How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged"

Autumn wrote:No, Soulthief, there has been much discussion about the 'last photo' on various forums and I fall into the photoshopped camp - you have to wonder why it wasn't produced until Gerry returned from a visit to Rothley 3 wks later.

From Missing Madeleine Forum


Russell O'Brien Part Statement about the photo of Madeleine that was printed off,and that the red top photo was taken from Kate's camera.

Russell OBrien Rog Interview
Part Statement date 10.4 08.

1578 “’And a female member of staff possibly from MARK WARNER’?”
Reply “Yeah, she was certainly, yeah, she was, she was English, you know, clearly not a, not a local. Erm, next it says ‘We tried to find a picture of Madeleine’, I mean, it wasn’t so much struggling to get the picture, it was struggling to find the means of printing it. We had the cam,we had Kate’s camera, erm, the, what we were trying to do is find a picture that actually gave a good likeness, rather than just being any old shot it actually had, you know, a close-up of her, of her face. There were a lot of pictures on the camera but they were, you know, just at home and on, you know, in profile and things like that”.
1578 “Yes”.
Reply “So we had, we”.
1578 “So to the words ‘we were struggling’, ‘but we were struggling’ need to be removed?”
Reply “Erm, yeah, ‘we tried to find’, I think, it’s fairly irrelevant, I think, you know”.
1578 “So?”
Reply “’We were trying to find a picture but we’, you know, delete ‘but we were struggling’. ‘Kate checked the camera’. Erm, I don’t actually remember saying that Jane had taken the picture of Madeleine at the tennis lesson, in any case, it wasn’t that day it was the day before that Madeleine and E**a were in the group, erm, on a different day doing the tennis. I think, you know, it’s fairly, I think it’s fairly irrelevant anyway, I don’t think Jane did have a picture from the tennis lesson. So I think that that could all go, I think that ‘Jane had taken a picture of Madeleine at the tennis lesson that day’ could all go and then put, the main thing here was, erm, ‘We were searching for a printer and Kat, one of the Nannies, said she had a printer’. I’m pretty sure it was Kat. So this paragraph’s quite”.
1578 “So we keep in ‘We couldn’t print it off’?”
Reply “’We needed to print it off’ that, that was the sticking issue, we had pictures but we needed to get in somewhere to print them and I think people had asked at, at, at the reception down at Ocean Club”.
1578 “So the pictures of Madeleine?”
Reply “On a digital camera”.
1578 “That were printed off?”
Reply “Yeah”.
1578 “Came from Kate’s camera”.
Reply “From Kate’s camera as far as I can remember, yeah. And the main issue was trying to find somewhere to print it”.
1578 “What about if we say ‘Kate checked her camera and found some pictures’?”
Reply “Yeah, yeah, or ‘Kate’s camera was checked’, I don’t think Kate was in no, in no state whatsoever to check her camera”.
1578 “Okay. So ‘We tried to find a picture of Madeleine’?”
Reply “Yeah”.
1578 “’Kate’s camera was checked’?”
Reply “Umm, ‘And Kat or one of the other Nannies went to their flat to retrieve a printer or something that would connect to a printer and then the pictures were printed in the office off the small reception portal’, there’s a little office in there”.
1578 “Okay. But ‘Kate or one of the Nannies’?”
Reply “Yeah, ‘Kat or one of the Nannies’, I mean, Kat was there and Leanne was there, but whether it was actually their printer or lead, I’m not sure.
1578 “Did you have any photo of Madeleine in your possession”?
Reply “Erm we got a photo of Madeleine later on but this is two hours later, erm”.
1578 “So who gave it to you”?
Reply “Okay well certain, I’m not quite sure what the, the initial, the question made it sound like whoever had one in our possession anyway, I didn’t, erm we got a, we erm, after a portion of my searches, we got hold of erm Kate’s camera, err looked through the digital cam to try and find a picture of Madeleine reasonably recently.

End part Statement ROB.

who the hell did O'Brien think he was telling them it wasnt relevant? What a cheek, so clearly this nanny and her printer was to explain how the picture was printed in Portugal to spite the type and ink not being in use in Portugal. Was the printer tested to see if it was the kind used?

theolivebranch wrote:

kikoraton wrote:I have no doubt that the various photos of Madeleine were manipulated by the McC Team in order to convey whatever effect they desired, and to sow confusion.
If I'm a bit silent nowadays, it's because I am creating computer graphics to support the evidence we have gathered with respect to the phone calls (and silences!), and the creche records. These will be presented to the appropriate police force by myself and someone who has been working with me, assuming that the said force agrees to meet us, in the very early part of the New Year.
It would probably take me only another week to get it all ready, but given the weather and the current silly season, there's no point in hurrying it. We can afford to let Team Mccann stew for another month or so.

