If Madeleine McCann died on Sunday 29 April, what was really going on behind the scenes that week?

crusader wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The " bar Bills" in the files are a computer printout of the daily expenditure by guests .

crusader wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The " bar Bills" in the files are a computer printout of the daily expenditure by guests .

Doug D wrote:I can't remember their names at the moment, but weren't the family with the buggy walking away from the OC playground photos of MM just day visitors?

PS
The Boyd family. They were the ones who gave the interview with their photos on the beach saying their kids had been playing football with MM by the pool.

Tony Bennett wrote:

Doug D wrote:I can't remember their names at the moment, but weren't the family with the buggy walking away from the OC playground photos of MM just day visitors?

PS
The Boyd family. They were the ones who gave the interview with their photos on the beach saying their kids had been playing football with MM by the pool.

Vicky Boyd comprehensively lied about being in the sunlounger on the afternoon of Wednesday 2 May while Madeleine and her son Louie played football together 'for an hour' and the children were all playing on the waterslide.

FACT: It rained on Wednesday

Jill Havern wrote:

Tony Bennett wrote:

FACT: It rained on Wednesday

It was the journalist Danielle Gusmaroli who made up the story, not Vicky Boyd - Peter contacted Vicky and spoke to her via zoom.

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onehand wrote:
Tiago Rochas Barreiros statement   
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He knows the family of the missing child as they were clients of the tapas restaurant which they began frequenting the 2nd day of their arrival to the Ocean Club.

From the very beginning a request was made to the restaurant workers to reserve a table for 20-30 until the end of the week.

if this statement is correct the booking episode of russell, at least a male from the group we know better as tapas 9, was made before the dinner started. 

and the guess from the statements of raj and neil ; that you have to get as soon to the desk in the morning when luisa or another college opens up have to get your feet in, or the places are already booked. will makes it likely russell books in person , alone for the full week at the desk of luisa around 09.00 hours in the morning.

onehand wrote:there is no booking sheet for the tapas restaurant in the files before may 1, spo all their is, needs to come from statements.

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REPLY:  Yes, we have no booking sheet for Sunday 30 April. For us that raises a doubt as to whether they did eat there that night. This might tie in with the statements (we don't have the link right now) which refers to a manager who was on holiday having to be contacted to authorise the booking. That could be consistent with Rachael who claimed to have made the actual booking on the Monday morning.   

the only strange thing about the sheets that are there, you see for the tapas 9, on 1 ,2 and 3 may the number 9, there is no correction for an absent person. 

REPLY: True, because it is a booking sheet, it is booked every night for 9 people for the rest of the week. If we look at this for a moment with a working assumption that Madeleine suffered a serious event on Sunday, and make a second assumption that there never was a 'checking' arrangement, then is this probable: 1. That the checking regime was always a lie? --- 2. That someone, in turn, had to look after all the children each night?  That is a version of events that was supported by Amaral's successor (Ribero or Rivero?) who said he had actual evidence that 'the children were all looked after in one apartment every night of the week' (or words to similar effect).
In addition, we seem to recollect that no member of the Tapas 7 was reported to be absent from the group on Monday, though one was missing on all the other days    

It is very unlikely such a restaurant would only serve 20 guests, it always sounded strange to me. if you read luisa het statement you find the 20 for mark warner guests.

REPLY: Agreed.

the ocean club guest lists are from only mark warner

REPLY: Yes

there is hardly a word about other guests, the non mark warner bunch, not for the restaurant, not about the bar. 

if you want to make me very curious, it would be because of these factors. why was not all information there. 
could other non mark warner guest just walk in, and eat, do they have to show something, do they also had to book?

Jonal wrote:Hi onehand, 

Before other flights of fancy, I should bring to the attention of MMRG that even if a tall man made an insistent - not necessarily urgent - request at reception, he was not accompanied by any girl to be taken from evidence in the witness statement of Luisa Coutinho. I read carefully through the original statement and can say the translation (by 'Ines') at the link onehand suggests and quoted above that goes with it is wrong, among the awkward phrasing there is a missing word and a misplaced comma that changes the emphasis so that it might appear the man was at reception with a girl when he was not.

