Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

by **sharonl** 02.08.22 23:04

crusader wrote:I didn't know he was considering the earlier death idea, has Peter written about it? With the evidence G Amaral already has that we don't know about, and Peter's input, I hope something comes of it.

If it can be proven Madeleine was dead before the high tea on Wednesday, that would be fantastic and game over for the McCann's.

If we could get any sense out of Jon Clarke of the Olive press we might just find out who alerted him to Madeleines' alleged abduction and on what date time.

He alleges that he arrived in PDL at 1.30am on May 4th. He lives over 5 hours away in Malaga.

thinking

What is the latest time that he could have left on May 3rd?

by Verdi 03.08.22 1:14

Or perhaps more to the point, the prime suspects and their group of holiday friends should be re-interviewed - if not by the Portuguese police, the British police.

In particular I cite London's Metropolitan Police who were thought to be the finest, the only force with the expertise and competence to tackle such a case - thus the formation of task force Operation Grange.

The same force under the leadership of a succession of like minded chiefs, who never took the initiative to even consider questioning Gerry McCann, Kate McCann, David Payne, Fiona Payne, Jane Tanner, Russell O'Brien, Matt Oldfield, Rachel Oldfield or Dianne Webster.

That is where the mystery lies, not with any of the debris the case has collected over the years in it's various guises. Witnesses, hack journalists, former police officers in for the chance, authors with a story to tell, documentary producers blah blah blah.

That question has never been answered, at least not with any semblance of truth .... why not!?!

Any seasoned senior police officer would not choose to ignore the key players - the only people with any true knowledge of what went on during that fateful week. However it is recorded on video, thanks to the newly appointed chief of the Metropolitan Police, Mark Rowland - the McCanns had already been interviewed and cleared of suspicion by the Portuguese police.

That is a flagrant misrepresentation of fact - some might say a blatant lie!

It's a disgrace.

No question, it is essential that the parent's McCann and their group of holiday friends be re-examined. Lest they forget - the Portuguese police were not at all satisfied with the groups version of events, their version of the truth. That simple fact has never changed, the only diversion has been the crap spread far and wide in order to take the focus off the essential elements.

Give me strength - do they think we've just come in on a bateau banane?

But this is the point across the board isn't it, from terrorism to COVID-19 to war to migration to rising prices to Monkey Pox to multiculturalism (oooh another ism) - just believe what we tell you .... you know it makes sense. But it matters not whether you believe or not, we will carry on regardless for the simple reason there is naff all you can do about it.

by Verdi 03.08.22 1:33

Did David Payne turn up at the patio door of apartment 5a Ocean Club that night, like wee willie winkle in a naughty nighty, a night cap with a candle to light his way? Did Kate McCann glide out of the shower, wrap herself in a towel (usually very small and coarse in a cheap hotel) and pass the time of day with small talk?

Did he walk through an unlocked/open patio door, did he knock, did he shout, did he talk/engage with the children immediately inside the room?

Why isn't anyone in officialdom asking questions ....

Any honourable well respected seasoned detective would cross examine the key players over and over again, tie them in knots until the cracks start to appear - and then work on wards until a full picture starts to form. Something further to work on - they never give-up until a case is satisfactorily resolved and the perpetrator brought to justice.

What went wrong?

by Arnold 03.08.22 7:28

What went wrong?

Maybe an unsustainable paradoxical situation created by self deception ?

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by Verdi 03.08.22 13:02

I don't think many doubt the existence of corruption and misguided ethics in the world of policing, even those within the service will admit.

What we are trying to do here on CMOMM is to determine why this particular case has received so much support and attention by the British establishment and why the British police are so determined to see the truth buried.

In short .... why the cover-up of such a serious case as that of a missing three year old child.

Looking at every angle, as we've been doing here for many years, this isolated case appears to be a joint conspiracy to hide the truth.

Personally, I believe the British police - possibly extending outside the UK, are working under orders.

The question is, whose orders. We are still searching for that elusive butterfly ....

by **Tony Bennett** 03.08.22 17:36

Arnold wrote:What went wrong?

Maybe an unsustainable paradoxical situation created by self deception ?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Or to look at this from a slightly different angle...

...how hard is it to admit that you've made a very serious, fatal mistake in your investigation which has allowed the perpetrators of Madeleine's death to get away with their crime scot free?

by **sharonl** 03.08.22 23:10

Bob on Twitter had this to say:-

Gerry is the first one who remembers the Payne visit in his May 10 statement. Not Kate or Payne who were supposed to be there, but Gerry who wasn't.

That was something else that was missing on May 4, which means it must have been missing on May 3 as well.

by crusader 03.08.22 23:46

In his rogatory statement D Payne couldn't remember whether he called in on Kate on his way to his apartment or on the way back to play tennis.

He settled on saying it was more likely on the way to his apartment, because he went to the patio doors, if he had gone to his apartment first, he said he would have knocked on the front door on his way back to play tennis.

If it was true he went to see if Kate needed help getting to the play area with the children, it would make more sense to call on his way back.

by **sharonl** 04.08.22 0:25

Wasn't Kate running at 5pm that night? After that, what time did the alleged high tea go on until?

Were we not led to believe, at some point, that Kate was running at 5pm before heading for high tea that went on until 6.30? If that was the case, then Gerry was not playing tennis and neither Gerry, Kate or David were at the apartment between 5 and 6.30pm

by crusader 04.08.22 7:52

D Payne was at the Paraiso restaurant at the beach until just before 6pm, Gerry was playing tennis at 5pm and Kate went Jogging until 5-30.

