Leave No Stone Unturned

The resultant publicity stunt has always been a very questionable aspect of the case, it's easy to see who orchestrated the European/North African tour and the reason why but what remains a mystery is the level of attention the case attracted.

On the surface it would appear to be an escalating goodwill exercise, like a magnetic field drawing attention far and wide, like the proverbial rolling stone.

Connections in press and media, connections with government officials, connection in the sporting world - so on and so forth.

most of that was most likely the result of getting mitchell in it, just pr.

a shame there is nothing left of their amsterdam media tour, all we still know is they did not like the questions of the dutch journalists at all. in germany they had been much nicer.

and it is mostly because of the pr stunts this case got so much attention, also because of the time of year.

it has nothing to do at all with nationality or where it happened. 

it is not a typical white girl is missing syndrome event at all, it is an made event. and if you look around on other social media you mostly see the same names reacting. i even think the common public is much less invested as many of the media like to think. and most is made attention too. 

it lost so early on the victim in the spotlights and got in so many other angles, and it never changed back to the victim. 
so it is not even about the victim. the name is stil used, but even the parents can not get the effort in to promote a more recent impression of how the young woman now could look. forget the artistically impressions on the internet, they are horrible. 

for most people it will become a vague memory of something that caught a lot of attention in a summer once upon a time.

besides ben needham, there is also still the case of katrice lee, who disappeared in germany, also a case that hardly gets attention, not even when there was a new search done. she got in november last some attention in crime watch. but it still is not even 1% of the attention for madeleine. and all missing children need it. and there must of course be also many missing children in the uk too. 

the big difference all other cases are not handled as a pr exercise. remember that video of mitchell does australia on tour, how proud he was on his work, still i can not understand that, being proud on how this case was handled, only usually you will be proud if you get a result. and that makes it always the question what he sees as the result. it was not finding the answer to what happened to a little girl called madeleine. 
so for me that speech was very telling, he is just proud on getting the free out of jail card for some parents. 
he never was there in it for a girl named madeleine at all. 

for the earlier messages, people can do a lot in little time, if they fear the police. and even this was all very personal, most of them are trained doctors, so they are also trained to do things in little time, under pressure and urgency. 

it is not much different than police officers, they hardly know where they are send out to, and have to do a awful lot of quick thinking and handling, without time to plan much, or people working on the ambulances, and the fire brigade, you can not really train for all kinds of actions, and often some have to be just made possible on the spot. 

most of the training is just keeping your mind in it, keep being able to think and think quickly. try not to bring harm to yourself and do not make the event larger. and all in situations you only have minutes. 
2.5 minutes means a risk on permanent brain damage, 5 minutes means dead. 

we only have the words of the tapas 9 that the alarm was at 10, going by the statements, and they had well over 12 hours before they had to produce them officially, it must even be later. 
but there are other statements too, mrs. carpenter who heard when they left the restaurant going back to their appartement called the name that could have been maddy. they left around 21.30 hours.

none of the people working that evening in the tapas restaurant, saw kate running in or heard any commotion or raised voices. they started to notice after the most had left the restaurant , that diane was there on her own.

so they could have much more time to get a coverstory out, a time line put together, and they would not have need multiple versions if they had days to work them out. and i think the only think that counted for all 9 was that they indeed feared a unknown police force in a strange country that would not see their way of parenting as okay. even if it was not each night the same. 

for me it does not say all are in the know about all and everything when the gnr and later the pj arrived. most would in the time after have put 2 and 2 together. all of them lied from time to time, it goes way beyond just mistaken about times, or order. 
and do not forget it took until the next day for the official statements are taken, so that are many more hours to make us of to get the story straight. 

and i think the behavior of mostly kate, does fit more natural with just been told het child died and they had to hide it, because they had important matter to care for, important for them. it was way over the top for a missing child that could be found any minute. 

the only thing that pleads for me to an earlier happening is there is nothing in 5a that shows a frantic looking mother for a child that is not there. and there is nothing said by anyone, that tells about such signs. 

and i do know it is for some people not impossible to put emotions on hold.

the problem is always the why they did what they did. but we do not have to understand their reasons at all, because it are only theirs. and people who do stupid things do often have not the kind of reasons most of us would see as sound reasons. 
the strangest i ever heard was in a house that got a robbery, the male inhabitant got his hunting riffle from the closet, loaded it with a shell full of hail, and shot half of the load in his own wife, when i asked why he took that shot in the way he did, was; because there was a painting behind the shooter and he would wanted to miss that. they are still married. 

