epstein’s house. According to Boies, Epstein’s former employees said in sworn depositions that they saw Dershowitz at the house multiple times without his wife. “This Olga woman doesn’t exist. Epstein’s barely kept women around who were over 25. It’s a figment of Alan’s imagination,” Boies said.
On Wall Street, Epstein is a subject of mystery—and fear. “I knew Jeff. He came across as very smart, very sophisticated,” one hedge fund manager told me. “He always had a good read on people. But manipulative people are good at that.” Another person who’s been in meetings with Epstein told me: “He’s very clever.”
How Epstein obtained his fortune is a matter of feverish speculation. His claim to a billionaire-only client list now seems laughable to the bankers I spoke with. One Wall Street source with direct knowledge of Epstein’s business said one source of Epstein’s income was providing “tax advice and estate planning” to rich clients, like Apollo Global Management founder Leon Black, presumably because Epstein had experience with offshore funds after basing his office in the Virgin Islands. In 2015 Black made a $10 million [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]to Epstein’s foundation. (Black declined to comment.)
In the absence of much other information, the reigning theory on Wall Street currently is that Epstein’s activities with women and girls were central to the building of his fortune, and his relations with some of his investors essentially amounted to blackmail.
Similarly, DC is on edge. “Epstein bragged about his contacts in Washington,” Boies said. Reporters are likely to dig into why the Justice Department decided not to prosecute Epstein and kept the deal secret from his victims. One theory circulating among prominent Republicans is that Epstein was a Mossad agent. Another is that the George W. BushWhite House directed Acosta not to prosecute Epstein to protect Prince Andrewon behalf of the British government, then the U.S.’s closest ally in the Iraq war. “The royal family did everything they could to try and discredit the Prince Andrew stuff,” Boies told me. “When we tried to follow up with anything, we were stonewalled. We wanted to interview him, they were unwilling to do anything.” (Prince Andrew could not be reached for comment).
Of course, the two Epstein friends that people are most curious about are Donald Trump and Bill Clinton,both of whom have denied anything untoward. During the 2016 presidential race, Hillary Clinton’s campaign consulted Bill’s post–White House Secret Service logs because they were worried Trump would bring up Bill’s close association with Epstein and wanted to get ahead of the story, a source told me.
For those in Epstein’s orbit, the stakes of exposure are bound to get higher as more and more women come forward. Every day seems to bring new horrors about Epstein’s alleged depravity. At a press conference on Tuesday, Courtney Wild’s lawyer Brad Edwards said that after interviewing dozens of Epstein’s accusers, it appeared Epstein spent almost all of his time abusing underage girls. “It was his full-time job,” Edwards said. “We have not found anyone who has provided information about a legitimate business he was engaged [in].”
This article has been updated to include a comment from Elon Musk, and to clarify Epstein's relationship to Leon Black.
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By [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] July 17, 2019
The disgraced financier “collected people,” said a source. Could some of them be implicated in his crimes? Meanwhile, Alan Dershowitz (“He’s a bad person”) and David Boies (“He’s a liar”) are already at war over the case.
The Jeffrey Epstein case is an asteroid poised to strike the elite world in which he moved. No one can yet say precisely how large it is. But as the number of women who’ve accused the financier (at least, that’s what he claimed to be) of sexual assault grows to grotesque levels—there are said to be more than 50 women who are potential victims—a wave of panic is rippling through Manhattan, DC, and Palm Beach, as Epstein’s former friends and associates rush to distance themselves, while gossiping about who might be ensnared. Donald Trump’s labor secretary, Alexander Acosta, architect of the original 2007 non-prosecution agreement that let Epstein off with a wrist slap, has already been forced to resign.
The questions about Epstein are metastasizing much faster than they can be answered: Who knew what about Epstein’s alleged abuse? How, and from whom, did Epstein get his supposed $500 million fortune? Why did Acosta grant Epstein an outrageously lenient non-prosecution agreement? (And what does it mean that Acosta was [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]told Epstein “belonged to intelligence”?) But among the most pressing queries is which other famous people might be exposed for committing sex crimes. “There were other business associates of Mr. Epstein’s who engaged in improper sexual misconduct at one or more of his homes. We do know that,” said Brad Edwards, a lawyer for Courtney Wild, one of the Epstein accusers who gave emotional testimony at Epstein’s bail hearing. “In due time the names are going to start coming out.” (Attorneys for Epstein did not respond to a request for comment.)
