Re: Leave No Stone Unturned

by **Silentscope** 23.11.20 10:39

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What would have been to see, with NO decimal point on the main Kms.
As per NOK 1 and 2 even if someone had mistaken the trip clock for the Kilometres it would still not “add up?”

by **Cammerigal** 23.11.20 11:48

Silentscope Even the PJ demonstrate transcription errors, but the core system data holds the record history and the illogical fingerprints of humanoids wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Did someone here write 93,292.0 Kms or mean 9,329.2 Kms?
Difficult to make out on the Photograph even using image enhancement.

by **Silentscope** 23.11.20 12:52

I am going to trust Martin Grimes’ eyes and his Dogs noses.
9,329

In no car could anyone drive more Kilometres on the trip counter than was on the Odometer. NOK 1 and 2 are still undetermined.

The only other four digit display that could possibly have been a point of confusion is the Radio code. (In the right side of the display)
This would remain the same however, unless the Radio was changed.

Still does not “figure” does it?

by **Silentscope** 24.11.20 21:23

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Gerry dropping Kate off before her Questioning by the PJ in PORTIMAO.
07.08.07 11:00

by **sharonl** 24.11.20 22:56

Silentscope wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Gerry dropping Kate off before her Questioning by the PJ in PORTIMAO.
07.08.07 11:00

Is that the same Kate who "couldn't make love to Gerry"? big grin

What happened to the Kate who was so keen on doing the laundry that she washed a small stain out of a pyjama top whilst on holiday and the curtains in the apartment? Looking at the mess on this pair, Gerry in particular, I would say that she got very bored with that particular past time. Or maybe she's just taken an interest in another form of laundering.

by Guest 25.11.20 0:34

Kate McCann and Gerry McCann in Pria Da Luz, Portugal. 06/09/2007

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Alamy stock photo archive

by **Silentscope** 25.11.20 9:03

Story No.: 535477
Restrictions:
Duration:00:02:11:04
Source: AP TELEVISION
Dateline: Portimao - 6 September 2007
Date: 06/09/2007 19:45 PM
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PDL, FARO, HUELVA, PORTIMAO, VILA DO BISPO, BUDENS, PDL just for comparison purposes only, 11,329 Kms is past Moscow and back with Kms to spare!

Still able to join some dots so far. Just need more information.

by **Silentscope** 25.11.20 10:58

And back again (in a different vehicle) the next day 07 Sep 07. No Hire car to be seen.

Report by Sky News Martin Brunt.

by **Silentscope** 27.11.20 12:11

Sky News report published 19.08.2012
Date and time of filming unknown.
Location unconfirmed.

by kaz 27.11.20 18:57

Apropos nothing in particular I was vacuuming my bedroom today and as I am inclined to do, my mind wandered here , there and everywhere. The Madeleine McCann case is never far from my thoughts and I realised with some dismay that this case is never now likely to be ‘solved.’ Whoever the criminals in this case are, they are more than likely now never to be apprehended and found guilty.

It’s sad.

In my heart of hearts I can’t believe the paedophile hypotheses. Maybe there is an element of cognitive dissonance in that disbelief but I Just can’t bring myself to entertain the awful stories one sees and hears on the internet. Obviously there is an element of child abuse out there but surely not to the extent we are being led to believe? Surely it’s an anomaly not a norm?

Whilst I was vacuuming away I remembered when my grandchildren were small and used to come and stay with me. The fun we had! I could be a child again and there was no one to say, ‘’ Grow up! ‘’

After they’d returned to their parents I’d clear up the mess . Out would come the HENRY and it always used to amaze me at the amount of HAIR my beautiful grandchildren shed . I was at the time very dark haired and they were blondes so theirs was instantly recognisable.

This led me on to thinking about the McCanns. The lack of physical evidence of Madeleine iin the apartment is extraordinary. Everybody who has been on a package holiday knows that the daily cleaners will inevitably forget to sweep under the bed or at the most give a cursory swipe of the broom. It’s no big deal.

Madeleine appeared to enjoy the bobbles and bows and the little lady routine so the hair brushing I would imagine would be a daily occurrence.