Hello Kikoraton, may I commend you on your tenacity. You and the others with the skills and sticking power to keep going, despite the slings and arrows, deserve our utmost support. Sincere thanks.

Kiloraton, Stella and all wlho have continued to dig into this, your work here is much appreciated and would just like to say well done and thanks very much

Thank you for your kind words, olive, aiyoyo, your judgeship and autumn. I hope I haven't omitted anyone - if I have, you know my thanks are aimed at you as well.

May I join in the sincere thanks to kikoraton for his extended and thorough analysis of the phone records and subsequently the creche records. I haven't forgotten how much opposition he encountered in his efforts to do so. It was and is for me an example to stand for ones beliefs and to disregard all unjust personal attacks that were aimed at kikoraton from
the moment he was discovering patterns that might shed a light on what was happening in Pdl that spring in 2007.
I am just the flowergirl but it got my bloodpressure up to àn unequalled level. A lesser man would have stopped. Not him. And then what à relief on this forum to see freedom of research reinstored and how this thinking out loud was bearing fruit in so short à timespan. Opposed to warnings I saw more negative attitudes at the" don't start about that again" forum while here in all openness the thread did not evoke
any below the belt attacks to this researcher personally.
One more thing. Would not it be worth the exercise to research the photograps involved in this case. maybe that would shed some more light on what happened and what is still going on right now? In other forums it was inpossible to discuss them fully, threads were stopped or derailed the same way crèche and phone threads were.
That's it, thanks kiko, thanks hideho, Stella, judgemental, alison and all others, well done!
parapono

Thank you, parapono, for your words of support. I'm not quite that person you describe - more an old(ish) geezer with a bee in his bonnet. I did try to post a longer appreciation and explanation of why I am here, but just before I could post it - a certain small cat jumped on the keyboard, and I lost it. Not only that, but she has caused the print on this site to go very, very tiny.. She did the same last week when I was looking at booking.com, and caused the print to become absolutely giant. And now I am such a numpty that I don't know how to undo the damage. Anybody got an idea?

kiko,

My cat does that all the time . My screen is a touchscreen so when she jumps up on the desk and her tail brushes past the screen the print jumps from large to tiny. It is usually because the little magnifying glass in the corner, and the 100 per cent icon has been changed to a smaller or larger percentage. Just click on it and bring it back to 100 per cent. On this computer I have to set it on 150 because the print is tiny on the usual 100 per cent, but usually it should be 100. Don't know if this will solve the problem?

Cats/kittens, don't you just love em. We have our grandkitten, not grandchild, that will never happen. He is here for 2 months and within 10 days has brought the place to a move all ornaments, continuously wipe surfaces with antibacterial wipes type of home. But he is gorgeous.
To get back to the issues in hand. Parapono, I agree 100% with your post about this site and the ability to discuss, disagree, not have to be one of the 100s of posts posters to be accepted as a contributor, and I would agree that certainly there are some issues that could, imo, do with a more indepth examination, as you so rightly say the photographs, particulaly of PDL and the UK ones from Xmas 2006.

Hey, thanks candyfloss! I had tried the "wrench" symbol in the corner, but then I overlooked "zoom"! So I am a numpty, see?? Thanks for drawing it to my attention - I'm now on 120% and finding it so much easier.

Reply “So we had, we”.
1578 “So to the words ‘we were struggling’, ‘but we were struggling’ need to be removed?”
Reply “Erm, yeah, ‘we tried to find’, I think, it’s fairly irrelevant, I think, you know”.
1578 “So?”

Imagine telling ROB to remove 'but we were struggling'. I thought the whole point is to let interviewee talk freely without interruption and without suggestion, that is how police can catch them out when they trip up. Sometimes you have to wonder at the professionalism of the UK police. Are they trying to help the T7 by preventing them from tripping up. I don't want to believe all the police members were like call me 'Stu, Prior (sp).

Unless all of each interviewee's statements were place side by side its so difficult to spot or remember their inconsistency.
But they sure err and umnn and you know,...ing ,,errr a lot indicating they were very careful and selective with their words before utterance, and wasn't spantaneous at all. In other word, they were very guided during the interview.

Reading the rog the police weren't asking them a lot of questions. The questions were very narrow based leaving one the impression the police were waiting for them to trip up on previously covered issue so the suggestion for them to omit words seems rather bizzare unless it was a clever ploy to emphasize ROB's strange choice of words.