Both Gerry and Kate took the children back to the apartment about 5-40.

It was after 6pm when the "visit" happened.

by **PeterMac** 04.08.22 8:04

sharonl wrote: Wasn't Kate running at 5pm that night? After that, what time did the alleged high tea go on until?

Were we not led to believe, at some point, that Kate was running at 5pm before heading for high tea that went on until 6.30? If that was the case, then Gerry was not playing tennis and neither Gerry, Kate or David were at the apartment between 5 and 6.30pm

Too late to try to make any sense of it now, I fear.

Kate was running until she arrived at High Tea and found them all together,
or went to the creche and signed the sheet,
or signed the sheet at the High tea, (making it impossible for other parents to sign theirs out of the creche)

THEN they had high tea. Just the one family. ALL the others were at the Paraiso, safely out of the way, and Kate had run past to check
THEN she carries the exhausted Madeline back to the Apartment
Then the have showers, and change into pjs and Kate has a shower. Before having a bath
DP is beamed over from the Paraiso to play tennis at the same time
Gerry is playing tennis at the same time as having High Tea,
and it is still 5.30. "said Humpty Dumpty."

Time is purely relative , (Einstein)

(But it may be worth another look and a new Chapter. )

by Silentscope 04.08.22 8:51

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Gerry is the first one who remembers the Payne visit in his May 10 statement. Not Kate or Payne who were supposed to be there, but Gerry who wasn't.

Sounds like Gerry invented the whole thing maybe?

Then briefed the others who got the duration 30 mins / 30 secs mixed up, amongst other points…

Just another attempt to ‘prove’ Madeleine was still around.

by Arnold 04.08.22 8:52

Tony Bennett wrote:
Arnold wrote:What went wrong?

Maybe an unsustainable paradoxical situation created by self deception ?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Or to look at this from a slightly different angle...

...how hard is it to admit that you've made a very serious, fatal mistake in your investigation which has allowed the perpetrators of Madeleine's death to get away with their crime scot free?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

en.[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Sir Mark Rowley oversaw the review in Madeleine’s case and is now appointed to police commissioner of the Met. He also was involved with Collin Sutton, in the Milly Dowler case. He also oversaw this investigation.
All related to phone hacking, protection of victims and witnesses, News of the world, the rejection of Justice secretary Kenneth Clarke related to privacy of the perpetrator.

Could this be a link to what you wrote about the perpetrators being victim players to get away with their crime ?

If you admit you made crucial fatal mistake in the investigation, .just like the perpetrators who made fatal medical mistakes to save her life.

it seems every one involved sealed their lips to secure theur own career.

by Arnold 04.08.22 9:27

There was also direct contact with the Director of Public Prosecutions in this Milly Dowler case.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], who oversaw the investigation, joined the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] in calling for changes and for greater protection of victims and witnesses during court cases.^{[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]} Rowley said it was a "most bizarre and distressing coincidence" that the Dowler family had their privacy "destroyed", at a time when footballers and celebrities were being granted [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] to protect details of their personal lives.^{[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]}

by Verdi 04.08.22 16:53

Kate McCann witness statement 4th May 2007

Thursday May 3rd 2007

Yesterday, after the daily routine, Madeleine and the twins went to bed at around 7.30. They were in their respective beds. The interviewee and her husband stayed in their apartment to relax until 8.30pm. She took a bath, did her make-up and drank a glass of New Zealand wine with her husband.

by **PeterMac** 04.08.22 18:10

We have several sources to find and look at side by side

Kate Statement 1 (and 2)
Gerry Statement 1 and 2
D Payne Statement
D Payne Rogatory
F Payne Statement
F Payne
Rogatory
Book
Creche Sheets (Lobsters and the other one)
Nannies' statements
Tapas waiters, cooks, food handlers, prep and clearing staff
MW Brochure and briefing notes re children
Photo albums of a joyous time in the children's day with them all together as a family of FIVE [only joking !]

I'm just going in. I may be some time. (after Lawrence Oates, Cpt. 6th Iniskilling Dragoons, recommended for VC, Mentioned in Dispatches, 1880 - 1912)

by **sharonl** 04.08.22 20:40

So they were not planning to go to the recreation centre as claimed then?

Fiona Payne 4th May 2007

Yesterday they slightly altered their routine, they went to the beach with the children and her mother Dianne. They arrived there around 15H45 and left at 18H15, and headed towards the tennis court until about 19H00. Immediately afterwards, the witness headed towards the apartment with her children, and her mother. Ten minutes later her husband David appeared. In the apartment her mother, helped by her husband David, bathed the children whilst the witness went jogging on the beach until around 20H00. Afterwards, she returned to the apartment and got ready. She left around 20H45, accompanied by David and her mother, in order to meet the rest of the group in the Tapas restaurant.

by Ashley1999 12.06.24 11:23

plebgate wrote:With so many contradictions, I do not believe the visit took place.

Put it this way, imo if these two had been at a business meeting and notes were being taken and the note taker came up with so many contradictions, they would immediately be sacked, wouldn't they?

Agreed

by crusader 12.06.24 12:03

Gerry and Kate both bathed the children before Gerry going out to play tennis.
It makes no sense whatsoever for Gerry to think Kate would want help to then take the children out to a dirty play area.
It's questionable whether the Payne incident happened.

by AnneCGuedes 12.06.24 14:54

Imo the Payne's surrealistic visit was the maximum Payne could tell (he refused the check on Wednesday !), as the ridiculous check (without making sure M was there, sleeping) was Matt's maximum. There is evidence in the respective narratives that neither of these ever existed.

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