How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged"

Hello - I`ve just joined after helping Kiko Raton with background research on MCF.

The Naylors at the Ocean Club are Robert and Ainne Naylor. Robert is a banker. The Naylor at LRI is Andrew Ross Naylor so not the same one. The child of Robert and Ainne is Elizabeth Rose

The girl mentioned in Joana Morais`s blog ( referred to earlier on this thread by Kiko R) is Madeline ( not Madeleine) Elizabeth Naylor born in Lancashire.

I`ve been trying to link some of these Naylors together but without success, Naylor being a more common surname than I had anticipated.

I`m not aware that there are any statements from Robert and Ainne in the files.

Kiko R - and probably Stella - have more info on this but there is also some evidence of an owner called Naylor being at the complex at the same time.

Hope this helps.

Thank you Alison, that's put that little niggle to bed [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Welcome, and thanks for joining us [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Alison and welcome.

Thanks for the information [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

kikoraton wrote:Fascinating contributions above!!
Tony - yes, I think GM was crafty in little adjustments, like switching between 24 hour clock and normal, but not clever enough by a long way.
cheshirecat: I'm very glad you found that photo of AN. It always helps to build the complete picture - literally!! Now we just need to find an example of her true signature. I didn't want to say too much about a 3yo, now a seven-year-old, but perhaps I should have said that the Madeline we found lived in the NW of England. So an Elizabeth at that London school might well be EN, but we're not looking for a MEN there. Same surname, though.
Once i had found the handwriting and false signature in the creche records, it came as a shock to realise the implications for possible pre-planning.

Well, thank god somebody else agrees with me. In fact I think it was preplanned right as far back as the birth of the twins. Why was Gerry not in PdL to enjoy himself?

I have at times before not wanted to go on holidays, but i must admit never aired them like Gerry did, especially to someone recording you. I do not buy into the death before the 3rd May. I think there was a tragic accident and someone panicked. I certainly do not go for the whole Government in it theory as someone would have spilled the beans before now to topple the Government at the time.
Clever and calculating, that is what i think they were. However i do not believe the parents knew about it, but someone there did.

mystique wrote:However i do not believe the parents knew about it, but someone there did.

Welcome mystique
I wish I could believe the parents didn't know what happened. I just can't get my head around any parent suddenly losing their child then acting like this:


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I could understand it if this sort of photo was a one off, but we saw them behaving like this time after time after time. They are not grieving parents. They are not behaving as though a swarthy paedophile had just taken their daughter so she could give them her tuppenceworth. Kate positively blossomed days after the event. To me that suggests this whole thing was ....well, I'll keep my thoughts to myself.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Adam and Stephen [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Alison and Mystique

Those photos are the sticking point with me too, they look so relaxed as if they don't have a care in the world. I think, if it were discovered that some of the MW guests had connections to the McCann group, nothing can be ruled out and that, imo, would include the possiblility of premidation.

EN at Larmenier Primary school will almost certainly be the daughter of AN, secretary of the PTA there. But what I'm saying is, that I'm not convinced that these Naylors are friends of the McCs. I've seen no connection with them. I quite agree there can't be many Ainne Naylors around, but there are many Roberts and Elizabeths. I feel more research is needed.

Hello alison - great to see you here.
When you say "there is also some evidence of an owner called Naylor being at the complex at the same time" I would put it differently. I would say that an unidentified owner (of an apartment at the OC) booked that apartment - G4N - in the name of a person or a couple called Naylor.
That's what I understand by the booking list saying "G4N - Naylor - Owner booking".
The Family Naylor (Robert, Áinne and Elizabeth plus an infant) booked through Mark Warner into apartment BP01. We don't yet know if these two groups of Naylors were related to each other.

Is there a chance that any of these are connected to the Naylors, of McCann Erickson and Bell Pottinger groups? The very people who make sure that dodgy companies and individuals ''don't make the headlines''? The ones who do work for Virgin, Vodafone and the NHS?

you may have found the missing link IMHO but kikoraton/HideHo/ Stella/ shibboleth
Will know more, I am just an admirer let's say. Hey Alison, good to see you here! Hardly posting but always five star quality!!
Love parapono

I am perplexed by this thread - are people saying two children were signed in (by one adult) but only one child was physically present? What about headcount and cognition of the children?

I am of the opinion her death was accidental albeit not self inflicted as premeditated would leave plenty opened questions such as risks factor, too many people involved, why a foreign country, too many elements involved etc. The cover up, charade, simulation, anniversary, fund and all the 'after the fact' events were premeditated that much was obvious, but coldblooded premeditated murder is hard to stomach. Though I'm aware some people believed that because the happy-faced maccanns photos are hard to ignore.