the why in human behaviour has often no logic at all. and stupid decisions can be made in seconds or even less, and people have often no window in their thinking in what just step back, take a breath and start telling the truth can be as the best solution. most who start out hiding the result of actions, do not see a way out, and the longer it takes on, the less motivation they usually can find to just cough it up. 

and in this case most of what we think to know is only told. there is no way to prove if anything they did tell is true or not. so most of what we think out about it is, because we accept bits and pieces as true. 
the problem with that is that we all have our own thresholds for that. there are so little facts.

anyone here by the way know what the topic was, where there was discussion about a family gathering on a beach about 14 days in the case. i think most was about that they held a kind of remembrance moment for the family, because they most likely could be sure the problem with where the body had to end up was secured. i can not get that simple bit of mitchell in that video out of my head, when he says 14 days after it happened loaded a body in the rented car. i know mitchell likes to say things that are not true easy. but it fits so nice with that time. so i would like to reread that again.

there was at least one car available pretty early on, the one from friends of the cameron's, who could lent if from a friend toi travel to pdl from the airport.

that car was not part of the series that have been searched by the dogs. 

and it also shows how help could be arranged very early on. 

We arrived in Portugal on Saturday morning, where a friend lent us a car to use and we went to Praia da Luz. My first impression was that everything was busy, but there was also a surreal sensation of passivity. Kates mother and father were already there.
We stayed for 3 months, initially returning home for a few days in the middle of June in order to deal with financial affairs and work related subjects. 


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but no word about it in sandy his own statement, but he had a lot to tell about the hired car of course.


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a car that is also missed by the media completely. 

This is not working is it.

In the past I've always liked to take readers on a forum magical mystery tour of the extensive work and member discussion covering every aspect of the case, as CMOMM has done since it's inauguration back in 2009.

Now it's all just random, no continuity, no effective management - frankly I can't work like this.

Of course I can link any subject matter to a sub-forum or thread (if not deleted) whether locked or not but that doesn't take you to the heart of the subject matter, only broad coverage. As I previously said, it's akin to X (formerly twitter) or YouTube comments, only a feed of irrelevant anonymous comments by all and sundry about any old topic that enters the head.

I'm not meaning to criticize you good people who are trying to keep the forum active, on the contrary, my view is about how to get my head around a limited space without the forum going under.

Maybe it doesn't matter anymore but I wish I had been consulted before implementation of the changes, it appears very unreasonable considering all the work I have done for the forum over the years.

C'est la vie!

There was also car in Praia da Luz at the time Madeleine McCann 'disappeared' rented by friends of Russell O'Brien and Jane Tanner, James and Charlotte Gorrod, neighbours I think they were.

Not suggesting for a moment they should/could be implicated in any way - too far fetched for my liking but the press and social media made a field day of it.

The topic was discussed somewhere here on CMOMM back in the day, if I remember rightly it was even suggested the villa where they stayed (?) was - or could be, the location of the 'make-up' photograph. I think because the paintwork was thought to be a similar colour. Couldn't see it myself but there you go!

yes, but that one did end up in the line up for the dogs. 

but the pother one is like the phones they got their hands on, with numbers not traceable to them, through a broter in law it was, i think from memory from david payne, that lived or was connected to a more northern part of portugal.

sandy and patricia cameron mccann arrived on the saturday, the phones they got handed the friday already at the steps of the police station in portimao. that was pretty quick within 48 hours a unknown car and a unknown phone number to make use of. 

it is also why you can not use the phone ping data, to see where they could have been. they did not need their own numbers. 

so far the 'we are alone out there' idea. 

in 2007 you could also book a lot of cars and accommodations online, they could have just used a connection from everywhere, that would not easily be linked to them. 

the same with always under the eyes of the media, but the pj had no tail on them at all. and look what odd things they could use to keep the eyes on what they wanted you to see. jogging, sitting in the sun near the swimming pool. mitchell's special press moments. the first hang out of the press was mostly on the corner around 5a. but that was only parttime the media took a lot of time to work from the local pubs and cafes. 
and even later at the villa you only see the media in connection with one of mitchell's arrangements.  

but it was a nice try t sell it as a story line.

It's looking like there is no stone left to turn, the Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann has finally come to an end.  Personally I think it started to wind down around the 10th anniversary, there's been nothing since then worthy of note, or more to the point likely to lead anywhere.

