Leave No Stone Unturned

what made me wanted to look to all about this case again, is the result of looking to the work of the dogs. 

a lot of theories that exclude the thursday evening from likely day zero was the dogs, because eddy trained to find human cadaver scent , had need a body in situ for quite some time, some agree on an hour, others go for a minimum of 90 minutes.

and i always found that a pretty strong point in it. and simply more times opens up opportunities to work out an escape plan of the situation.

i started to look through a lot fresher information, i still have a few subscriptions to forensic journals and some are free to use, and others can be obtained by some alternative routes.

on decomposition times of a full body in situ was not really anything remarkable done, or had information to give a better minimum amount of time. 

and what i had was two dogs, only one was trained to a very high standard in searching for human remains, that was eddy. by rereading the pieces of martin grimes, the evidence collected by the pj in locations in 5a and the renault car. i could conclude that eddy was trained and able to find not only complete bodies, but actually all human decomposed remains, including blood.

that blood is often used even to tell sloppy dog and trainer stories on twitter. 

but blood itself belong to human remains too, and the second fact is, blood does decompose too.
the third eddy is also trained on decomposing blood. 

if you take a look in the files about what they found in the second forensic investigation, which took place after the dogs signaled, they found on the alert spot was hard baked tiles with grout in between, in the grout and under the tiles they found possible human blood. i say possible because such findings are hardly still accepted as only identified on the eyesight of an officer, but still the officers called it blood. 
going by experience if one of my own team would say to me during an investigating we found something that looks like blood, i would put that to a test too, at the time the first conclusion was blood, not only portuguese police offers had been present, they had instruction from the uk during the process of taking the samples. 

the tiles have been lifted, the grout taken together and they took also samples, all was send to the fss lab in the uk, sadly that lab just say we can not tell you where the dna is from by origin, and did go ahead with their lcn-dna testing. that was not something i ever have experienced, you just send samples with a list of questions and usually a senior scientist of the lab will assist you, by pointing out of the samples could be used to give you your answer, and if they can not do it by their lab, they are always been able to advise another lab who could do the needed testing. 

also it is very uncommon to use a full sample stick for testing, most testing just use a part of it, 1/4 or 1/3 is very common, so if a test set up does not work out, or there arise questions later you have still something to redo a test. 

it is also a standard that an extern lab does not very often will communicate with a police officer, usually it is expert to expert communication so between the external lab and the inbound forensic services, because nothing is easy or simple to explain, and extern labs are often more specialist and lack te time to explain until you get it. 
also usually you work for many years with the same teams of people, so your own service knows your level of understanding, and that will save a lot of time. 

nothoing of above ever happened in this case at all. no, we can not do that, and later on asking if what they could not test could be thrown out. 

there is only rumour how much of we 'we can not do stuff' is left behind at all, or how it is kept, and i do hope it is all still there.

but i started looking to the materials they took and the grout is of a porous structure, the samples from that area that have been tested agree on a human origin, but not typed beyond human celulair material with a incomplete and mixed result in dna. 

the same can be said of the inner parts of the car, where blood, or other decomposition fluids could have been left behind.

there is much work done about how you can store samples of any kind of human decomposition materials , to be used as a training aid for the service dogs. nor the guys who train these dogs, nor the scientist are to be called lazy or easy going, they are always in favour of better themselves, they work together to get in just better results. it are actual dogs who already are active in the field of crime scenes and possible crime scenes, so no half trained lab animals with second best trainers, no just the real deal. 

the only sentence that is still a kind of mantra is, these bl.ody dogs are always better than us and what we can make and do. only in a lot more sophisticated manner.

all dogs of martin grime and himself have futures in many parts of this kind of research. the trouble that gives is the quality of these dogs, they are very, very good. they have proven themselves in the research field and in working crime scenes.

so even if there only be kept marginal samples behind, the chance to find them is way above average. 

