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Dr David Payne, Woodland Hospital, Kettering, didn't want to tell the Police what he knew about Madeleine McCann's death and still hasn't to this day Mm11

Dr David Payne, Woodland Hospital, Kettering, didn't want to tell the Police what he knew about Madeleine McCann's death and still hasn't to this day Regist10

Dr David Payne, Woodland Hospital, Kettering, didn't want to tell the Police what he knew about Madeleine McCann's death and still hasn't to this day

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Post by Jill Havern on 15.12.18 7:42

Dr David Payne, Woodland Hospital, Kettering, didn't want to tell the Police what he knew about Madeleine McCann's death and still hasn't to this day David_10

by jeanmonroe
Interviewing UK Police Officer DC 1485 IVOR MESSIAH questioning Gerry McCann's 'best buddy' Dr David Payne. (Friday the eleventh of April two thousand and eight)

DC 1485: "Is there anything that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth?'' (about a three year old child's 'disappearance')

D Payne 'reply': "Err the, there are a few things but I don't think this is the right forum for bringing those up.'

What are the 'few things' that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth, (about a child's 'disappearance') you want to keep 'SECRET' and not tell DC Messiah, Dave?

------------------
by Mirage

Can you imagine telling a police officer investigating a child's disappearance that you know a few relevant and pertinent things that you don't want to talk about now?

Can you imagine a police officer accepting that as an answer and letting you walk out of the station?

Can you imagine a police inquiry into a child's disappearance allowing witnesses to refresh their memories by reading their original statements or that of a spouse?

Can you imagine police officers, given a set of rogatory questions by the lead investigators in Portugal, allowing witnesses to be asked a question posed by two people who are suspects in the Portuguese investigation?

Can you imagine that almost nine years after making that statement, there is no evidence to suggest Dr Payne ever did enter a forum (of his choosing, or anyone else's) to divulge those pertinent and relevant details, not even after DCI Redwood revealed that the child may not have left the apartment alive?

Can anyone explain why that same witness, present in the vital hours and minutes before that child went missing, should have been, along with his wife, removed from a Crimewatch reconstruction that appealed to millions here and in certain other countries - but not Portugal, where the crime took place?


CMOMM: https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t13732-madeleine-mccann-cops-hunt-worker-at-resort-as-they-fear-he-kept-secrets-from-local-police


 Dr David Payne, at work, suspected of paedophilia by Dr Katarina Gaspar http://thegaspersstatement.blogspot.co.uk/
Dr David Payne, Woodland Hospital, Kettering, didn't want to tell the Police what he knew about Madeleine McCann's death and still hasn't to this day Wasdr_10

Related links:
http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/is-dr-david-payne-formerly-of-leicester.html

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t11737p10-have-i-just-met-david-payne
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Post by PeterMac on 15.12.18 7:59

And it is not just Dr Payne.

Let us refresh our memories


4078    “You also, when we spoke earlier, expressed a sense of frustration about the fact that you’d all been banned by the Super (inaudible).
Dianne Webster:    “That’s right, yes.
 
4078    “And you’d been very restrained in what you said.”
Dianne Webster:    “Yeah, yeah.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm


What a fascinating exchange that is.
Dianne Webster admits that she has been ‘restrained’ in what she said during an interview designed to trace a 
missing 3 year old, whose life may be at risk
In other words she has not told everything she knows.  And more – nor have they ALL !


Read it again – “. . you’d all been banned . .”


Mrs Webster may, or may not, have held vital information, and may or may not have told the Truth, but felt a sense of ‘frustration’ about being ‘restrained’ from telling the Whole Truth
And clearly the rest of the Tapas 7 similarly had all been banned and we may suppose had all been very restrained in what they said.


I wonder how the McCanns felt, and now feel about this ?
I wonder how Madeleine will feel about it when she finds out that the people at the heart of the enquiry did not tell the Whole Truth in an attempt to free her from the Hellish Lair in the Lawless Hinterlands, in which she has now allegedly spent the past 11 years suffering unspeakable treatment at the hands of her ‘Abductor’ ? 

