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When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

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When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by Tony Bennett on 02.06.17 22:51

This thread gives members an opportunity to vote in a poll identical to one being run on Twitter for the next 24 hours ( by 'McCannScamExposed' @McCannScamExpos )

The poll question and options were as simple as possible:

When was Madeleine gone?

On May 3rd?

OR

Before May 3rd?

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 Daily Mail journalist Daniel Bates wrote: “Kate and Gerry McCann have released a new picture of their daughter Madeleine as they prepare to commemorate tomorrow’s third anniversary of her disappearance. The photo shows her when she was three after a raid on the dressing-up box. She has a pink bow in her hair and a gold bead necklace and is wearing blue eyeshadow. It was taken weeks before the fateful family holiday to the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz when Madeleine vanished”

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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by Tony Bennett on 04.06.17 7:35

Thank you to the 30 who have so far voted in our poll.

The 24-hour poll on the #McCann hashtag, started by @McCannScamExposed on Twitter, has now ended, with the following results:

49 people voted

38 people (78%) voted 'Gone before 3 May'

while

Only 11 voted 'Gone on 3 May'.

Two things emerge from this poll:

1. The majority clearly think that Amaral's suggested time of Madeleine's demise is wrong and needs to be revised*

2. The majority view on the #McCann hashtag is very much in line with the majority view on the issue on CMOMM.   


*  NOTE: I emphasise one more time that this is NOT IN ANY WAY to criticise Goncalp Amaral but merely to point out, once again, that in the 9 years and 8 months since he was booted off the case at the behest of the British government, shedloads of new evidence has emerged and been analysed which has led many to suggest that something very serious happened to Madeleine earlier in the week.


Whatever your views on the poll question, please take a few seconds to vote in the poll - thanks

____________________

 Daily Mail journalist Daniel Bates wrote: “Kate and Gerry McCann have released a new picture of their daughter Madeleine as they prepare to commemorate tomorrow’s third anniversary of her disappearance. The photo shows her when she was three after a raid on the dressing-up box. She has a pink bow in her hair and a gold bead necklace and is wearing blue eyeshadow. It was taken weeks before the fateful family holiday to the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz when Madeleine vanished”

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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by Tony Bennett on 04.06.17 13:00

A poster in another place has reacted to the claims that Amaral's conclusions about when Madeleine died need to be updated in the light of new evidence.

Here is the post, QUOTE:

It is said over and over that new evidence has emerged?? What new evidence would that be then.... the files are exactly the same then as now, and Goncalo Amaral was part of all that, knew everything in the files, saw all the witness statements… so where is the NEW evidence.? Plus he still says the same now anyway.
It is actually the other way around, the evidence that Madeleine was alive and seen by witnesses is being totally rejected and ignored and the case against Smithman is based on everyone lying. Eyes If someone could show me proof the Smith family are all lying I would be grateful, plus a really believable reason for it.


And here is my response:

It is said over and over that new evidence has emerged?? What new evidence would that be then...the files are exactly the same then as now, and Goncalo Amaral was part of all that, knew everything in the files, saw all the witness statements… so where is the NEW evidence?

REPLY: Either the poster went to sleep nine years ago OR she has not read or properly considered the evidence...

* In the OPs of the Smithman threads here, SMITHMAN1 to SMITHMAN10, nor

* HideHo's post 'No credible evidence', nor

* PeterMac's 23 chapters of his e-book, nor

* Any of Richard Hall's films       

Plus he still says the same now anyway.

REPLY: That's because, for whatever reason, Amaral has (so far) chosen not to publicly comment on all the new evidence    

It is actually the other way around, the evidence that Madeleine was alive and seen by witnesses is being totally rejected and ignored...

REPLY: HideHo's long post 'No credible evidence' has fully dealt with that. After lunchtime Sunday 29 April, she showed that there was NOT ONE credible, independent sighting of Madeleine

and the case against Smithman is based on everyone lying. 