a lot of work is already done on all kinds of material that was also porous, not specific grout, but porous material can store decomposition fluids, many of the material that is used in training aids for the dogs is even of a porous nature. 
where keela, the 'blood dog'was trained to find blood that once was a fresh deposit of blood that dried in situ. eddy was trained also on that at the start of his traing, but was later on because of talent also trained on all and everything you can name of a human body and that can decompose. 

the proces of decomposition asks at least for, any kind of vast of fluid human material that is no longer part of a living human and all contact to keep that alive. the other important thing is moisture content. because the break down what decomposition is, is partly by chemical reaction and eating and digesting it by bacteria, there is a minimum amount of moisture needed. almost all bacteria can not be alive when moisture content becomes less than 20%. air is lees a problem, because of the very different bacteria and chemical processes each just ask their own access to things like oxygen. some have just very little need for that. 

and we do still have no complete knowledge how exactly all these processes take place, and it is understood, we not even have knowledge of all the kind of new combinations that are made during decomposition. 
we are long gone from the popular cadaverine. this lack in knowledge is also what it makes it almost impossible to make use of artificial scent of death, and we have still no insight in what the dogs react to, other than the scents of in situ dried blood, for keela, or the scents of death eddy react to. 

my reading up resulted in my conclusion, that even when like in this case there was no longer a body present, the blood that transferred into cavities in the porous material, still would decompose and was what stayed behind, but it lost for me the availability that a body had been present for an amount of time, because the blood could very well fill the gap, even if the body was gone in 5 minutes, the blood that got in the porous grout, and it did, because relics of blood was found even under them. could in itself got all the time needed to decompose. 

we do not know how minimal a dose of the voc's eddy his nose needed. cleaning of the surface could even restarted each time another round of decomposition, because moisture could access the same porous material, so even when the surface was cleaned, and the kind of cleaning was by standard optical quality level by the standards of the ocean club house keeping services. 

so i can not longer take a body in situ for a minimal amount of time before decomposition can decontaminate the surrounding area. the blood in between the ground never left 5a before the dogs alerted and the tiles have been taken up. so what once for me at least was the strongest point to make a event on that thursday evening possible lost its strength. 

is it prove it happened that evening, no, it is not. 

kate her question how a body that was there only for a short time could lead to a dog as eddy alerting to it, could very well have been because the body did not stay, but the blood did. 
taking in mind the proven quality of eddy and his results, and yes his results do have been put to the test in the lab too. it was eddy 's nose who just wrecked one of the very promising artificial noses. 
and eddy made a mess of the artificial stinkies too.

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Additionally, the three formulations were tested in outdoor and indoor scenarios by a double-blinded canine team, using a certified and specifically trained victim recovery canine with multiple confirmed recoveries, to determine if the formulations would be recognized by that canine as being related to human decomposition. The canine used in this study did not provide a positive response to any of the formulations tested in either test scenario. 

martin grime is a named author. and eddy made in this piece 5 years of work through the drain. 
he only barks for the real deal. this article was published in 2014, their reputation was still intact. 

so yes, for me is this something why i want to look again over all and everything. just because another little piece of stone got turned. there was some of the human remains left behind, and there was a very good quality dog that puts his nose in. i can not simply throw that out. and i never do preferent points in time, i like the complete story out. i can not claim a result to it, but it deserves a look.

this link is to an article , more a review in not to scientific language, still difficult enough if you are not used to is, about where we are standing around decomposition, the scent of death, all kind of stages and parts, and the work of dogs with it.

it was published september this year and has open access on pub med;

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it has no nasty pictures or endless list of difficult names. it is written pretty decent. 

of course the work done in 2007 is difficult to replicate, time is a factor in this line of work. but there is so much more known now. and it is there to be used. the abilities of a well trained dog are not changed, they always could do it, only we are just starting to learn what they can smell, and what a human body can leave behind in smell. still we are not fully able to find out what a dog smells at a specific moment, but they proved themselves by results and in the research settings over and over again.

He's another Dutch 'investigative journalist' capitalizing on the disappearance of Madeleine McCann..