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Post by Verdi on 15.12.18 12:13

By all intents and purposes, the rogatory interviews were a bit of a farce - they certainly didn't assist the Portuguese in any way shape or form.

As I understand it, the McCanns wanted some of their friends and associates re-interviewed, as character witnesses it would appear.  The PJ took the opportunity to cash-in on the rogatories by presenting a list of questions they wanted answered - a sort of double entente.  Whatever, the whole affair turned into a farce - indeed it's only productive element was to further confuse an already ambiguous criminal investigation.

David Payne wrote:
“This is our matter only. We have a pact of silence. All comments must go through Gerry McCann”.

This quote ^^^ allegedly reported by Sol cannot be positively verified but nonetheless it makes you wonder.

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Post by PeterMac on 15.12.18 12:56

I have been looking for the reference to that remark, or the parallel one I thought we had heard one of the Tapas7 make to a journalist in PdL, but have been unable to find it.   Didn't Mitchell say something along those lines, about everything being channelled through him ?

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Post by Verdi on 15.12.18 15:08

I too will have another poke around ^^^.  It was debunked by the 'debunking the miffs site', for that reason alone there could well be some truth behind the quote.

"The difficult is what takes a little time; the impossible is what takes a little longer."

David Payne didn't say that ^^^ - oh, I dont know though!

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Post by Doug D on 15.12.18 16:01

Joana Morais blog from 2009 with clip from ‘Sol’:
 
https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/11/mccanns-no-pact-of-silence.html
 
 Dr David Payne, Woodland Hospital, Kettering, didn't want to tell the Police what he knew about Madeleine McCann's death and still hasn't to this day Pact10
 
and The Telegraph 29thOctober 2007 with the CM statement:
 
…….But the seven friends - Russell O’Brien and his partner Jane Tanner, Rachael and Matthew Oldfield, Fiona and David Payne, and Mrs Payne’s mother Dianne Webster - have made a public statement to insist they had nothing to hide.
"We wish to state that there is categorically no ‘pact of silence’ or indeed anything secretive between us - just the desire to assist the search for Madeleine," they said in a joint statement, released by the McCanns’ spokesman Clarence Mitchell. 
"From day one, the police in Portugal told us not to discuss our statements. 
"It is incredibly frustrating for us that the fact we have done as we were asked to by the Portuguese police is still being looked upon as suspicious.
"Everything we have done, and continue to do, has been to help with the search for Madeleine and to end this nightmare for Gerry and Kate."…………
 
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1567702/Madeleine-McCann-Friends-deny-silence-pact.html
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Post by Doug D on 15.12.18 16:05

Older Joana Morais blog with the full Sol report and the DP quote:
 
“We have a pact. This is our matter only. It is nobody else’s business”, says David Payne.  

[size=15]Published in Sol
, on June 30, 2007
by Felícia Cabrita and Margarida Davim

Madeleine’s parents and the friends with whom they spent their holidays in Praia da Luz are suspects in the inquiry. There are contradictory versions about the night of the kidnapping, and an assumed pact of silence in the group.
[/size]
 
Continues……..




..............And Russell, when the questions start to surround him, loses his sympathy: “I have nothing further to tell you. I am not going to dishonour the compromise I assumed with Kate and Gerry. They want to control all information that is disclosed”.
 
https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/03/madeleine-case-pact-of-silence.html
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Post by Verdi on 15.12.18 22:58

Thank you Doug D. 

There was an abundance of reported denials in the UK press which is reason enough to think there might be some substance in the report. 

Then and again, through the eyes of the staunch critic they can't do right for doing wrong.  If they deny there is reason to wonder why, if they remain silent there is reason to wonder why.  As has been said of David Payne himself, all the allegations leveled against him and not a squeak in his own defence - had be spoken out in his defence the critic would likewise wonder why.  I am no exception to this double sided view.

It could have only been another attempt by team McCann to discredit the Portuguese investigation and media.  The McCanns and their friends couldn't speak Portuguese so someone must have been watching the media and reporting back to base.