REPLY: Thank you for your help on that. In some ways, if that is right, that helps, if only to eliminate one minor puzzle in the case. 

As my answer to the questions in post [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]:

1  The receptionist worked - on Thursday at least - 09:00-19:00. Why guess at a time later than that? It's an important point because if there was a plot afoot a central plank was dining at Tapas - as repeated in every newspaper report ever since.

REPLY: So there was no-one on reception after 7pm? Or someone else was on after 7pm? 

2  We do not know for certain that they ate there any night. The 'Tapas Restaurant' booking sheets (?) that are intended to show this only raise questions and the various witness statements are a mess of contradiction along the lines of "Tuesday or Wednesday or it could have been Monday". I would like to see the bar bill mentioned by R'OB.

REPLY: On that point we would also note that we do not, so far as we are aware, have any witness evidence from other diners of the McCanns eating at the Tapas before Thursday, when on that date the Carpenters provide evidence. We have often wondered if there was a private dining room that was made available at the Tapas for them?     

Jonal wrote:

Questions might be asked as to how she knew this man was part of the McCann group, and her description might apply to two or perhaps only one of that group each of whom ruled themselves out, leading to speculation about a Tenth Tapas. For sure this figure isn't Kate's friend Rachael who "managed to get a table for nine at 8.30pm pencilled in for the rest of the week after having a word with the receptionist at the pool and Tapas area."

The existence of the tall man is conjured by this witness statement, given at midday on Tuesday 8 May. At the same time - at whose bidding I wonder? - the receptionist produced the fabled 'book' that was supposedly left open at reception that is more correctly described in the original wording as a handwritten minute book, most likely the loose sheets labelled 'Tapas Restaurant'. If she was part of a plot still not quite hatched, there is nothing to say that the tall man ever existed or more likely that her description should be intended to fit those possibly two men in the group if it was vague enough. RO still had to pick up the "I made the booking" stick so I think the cracks in the plan would show up right here if these witnesses were cross-examined. If the Tapas lot were entirely innocent, RO would indeed have made the booking at whatever time it really was and all parties would remember and agree.

I am very familiar with those pieces of paper that you say are bar bills. There are not two restaurants in the world that scrawl a meaningless list of drinks and quantities on a handwritten sheet and call it a bar bill without any sign of customer or cost!

It's in his rogatory: "I recall that orders may have been put onto a bar bill and paid at the end of the week." There should be details on that to show where everybody was and what they were necking but somehow I doubt it exists.

onehand wrote:to jonal, 

i was already underway in typing, i do agree with you, that the daytime was most likely when the booking  for the tapas dinners was made. 

i am not part of the research group. i am just a poster like you and the rest. 

i never have seen a bar bill, and i would have certainly have been keen to look at them. the tapas sheets itself only take the wine that goes with the dinners. they lack indeed functional information. the total for extras on the client listings are just a total, including also extras beyond their booking. so you do not know if it is from surplus childcare, or booze.

it does not matter if the client got their own bar bill in print, it is in most countries customary in this branche, that there are printouts with timestamps and even waiter numbers on it. they usually use a till to register each giving. same as are in the files from kelly's bar. the tills in use have always a duplicate on a second roll or  a digital memory register. a paper bill usually only will be printed out from that till, when the client ask for it. 

it is not a owner at the till, a large company loves to keep an eye on what happened in their facilities, the second roll of bar bills, or an digital memory register gives a lot of information. there are always sidesteps to make, but at least it gives something to check. 

it is the register with bar bills that i wanted to see, the tapas 9 could never cheat with that on their own. personel or owners can. a printed bill presented by a client is no proof when it has no declaration that identify that client as the buyer. i still would have wanted to see the print out in from the till itself. it is never foolproof, but it is at least something, you can hold to a statement. 

about the tapas booking sheets,

we don't even know if these are just loose sheets, just a easy to copy form, to fill out when needed( i think they are), kept in some folder or loose binder, or indeed part of a true book. most practical would it be, if it are just loose sheets, somewhere the next morning, someone of the administration would get them to transport the numbers into the books. 