REPLY: As that poster well knows, that it a complete misrepresentation. The clearly fabricated evidence e.g. of Nuno Lourenco and maybe a number of others is only a part of the case made out in...

* In the OPs of the Smithman threads here, SMITHMAN1 to SMITHMAN10, and

* HideHo's post 'No credible evidence', and

* PeterMac's 23 chapters of his e-book, and

* All of Richard Hall's Madeleine films. 

If someone could show me proof the Smith family are all lying I would be grateful,

REPLY: We are discussing evidence, not 'proof'.  

...plus a really believable reason for it.

REPLY: Why do people lie in criminal cases? Sometimes for money see e.g. the media reports last week of Michael Barrymore paying  off two witnesses in the Stuart Lubbock case. Sometimes out of fear, because threats have been made; we already have evidence published by the media that Brian Kennedy's men, on behalf of the McCanns, intimidated some key witnesses into silence. Blackmail is another reason. IF they lied, we just don't know the reason.

____________________

 Daily Mail journalist Daniel Bates wrote: “Kate and Gerry McCann have released a new picture of their daughter Madeleine as they prepare to commemorate tomorrow’s third anniversary of her disappearance. The photo shows her when she was three after a raid on the dressing-up box. She has a pink bow in her hair and a gold bead necklace and is wearing blue eyeshadow. It was taken weeks before the fateful family holiday to the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz when Madeleine vanished”

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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by sharonl on 04.06.17 20:35

With the British Government putting pressure on the investigation, the McCanns running a private investigation along the official one, false evidence being created and witnesses being planted, the investigation being diverted to Morocco, not to mention the pressure media circus controlled by the McCanns spokesman, I think that Goncalo Amaral did exceptionally well to get to bottom of this case. I think that he can be forgiven for falling for the testimonies of a few false and obviously planted witnesses and getting the date wrong.  How was he to know the extent of the cover-up in the short time that he was on the case.  He did brilliantly and I am sure that he would have worked out the rest had he been given a little more time and a chance to investigate the case properly without the interference of the UK Government and the McCanns dodgy cops.

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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by Verdi on 04.06.17 21:49

The Truth of the Lie - Goncalo Amaral  Chapter 1

THE PRUDENCE OF A DECISION

In Portimão, I meet chief inspector Tavares de Almeida, a member of the team I directed. We have known each other since we started in the police judiciaire. He is worried because of the national director’s statements; he heard that our work was going to be the object of an investigation. A request in that direction has allegedly already been placed before the national directorate of the police judiciaire. According to him, that would allow the truth to be re-established and would lead to recognition of the quality of our work.

During the five months that the investigations lasted, we had heard all sorts of comments, but we had got on with our job. We remind ourselves of everything that was accomplished, with a great deal of effort, rigour and honesty, and we are certain that nobody could have done better. That might seem presumptuous, but it’s just fair recognition of the conscientious attitude of all the police professionals who worked on the case.

– They can’t count! How can they accuse us of being precipitous when the couple were only declared suspects four months after the events! Don’t they know the principle of non-self-incrimination?

It is legally impossible to continue to take statements from someone as a witness if these statements risk later turning against him. While a witness is making a statement about an ongoing case and at a given moment it is realised that he could himself be involved in an illegal act, he is constituted arguido. Thus, from then on, he has rights and duties. Contrary to what one reads in the press – above all the English -, the arguido is protected and acquires the right to silence which no one can reproach him for – which would not be the case if he were being heard as a witness.

– I agree with you. If a mistake was made, it was in taking so long to make the couple arguidos. Too much politics, that’s what there was, too much politics and not enough policing.

– I’d say rather that the mistake was in treating the McCanns “with tweezers.” From the start of the investigation, we realised that certain things did not add up and yet, they continued to benefit from favourable treatment; that’s what’s not normal!
– Does the national director perhaps think that the couple only left Portugal because they had been placed under investigation?