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Post by loopzdaloop on 18.12.18 3:11

Thanks for the share,
Wheres the link for Sonia meeting Payne? Did anything happen. I think each member of the tapas could do with being doorstopped by investigators. (By this I mean the MET).
@Jill Havern wrote:
Dr David Payne, Woodland Hospital, Kettering, didn't want to tell the Police what he knew about Madeleine McCann's death and still hasn't to this day David_10

by jeanmonroe
Interviewing UK Police Officer DC 1485 IVOR MESSIAH questioning Gerry McCann's 'best buddy' Dr David Payne. (Friday the eleventh of April two thousand and eight)

DC 1485: "Is there anything that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth?'' (about a three year old child's 'disappearance')

D Payne 'reply': "Err the, there are a few things but I don't think this is the right forum for bringing those up.'

What are the 'few things' that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth, (about a child's 'disappearance') you want to keep 'SECRET' and not tell DC Messiah, Dave?

------------------
by Mirage

Can you imagine telling a police officer investigating a child's disappearance that you know a few relevant and pertinent things that you don't want to talk about now?

Can you imagine a police officer accepting that as an answer and letting you walk out of the station?

Can you imagine a police inquiry into a child's disappearance allowing witnesses to refresh their memories by reading their original statements or that of a spouse?

Can you imagine police officers, given a set of rogatory questions by the lead investigators in Portugal, allowing witnesses to be asked a question posed by two people who are suspects in the Portuguese investigation?

Can you imagine that almost nine years after making that statement, there is no evidence to suggest Dr Payne ever did enter a forum (of his choosing, or anyone else's) to divulge those pertinent and relevant details, not even after DCI Redwood revealed that the child may not have left the apartment alive?

Can anyone explain why that same witness, present in the vital hours and minutes before that child went missing, should have been, along with his wife, removed from a Crimewatch reconstruction that appealed to millions here and in certain other countries - but not Portugal, where the crime took place?


CMOMM: https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t13732-madeleine-mccann-cops-hunt-worker-at-resort-as-they-fear-he-kept-secrets-from-local-police


 Dr David Payne, at work, suspected of paedophilia by Dr Katarina Gaspar http://thegaspersstatement.blogspot.co.uk/
Dr David Payne, Woodland Hospital, Kettering, didn't want to tell the Police what he knew about Madeleine McCann's death and still hasn't to this day Wasdr_10

Related links:
http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/is-dr-david-payne-formerly-of-leicester.html

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t11737p10-have-i-just-met-david-payne
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Post by willowthewisp on 18.12.18 17:13

What people can deduce from the Madeleine McCann case and how certain Police Officers behave must constitute Two different aspects to Police investigative work?

Watch any youtube videos where Police Officers go about their Daily Patrols and how they question people on the streets of the UK!

You can be sure that, they never receive the DC 1485 Messahi,Dr Payne Version of questioning,that you submit,you know what may have happened but No further questioning,how is this possible and it was recorded aswell? 

As Mirage states,"Your feet wouldn't touch the ground" whoosh off to be questioned,continuously until you cracked?
But Not if your part of a "Secret Pact,Non disclosure Agreement" perhaps!

A bit like Madeleine's Ward of Court, produced within Eleven Days where the Parent's need Not attend a Legal aspect of their eldest Daughter who suddenly disappears without trace?
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Post by BlueBag on 18.12.18 19:50

@PeterMac wrote:And it is not just Dr Payne.

Let us refresh our memories


4078    “You also, when we spoke earlier, expressed a sense of frustration about the fact that you’d all been banned by the Super (inaudible).
Dianne Webster:    “That’s right, yes.
 
4078    “And you’d been very restrained in what you said.”
Dianne Webster:    “Yeah, yeah.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm

Nice post Peter.

This is important.

We taxpayers have the right to know why the investigation we are paying for is being frustrated by a "super (inaudible)".

What the hell is the "super (inaudible)"?

This needs to be pushed I think.

Did anyone ask OG?
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Post by PeterMac on 18.12.18 21:25

But the whole thing gets even more Kafkaesque . . .
We come across a very strange, bizarre, if not to say amusing, conundrum.


Let us assume that the aforementioned “Super (inaudible)” is in fact a super-injunction.
The Super-injunction is a relatively recent invention in English law, and was in fact given this name by a journalist. 
Definition:  In English tort law, a super-injunction is a type of injunction that prevents publication of information that is in issue and also prevents the reporting of the fact that the injunction exists at all.