I am thinking their euphoria image in early days maybe because they were relieved they'd managed to get away with the cover-up so far ...a sudden false sense of security. The fact they were not hauled into the investigation rooms and locked up for nights until bail is paid up meant they knew they'd passed the first and most difficult hurdles without setback and what ensued is going to be easier since they'd got media and influential people backing them - they knew they'd managed to pull it off. If their pretense didnt work their way all they'd to do was flee home - which they did! The confusion they created were working to their advantage and they were euphoric also maybe because they were thinking nicely of the £££ rolling in - who knows their reasons for being joyful.

I concede their joyful image is an inexplicable enigma even I find difficult to comprehend, but I cant believe people are capable of preplanning it to the extent they deliberately took their child overseas to commit the deed in the midst of their friends. That would require reptile-like curling coldblood and nerves of steel to carry it through.

What I can accept is earlier than 3rd timing due to the very effective disposal and cleaned up; and time is perfect factor for those tasks. At the same time I dont think start of the holiday is when it happened, maybe at most 24 hours ahead of May 3rd.......anything earlier also require nerves of steel. Not only the creche records and nanny testimonies would become contentious........what about their friends? How did they explain to friends the whereabout of Maddie, as in her absence for those few days. I dont believe all their friends are into their pre-planned or would overlook their preplanned without saying anything. For that matter I believe not all their friends are into the details of the accidental.

Just my humble view of course.

I believe the style of handwriting, and the never-consistent signature, indicate that GM signed in Elizabeth on behalf of the Naylors. I also think that he signed in a girl called Madeleine - however it might have been spelled - in order to convince the staff of correct headcount, girl answering to correct name. This could explain why some observers said that Madeleine was quiet and reserved, whilst those who knew the real Maddie from past contact, said that she was outgoing.
I, for one, am not claiming murder. I just don't know. But I do wonder why Maddie's health record was never released.

hello aiyoyo
Quoting from your well-written piece: "That would require reptile-like curdling coldblood and nerves of steel to carry it through."
Agreed , but isn't that what is suggested by the speed with which they established the fund? And divided their response to the 48 questions between answering (GM) and refusing to answer (KM)? Hasn't it all been about $$$$$$$$$$$$, and nerves of steel to remain in PT as long as they could before finally getting out? If you lose a child, doesn't your life go on hold, whilst you put what emotional effort you can summon into appealing for her return and helping the police to find her?
If Maddie had to die, better it should happen in a foreign country, where you could slag off the police and set up a media circus. They could never have pulled it off in Britain, surrounded by neighbours, doubters, and a more knowledgeable police force.

aiyoyo wrote:
... I concede their joyful image is an inexplicable enigma even I find difficult to comprehend, but I cant believe people are capable of preplanning it to the extent they deliberately took their child overseas to commit the deed in the midst of their friends. That would require reptile-like curling coldblood and nerves of steel to carry it through. ...

Hi Aiyoyo,
Premeditation and pre-planning don't necessarily imply the conclusion you draw here, or the one Tony Bennett drew earlier in this thread. I can suggest two possibilities, briefly:

a) Whatever happened to Maddie occurred shortly before the holiday and the McC's, with the help of some of the T7 decided to fake the abduction scenario to explain her absence, initially to friends and family, and to avoid having the British police investigating the real scene of the 'crime', while also absolving themselves from any blame.

b) The McC's, and KMcC especially may have found Madeleine a bit of a handful (there are a few indications of this in the statements of the grandparents); so much so, especially after the arrival of the twins, that she (MBM) was ruining their domestic life. In such circumstances putting Madeleine up for adoption would be a possibility for parents who really couldn't cope, but I don't see that going down too well with the extended families of both parents. So an informal adoption is arranged, and the whole saga in PdL takes place, again to give an explanation for Madeleine's absence - and don't forget that all 3 arguidos and all the T7 benefitted financially from their week in PdL, in some cases greatly.

Both of these scenarios involve premeditation, but not 'reptile-like curling coldblood' - and they both explain much that is currently not understood; which doesn't, of course make either one of them true. And there are things they don't explain (most significantly the dogs, the Smith sighting).

But there is so much smoke and mirrors in this case that sometimes I think we have to question everything, and most on this thread are at least happy to discuss Kikoraton's idea of a very early date for the event (end of April) without fainting or dismissing it out of hand, so pushing back the date a wee bit further should not stretch things too far - I'm not suggesting that this is what happened, but only that it is worth thinking about.