The Truth Is Out There: Madeleine

Peter Scharrenberg

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2nd BOOK ABOUT THIS CASE 'The Shadow Investigation' OUT NOW! Dutch investigative journalist Peter Scharrenberg found two witnesses who told quite a different story than Gerry McCann did about his presence in the tapasbar on the evening of May 3rd 2007. In fact they said that he was gone for 30 minutes. Nobody knows what he did during that crucial period. Except for an Irish family, who believe they saw him downtown carrying a little blond girl. Read all about this and about the statements of the tapas-9, the forensic results, the lies, the strange behaviour of the parents, the Madeleine fund, the false timeline and the Portugese and British police investigation. Read also about a frustrated catholic priest, a retired businessman, a dishonest key witness, an impossible burglary and the mysterious pool picture. Make up your own mind about what happened to Madeleine on that dramatic evening in May 2007.

Madeleine: The Shadow Investigation Paperback – 27 April 2019

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Dutch investigative journalist Peter Scharrenberg studied the Portuguese police files and subsequently did his own investigations in Praia da Luz and in other parts of the Algarve. His first book about the case 'The Truth Is Out There' was very successful, clarifying the facts of the case for readers who had so far only heard about it from the main stream media. It also revealed that two crucial witnesses were completely overlooked by the police. Now, exactly 12 years after Madeleine's disappearance the author is back with a second book about the case, which contains pivotal information that is not discussed ever before. This new and very revealing book, 'The Shadow Investigation', is a must-read for everyone who wants to know what happened to Madeleine McCann during that fateful holiday in May 2007 in Praia da Luz. The publisher.

Like the work of Nick van der Leek, memory tells me this book was also removed from the forum by admin because it was considered to be rubbish - my words.

Something niggling the back of my mind tells me Leek and Scharrenberg are one and the same - but don't quote me, it's a niggle that would require close examination, not by me.

crusader wrote:The video definately makes you think though.

Sorry, I'm having trouble posting.

See if this works for you - and anyone else with an interest..



Click on watch on YouTube, it should work.

the are not the same person, but there is also not a known dutch journalist or reporter with that name at all, nick van de leek is south african based. the others is dutch. and most likely a member of the forum too. just a very silent one. 

there are very well known members with the same surname, very active in writing and formerly in the true crime scene. 

and i never fell for the idea they had no netwerk available at all. the poor only mccanns, all alone out there.
and it probably had not matter if a body was found early on, as long as it was outside 5a and not in connection to the mccanns, it could have nicely fitted in the narration of the abductor who did it all. 

until around 11 that evening it always have been the mccanns who owned the narrative and timeline. and as everyone was looking for a lost, but very much alive child, what easily results in looking only for opportunities a child has, so closed of properties could easily be used to keep a body hidden for a time. 

and they had quite a network, the paynes through family in more northern parts of portugal. that line was used to get them the next day non to their names registered phones, handed on the stairs of the police station in portimao.

but they called so many people the first days, all they needed was only one who could arrange or suggest a available holiday let, like for use for the family, or if they wanted some hours to escape the media attention. 
people do not have to be in the know, it is the kind of help people do give. often there is simply a keyu hidden on the property, or a care taker will leave a key for grabs. certainly in early or late season, there is hardly much communication needed, most houses we rented in multiple countries outside high season, the door would just be open, with a little note and some keys on the table. 

the same possibility could have been used by just booking by phone or even the internet by family, or friends. they had not to leave the uk for that. late minute booking is very common. and there is usually not even that much checking in who you are. booking from a company is very easy too. a short golf trip would not be a strange event at all. 

they already had made it to the right circle of people, so the connections would be already available. and they had no need to explain much. in the first days most would just been willing to help in any way they could. 

before schengen all was very different, most tourist areas had still an obligation to keep a register and handed your information and even passport numbers or copies as soon as possible to the local police or council. after that you could certainly outside high season, for one or two weeks travel complete anonymus as long you choose only b&b or campings, i rented many simple so called huts when the wetter was bad, without any one asking for names or to register information, just pay with cash and on you go. 

and there is a lot of investment from abroad in holiday lets, often people take a few weeks in summer, some not even that. 