So we have no way of knowing if there is such an order, but nor is anyone allowed to tell us.


And since we cannot know, and are prevented by law from knowing, we are surely at liberty to blunder on and discuss it, secure in the belief that we are not allowed to know and that no one is allowed to tell us . . .   [ I am not sure if that makes sense, but it seems to be the Law, and as often is the case, this particular aspect of libel law was 'developed' = invented, by Peter Carter-Ruck and His Honour Mr Justice Eady ]   
Any person who tells us would by definition be committing a very serious and punishable Tort by breaching the order, but – “. . . there’s a hole in my bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza . . .


Is there then a Super-injunction ?
Given that we cannot know, and are not allowed to know, what are the facts ?


1 Mrs Webster appears to confirm a proposition put to her by a detective.
The context seem to indicate that she feels ‘restrained’ by whatever it might be.


2 In the decade since the Rogatory interviews, and indeed for many months before, not a single one of the Tapas 7 has spoken in public about the events of late April and early May 2007.
Nor have any of the family members.   Even the egregious stentorian Philomena was eventually silenced.
And yet all have stories which would be worth money to the Tabloid press.


3 The Tabloid press have apparently not sent reporters to all their home addresses and places of work, rooting out the details, or simply making things up when they find nothing.
Even on significant anniversaries they have remained silent, allowing only the McCanns and Mitchell to repeat the official line.  The names of the journalists “permitted’ to handle the material are by now well known, even infamous.


4 On the other hand the Tabloid Press, in the form of Sky News and in the person of the egregious Martin Brunt, described as their Crime Correspondent, harassed and badgered, and then exposed a totally innocent woman to national vilification and abuse, by a clear attempt to stir up public hatred against her for an an entire day, until she was pushed into taking her own life.

But they did not speak to the person who had prepared the Dossier of Death - even we, with reasonable certainty, know who it was.



Why not?
Were they too - restrained ?

I don't know.  And speculation is pointless, since we are not allowed to know . . .

Sleep well.


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Post by Verdi on 18.12.18 23:07

I've always believed and still do, that Dianne Webster was referring to the Portuguese judicial secrecy ruling - not the McCann group's pact of silence nor any UK silencing influence.

In UK law a super injunction equates to much the same as the Portuguese judicial secrecy policy at the time of Madeleine McCann's disappearance.

Asides, looking at it logically - is it really likely Dianne Webster, a character witness called by the McCanns to be re-interviewed by rogatory, would openly admit she/they were controlled by a super injunction other than required by Portuguese law?

Team McCann never missed an opportunity to slag-off of the Portuguese, this I believe to be another example of just that.  Dianne Webster being silenced by stuffy archaic Portuguese law - as were the McCanns themselves when they were so desperate to speak out about their situation and the Portuguese investigation - so say they!

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Post by Phoebe on 18.12.18 23:16

It appears that the questioning during the rogatory interview of Dianne Webster was carried out by the same police officer who had already interviewed her several months previously. When they refer to Dianne feeling restrained, Ferguson uses the past rather than the present tense. I wonder if it is possible that the reference to being restrained in what she said refers to Portuguese Official Secrecy rules. If this former interview with Dianne occurred when the McCanns were still in Portugal as arguidos, then perhaps she felt she had to be careful in what she said, lest she should rock the boat for the McCanns before they made good their escape back to he U.K. I have often wondered if the term "Super -" was a clumsy attempt at referencing the Portuguese rules re. secrecy and no comment during live investigations. It would have been unfamiliar territory for a British police officer. Just a thought.

Oops, sorry Verdi, It appears we crossed posts. I agree with what you say.
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Post by Verdi on 18.12.18 23:47

Put in context..

Dianne Webster's rogatory interview - April 2008

4078    “Is there anything else that you’ve thought of that you wanted to say?”

Reply    “Not really, as I say I’m just disappointed that the investigation failed at the beginning.”
 
4078    “Mm.”