Likely within days, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit will release almost 2,000 pages of documents that could reveal sexual abuse by “numerous prominent American politicians, powerful business executives, foreign presidents, a well-known prime minister, and other world leaders,” according to the three-judge panel's ruling. The documents were filed during a civil defamation lawsuit brought by Epstein accuser Virginia Roberts Giuffre, a former Mar-a-Lago locker-room attendant, against Epstein’s former girlfriend and alleged madam, Ghislaine Maxwell. “Nobody who was around Epstein a lot is going to have an easy time now. It’s all going to come out,” said Giuffre’s lawyer David Boies. Another person involved with litigation against Epstein told me: “It’s going to be staggering, the amount of names. It’s going to be contagion numbers.”
Epstein remained a fixture in elite circles even after he was a registered sex offender. A few years ago, for example, he was a guest at a dinner in Palo Alto hosted by LinkedIn cofounder Reid Hoffmanfor the MIT neuroscientist Ed Boyden.At the dinner, Elon Muskintroduced Epstein to Mark Zuckerberg.(“Mark met Epstein in passing one time at a dinner honoring scientists that was not organized by Epstein,” Zuckerberg spokesman Ben LaBolttold me. “Mark did not communicate with Epstein again following the dinner.”)
In an email, Elon Musk responded: “I don’t recall introducing Epstein to anyone, as I don’t know the guy well enough to do so, Epstein is obviously a creep and Zuckerberg is not a friend of mine. Several years ago, I was at his house in Manhattan for about 30 minutes in the middle of the afternoon with Talulah [Riley], as she was curious about meeting this strange person for a novel she was writing. We did not see anything inappropriate at all, apart from weird art. He tried repeatedly to get me to visit his island. I declined.”
One source who’s done business with Epstein told me that Epstein’s 21,000-square-foot townhouse on East 71st Street welcomed a steady stream of the Davos crowd in the past decade. The source said Bill Gates, Larry Summers,and Steve Bannonvisited the house, which has been called one of the largest private residences in Manhattan. “Jeffrey collected people. That’s what he did,” the source said. Gates and Summers did not respond to requests for comment.
Thus far, the name most publicly associated with Epstein’s alleged crimes is famed lawyer Alan Dershowitz,who’s been waging a public battle with David Boies for years. In April, Boies’s client Giuffre sued Dershowitz for defamation after Dershowitz called her a liar (a strategy similar to that of seven of Bill Cosby’s [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]). In the days since the FBI arrested Epstein at Teterboro Airport a week and a half ago, Dershowitz has been going on television and dialing up friends and reporters to profess his innocence and label Giuffre and Boies liars. “I want everything to come out! I’m not afraid of anything because I did nothing wrong,” Dershowitz told me on the afternoon of July 15.
He called me a minute after I had emailed him for comment. He said he’d been friends with Epstein since 1996, when they were introduced at a party on Martha’s Vineyard by Lynn Forester de Rothschild.“She begged me to meet him. She told me, ‘here’s this smart academic.’” A few days later, Epstein invited Dershowitz to Les Wexner’s 59th birthday party at Wexner’s mansion in New Albany, Ohio. “It’s a tradition that Jeff invited the smartest person he met that year. He told them I was the smartest.” They remained close for years. Dershowitz strenuously denied ever participating in Epstein’s underage sex ring and said he’d only been in Epstein’s presence with his wife. “I got one massage!” he told me. “It was from a 50-year-old Russian woman named Olga. And I kept my shorts on. I didn’t even like it. I’m not a massage guy.”
Dershowitz said he secretly (and legally) tape-recorded settlement conversations with Boies and that the phone calls capture Boies admitting that Giuffre’s allegations aren’t true. “Boies is a bad person,” he told me.
“I never said that,” Boies responded when I asked about Dershowitz’s version of the phone calls. “What Alan does is he plays a second or two out of context; he never lets anybody listen to the whole thing.” Boies also dismissed Dershowitz’s claim that he never met Giuffre at Epstein’s house. According to Boies, Epstein’s former employees said in sworn depositions that they saw Dershowitz at the house multiple times without his wife. “This Olga woman doesn’t exist. Epstein’s barely kept women around who were over 25. It’s a figment of Alan’s imagination,” Boies said.