– In fact, the McCanns stayed in Portugal as long as we stuck to the theory of abduction; from the moment that was placed in doubt, they talked about returning to England.

– From which can be concluded that their being placed under investigation gave them an excuse to leave the country…

– You know, certain English journalists consider Portugal to be a third world country. Of course, I don’t agree with that definition. And yet, if it’s not a third world country, why is the head of an ongoing investigation dismissed when the quality of his work is not in doubt….

– There is a lot of talk about the “politicising,” of the law….they forget the extent to which a police investigation can be influenced.

– It’s a matter of either: either the investigation is entrusted to trustworthy people, or, if things go wrong those responsible are replaced with more “reliable,” people.

– I don’t believe that was the main reason.

– There are always reasonable and perfectly legal arguments. In fact, those who should stand in the way of this almost political management of the investigation are the most senior police managers. They should object to any situation or action that risks bringing prejudice to the investigation and to its correct operation. They can’t agree to everything under the pretext of being afraid of losing their jobs.

– No, you are aware that you don’t direct the police according to personal interests but properly according to public interests. It is only thus that we can conceive of a police force in a democratic state.

– OK, but look where we are! You will see, soon the arguidos will be choosing who leads the investigation. Maybe that’s the modern way..

– The modern way….Rather self-interests, you mean! Deplorable!
----------

AMEN!

Take note Mrs Prime Minister - there is no room in policing for politics.

ETA:  Apologies - ever so slightly offtopic

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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by Tony Bennett on 04.06.17 23:07

@Tony Bennett wrote:A poster in another place has reacted to the claims that Amaral's conclusions about when Madeleine died need to be updated in the light of new evidence.

Here is the post, QUOTE:

It is said over and over that new evidence has emerged?? What new evidence would that be then.... the files are exactly the same then as now, and Goncalo Amaral was part of all that, knew everything in the files, saw all the witness statements… so where is the NEW evidence.? Plus he still says the same now anyway.
It is actually the other way around, the evidence that Madeleine was alive and seen by witnesses is being totally rejected and ignored and the case against Smithman is based on everyone lying. Eyes If someone could show me proof the Smith family are all lying I would be grateful, plus a really believable reason for it.


And here is my response:

It is said over and over that new evidence has emerged?? What new evidence would that be then...the files are exactly the same then as now, and Goncalo Amaral was part of all that, knew everything in the files, saw all the witness statements… so where is the NEW evidence?

REPLY: Either the poster went to sleep nine years ago OR she has not read or properly considered the evidence...

* In the OPs of the Smithman threads here, SMITHMAN1 to SMITHMAN10, nor

* HideHo's post 'No credible evidence', nor

* PeterMac's 23 chapters of his e-book, nor

* Any of Richard Hall's films       

Plus he still says the same now anyway.

REPLY: That's because, for whatever reason, Amaral has (so far) chosen not to publicly comment on all the new evidence    

It is actually the other way around, the evidence that Madeleine was alive and seen by witnesses is being totally rejected and ignored...

REPLY: HideHo's long post 'No credible evidence' has fully dealt with that. After lunchtime Sunday 29 April, she showed that there was NOT ONE credible, independent sighting of Madeleine

and the case against Smithman is based on everyone lying. 

REPLY: As that poster well knows, that it a complete misrepresentation. The clearly fabricated evidence e.g. of Nuno Lourenco and maybe a number of others is only a part of the case made out in...

* In the OPs of the Smithman threads here, SMITHMAN1 to SMITHMAN10, and

* HideHo's post 'No credible evidence', and

* PeterMac's 23 chapters of his e-book, and

* All of Richard Hall's Madeleine films. 

If someone could show me proof the Smith family are all lying I would be grateful,

REPLY: We are discussing evidence, not 'proof'.  

...plus a really believable reason for it.