Tabloids might continue to grab any opportunity for another airing of the same rubbish that's been churned out over more recent years, the McCanns themselves however have all but withdrawn from public life, with the exception of a few words at Christmas/New Year and anniversaries.

Thinking on the Metropolitan Police unit (Operation Grange) set-up in 2011 to review and later upgraded in 2013 to 'investigate' specific lines of inquiry in conjunction with the relevant authority, the Portuguese judiciary.  I think it can now be safely concluded the Portuguese are not actively investigating anything relative to the case of Madeleine McCann. 

Bi-annual press reports would have you believe the Home Office continue to fund Operation Grange (the case being out of UK jurisdiction so not funded in-house) but in reality I very much doubt that be how it stands.  More than once I copied over the Home Office press report detailing why and how they allocate funding, worded in such a way that could be misleading.  In short, it's not a case (not in latter years) of here's a million quid for you to play with for a year.  Not worth the effort of finding again, such matters have no meaning anymore.

The case is finished, folk have long since lost interest - at least lost interest in the facts and evidence that guide the case.

Operation Grange don't need any more funding, any future reports on it's continuation will be misinformation or a notional figure that might cover the duty officer at the desk - or the tea trolley and they're already in-situ, they don't require special funding.

Any criminal case can be reopened at the drop of a hat if new evidence or credible information comes to light, Madeleine McCann will be no exception in this respect.

R.I.P.

Any update on the Forum?

Nothing more than things appear to be proceeding as initially declared.

All matters relating to Madeleine McCann are being made (or have been made) read only and the member's lounge left open for members to keep in touch, if that's what they wish.

The latest news sub-forum (which includes the debate section) is open if members wish to continue discussion about the case.  If not the forum will be closed

That's how I interpret the current situation.

ETA:  A few threads of topical interest are still open but have been moved to the member's lounge

it is pretty silent everywhere at the moment, even the media has little to write about.

only on you tube there is a bit more, not very much new at all, but at least it is attention. some can do with a bit of debunking too. 

it will most likely get back on everywhere when the trial in germany starts. how silly that all is as an adventure of justice, it still makes a lot of people looking at the case of madeleine behind it. 
it is embarrassing how eager and willingly a lot of people believe anything they are told. also how the same myths are taking over time after time. 

the case is still unsolved, that is not changed at all, during all these years. books are still not translated for the uk market. that is not changed too.

Where or what is the confusion?

The new forum was outlined and appears to be moving according to plan.

What more can be said or done?

crusader wrote:It's widely known and believed what happened to Madelwine, it's only the proof that's missing and while the powers that be do all in their power to cover it up, there will be no end to it.

No indeed there will never be an end to it in broad terms, even Jack the Ripper retains a high profile long after his death and in the absence of evidence or new developments no doubt a hard core will continue ad-infinitum to repeat myth and misinformation about the Madeleine McCann case for eternity.

New generations might emerge with a cursory interest but they will have nothing further to guide them but the PJ files, otherwise they too will be bogged down by the years of falsehood and speculation.

I truly don't believe the case will ever be solved, never have thought so but the need to keep the case topical was compelling, if for no other reason the name and memory of Madeleine McCann who has been abandoned in favour of self interest on the part of those directly involved who should care over and above all else. Over on YouTube people will continue to use the name for profit as they will continue to write books of fiction, not because they care, as the press and media will be 'alerted' whenever there is reason (no matter how tenuous) to profit by the name Madeleine McCann.

Whilst I can't disagree with the continuation of being that damnable thorn in the side, I don't agree it should be done through the medium of harbingers of speculation and misinformation - which can of course be sometimes very detrimental.

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Have recently regurgitated the very short New Year 2024 message which has been coming and going on the official website at a rate of knots

Bearing in mind the message, albeit brief, has been published by the Find Madeleine Fund I think the 'sauce' can be considered authentic - that's to say not hearsay, isn't the wording of the message a bit peculiar?

This bit in particular..

Kate and Gerry wrote:Whilst there is no new significant news to share in the search for Madeleine, efforts continue with the same determination, commitment and vigour. We believe such perseverance will eventually yield results.

I wonder what results they hope to yield the only thing I can think of .... 'you reap what you sow'

I was about to enlarge on the alleged blue bag topic but the Everton chairman thread has now been locked - not by me I hasten to add. Sorry, make that the thread has now been removed .

The forum is now closed to new member registration.