A more normal thing for any people in the same situation to do would be for them to provide various photos to police for them to decide the most appropriate one to circulate as last photo. Not the other way round. Here in this case, the group was doing the deciding. On top of that, sometimes police may want to circulate a variety of photos to jostle people's memory not just one last mug shot. Anyway the pool's photo wasn't even that, mug shot I mean.
I find it strange not only the group were deciding on behalf of the mccanns, but they were making the decision on suitability as 'last photo' from a very narrow selection of photos meaning few photos were taken of the children on holiday; another strange behaviour of that lot.. Most parents try to capture as many photos of their children on holiday as possible especially at that tender age. But hey to each one's own...that lot were there for themselves as evidenced. .It was their holiday, not the children's. The children were accessories brought along maybe because they couldn't or wouldn't pay for babysitter in UK.

This last photo issue is very circumspect with two schools of thought. I cant decide what to think of the photoshop suspicion. It is such a risky thing to do and if caught the motive will become immediately questionable so one has to wonder are the mccanns and friends that brazen or stupid. Or is the photo genuine? The image of maddie there does look younger than three-year but depending on angle image can vary. What I find odd is the children including GM were fully clothed at the swimming pool and there was no one around, as if it was a their own private pool. None of the children were playing with the water or messing around.. It's as though they were placed there to pose specifically for the photo-shot almost like a photoshoot session for a spread or something like that. Very superficial and artificial is my first thoughts on seeing the photo, almost surreal.

In all my life taking my children on sun holiday no matter what age level, they were in swimming gears and messing around and never just sitting down looking picture perfect and on good behavior with hat still intact. The distance in between them was also interesting to note;. They seem disconnected one from another. None of them seem in rapport with one another. It's as if GM was a bored observer of someone else's children who happened to be nearby and those children didnt belong to him because he was neither seated right next to them or holding any of them or playing with any of them. They were so detached one from another. The contrast of expression of photo subject faces was also interesting - bored, disinterested, lethargy all comes to mind bearing Maddie who was smiling but not at anything in particular. She seems to be only one finding something amusing while the rest in the photo wasnt even aware of their surroundings or photographer.

Well that's my observation of the last photo. Cant decide on the photoshop but it was a superficial as superficial can be photo.
I cant get over it, especially not when it was meant as last photo, just like I cant get over 'devastated' mccanns on Maddie 4th b/d photo.

Good points, aiyoyo. Together with the three-week delay before the "last photo" was produced, you've given us a whole new raft of stuff to think about.

How heavy a person leans on the paper when they write is quite significant. When looking at the creche records in the process, as opposed to elsewhere. The weight of the pen is very similar IMO with these people.

The signature that reads as Russell O'Brien and Ainne Naylor, side by side
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Also the ones here for Russell O'Brien and Kate Healey
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Hello Stella,
Niether of your links above work for me, having tried on both IE and Firefox?

Hi Listener

I do not know what's wrong with those links. They are from pages from Pamalam's site in appensos 1. I will try to get another link, failing that, will give instructions where to look. Be back in a mo.

This is a direct link to Pamalam's site


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



If you cannot access that link, you may need to go directly to Pamalam's site. At the bottom, click on Processo volume 01a, then look for the pages marked 105 to 108.



I seem to remember there was a problem with that site in the early days and accessing some pages, which Pamalam had to change. Maybe those pages still need to be changed.

The signature that reads as Russell O'Brien and Ainne Naylor, side by side
look at page 106 for the 30th April


The ones for Russell O'Brien and Kate Healey
look at page 109 for the 2nd May

Thanks Stella,

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

That works [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] - bookmarked!

Warm greetings and thoughts to all of you. We hope you will have a happy and peaceful time, whether with families, or friends. But especially thinking of those who are alone or sick.
We can look forward to the final push to bring the Doctors McCann to justice, early in 2011!

I'll drink to that kiko....welcome back [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I will drink to that too - keep going kiko.

Oh yes - no question of stopping now!!
Tomorrow I shall start to warm up and do a little gargling, then in the first quarter of 2011 I shall be ready for the first night of the opera. I trust you chorus members will be in full voice by then?
Errrrr.....I forget which opera we were going to perform, for the McCs and their chums. Anyone???

Cheers Kiko

Heres hoping the final curtain will soon fall on the McCanns' macabre pantomime.

I think I've got Midas lined up to sing "Hell's vengeance" from The Magic Flute. That's if she's hasn't gone all mezzo-soprano after all her seasonal celebrations.

Der Schauspieldirektor - just for Gerry.

(It is a comedy.)