REPLY: Why do people lie in criminal cases? Sometimes for money see e.g. the media reports last week of Michael Barrymore paying  off two witnesses in the Stuart Lubbock case. Sometimes out of fear, because threats have been made; we already have evidence published by the media that Brian Kennedy's men, on behalf of the McCanns, intimidated some key witnesses into silence. Blackmail is another reason. IF they lied, we just don't know the reason.

The poster from another place has made a polite but robust response.

In summary she has said two things, quote:

1 "There is no 'evidence' as you call it, it is mainly supposition and guesswork, theory and opinion.  No solid fact at all".

2 (On the remarkable 17 similarities between the descriptions of: (A) Wojchiech Krokowski by Nuno Lourenco (B) 'Tanmerman' by Jane Tanner (C) 'Smithman' by the Smiths (and of course (D) 'Crecheman' by DCI Redwood):        
"Because people give similar descriptions means nothing".

____________________

 Daily Mail journalist Daniel Bates wrote: “Kate and Gerry McCann have released a new picture of their daughter Madeleine as they prepare to commemorate tomorrow’s third anniversary of her disappearance. The photo shows her when she was three after a raid on the dressing-up box. She has a pink bow in her hair and a gold bead necklace and is wearing blue eyeshadow. It was taken weeks before the fateful family holiday to the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz when Madeleine vanished”

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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by Verdi on 05.06.17 1:06

There is no concrete evidence to support one single element of the McCanns and their friends version of events, apart from CCTV footage of the beach restaurant - the McCanns were absent!

The PJ were encouraged to investigate abduction, they feasibly thought initially that Madeleine wandered off on her own but that notion was swiftly negated by the abduction squad.

Looking again at Kate McCann's version of the truth, as detailed in her autobiographical novel, their movements throughout the week are vague and more to the point, have not been verified by one single independent witness.

Starting Sunday 29th April 2007, the groups story-line is confusing and unbelievable - without a single element of verifiable back-up.  After ten years not one witness has come forward to reaffirm the McCann groups version of events.

In short, it's their word only!

The McCanns say every day Kate McCann left with the three children via the patio door, leaving Gerry McCann inside to lock the patio door and exit through the front door.  The front door was on ground level, the patio door led to a stone stairway with security gate.  Why the decision for Kate McCann to negotiate the stone stairway with security gate with three young children and paraphernalia, leaving him to leave by the ground floor front door empty handed - it makes no sense.
This doesn't accord with the witness statement of Maria Julia Serafim da Silva, taken on 7th May 2007. I quote..

"
She remembers that when she entered Apartment A on the Wednesday, the parents were inside. After being duly authorized, she entered and carried out her work, because they were already on their way out. While she was in the apartment, there were no children there, and she supposed that they were in the creche"


Where were Madeleine and the twins on that particular occasion?

They must have afterwards met up somewhere outside because mention is made of them both dropping the kids off at the creche.  Why this extraordinary sequence of events?  Later a short-cut is discovered between apartment 5a and Madeleine's daycare establishment above the main reception.  They were on holiday with all the time in the world, why would they use a short-cut - because they couldn't be seen as a family of five?

Why no photographs of Madeleine McCann from the holiday other than the poolside and the playground - this is not normal.

Why no evidence of children shown in the PJ's photographs of apartment 5a taken on 3rd/4th May 2007?

Why no evidence of children in the bedroom said to have been occupied by Madeleine and the twins?

Where was the children's clothes, story books, toys or whatever else taken along for their amusement?

Where is the evidence that Madeleine McCann was alive and well between Sunday 29th April and Thursday 3rd May?

I have been told many times that Madeleine was seen by a number of independent witnesses right up until the evening of 3rd May - every time I've asked for verification of who when and where - not once have I had an answer.

I'm still waiting waiting .