Really not much point in this is there - wasted years !



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Me too.

Apropos of the blue bag saga crusader, if I remember rightly you said the blue bag in the wardrobe was photographed by Joao Barreiras but it wasn't was it? Sorry if memory fails me, I can't check back on who said what. At least it doesn't feature in the PJ files - this is the closest it gets..

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Granted the image showing an object that could be a bag of some description, does appear elsewhere on the mock-up pages of translations but that could easily have been planted by someone behind the scenes. Not being a photoshopper myself I can't comment on the extent of possibilities but I am aware that photographic material can be easily manipulated.

I think the image is a fake.

no, the picture with the blue bag is part of the pj files, only not under the forensics, but part of kate her arguido interview.

i posted that already yesterday in the jimmy topic about the football team. 

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and a cropped one; 

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this is the ledger it is part of in the files in full;

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it is very common to make as much pictures as you can, we even had to take always two of the most important settings, one with polaroid and one with the standard photo films. and after it had gone into digital, there was no longer reason to keep any rationing in how many you made. it isgotten much easier today, because there is 3d video available and that mean much better view in what you could have missed out on before. 

this is, why it is always nice to not only look to the translations, but also scroll through the full volumes. there is so much original stuff in it too. 

so it are original pj pictures from the same series, but not part of the forensic files. i have looked into the origine of these other pictures too. so i did vaguely remembered where they have been hanging out. so most only have shopped some text and arrows in them.

amaral spoke about it in one of the tv interviews joanna has translated. so it is not only a public founded myth.

but the mystery was for him more about telling they had no such bag, and still the pj photographer was able to shoot the pictures, there are questions about it in both arguido interviews of both mccanns. and it is spoken about in the rogatories, at least in the one of david payne. the rogatories could only ask questions put to them by the pj and the mccanns themselves. that is also possible because that is into the rights of being arguido. 

and there are far more rogatory statements, the most well known are the ones of the tapas 7, but many others have answered questions, most like we would know as character witnesses. janet kennedy was one of these, and their gp at home, and even the cleaner/nannie of the mccanns is part of that series. 

the mccann got permission to take out their belongings, before the forensic team got in. that happened indeed the night of 4 may. only this speaks for itself, they have never been the only target of this investigation. 
and it was already hard enough to investigate it as a crime has happened. being missing is no crime at all, so legally you can do very very little. in the first part of amaral his first book, he talks a bit about that problem, and that they had to tow up the investigation as if it was a abduction at first. 

usually that has little to do with the possible crime you have to investigate, but more with the need of the highest ranking on you can get into a simple story, you need that first remit to get your hands on all possible stuff to work from. it is pretty common that when the evidence of a specific crime is not there for all to agree in a conclusion based on the facts, you need at least something. 
it is always the seriousness of a criminal act , that gives the needed permission to what you can investigate. 
it is also normal that remit will change as soon as there is more info getting in. 

so it is usually just a technical hick-up you have to work around to just being able to start a investigation, because only on a missing child the law has nothing other than the help and assistance task at the side of the police, a lot of people do not know that the police has a dual task, but the help and assistance is not one that is about crime at all. investigating criminal matters is a separate task. 

at least it is very unlikely that a body has been present in 5a for over 48 hours, or such a body after 48 hours had been transported in that bag, you would not have need any kind of dog. 48 hours in a climate with 15 degrees celsius makes that hardly possible without a recognizable smell even for human noses. 

the first 24 hours is possible. and it was something to take a serious look into. first because it was not strange at all to be seen at all times with a heavy bag, and that would mean even still under 20 kg, what even would have been under the limit for free luggage taken on a plane. pdl is mostly tourists, so carrying heavy bags and suitcases is exactly what is very normal for a tourist to do there. also besides the saturday, also the thursday evening was a normal arrival and departure day at the ocean club. also multiple touroperators and private owner rentals in use, so even without the normal days, it would not be something special. 

so yes, when you look into an earlier death all kind of sources ask to be looked into. and there was no so much a history in the why that bag was no longer in that closet, but the mccanns who told they had no such a blue bag. well it could have been even black or a dark grey. you need the original picture to get a better idea about the colour. 

but all who think there has been in 5a for multiple days hidden in that closet or behind the sofa, forgot to think about what bodies do after death. 

the pj had even the video's from the airport security camera's so they would have a pretty good idea what they had in the form of bags, packs and suitcases. these are not part of the files, because the pj could not claim ownership of these. 