this doctor story has still no direct ties to the mccan's or the tapas 7, but there could have been even multiple people they could just choose one that suited them best. high season would most years only have started from july on. 

after they got the pre paid portuguese phones it also would mean, they could no longer be traced to that, leave your own at the usual address. they kept all about it very vague. and if a phone is available so eurly a car would even been easier. sandy and trish had a helpful friend with a car for getting from the airport to praia da luz. 

and you do not even have a connection in person, our car broke down once in norway, there was hardly anything, all i had to do to get the right element to fix it, was calling a friend who is in sales all over the world, half an hour later i had found a repairman, a garage we could use and the stuff was send by a carrier. 
so it is very easy to use connections in people who just know of others, and want to be of help. 
so with a bit of luck and others that want to vouch for you, you hardly ever be alone out there. 

and they both had connections, it comes with the job, and well before, from their uni days and school days too. gerry played golf in rotley. both would have had even patients, they had lived outside the uk, in new zealand and the netherlands. been to conferences. 

and it does not mean helping people are also in the know, it is really underestimated how many people do help others without ever asking why they need it. and in this case most just walked in the poor parents hype, and most likely just start offering help. even if they get it in their minds to start to think about things that could be fishy, most will just keep their mouth shut, people who got duped are usually more into distancing because of shame, than starting talking. 

and even when the statistics do tell young children until school ages are most times a victim of parents, carers or people they do know and trust, it is not what people want to hear, or want to think about. 
and that makes it very difficult to get it known to an investigation. it do not have to be direct connections at all. 

the information about people been seen at a late hour near the church, being seen somewhere by a unknown appartement most likely are out there by locals, but still no direct line. maybe only half a story heard somewhere, and someone wanted to let that be known. and that is most times the only way to get your hands on it. and the first investigation did not get the needed permission to track and tail the mccann's. 
so if it indeed was about relevant people around this case, they still only could guess if it also had a meaning at all.

Considering the prevailing stance of the British press and media, filtering through similar voices across Europe and beyond .... 'it's the fault of the Portuguese judiciary, they are the reason the beast that snatched the tot has never been prosecuted'. You know the form, the same bungling sardine munchers who failed to secure the already contaminated crime scene - already contaminated by the parents McCann, their group of friends, Ocean Club staff and anyone else with a free pass.

Combing through the files, I despaired. It was only now that I became aware of just how cursory some of the police work had been. Vital questions had not been asked, alibis not verified, lines of inquiry left dangling or, at best, not adequately documented. There is no doubt that the police were overwhelmed, both by having to deal with a crime of this nature under such scrutiny and by the sheer volume of information pouring in.

madeleine by KATE MCCANN

How would she know?

I reckon it was she who was overwhelmed.

How can you possibly obtain a copy of the PJ files, have it translated in entirety (so say she), speed read and then decide for yourself what vital questions weren't asked;  what alibis were not verified;  what lines of inquiry were left dangling;  what was not adequately documented?

That's the exact position we, as outside observers of the case, are in - we just don't know the detail.

It's not how the police work, apart from anything else they are not obliged to reveal anything to the public unless they have good reason so to do.

That's what makes a mockery of the social media non-entity who did or does refer to herself as The Queen of Portugal but living in Calif-or-nia.  She who repeatedly claims to have obtained inside information by dropping-in various official establishments here there and everywhere and being given confidential case information over a chat.

Danger is, people listen!

It was certainly a very strange arrangement.

David Cameron has returned to the cabinet table for the first time in more than seven years on Tuesday after his recall to government.

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Oh joy to the world.

Having a poke about Cameron's history I happened upon an old article published by The Telegraph, an interview featuring Clarence Mitchell opining on the Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann.

I quote:

What McCann spokesman Clarence Mitchell really thinks happened to Madeleine

By Madeline Goodwin 3 June 2019 • 5:20pm

Nowadays, he does little work with the McCanns, and remains uncertain over Madeleine's fate. “I asked the British authorities what they think happened and if there was any family involvement, and they assured me it was just a rare case of stranger abduction.