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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by polyenne on 05.06.17 12:54

In any similar investigation the police would be suspicious of :

1.   the distinct lack of holiday photos either from the McCanns or their Tapas "friends"

2.   the convenient obfuscation of real facts given in the complete disarray of their statements

3.   the deletion of texts and logs from their phones

4.   the change of plans as regards meal times

Incidentally, rather than GM signing another child or two children into the crèche, could RGN have been doing the signing and, in fact, GM never went to the crèche. Is that possible/feasible ? After all, when they were being signed in, the man was with a woman who, by all accounts, was AN.
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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by Yorkshirgel on 12.06.17 13:07

For those who doubt that the Portuguese police did a good job.  Look for the pages that were missed out of the PJ files and see what they were discussing.  A lot of them on the list seem to be about child abuse ie paedophilia;  They went in to great detail and decided that it was NOT obvious to them that there was a connection.   In these missing pages alone there is a whole list of what was actually covered and the list is endless.  So what do you think the alternative is?  Accident?  Child abuse of another kind?  Murder?  What?   This is what the Portuguese police were up against.  I believe there was a cover-up of some kind, but not sure what was so serious it resulted in a British Ambassador on the next flight out.  Please note:  These lists do not go in to detail, they are just lists and nothing more.
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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by polyenne on 12.06.17 13:11

@Yorkshirgel wrote:For those who doubt that the Portuguese police did a good job.  Look for the pages that were missed out of the PJ files and see what they were discussing.  A lot of them on the list seem to be about child abuse ie paedophilia;  They went in to great detail and decided that it was NOT obvious to them that there was a connection.   In these missing pages alone there is a whole list of what was actually covered and the list is endless.  So what do you think the alternative is?  Accident?  Child abuse of another kind?  Murder?  What?   This is what the Portuguese police were up against.  I believe there was a cover-up of some kind, but not sure what was so serious it resulted in a British Ambassador on the next flight out.  Please note:  These lists do not go in to detail, they are just lists and nothing more.


Yorkshirgel - can you please link to those lists/pages please ?
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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by Yorkshirgel on 12.06.17 13:38

The list is on the side of the Jill Havern website.  But I will give one anyway if I can.

Please tell me how to upload a photograph.
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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by Verdi on 12.06.17 13:53

@polyenne wrote:
@Yorkshirgel wrote:For those who doubt that the Portuguese police did a good job.  Look for the pages that were missed out of the PJ files and see what they were discussing.  A lot of them on the list seem to be about child abuse ie paedophilia;  They went in to great detail and decided that it was NOT obvious to them that there was a connection.   In these missing pages alone there is a whole list of what was actually covered and the list is endless.  So what do you think the alternative is?  Accident?  Child abuse of another kind?  Murder?  What?   This is what the Portuguese police were up against.  I believe there was a cover-up of some kind, but not sure what was so serious it resulted in a British Ambassador on the next flight out.  Please note:  These lists do not go in to detail, they are just lists and nothing more.


Yorkshirgel - can you please link to those lists/pages please ?
Allow me..

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MISSING_PAGES.htm

If you break it down, it amounts to standard policing - a three year old child is missing with cries of abduction by paedophile.  Stands to reason the police would investigate every possibility, without exception.  It's customary practice to withhold the identity of sex-offenders (for obvious reasons) and others who do not wish to be named.

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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by Yorkshirgel on 12.06.17 14:52

Thank you!  I know it is routine but I was standing up for the police in Portugal who did a brilliant job imo. Some are complaining they did not do enough.  They worked very hard to find M imo.  The British police were told ONLY to investigate an abduction and NOTHING ELSE!  Which surely is unusual?

No idea how to upload photographs or I could have supplied a link.
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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by HiDeHo on 12.06.17 16:48

FYI The 'Missing Pages' were only confirmed pages that were referred to elsewhere in the files.

The list does not include possible interviews/statements/unofficial statements with others. eg Mann, Sperry and Irwin etc  who were at the tapas on Thursday night and would likely have important information.