Reply    “You know, common sense to somebody like myself who knows nothing about how Police work or anything, common sense would tell me that you know they should’ve closed the borders, closed the apartment immediately, and in fact one of the women that did the initial fingerprinting on the shutter outside, and there was pictures of her in the paper, I mean she wasn’t even dressed appropriately, she had on jeans and a bomber jacket. So it was contamination probably from the Police themselves in the apartment.”
 
4078    “You also, when we spoke earlier, expressed a sense of frustration about the fact that you’d all been banned by the Super (inaudible).”

Reply    “That’s right, yes.”
 
4078    “And you’d been very restrained in what you said.”

Reply    “Yeah, yeah.”
 
4078    “And yet you felt that you’ve been very badly let down because of what’s come out.”

Reply    “Well that’s right I mean the only err the mere fact at, looking at the press err for, for quite, what seemed quite a while, they didn’t know who I was, I was never mentioned by name, I was just mentioned as an older, an older person err and then when my name did appear in the, in the British press I knew that err the leak had come from the Portuguese Police because my name was spelt correctly. Most people spelling Dianne would put one N in it and err mine’s got two N’s in it and it was spelt correctly.”
...................

No doubt in my mind Dianne Webster was referring to the Portuguese judicial secrecy statute.
 

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Post by PeterMac on 19.12.18 7:05

You may be right.   
The McCanns and some of their close "spokes-things' clearly did not feel so restrained.
And it doesn't explain why no Tabloids have managed to get a squeak out of any of them for the last decade.

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Post by PeterMac on 20.12.18 8:12

The British press are also under some sort of super (inaudible) in respect of a well known flamboyantly gay "entertainer" of a certain age, who makes Christmas advertising videos, who 'married' another slightly younger man and bought / adopted two children.
Elsewhere in the world, and on page after page on the internet, anyone can read the sordid and worrying details of the younger man's escapades, but in Britain apparently, no one is supposed to know, and everyone is supposed to pretend they are a devoted and loving couple in a stable relationship . . . .

Is the law an Ass, or a complete Ass ?

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Post by loopzdaloop on 24.12.18 20:14

@PeterMac wrote:

But the whole thing gets even more Kafkaesque . . .
We come across a very strange, bizarre, if not to say amusing, conundrum.





Let us assume that the aforementioned “Super (inaudible)” is in fact a super-injunction.
The Super-injunction is a relatively recent invention in English law, and was in fact given this name by a journalist. 
Definition:  In English tort law, a super-injunction is a type of injunction that prevents publication of information that is in issue and also prevents the reporting of the fact that the injunction exists at all.





So we have no way of knowing if there is such an order, but nor is anyone allowed to tell us.





And since we cannot know, and are prevented by law from knowing, we are surely at liberty to blunder on and discuss it, secure in the belief that we are not allowed to know and that no one is allowed to tell us . . .   [ I am not sure if that makes sense, but it seems to be the Law, and as often is the case, this particular aspect of libel law was 'developed' = invented, by Peter Carter-Ruck and His Honour Mr Justice Eady ]   
Any person who tells us would by definition be committing a very serious and punishable Tort by breaching the order, but – “. . . there’s a hole in my bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza . . .





Is there then a Super-injunction ?
Given that we cannot know, and are not allowed to know, what are the facts ?





1 Mrs Webster appears to confirm a proposition put to her by a detective.
The context seem to indicate that she feels ‘restrained’ by whatever it might be.





2 In the decade since the Rogatory interviews, and indeed for many months before, not a single one of the Tapas 7 has spoken in public about the events of late April and early May 2007.
Nor have any of the family members.   Even the egregious stentorian Philomena was eventually silenced.
And yet all have stories which would be worth money to the Tabloid press.





3 The Tabloid press have apparently not sent reporters to all their home addresses and places of work, rooting out the details, or simply making things up when they find nothing.
Even on significant anniversaries they have remained silent, allowing only the McCanns and Mitchell to repeat the official line.  The names of the journalists “permitted’ to handle the material are by now well known, even infamous.





4 On the other hand the Tabloid Press, in the form of Sky News and in the person of the egregious Martin Brunt, described as their Crime Correspondent, harassed and badgered, and then exposed a totally innocent woman to national vilification and abuse, by a clear attempt to stir up public hatred against her for an an entire day, until she was pushed into taking her own life.