On Wall Street, Epstein is a subject of mystery—and fear. “I knew Jeff. He came across as very smart, very sophisticated,” one hedge fund manager told me. “He always had a good read on people. But manipulative people are good at that.” Another person who’s been in meetings with Epstein told me: “He’s very clever.”
How Epstein obtained his fortune is a matter of feverish speculation. His claim to a billionaire-only client list now seems laughable to the bankers I spoke with. One Wall Street source with direct knowledge of Epstein’s business said one source of Epstein’s income was providing “tax advice and estate planning” to rich clients, like Apollo Global Management founder Leon Black, presumably because Epstein had experience with offshore funds after basing his office in the Virgin Islands. In 2015 Black made a $10 million [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]to Epstein’s foundation. (Black declined to comment.)
In the absence of much other information, the reigning theory on Wall Street currently is that Epstein’s activities with women and girls were central to the building of his fortune, and his relations with some of his investors essentially amounted to blackmail.
Similarly, DC is on edge. “Epstein bragged about his contacts in Washington,” Boies said. Reporters are likely to dig into why the Justice Department decided not to prosecute Epstein and kept the deal secret from his victims. One theory circulating among prominent Republicans is that Epstein was a Mossad agent. Another is that the George W. BushWhite House directed Acosta not to prosecute Epstein to protect Prince Andrewon behalf of the British government, then the U.S.’s closest ally in the Iraq war. “The royal family did everything they could to try and discredit the Prince Andrew stuff,” Boies told me. “When we tried to follow up with anything, we were stonewalled. We wanted to interview him, they were unwilling to do anything.” (Prince Andrew could not be reached for comment).
Of course, the two Epstein friends that people are most curious about are Donald Trump and Bill Clinton,both of whom have denied anything untoward. During the 2016 presidential race, Hillary Clinton’s campaign consulted Bill’s post–White House Secret Service logs because they were worried Trump would bring up Bill’s close association with Epstein and wanted to get ahead of the story, a source told me.
For those in Epstein’s orbit, the stakes of exposure are bound to get higher as more and more women come forward. Every day seems to bring new horrors about Epstein’s alleged depravity. At a press conference on Tuesday, Courtney Wild’s lawyer Brad Edwards said that after interviewing dozens of Epstein’s accusers, it appeared Epstein spent almost all of his time abusing underage girls. “It was his full-time job,” Edwards said. “We have not found anyone who has provided information about a legitimate business he was engaged [in].”
This article has been updated to include a comment from Elon Musk, and to clarify Epstein's relationship to Leon Black.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Doug D- Posts : 3719
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Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
I have seen, on YouTube, American reporters referring to Epstein's victims as "underage women". Doesn't sound as bad as "children"', does it? Drip, drip....
Guest- Guest
Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
Mailine @#81 wrote:I don't know the specifics of the example you mentioned, but the quoted portion I feel needs addressing.
Be that as it may, I'm not talking about a variant of a psychologist's text book theory - I talk of the average teenager in reality.
On pain of death dare anyone suggest that any kid above the age of about fourteen is still a child . On your head be it!
Teenagers are far more likely to be influenced by their peers and what they see on the internet, than some over or under qualified academic theorizing on development between childhood and adulthood. Which incidently depends very much on the individual.
Add to that, they are encouraged by their parents to go to university, to live on campus at an early age without any parental control. To suggest that youngsters are but children until some age prescribed by a psychologist who seriously believes it can read the human mind, is so far removed from the real world.
My view remains unchanged. As you've probably gathered, my view of the world of psychology is roughly on a par with my view of reverse speech. Quacks in swan feathers.
Guest- Guest
Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
Hi Verdi, age of consent "Sexual conduct", doesn't help with Society when Law Makers are encouraging their friends in society for age of consent lowered to 10 yrs of Age, aka, UK 1970's, you know the names?Verdi wrote:Mailine @#81 wrote:I don't know the specifics of the example you mentioned, but the quoted portion I feel needs addressing.
Be that as it may, I'm not talking about a variant of a psychologist's text book theory - I talk of the average teenager in reality.
On pain of death dare anyone suggest that any kid above the age of about fourteen is still a child . On your head be it!
Teenagers are far more likely to be influenced by their peers and what they see on the internet, than some over or under qualified academic theorizing on development between childhood and adulthood. Which incidently depends very much on the individual.