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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by Yorkshirgel on 13.06.17 9:21

I think a lot of the missing pages were taken out because they needed to preserve privacy for other people who were not involved.  Never seen the page above though.  Amaral says he has evidence of a lot of things that have not been in the public eye before.  Is he still writing his second book?  Was there ever a second book?  I have seen conflicting reports.
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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 13.06.17 9:31

@Yorkshirgel wrote:I think a lot of the missing pages were taken out because they needed to preserve privacy for other people who were not involved.  Never seen the page above though.  Amaral says he has evidence of a lot of things that have not been in the public eye before.  Is he still writing his second book?  Was there ever a second book?  I have seen conflicting reports.
Yes, there is a new book (actually his third - don't forget 'The English Gag'). It's finished. Last I heard is that he's looking for someone to publish in English.

https://joana-morais.blogspot.co.uk/2009/12/goncalo-amaral-this-is-book-of-protest.html
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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by Phoebe on 13.06.17 11:41

@HiDeHo wrote:FYI The 'Missing Pages' were only confirmed pages that were referred to elsewhere in the files.

The list does not include possible interviews/statements/unofficial statements with others. eg Mann, Sperry and Irwin etc  who were at the tapas on Thursday night and would likely have important information.

Didn't Gerry state in an interview that after 9pm the McCanns and friends were the only diners? Odd that! The Sperreys were booked for 9pm but according to him must not have shown up. The Irwins would have had to have bolted their food if they booked for 8.30 and were gone by 9pm. I've never seen statements from either the Sperreys or Irwins, does that mean they weren't there?
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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by HiDeHo on 13.06.17 13:25

@Phoebe wrote:
@HiDeHo wrote:FYI The 'Missing Pages' were only confirmed pages that were referred to elsewhere in the files.

The list does not include possible interviews/statements/unofficial statements with others. eg Mann, Sperry and Irwin etc  who were at the tapas on Thursday night and would likely have important information.

Didn't Gerry state in an interview that after 9pm the McCanns and friends were the only diners? Odd that! The Sperreys were booked for 9pm but according to him must not have shown up. The Irwins would have had to have bolted their food if they booked for 8.30 and were gone by 9pm. I've never seen statements from either the Sperreys or Irwins, does that mean they weren't there?





-----
They were all ticked off on the list as being there and Gerry tells us about talking to Stephen Carpenter who left with his wife around 9.15.  From memory, they both gave statements but only Stephen Carpenters rogatory interview is available.


We have never seen much info about the Irwins who were booked in at the same time as the group.  Naomi and her sister.  

They appear to be of interest to the police as to whether they sat at the table with the T9.  The police asked all/most of them and they all denied they were at the table.

The likelihood is that they were interviewed, but whether by PJ or when they arrived back in UK we don't know.

The police visited and interviewed more than 400 homes in the area during the following days. I see no reason to consider the guests at the tapas were not interviewed.
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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by HiDeHo on 13.06.17 14:20

A little more on topic...

Goncalo Amaral has done several Interviews alongside Hernani Carvalho.

A comment made by him leaves me wondering what the basis for his claim is.





https://joana-morais.blogspot.ca/2008/11/tvmais-at-what-time-did-maddie-leave.html



by Hernâni Carvalho

“The disappearance took place during the time period between 5.35 and 10.05 p.m. on the 3rd of May 2007”, reads the report from the 4th Brigade of the PJ in Portimão. A premiss that is now questioned. 

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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by Yorkshirgel on 13.06.17 15:21

Was this the model for 'The Fund', there are many similarities, and is this the 'Charity' that employed Kate as their 'Ambassador'?  Mug more like:

http://pactofsilence.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/pact.html


Members are respectfully asked to keep on topic.  Thank you.