Hi Kikoraton,
Sorry, I'd not read your piece before posting my previous one. You make several arguments that could be used to support a premeditated (I almost typed 'premedicated' there), pre-PdL scenario - and especially a major one that I only lightly referred to: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Keep up the good work!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] I'm not so sure they'd confidence that the Portugal police were not going to be equally experienced and competent as the UK ones.

I still believe it was an accident and they used the local situations and location to their full advantage.
Had the death happened earlier than 3rd then they had ample time to put together a plan plus a hastily mooted fund to make the abduction appear geniune. Also if it was premeditated surely they could have done it away from the apt and didnt have to worry about evidence left behind in apt as in cadaverine.

Surely they of all people are not stupid enough to think they could use the funds for luxuries or to maintain their lifestyle at their wills?
I believe their 'golden-egg fund' is their biggest woe now because what was good idea then has now become big rock strangling round their neck because the legitimacy of it has become a contentious issue.
I suspect they'd no choice but to keep up the pretense of searching for Maddie until the fund dries out.

In the eventuality that they stand trial, their simulation of abduction and cover up would pale in significance and comparison to the monetary fraud they had committed. The former could be seen as immediate instinct for self perservation, while the latter would be seen as ice-blooded, unscrupulous, callous, cunning, manipulative, evil, and all the ugly adjectives that one can attribute to a conman. This coming right in the face of knowing full well she was dead is deceitful beyond evil. If anything, this is something no one will forgive them ever. They will be seen as the most 'evil pair of doctors for centuries' Can you imagine the deluge of outrage when people discovered they were swindled into giving money to a 'PAIR OF DOCTORS' of all people who knew their daughter was dead?

If that day comes, no security cell is secured enough for them, especially cocky GM with all his smugness will get the full brunt of whatever coming his way. Again, just my humble opinion, because people hate to be cheated of their hard earned money albeit given in goodwill.

If GM signed in two children, one of which was EN and signed her in by copying RN signature - was this an attempt to prove that RN was at the creche when he was really somewhere else, doing something else?

kikoraton wrote:If Maddie had to die, better it should happen in a foreign country, where you could slag off the police and set up a media circus. They could never have pulled it off in Britain, surrounded by neighbours, doubters, and a more knowledgeable police force.

That's what I think too. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Daoud wrote:b) The McC's, and KMcC especially may have found Madeleine a bit of a handful (there are a few indications of this in the statements of the grandparents); so much so, especially after the arrival of the twins, that she (MBM) was ruining their domestic life.

Pity they didn't enlist the services of someone like Jo Frost, Supernanny...maybe Maddie wouldn't now be dead 'missing'.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This thread is really picking up speed, is not it? Perhaps the effect of being able to think and post without being warned, blocked or banned
Kikoraton, Shibboleth Stella and daoud IMO are proceeding straight away to a scenario that encompasses nearly all we have come to know up to now.
And this might include the fact that Madeleine never got to PdL at all. Pointers are the YouTube video and the inconsistencies about booking and flighttimes. DW s strange report of the time spent on arrival At the airport.
And the whole machine that started to work on the evening of the third had to be positioned in advance. Like an army, it takes time to get the troops in and the connections set up. This does not necessarily include (premeditated) murder as such.
All IMHO parapono

parapono wrote:And this might include the fact that Madeleine never got to PdL at all. Pointers are the YouTube video and the inconsistencies about booking and flighttimes.

Whose blood, cadaver and bodily fluids might it have been in the apartment and hire car? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

jkh wrote:

parapono wrote:And this might include the fact that Madeleine never got to PdL at all. Pointers are the YouTube video and the inconsistencies about booking and flighttimes.

Whose blood, cadaver and bodily fluids might it have been in the apartment and hire car? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Yess Jill, and whose death scent did the dogs smell in the apartment?

I have no doubts in my mind that what occurred, actually happend in apartment 5a, sometime that week.

If anyone planned to do something before that holiday, it would have been a basic holiday for just a few friends, not a holiday involving such a large group of very important people.

This is logic and common sense talking now. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

When my dad died suddenly my mum had to be sedated until after his funeral. She was a complete, shocked, emotional wreck. He was 68 years old and they didn't particularly get on but no one thought her reaction was odd.

I just can't understand how anyone can lose a three year old child to a sudden accident or abduction and look like this [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It's just not normal. To me, all the photo's of this nature of the McCanns (and there are many) suggests they did something to Maddie and God forbid they weren't sorry to lose her.