Add to that, they are encouraged by their parents to go to university, to live on campus at an early age without any parental control. To suggest that youngsters are but children until some age prescribed by a psychologist who seriously believes it can read the human mind, is so far removed from the real world.
My view remains unchanged. As you've probably gathered, my view of the world of psychology is roughly on a par with my view of reverse speech. Quacks in swan feathers.
Skull & Crossbones club in USA, mysterious Deaths on weekend breaks, Child Sex abuse?
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Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
I totally agree with you willow but the situation is not helped by modern parenting attitudes.
On the streets I see conceited kids dressed up to the nines in all the latest gear, boys and girls - kids between about eight years and teenagers, they're even worse when teenagers. It's the parents who indulge them such, not the establishment, although it is encouraged by seductive marketing and governmental influence.
Ages ago I read a press article about a mother who took her nine year old daughter to a Miley Cyrus gig. The mother was outraged by the antics of the performer before an auditorium packed with adults and children. I know very little about the latest pop stars but I'm aware of the likes of Miley Cyrus as her provacative on-stage performance - she's hardly the only one. Not a very good influence is it?
Gone are the days when children were allowed to be children and develop at their own pace.
On the streets I see conceited kids dressed up to the nines in all the latest gear, boys and girls - kids between about eight years and teenagers, they're even worse when teenagers. It's the parents who indulge them such, not the establishment, although it is encouraged by seductive marketing and governmental influence.
Ages ago I read a press article about a mother who took her nine year old daughter to a Miley Cyrus gig. The mother was outraged by the antics of the performer before an auditorium packed with adults and children. I know very little about the latest pop stars but I'm aware of the likes of Miley Cyrus as her provacative on-stage performance - she's hardly the only one. Not a very good influence is it?
Gone are the days when children were allowed to be children and develop at their own pace.
Guest- Guest
Re: The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein
Jeffrey Epstein denied bail while awaiting sex trafficking trial
Federal judge rules financier is a ‘danger to others’ while awaiting trial for the alleged sexual abuse of underage girls from 2002 to 2005
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Thu 18 Jul 2019 16.38 BST
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] has been denied bail while awaiting a federal sex trafficking trial in New York.
“The government has established danger to others and to the community by clear and convincing evidence,” the Manhattan federal court Judge Richard Berman said on Thursday. “I doubt that any bail package can overcome a danger to the community.”
The financier – who has claimed a net worth of about $560m – has been jailed in the Metropolitan Correctional Center since his 6 July arrest for alleged sexual abuse of underage girls from 2002 to 2005. Some of his victims were just 14 years old, according to a 13-page indictment charging Epstein with sex trafficking and sex trafficking conspiracy.
Lawyers for Epstein, who became a registered sex offender after another case in Florida 11 years ago, had argued the 66-year-old did not pose a danger. After his 2008 guilty plea to state prostitution charges and 13 months behind bars that ensued, he has been on the straight and narrow, they claimed.
Epstein’s lawyers had also argued conditions such as [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], and a mortgage-backed bond on his approximately $56m Upper East Side manse, would have mitigated any risk of flight.
But prosecutors portrayed Epstein as posing a risk. Authorities found possibly thousands of photographs in Epstein’s home showing young women, and “at least one individual in those photos … has self-identified as a victim of the defendant,” prosecutor Alex Rossmiller told Berman during Monday’s bail arguments.
“Just this morning, the government became aware that in a locked safe in the defendant’s mansion there were piles of cash, dozens of diamonds, and a passport appearing to be issued from a foreign country with a photo of the defendant and a name on that passport that is not the defendant’s name,” Rossmiller also said.
The passport, which listed Epstein’s country of residence as Saudi Arabia, “gives rise to the inference the defendant knows how to obtain false travel documents and/or assume other, foreign identities. This adds to the serious risk of flight posed by the defendant,” prosecutors argued in court papers following the proceeding.
Epstein’s lawyers downplayed the document, saying it was an Austrian passport that expired more than 30 years ago.
Brown also exposed a government cover-up in which Epstein got away with an exceptionally light sentence that saw him serve only 13 months in jail. She discovered that a “non-prosecution agreement” had been negotiated secretly in 2008 by the then top federal prosecutor in Miami, Alexander Acosta, that gave Epstein and his co-conspirators immunity from federal prosecution.