Or you could make up your own, and call it Die Entführung aus dem Algarve. There is a nice music-hall song called The Laughing Policeman for a grand finale.

Blimey kangdang, if that was Midas, she's certainly undergone a painful change.
Excellent ideas, shibb! We'll do a show consisting of great numbers such as those, rather than a full opera, which might be a little taxing. What might Daoud delight us with, I wonder? And Tony Bennett?
We might even introduce a pantomime element (hiss.....she's behind you!) by inviting some of more questionable loyalty, from other forums. Preciousramotswe sings........................oh, I don't know. Maybe not.

@ kikoratan

With all the government involvement do you think they will allow the reopening of this case? They shelved it for a reason and said they will only reopen it if there is new evidence...the creche records isn't new evidence as it's all in the police files. Maybe the PJ are as aware as you that the records look faked?

I do hope all your work (and that of others) won't be in vain.

Yes, it's possible that the police of both nations believe they have exhausted the evidence of the Creche Records. But we have covered a lot of ground here, including discovering the identities of four possible "persons of interest" (two couples living in London). One of those couples, at least, has a lot of explaining to do. So has Gerry, who as far as I'm aware was not questioned about the identical handwriting or the imitated signatures.
I should be happy to demonstrate these facets of the case to the PJ, any time from February onwards.

Did someone say it was time for a sing-song ? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


I've been saving this one for a special occassion [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


Jailhouse Rock

The warden threw a party in a PORTUGUESE jail.
The TAPAS band was there and they began to wail.
The band was jumpin' and the joint began to swing.
You should've heard those LOCKED UP jailbirds sing.
Let's rock, everybody, let's rock.
Everybody in the McCANN cell block
was dancin' to the Jailhouse Rock.

DAVID PAYNE played the tenor saxophone,
LYING JANE was blowin' on the slide trombone.
The drummer boy from EXETER went crash, boom, bang,
the whole rhythm section was the Carter Ruck Gang.
Let's rock, everybody, let's rock.
Everybody in the whole McCANN cell block
was dancin' to the Jailhouse Rock.

CLARENCE said to KATE
"You're the cutest jailbird I ever did see.
I sure would be delighted with your company,
come on and do the Jailhouse Rock with me."
Let's rock, everybody, let's rock.
Everybody in the whole McCANN cell block
was dancin' to the Jailhouse Rock.

sad OLD GERRY was a sittin' on a block of stone
way over in the corner weepin' all alone.
The warden said, "Hey, buddy, don't you be no square.
If you can't find YOUR SWINGING partner use a wooden chair."
Let's rock, everybody, let's rock.
Everybody in the whole McCANN block
was dancin' to the Jailhouse Rock.

Shifty O’BRIEN said to LYING JANE, "For Heaven's sake,
no one's lookin', now's our chance to make a break."
LYING JANE turned to O’BRIEN and said, "Nix nix,
I wanna stick around to see BUNDLEMAN’S hips."
Let's rock, everybody, let's rock.
Everybody in the whole McCANN cell block
was dancin' to the Jailhouse Rock.

ufercoffy wrote:

With all the government involvement do you think they will allow the reopening of this case? They shelved it for a reason and said they will only reopen it if there is new evidence...the creche records isn't new evidence as it's all in the police files. Maybe the PJ are as aware as you that the records look faked? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

We all have to have a little faith here ufercoffy. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


We no longer have the Labour Government or Gordon Brown as organ grinders.

Your right, the creche records are not new evidence. But if they missed what they contain and it is brought to their attention, then technically it is new evidence.

The big question is, are they already aware of it ?? The answer has to be no. They would not be included in the files for everyone to see if they even remotely thought that they were part of the cover-up !!!!

It's just a matter of time now [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Here's to justice in 2011 [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Stella wrote:

ufercoffy wrote:

With all the government involvement do you think they will allow the reopening of this case? They shelved it for a reason and said they will only reopen it if there is new evidence...the creche records isn't new evidence as it's all in the police files. Maybe the PJ are as aware as you that the records look faked? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

We all have to have a little faith here ufercoffy. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


We no longer have the Labour Government or Gordon Brown as organ grinders.

Your right, the creche records are not new evidence. But if they missed what they contain and it is brought to their attention, then technically it is new evidence.

The big question is, are they already aware of it ?? The answer has to be no. They would not be included in the files for everyone to see if they even remotely thought that they were part of the cover-up !!!!

It's just a matter of time now [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Here's to justice in 2011 [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Or maybe they are aware of it and just haven't made anything public. They did hold some things back.

Anyway, I wish Kikoraton all the best with the project and very well done. If you need any more help just let me know and I will do what I can.