But they did not speak to the person who had prepared the Dossier of Death - even we, with reasonable certainty, know who it was.






Why not?
Were they too - restrained ?




I don't know.  And speculation is pointless, since we are not allowed to know . . .




Sleep well.





So the Mccanns may have got a super injunction that stops their friends speaking to anyone, even the police?
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Dr David Payne, Woodland Hospital, Kettering, didn't want to tell the Police what he knew about Madeleine McCann's death and still hasn't to this day Empty Re: Dr David Payne, Woodland Hospital, Kettering, didn't want to tell the Police what he knew about Madeleine McCann's death and still hasn't to this day

Post by PeterMac on 24.12.18 22:04

We have no way of knowing, and can only guess. And we can never know whether our guess is right, or wrong.

The Tapas 7 may have their own reasons for not telling everything they know, though it is surely odd that they would then tell the Police that they were not going to tell them . . .
But this case is extremely strange on many levels, so we should not be surprised.
 
I suspect that we have all missed that the jub-jub bird was involved, and that a frumious bandersnatch had gyred and gimbled through the open wabe and used the vorpal sword to whoosh the brillig shutters before leaving through the mimsy borogoves, leaving the slithy toves to clean up after the mome raths had outgrabe.

(Actually, that seems to make slightly more sense than the official story.) 


Happy Christmas

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Dr David Payne, Woodland Hospital, Kettering, didn't want to tell the Police what he knew about Madeleine McCann's death and still hasn't to this day Empty Re: Dr David Payne, Woodland Hospital, Kettering, didn't want to tell the Police what he knew about Madeleine McCann's death and still hasn't to this day

Post by BlueBag on 25.12.18 7:54

@PeterMac wrote:The Tapas 7 may have their own reasons for not telling everything they know, though it is surely odd that they would then tell the Police that they were not going to tell them . . .
That is truly bizarre and can't be for real.

But it appears to be the case.

Crazy.
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Dr David Payne, Woodland Hospital, Kettering, didn't want to tell the Police what he knew about Madeleine McCann's death and still hasn't to this day Empty Re: Dr David Payne, Woodland Hospital, Kettering, didn't want to tell the Police what he knew about Madeleine McCann's death and still hasn't to this day

Post by worriedmum on 26.12.18 14:06

@PeterMac wrote:We have no way of knowing, and can only guess. And we can never know whether our guess is right, or wrong.

The Tapas 7 may have their own reasons for not telling everything they know, though it is surely odd that they would then tell the Police that they were not going to tell them . . .
But this case is extremely strange on many levels, so we should not be surprised.
 
I suspect that we have all missed that the jub-jub bird was involved, and that a frumious bandersnatch had gyred and gimbled through the open wabe and used the vorpal sword to whoosh the brillig shutters before leaving through the mimsy borogoves, leaving the slithy toves to clean up after the mome raths had outgrabe.

(Actually, that seems to make slightly more sense than the official story.) 


Happy Christmas
PeterMac, you forgot that' he chortled in his joy. '  Which I think we have seen on numerous occasions.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rv0vQueIWo
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Dr David Payne, Woodland Hospital, Kettering, didn't want to tell the Police what he knew about Madeleine McCann's death and still hasn't to this day Empty Re: Dr David Payne, Woodland Hospital, Kettering, didn't want to tell the Police what he knew about Madeleine McCann's death and still hasn't to this day

Post by PeterMac on 26.12.18 14:29

And is the Mortgage paid in full ?
And will the Tweedledums desist ?

Oh frabjous day, Caloo, Calay
He chortled in his joy

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Post by willowthewisp on 26.12.18 15:01

@PeterMac wrote:And is the Mortgage paid in full ?
And will the Tweedledums desist ?

Oh frabjous day, Caloo, Calay
He chortled in his joy
With the "Protectorate Halo" safely surrounding the Tapas 7/9,assisted by UK Governments and No accountability given for the expenditure involving Madeleine McCann's disappearance,greatly assisted by UK Police Officers,ex Commanders even?

Has there been a D-Notice on this case on a need to Know basis?
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