The lack of hair strands in the apartment point to Madeleine not having spent much time there and a case can be built on that. For me it points to someone deliberately cleaning the apartment so that there was no visible evidence remaining . Why would that be? Surely it has to be because hair strands tell a very comprehensive story of nutrition and drug intake. The possible incriminating evidence that would point the finger at the real culprits?

All speculation on my part of course.

It just saddens me that I don’t think we’ll ever know the truth now. We all have our suspicions and theories but as time passes a sense of hopelessness sets in. Will we ever know?

by **Silentscope** 27.11.20 19:38

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How does anyone drive EXACTLY 750 Kms?
Then drive EXACTLY 2000 Kms?
Between 03.07 and 01.09 drive 1 Km?
Then go from 9329 Kms BACKWARDS TO 5866Kms?

Not speculating of course... thinking

by **Silentscope** 28.11.20 13:35

8 Sep 07 - Hire car still on the driveway at the rented Villa.

Story No.: 535741
Restrictions:
Duration:00:02:12:20
Source: AP TELEVISION
Dateline: Portimao/Praia da Luz - 8 September 2007
Date: 08/09/2007 19:02 PM
Published 21 July 2015

by **Silentscope** 30.11.20 10:55

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In answer to the question “how does anybody drive exactly a round number of Kilometres “ I have worked out the following analysis.

Points to Note:

The halfway point of the formulation resulted in Zero Kms.

01.09.07 Kms 5866 Hire papers definitely wrong as the Dogs inspection shows. The PJ and Martin Grimes recorded 9329 Kms.

The Arguidos were not present at the Dogs inspection (but were shown the Video) as far as I am aware they did not know that the Kilometres had been recorded until the PJ FILES were published.

The Kilometres marked in Yellow are those required to maintain the Formula at the rate BEFORE the Dogs inspection.

Column E - 750, 2000, 2750, 3500, 4750 are the accumulated Kilometres before the Dogs inspection when the true Kilometres were noted by the PJ.
All nice “round” numbers. Coincidences?

AFTER the Dogs inspection they would have had to drive an extra 2563 Kms in order to get back on track to meet the 11,329 Km total.

I invite any sensible comments please.

by Guest 01.12.20 15:51

I've had a moment to look at this car rental business in more detail.

If you use the chart produced by Jeanne D'Arc at the foot of the following page as a guide, all becomes quite clear.

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I can't vouch for the accuracy of the chart but it will make little or no difference.

27th May 2007 - 3,114 km. Booked in and booked out.

03th June 2007 - 3,864 km. Booked in and booked out.

03rd July 2007 - 5,864 km. Booked in and booked out.
02nd August 2007 - 5,865 km. Booked in, no entry for booking out.
01st September 2007 - 5,866 km. Booked in and booked out.

23rd September 2007 - 14,443 km. Returned to rental company.

As an aside, the McCanns left Portugal on Sunday 9th September 2007. The Renault Scenic was returned to the company on 23rd September 2007. There is no way of knowing how many km were clocked-up during that period - nor indeed by whom..

The most likely explanation would be, the McCanns hired the car for a three month period at the beginning of July 2007. The kilometerage shown on the hire documentation is an estimate based on the first full months rental, hence only one km increase per rental period from 3rd July/1st September 2007 as shown on the filed documentation. You willalso note the time in and out is the same for every rental period, another indication thevehicle wasn't physically returned at the beginning of every month, only automatically re-booked.

They could easily have driven more than the 2,000 km per month. 2,000 km in one month is not excessive.

2,000 km per month = 500 km per week = 70 km per day - approximately. The distance between Luz and Faro (the airport) is approx 21 km, a round trip of 42 km. That's over half of any one days travel distance.

Not excessive.

It's not possible to determine how many km were covered at any specific time between the initial hire on 27th May and return on 23rd September 2007

by **Silentscope** 01.12.20 17:24

Thanks Verdi, the Chart by Jd’Arc is not in question, as I used the same points to fill in the gaps by calculating backwards.