In 2017, Acosta was appointed by Donald Trump as labor secretary, a post that ironically is responsible for [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].
“As for the Austrian passport the government trumpets, it expired 32 years ago. And the government offers nothing to suggest – and certainly no evidence – that Epstein ever used it,” Epstein’s lawyers said in court papers after the proceeding. “In any case, Epstein – an affluent member of the Jewish faith – acquired the passport in the 1980s, when hijackings were prevalent, in connection to Middle East travel.”
“The passport was for personal protection in the event of travel to dangerous areas, only to be presented to potential kidnapers, hijackers or terrorists should violent episodes occur,” they said.
Epstein’s case in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] comes in the wake of a watershed Miami Herald investigation that detailed secretive dealings with his 2008 plea deal.
In 2007, Esptein and the Miami US attorney’s office, at the time helmed by Alexander Acosta, entered into an agreement that closed a federal investigation into accusations involving a least 40 teenage girls.
Six days after Epsein’s arrest, Acosta [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Federal judge rules financier is a ‘danger to others’ while awaiting trial for the alleged sexual abuse of underage girls from 2002 to 2005
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Thu 18 Jul 2019 16.38 BST
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] has been denied bail while awaiting a federal sex trafficking trial in New York.
“The government has established danger to others and to the community by clear and convincing evidence,” the Manhattan federal court Judge Richard Berman said on Thursday. “I doubt that any bail package can overcome a danger to the community.”
The financier – who has claimed a net worth of about $560m – has been jailed in the Metropolitan Correctional Center since his 6 July arrest for alleged sexual abuse of underage girls from 2002 to 2005. Some of his victims were just 14 years old, according to a 13-page indictment charging Epstein with sex trafficking and sex trafficking conspiracy.
Lawyers for Epstein, who became a registered sex offender after another case in Florida 11 years ago, had argued the 66-year-old did not pose a danger. After his 2008 guilty plea to state prostitution charges and 13 months behind bars that ensued, he has been on the straight and narrow, they claimed.
Epstein’s lawyers had also argued conditions such as [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], and a mortgage-backed bond on his approximately $56m Upper East Side manse, would have mitigated any risk of flight.
But prosecutors portrayed Epstein as posing a risk. Authorities found possibly thousands of photographs in Epstein’s home showing young women, and “at least one individual in those photos … has self-identified as a victim of the defendant,” prosecutor Alex Rossmiller told Berman during Monday’s bail arguments.
“Just this morning, the government became aware that in a locked safe in the defendant’s mansion there were piles of cash, dozens of diamonds, and a passport appearing to be issued from a foreign country with a photo of the defendant and a name on that passport that is not the defendant’s name,” Rossmiller also said.
The passport, which listed Epstein’s country of residence as Saudi Arabia, “gives rise to the inference the defendant knows how to obtain false travel documents and/or assume other, foreign identities. This adds to the serious risk of flight posed by the defendant,” prosecutors argued in court papers following the proceeding.
Epstein’s lawyers downplayed the document, saying it was an Austrian passport that expired more than 30 years ago.
Brown also exposed a government cover-up in which Epstein got away with an exceptionally light sentence that saw him serve only 13 months in jail. She discovered that a “non-prosecution agreement” had been negotiated secretly in 2008 by the then top federal prosecutor in Miami, Alexander Acosta, that gave Epstein and his co-conspirators immunity from federal prosecution.
In 2017, Acosta was appointed by Donald Trump as labor secretary, a post that ironically is responsible for [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].
“As for the Austrian passport the government trumpets, it expired 32 years ago. And the government offers nothing to suggest – and certainly no evidence – that Epstein ever used it,” Epstein’s lawyers said in court papers after the proceeding. “In any case, Epstein – an affluent member of the Jewish faith – acquired the passport in the 1980s, when hijackings were prevalent, in connection to Middle East travel.”
“The passport was for personal protection in the event of travel to dangerous areas, only to be presented to potential kidnapers, hijackers or terrorists should violent episodes occur,” they said.
Epstein’s case in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] comes in the wake of a watershed Miami Herald investigation that detailed secretive dealings with his 2008 plea deal.
In 2007, Esptein and the Miami US attorney’s office, at the time helmed by Alexander Acosta, entered into an agreement that closed a federal investigation into accusations involving a least 40 teenage girls.
Six days after Epsein’s arrest, Acosta [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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