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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by Yorkshirgel on 13.06.17 15:34

I do not think it is a fair question to ask 'When was Madeleine gone?'.  It should be 'When do you think Madeleine disappeared?'  I would say imo she disappeared long before the alarm was sounded.  Plenty of time to write a time-line, a plan of action for the fairy story, dispose of whatever, sort out what the creche records said, decide what kind of deal you would admit to and why, who would say what.   I would think that she was not around after the first day.  I believe that a play was created and the actors given their roles.  Why they just did not admit there was an accident is another story. Another would be an explanation as to how the 'Fund' was set up so quickly and not registered as a Charity, but as a support for family members for whatever they needed money for.  To say 'every penny would be spent on finding M' was clearly fraud because it never was used for the purpose they told people it was for.  Money seemed to be spent on everything else but.
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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by Verdi on 13.06.17 23:57

@Yorkshirgel wrote:I do not think it is a fair question to ask 'When was Madeleine gone?'.  It should be 'When do you think Madeleine disappeared?'

Sorry the thread title doesn't meet with your approval but doesn't it amount to the same thing?  

I would say imo she disappeared long before the alarm was sounded.  Plenty of time to write a time-line, a plan of action for the fairy story, dispose of whatever, sort out what the creche records said, decide what kind of deal you would admit to and why, who would say what.   I would think that she was not around after the first day.  I believe that a play was created and the actors given their roles.

Then you reiterate and agree with the basics of what has been discussed extensively on CMoMM over a long period of time thumbsup .

Why they just did not admit there was an accident is another story.

It is indeed.

Another would be an explanation as to how the 'Fund' was set up so quickly and not registered as a Charity, but as a support for family members for whatever they needed money for.

The Fund was not established as a charity because it's proposed operation didn't meet with the legislative criteria for a charity - they opted for a Limited Company which gave greater power and flexibility over the Funds management.

To say 'every penny would be spent on finding M' was clearly fraud because it never was used for the purpose they told people it was for.  Money seemed to be spent on everything else but.

That wasn't said.  This is the original text of the Funds remit when first established in May 2007..





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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by Phoebe on 14.06.17 13:00

For me, the crux of the question is who was involved in the cover-up of what happened and when that involvement began. I'm inclined to think that Madeleine had died shortly before that Thurs. night but I have a problem believing that top-level help was involved before her disappearance was announced. For example, why would the McCanns have to resort to using their own hire-car to move her body nearly a month later? If they were on the receiving end of high level support and advice then surely this aspect would have been taken care of by others. This would not preclude the McCanns being present if they wished, but would ensure that any evidence could not later link them to this removal. I cannot believe that high-level government/diplomatic support would be so slap-dash and amateur. Their stories of jemmied shutters and open windows fell apart instantly, also suggesting a hurried, amateur attempt to simulate a crime. Had this been an agreed strategy, stage-managed with outside help, those blinds would have shown signs of being interfered with and the window and curtains would have been arranged to bear this out to first responding police. The scene was so amateurly staged that I believe the McCanns and friends acted alone and in panic.That leads me to think Madeleine was discovered "gone" on the Thursday morning but much before.
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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by polyenne on 14.06.17 13:53

Phoebe, IMO I believe that Madeleine (and possibly others) were at MW PdL for a reason and that a "risk" was involved with whatever the nature of that "holiday". And assets were in place just in case that risk became unmanageable. It did. 

What I suggest must be remembered is that the high level support was sent there to protect person or persons unknown, it wasn't there to protect the McCanns. I believe that Murat was an asset and treated like a patsy and so what chance "ordinary" people like the McCanns. Their "benefit in kind" was The Fund

All in my opinion, M'Lud
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Re: When was Madeleine gone? - NEW POLL...On 3rd May, or before 3rd May?

Post by Yorkshirgel on 14.06.17 15:53

Gone and disappeared are not the same thing at all.  Gone means  taken away, disappeared means she could have been nearby hidden somewhere.

The Fund was set up to give aid to those who needed it, especially family members.  The promise to spend 'every penny' on finding Madeleine was broken as we all now know.  It was not a written promise but it was a spoken promise.
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