The only time that the Kilometres were recorded properly between the initial hire and return was at the PJ and Martin Grimes inspection on 6/7.08.07. at 9329 Kms.

In return,

Is this usual for Budget to calculate in this manner or not?
If not, who did the back calculations I wonder? (I can believe Budget would not want to upset their now most famous Customers and risk any bad publicity.) But as you say, they were already gone!

They certainly have not helped the PJ’s investigation by doing it in this manner. If the Vehicle had been checked in and out physically and properly it might have revealed more. But at least we now know that the Kilometres are fiction, and how they were arrived at.

The 1 Km jump in figures is explained in the Formulation because the halfway distance of 11329 is 7221.5 - so they had to either write it as such (which would have explained a lot) or add a whole number.
5865 and 5866 = 1 Km or 2 x 0.5 Kms.

Either way, the time of Hiring to the point in time where the Vehicle was picked up at the Villa to be inspected by the Dogs who detected what they did, are the only known points in time that matter really.

What happened after that was that they did not confiscate the Vehicle and seal it as Evidence. That really was “bungled” I am sad to say.

Still, one less mystery now how these figures were arrived at.

Maths doesn’t lie either!

by Guest 01.12.20 20:57

Silentscope wrote:Thanks Verdi, the Chart by Jd’Arc is not in question, as I used the same points to fill in the gaps by calculating backwards.

The only time that the Kilometres were recorded properly between the initial hire and return was at the PJ and Martin Grimes inspection on 6/7.08.07. at 9329 Kms.

Only time recorded properly?

I've provided what I believe to be an adequate explanation, I wasn't using the chart as a base document or questioning the content, it's just easier to work with than the poor quality car rental documents copied on the PJ files.

Apart from that, I haven't the vaguest idea what you're talking about - nothing new there!. Why complicate an otherwise simple explanation to account for the number of kilometres clocked-up?

Look at it another way. Between the initial hire date of 27th May through to the final return date of 23rd September approximately 11,319 kilometres were registered. Divide the kilometres by the number of days rented, it's approximately 96 kilometres per day - still not excessive, back and forth to the airport twice in one day would account for the kilometres registered.

That estimation of course doesn't account for specific days, like one when the vehicle was used more than another. Plus there were two other named drivers and as I've already said, the period between the McCanns departure and the return of the vehicle to base, about two weeks later. The custodian could have traveled across Europe in that relatively short period.

I don't think it matters one iota.

The only important factor is the alerts by the specialist trained dogs, Eddie and Keela, seconded to Portugal with their handler Martin Grime.

Keep your eyes

on the ball !

by **Silentscope** 02.12.20 10:43

11329
9329
5866
3864
3114

The Ball rolls nicely down the slope that Someone made...
The questions remain:

Was this method from Budget itself or someone else’s idea?
Why would Logos and Names be missing on the Paerwork or in the wrong format?
Are these records false?

Because the Kilometres driven for real between dates obviously are.

by **Silentscope** 03.12.20 19:14

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03.06.07 3864 Kms
03.07.07 5864 Kms
7864 Kms shortly before the Dogs inspection 06/07.08.07
03.08.07 9864 Kms would have been the next Logical step.
06.08.07 9329 Kms recorded in the Dogs search in PORTIMAO.

Three days later than expected by Budget and 535 Kms short of the usual 2000 Kms a Month.

So how did someone KNOW that they should add 2,000 Kms to 9,329 to make 11,329?

And not 9,864 + 2,000 = 11,864 Kms total?

Who can drive EXACTLY 2,000 Kms in three weeks?

Or was it just a great guess? 11,864 - 9,329 = 2,535 Kms difference.

Another NOK, and not really believable.

The average Kms per day BEFORE the Dogs inspection was (6215 : 72) = 86.31
The average Kms per day AFTER the Dogs inspection was (2000 : 51)
= 39.21
Total average over the entire Hire period was (11,329 : 123)
= 92.10 Kms per day.

Explanations will be welcomed.

by ROSA 03.12.20 21:43

How long was the car hired for ?

by Guest 04.12.20 0:04

Silentscope wrote:Explanations will be welcomed.