“It’s very rare, but it can happen." A sexual motive, he says, is an "obvious" possibility. Kate and Gerry remain hopeful that, as per "other cases, where a missing child has been found alive after many years," there remains hope: that, coupled with "the complete absence of any evidence that Madeleine has been physically harmed," gives them the sense that their eldest daughter may well still be alive.

Though Mitchell hopes the mystery "could all end on one phone call tomorrow, so far, it hasn’t.

“A child was taken to order from that room.”

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Note the date - just one year before the latest suspect hit the headlines.

Enter a German man of some description?

I'm pretty sure this has been copied over to CMOMM in the past, not so long ago but vot the hell - Christmas is a time for repeats..

Madeleine McCann: The Theories

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Image Credit: Collect/Handout / Alamy Stock Photo | Background: Shutterstock.com | Above: A police handout photograph of Madeleine McCann who went missing on the 3rd May 2007

It’s been 13 years since Madeleine McCann vanished. Such is the infamy of the case that its core details have achieved almost folkloric permanence in the public imagination. The holiday apartment in Portugal; the fateful dinner in the tapas restaurant; the discovery that Madeleine was missing; the immense media fallout.

We may never know what really became of three-year-old Madeleine on 3 May 2007. But certain competing theories have developed and persisted over the years.

She was snatched by a lone paedophile

An unfortunately inevitable theory is that the young girl was abducted by a paedophile. This could have been a purely spontaneous and opportunistic attack: someone near the apartment complex could have noticed the adults coming back from the restaurant to check on the kids every so often, deduced the kids were unsupervised, and then struck when the coast was clear.

Alternatively, a lone paedophile may have planned the abduction in advance, having observed the daily habits of the family in the apartment complex. In the early aftermath of the disappearance, it was widely reported in the press that, according to a source close to the investigation, 'The area is a magnet for paedophiles. There have been seven sexual assaults involving the children of tourists in the Algarve in the last four years.'

She was taken by human traffickers

Some have argued that, if a lone paedophile had indeed stolen Madeleine, she would have likely been eventually murdered, and the body discovered. The lack of any trace of the missing girl therefore raises the possibility she was taken by human traffickers – a scenario that, though deeply unpleasant and distressing to contemplate, at least leaves room for the possibility of her still being alive.
In the words of private investigator Julian Peribanez, 'The value that Madeleine had was really high. If they took her, it’s because they were going to get a lot of money.'

Portugal’s geographical position has been emphasised by those believing in the trafficking theory, who point out how easy it would be to transport the girl across the border into Spain, and then taken by boat to Morocco. A number of alleged sightings of Madeleine have been reported in Morocco since her disappearance, and – though nothing concrete has been established – it’s still a favourite theory among those who follow the case.


She was killed in a burglary gone wrong

Could thieves have broken into the McCanns’ apartment, then either accidentally or deliberately killed Madeleine when she woke up to catch them in the act?

This may seem like a rather unlikely scenario, but Scotland Yard detectives have taken it seriously. In 2011, when reviewing the investigation, detectives did highlight a number of burglaries in Algarve apartments, noting a four-fold increase in the months immediately preceding Madeleine’s disappearance.

A group of local men were even questioned in connection to this theory in 2014, with one – Paulo Ribeiro – later telling the BBC of his shock at being accused of Madeleine’s disappearance. It seems that Portuguese detectives disagreed with British cops about the notion of burglars being behind it, with one local policeman, Carlos Anjos, later saying 'This burglary theory is absurd. Not even a wallet disappeared, no television disappeared, nothing else disappeared. A child disappeared.'

This is the most controversial of all the possible explanations and one that has dogged Kate and Gerry McCann from the beginning of their ordeal. The main iteration of this theory is that Madeleine accidentally died when she was sedated by her parents. They then – perhaps with help from fellow holidaymakers dubbed the 'Tapas 7' – hid her body and claimed she’d been abducted. At some point afterwards, despite the full glare of the media falling on them, the McCanns returned to dispose of the body without anybody noticing.