I have always thought the same jkh and wonder if the reason her medical records weren't produced was something to do with that.
I often think of a post made on MCF that had another theory which I found most interesting.

littlepixie wrote:I have always thought the same jkh and wonder if the reason her medical records weren't produced was something to do with that.
I often think of a post made on MCF that had another theory which I found most interesting.

Would you like to elaborate on this, littlepixie?

Did not sr Amaral himself state that all investigations into a missing person case start with establishing whether the person was there in the first place. As no trace of madeleine nor her DNA could be established in and around PdL. All those sightings and statements do no lead to garanty she was there. The only inferred believable statement comes from the daughter of the cleaning lady seeing them go up with special sneakers that light up at each step. But even that could be put in scene. More so because the corroborating picture of Madeleine jumping in the playground raises many questions(two left shoes, wrong shadows..). So what's left to guaranty she was there in the first place?
And no I am not discarding Martin Grimes nor his dogs. But IMO their alert did not have a name tag on it.
And if this thing is as big as it seems to be, there would be possibilities to arrange those alerts some way or other. IMO
And last but no least I never have thought the mcCanns were the driving force behind this. They were and are being used and perhaps they started to regret their roles soon after the circus came to town.
I am just thinking possibilities, no more no less.
All in my honest and humble opinion. parapono

Judge Mental wrote:

littlepixie wrote:I have always thought the same jkh and wonder if the reason her medical records weren't produced was something to do with that.
I often think of a post made on MCF that had another theory which I found most interesting.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Would you like to elaborate on this, littlepixie?

It went a bit over my head Judge but was to do with IVF and possibly the manipulating of it. It was the only thing that made sense to me as to why certain people were supporting the parents from the beginning.
There must have been very good reason for Richard Branson to suddenly put up his 100K so publically in support of two people when he had no idea whether they were innocent or not?


Why would he do that? What had it got to do with him? Why would he pledge all that money to keep them out of jail. What if they had "gone down" at the beginning of it all, how would he have looked then?

What type of medical research is he involved in or financing?

It sort of tied in with why the parents seemed to blossom after Maddie disappeared. As if a weight had been taken off their shoulders.

Eta It could also have have explained the 100% match - oh sorry no theres more than one person in there crud from the FSS.

GM introduces a girl (from amongst his circle of friends) called Madel(e)ine. From Day One. The nanny is fooled. She would be - as far as she is concerned, she is Madeleine McCann.
But the almost identical handwriting indicates that he signed in Elizabeth Naylor as well. But why?

littlepixie wrote:

Judge Mental wrote:

littlepixie wrote:I have always thought the same jkh and wonder if the reason her medical records weren't produced was something to do with that.
I often think of a post made on MCF that had another theory which I found most interesting.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Would you like to elaborate on this, littlepixie?

It went a bit over my head Judge but was to do with IVF and possibly the manipulating of it. It was the only thing that made sense to me as to why certain people were supporting the parents from the beginning.
There must have been very good reason for Richard Branson to suddenly put up his 100K so publically in support of two people when he had no idea whether they were innocent or not?


Why would he do that? What had it got to do with him? Why would he pledge all that money to keep them out of jail. What if they had "gone down" at the beginning of it all, how would he have looked then?

What type of medical research is he involved in or financing?

It sort of tied in with why the parents seemed to blossom after Maddie disappeared. As if a weight had been taken off their shoulders.

Eta It could also have have explained the 100% match - oh sorry no theres more than one person in there crud from the FSS.

Also this Stphen Winyard seemed to bankroll them from the start, and even paid for DNA testing on the car, the question is why??

[snipped] full article can be found in Press Archives section under Backers.

Dec 9 2007 By David Taylor, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
THE Scots millionaire bankrolling Madeleine McCann's parents has attacked Gordon Brown for failing to back them.
Stobo Castle owner Stephen Winyard hit out at the Prime Minister for his lack of public support for Gerry and Kate McCann.
Winyard said Brown had spoken to the couple several times by phone but after they were declared official suspects by the Portuguese police the calls came to a halt.
He said: "This government was elected to look after its citizens and it's fair to say it's a fundamental principal of our legal system that everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty.
"With that in mind, I would strongly urge that Gordon Brown, who has previously been really supportive, accede to our request for a meeting at ministerial level."
Winyard - who divides his time between Stobo, Peebleshire, and a home in Monaco - has contributed towards the McCanns' legal costs and has offered a £1million reward for Madeleine's safe return.
He has also paid for DNA testing which he says clears the couple of any wrongdoing.