Well, you might start by explaining where the numbers you keep quoting come from - it certainly ain't from the PJ investigation documentation.

I seriously think you should reconsider your information source because, whoever it is guiding you, appears to be playing you and playing the forum into the bargain, which is not recommended.

At your leisure.

by **Silentscope** 04.12.20 10:49

Verdi wrote:
Silentscope wrote:Explanations will be welcomed.

Well, you might start by explaining where the numbers you keep quoting come from - it certainly ain't from the PJ investigation documentation.

I seriously think you should reconsider your information source because, whoever it is guiding you, appears to be playing you and playing the forum into the bargain, which is not recommended.

At your leisure.

The numbers in Boxes on the Graph are those taken from the PJ Files and the Paperwork.
The numbers on the bottom line are back calculations using the reverse of the true Kilometres minus 14443.
14443 - 11329 = 3114 or zero Kms driven. 5864 - 3864 = 2000 Kms driven that Month.

This gives underneath the Kilometres on the paperwork, the total accumulated Kilometres driven between those points.

Previously the expected Averaged line was expected to be completely straight between 3114 and 14443 total.

The “real” 9,329 Kms recorded by the PJ should not be anywhere on this line. It should be below it.

It appears that Budget had used a Contract with the McCanns which probably involves giving them up to 2,000 Kms free per Month of hire. Whether a “Month” is classed as 28, 30 or 31 days needs to be confirmed still.

Fact remains Budget should have carried on from their own figures, and not been able to know the Kilometres at the Dogs inspection. Judicial secrecy and the PJ Files were not yet public knowledge.

If the real Kilometres showing on the instrument panel were 11, 329 when the vehicle was picked up.

How did someone drive EXACTLY 2,000 Kilometres in the last weeks of the hire?

Nobody is playing me. I am not playing the Forum either. I am saying the numbers do not “add up” right now.

I cannot make these figures up. If they are wrong, show me where, and I will alter them.

There must be a good explanation for these apparent differences.

3114, 3864, 5864, 7864, 9864 (9329) 11329,11864 obviously NOT actually physically driven (apart from 9329.)
0. 750. 2000. 2000. 2000 2000 expected by Budget by their contract.

They obviously were driving physically less Kilometres per period of Rental than were foreseen by contract.
It seems likely that after the first week of Hire they were put on a different contract maybe?
This means of course no one would be able to check the real Kilometres driven Monthly.

Members are invited to check for themselves the information above and supply any other explanation.?

by **Silentscope** 04.12.20 10:54

ROSA wrote:How long was the car hired for ?

I made it 123 days
72 days before the Dogs inspection.
51 days afterwards.

Feel free to double check.

I will alter any mistake.

by Guest 04.12.20 12:16

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I'm none the wiser, I'm beginning to wonder if even you know what you're talking about.

The figures to be seen on the PJ files are those repeatedly identified and taken from the car rental copies. As far as I can see, any other numbers you quote are pure invention on your part.

A plausible, indeed the most likely, explanation for what some seem to think erroneous has already been provided on this thread.

As I said some while ago, you need to know exactly how the vehicle rental company and associates operate. I think you should know, car rental firms operating in tourist areas tend to be a trifle slapdash and they have serious competition from all sides. They also have vehicles parked idle for weeks on end - even if the vehicle fleet is stationed elsewhere.

Here it's worth taking into consideration the various scams that folk get up to when working in a tourist resort - it's an eye opener! Even the diplomatic corp have been known to swell their monthly income with a little side earner.

Ever seen a desk in hotel reception hiring out cars - I have, it's common place.

Still, far be it for me to get in the way of a well intentioned project, albeit seemingly pointless.

As you were!

by **Silentscope** 04.12.20 13:55

@ Verdi

The point is that it has now become clear that;

1. The distances quoted on the Paperwork are NOT those physically driven by the McCanns and others during the periods stated.