and even in all happened at that thursday evening and the days after, such a bag could still have a opportunity of use, because it could be used for just the next step in the travels the body made. 

and that hiding of the body, is what made a lot of people into believing the parents could never have been able to fix that. what is for me a empty plea, because we do not know why that body has to go, maybe it was as simple as thinking that only distance from 5a would make their story more likely, or that trauma on the body also could been afflicted after it or the child left 5a by the action of a stranger/unknown other.

also we also have no idea if it was done to indeed keep the body out of reach for an investigation.

but bodies are hidden in all kind of places, even very near where others walk around them. 
i do know of cases of a body hidden in some council green, not even buried at all, just shoved under some bushes, within 10 meters of the entrance of a block of apartments. also bodies of homeless people and suicides can be out there for weeks without someone takes notice of anything. and that have been adults.

and searching is not so effective as we like to think, and most searches did the best they could, without any formal training, it is usually work with the eyes on foot who you can get. but even well trained and experienced searches do often miss what they are looking for, and it is not as easy as it often looks. most of the common population would certainly the first days have been looking for a still living child. there have been enough properties that have been fenced off. so if the body has been put behind a fence it would have been hard to spot it. 

also it is a much smaller area than often thought too. with all kinds of buildings, many would that early in may still have been empty. 

and we have no idea if it was of importance if that hiding was done to keep it only out of 5a, and when someone had found it, that would be a problem for the mccanns, or not. 
the same with all the media, well that was only from the morning after, but not there that first night, and most only hang around 5a the first days and after that took up watch in pubs and at nighttime they would hardly been around. days have 24 usable  hours when we talk crime. 

also we easily underestimate what people who have to pull such things of, can do with a bit of extra adrenaline. 

and in this case 'the time of the first alarming the world' is still a guess, i think even, that was a much bigger presentation, because no other people noticed that. even the tower missed the first call to the police. 
it is still all i the form of as told. 

there is simply very little in hard facts to put all my eggs in one basket. could it be done only that evening after a fatal accident, yes, i think it is, but it miss still the facts you need to prove it. and my threshold about when something is a fact is quite high. only what cannot be changed in meaning, or substance can be a fact.
and there are very little there, that would uphold in a court case. and that will always be the real exam for all findings.

his statement tells a bit more about him, including his tasks on possible crime scenes.

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Joao Franciso Pascoa Luis Trigo Barreiras

Occupation: PJ Deputy Specialist

Place of work: Criminal Investigation Department Portimao

He is a specialist in the area of Criminology for the PJ and works in the Criminal Investigation department in Portimao.

His professional responsibilities are to carry out examinations at crime scenes, such as detecting finger prints, biological examinations as well as the identification, signalling and collection of other traces. He is also responsible for making photographic reports and sketches. On the date of the events - 3rd May 2007 he was on duty at the Portimao DIC.


he was indeed the person who took the pictures that night. 


also he is named on the report in the forensic pictures taken here;


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the other pictures used in the files are of the same setting in colour tones and there are many more used in other parts of the files, you can find by working to the original dvd prints.


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crusader wrote:Up to now, I can find quite a lot about the blue bag, I'm trying to find out where I heard/read that it was attributed to Joao Barreiras.

Yes I know Joao Barreiras was/is said to be the provenance of the image showing what is thought to be a bag of some description in the wardrobe so you're not wrong there..

This is an extract from Joana Morais' blog, allegedly taken from an interview with Snr Amaral - the blog is now closed to univited guests thus I can't verify it's provenance nor who translated..

and the sports bag is there, inside the closet and is of a darkish blue colour. Thus, those photographs exist, contrary to what anyone can say that they did not own a sports bag – the sports bag was there. A sports bag, even though there wasn't any brand like “Adidas” in the bag, but it was a bag of that kind. So, what happened to that bag, what took place next, other situations ensued relatively to another bag, something that it’s not worth mentioning now here, there are people who also talk about a bag... That cliff area is an important zone, several people talked about it, there were many important events that took place there, events that people saw and suspected, in the golf course area, in the path to the geodesic mark, all in that area. Therefore, it is an area where it is worthwhile to make a search again. But to be searched in the scope of an investigation that is reopened.

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Strange words for a senior police officer.

I can only remember looking in great detail about the topic long ago which only reinforced my view that the image is fake.  Through my eyes the thing in the wardrobe could be anything. whatever without a bag for evidence it's just another speculative angle.