Advocates of the theory point to alleged inconsistencies in statements given by the McCanns on the events of the evening. They’ve also made much of the fact that forensic sniffer dogs indicated that a corpse had been inside a car the McCanns had rented several weeks after Madeleine’s disappearance. The obvious counterargument here is that sniffer dogs can be very unreliable and that other DNA traces recovered from the car and apartment has been entirely inconclusive.

Despite the lack of any evidence implicating the McCanns, and the sheer improbability of a holidaying couple covering up their daughter’s death in a popular resort without any trace left behind, the fact that Kate and Gerry were once considered official suspects by Portuguese police is enough to have permanently condemned them in the eyes of many.

It’s an idea that gets the least attention, perhaps because it’s the least sensationalist, but could Madeleine have simply woken up, wandered out of the apartment in search of her parents, and come to a sad end?

Some, including ex-cop and investigative journalist Mark Williams-Thomas, have claimed this is a strong possibility.

'I think Maddie was aware they were in the tapas bar in the resort,' he said in an interview. 'In order to get to the bar you have to come out of the premises, walk on a public road and go back in again. The concern I have, I believe she woke up and went looking for them, she left the apartment and came out.'

It’s been speculated that the 'wandering Madeleine' may have fallen into a deep trench dug by road workers, or run over by a local driver who then panicked and buried her body somewhere.

Sinister occult forces took her

The McCann case has become so mythic that it’s inspired increasingly baroque conspiracy theories. Depending on which corner of the Internet you look at, everyone from the Freemasons to the Illuminati (or both) have been implicated in her disappearance. Certainly, the 'Pizzagate' conspiracy theory has only bolstered these allegations.

Pizzagate emerged in the run-up to the 2016 US presidential election, with online activists alleging that members of Hillary Clinton’s inner circle were involved in Satanic child sex rituals, with a Washington pizza restaurant the secret epicentre of a trafficking operation. Among the political operatives demonised by Pizzagate were John and Tony Podesta, who were subsequently accused of being the McCann kidnappers when a resemblance was noted between the Podestas and a pair of e-fit sketches.

However, what many conspiracy theorists don’t realise is these two sketches are both actually of a single suspect – a man who was spotted carrying a child in his arms close to the resort that fateful night. But, once again, the lack of any evidence of secret, occult, VIP sex traffickers hasn’t dampened some people’s certainty that they are definitely behind the disappearance.

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Tch tch tch Mr Crime and Investigation - this just won't do..

It’s an idea that gets the least attention, perhaps because it’s the least sensationalist, but could Madeleine have simply woken up, wandered out of the apartment in search of her parents, and come to a sad end?

Some, including ex-cop and investigative journalist Mark Williams-Thomas, have claimed this is a strong possibility.

'I think Maddie was aware they were in the tapas bar in the resort,' he said in an interview. 'In order to get to the bar you have to come out of the premises, walk on a public road and go back in again. The concern I have, I believe she woke up and went looking for them, she left the apartment and came out.'

It’s been speculated that the 'wandering Madeleine' may have fallen into a deep trench dug by road workers, or run over by a local driver who then panicked and buried her body somewhere.

Funny how all roads lead to the same 'sauce' innit?

I can't post this on the photographs revisited thread because it's already been disabled, here will have to do. It's only a reiteration of past unanswered questions but when looking for a missing child?

This?

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Image Credit: Collect/Handout / Alamy Stock Photo | Background: Shutterstock.com | Above: A police handout photograph of Madeleine McCann who went missing on the 3rd May 2007

Rather than this?

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yeah, and they send that one of almost a year taken before in at first. and they do change a lot in a year in these ages. interpol still has the first in their notices. 

it is that picture above that is in the files of the dutch police;

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the text is in dutch of course, i looked again, because she was one that stood out as the only not dutch case. 

at least scotland yard was not agreeing with the time give by gerry on his watch, he states kate left the table at 22.03 on his watch and at 22.13, he was just to stand up to look why kate was not back yet, and she came running in the restaurant. 

the information would get their by the uk police, and that makes kate leaving the table around 22.25 hours. 
it also never was updated after we had our version of crime watch in 2013.