2. The first weeks Hire had a MAXIMUM of 750 Kms on the Contract.

3. After that, the Contracts appear to offer 2,000 Kms per Month.

4. At the end of Sept Budget would have allowed for 11, 864 Kms

5. I do not think Budget were informed by the PJ as to the Kms at the Dogs inspection because otherwise they would not have rolled on the obviously false 5866 Kms afterwards. No Odometer runs backwards.
But I could be wrong.

6. So how did EXACTLY the right amount of 2,000 Kilometres end up on the Odometer? The difference between what Budget expected and what actually was recorded is probably 535 Kms by my calculations.

9,864 - 9,329 = 535 Kms

Possibilities seem to be so far;

Either someone drove exactly 2000 Kms in three weeks. (Ja,ja)

Someone who knew the PJ 9,329 Kms added 2000 Kms to them.

Or it has something to do with the difference between the expected Kilometres contracted by Budget and the timing between those Dates and the Dogs inspection? Maybe the Dates are “squeezing” the Data?

I am sure it will work out somehow.

by **crusader** 04.12.20 14:53

I wonder if it's got anything to do with, after a certain amount of Kms the car has to go back to the main depot at the end of the lease?

The rental company did offer another car to the McCann's or they could buy the one they were using before the rental contract ended, which they declined.

Do the car rental company only want cars with up to a certain mileage on their books.

Why did the car rental agency ask for the car back, then let them keep it until the end of the contract?

They were quite within their rights just to take them a replacement car.

by **Silentscope** 04.12.20 17:24

crusader wrote:I wonder if it's got anything to do with, after a certain amount of Kms the car has to go back to the main depot at the end of the lease?

Unfortunately not relevant for the Calculations. Sorry

The rental company did offer another car to the McCann's or they could buy the one they were using before the rental contract ended, which they declined.

True, they were told if they wanted to use it further they had the option to buy it, they declined.

Do the car rental company only want cars with up to a certain mileage on their books.

Possibly, no one would want to rent out a unreliable vehicle.

Why did the car rental agency ask for the car back, then let them keep it until the end of the contract?

It beats me why the PJ just did not impound it as potential Evidence!

They were quite within their rights just to take them a replacement car.

Obviously a decision from Budget, but why not indeed!

Other things need to be taken into account as well.
What is viewed as a Month as per Budgets contracts? 28 or 30 days?
There was never any “Excess Kilometres” billed so nothing definitive is recorded.

It is only possible by back Calculations to hazard an educated guess as to what would have been the maximum amount they could have driven at several periods of time so far.

I am still working on “Mission Impossible “....

thumbsup

by **Silentscope** 04.12.20 20:09

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A mistake has crept in brought on by looking at the wrong column.

Point 6
2000 Kms should read 5114 Kms as per the bottom line.

Updated:

122 days total Hire
73 days before the Dogs investigation
49 days afterwards

Averages:

6215 kms : 73 days = 85.13 Km/p day
5114 Kms : 49 days = 104.36
11329 Kms : 122 days = 92.86

by **Silentscope** 06.12.20 13:06

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750, 2000 are the number of MAXIMUM KMS on the Contract

Not the Actual Kms physically driven in the Hired Vehicle.

If they had kept the 03.10.07 they would have still only driven probably 11864 Kms and still not gone over the Monthly limit.

The McCanns left Portugal on the 09:30 Flight from Faro on 09.09.07.

The Vehicle was returned to Budget in Lagos on 23.09.07.

All figures are Calculated backwards and therefore ESTIMATES.

No deductions have been made for any known Kilometres driven.

by **crusader** 06.12.20 13:54

I can see the Kms have been buggered about with by somebody, the car hire firm?

What I'm struggling with is, what difference does it make to Madeleines demise?

by Guest 06.12.20 14:04

I'm presuming the purpose of the exercise to be a way of finding when, why and where Madeleine McCann's remains are located.

That must be on the assumption that the Renault Scenic was used to transport a body after death - tenuous to say the least.

Aside from that, impossible task to determine the Renault Scenic's history during the McCann hire period.

I don't believe there is any evidence to suggest the kilometres clocked-up have been adjusted - by anyone!

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