if it is a book bound or glued together it is less easier to keep information under the table. with loose sheets you never are to be sure it are indeed originals. making it the information on them could never be proven to been made on the date on it. so i do hope they got also the book keeping from the computers it was kept on. 

it is that type of information that would not end up in open files. most companies would protest if it became for everyone to see.  

the reason a bar bill would of use, is to get at least an impression if their intake could have some influence on their memory. also as we seen with the bills from kelly's bar, their are often times stamped on them. like all other things, time stamps could help a lot to get a grip on what happened when. time plus a pass or card number would at least be an indication that they really have could been there.

it is always nice, if a timeline is not only from statements.

onehand wrote:to crusader post 69

it never became clear if the tapas bar and restaurant also could be used by non guests. it could be the official take on that is somewhere in the unreadable signs and notices at the entry. 

if someone have a picture with readable words, i am interested in that. 

it was meant of course for guests of the ocean club, but how serious they have been in that before 3 may 2007 is hard to get a view on. 

if you take a look at that part, it is fenced/walled in, everyone would have to go in by the reception desk, once you would be in, you could access not only the tapas bar and restaurant, but also the pools. this setup is usually guest only. 

it is not known how easy non guest could get access, it is not you could pay for a day ticket or such things, it could be accepted if a guest wanted a seating with a non guest. 
the small reception is simply there to restrict or control the access. there was not something as a access card, the checks had to be made  hands.

after 3 may 2007, they had access restricted for guests only, the morning of 4 may, journalists could just walk in, but it did not take long before they got back to guest only. some years back i had someone who got on a holiday near pdl, but the access was restricted. 

from my own experience in other places outside the summer season , or high season, the rules for access and use of facilities  would not be taken that strictly. but most of those these restaurants and bars would be in the hands of a subcontractor, and for most it will mean some extra pennies are welcome in the low seasons, this was just under the ocean club. 

so rules and signs with rules are one thing, how that was kept in place another. 

there was per statement of raj and neil there was also take out possible.

but there had to be others guest to keep that place afloat. 

the problem i have with the sheets is,they only give some information about mark warner guests. same with the creche sheets, only mark warner. so there is possible information of witnesses just missing out. 

same with the reception at the entry of the tapas area, it looks to be manned daytime only, i never found out if after 19.00 hours someone always was even there. if it was manned, there would be a fare better view on all the checking tapas 9 movements. 

it would means simply more eyes on them, if there were other guest in the bar , or the restaurant they stay incognito for the investigation. 

it could not only help in information if they truly have been there, but also their mood, and what some would have wearing. because that last thing is still a mystery. none of them could be at least a bit sure what clothes they have been wearing that evening. 

from the guestlist of the ocean club itself it is known, it was certainly not mark warner only, but other than on that list those people do not show on up on other activities by name. 

because of what the ocean club really was, not all would have to be on such a guest list either. there would certainly be some rules, that any owner of property under the ocean club, would have the responsibility to make known, when and who was in. easy money was to make it to just do not tell. 
all in all it would be certainly a place you could stay incognito to any registration. 

in the files it looks like only the folders with mark warner printed on them made it to the investigation. making the other guests on the ocean club guest listings invisible to the investigation. 

without names you will miss out on witnesses, the people of the' not my cup of tea' stances become unseen. most of those would talk if you simply can ask them questions. that is mostly the reason you want house to house calls, they cost a lot of time and manpower, and in this case they had not even 48 hours to realize that. they got pretty quick in house to house calls, but most people who could have had eyes on the ground would be gone after the morning of the fifth. 
if you look in operation paris, a uk case, the shannon matthews- case, it was day 24 she was found, because of this;

In this case, the investigative strategy covered the full range of scenarios and deployed an array of investigative techniques. It is true to say, however, that it did not generate a single piece  information about what had happened to Shannon until officers engaged on routine TIE enquiries and were given information wholly unconnected to that enquiry. The person who had that information did not think it particularly significant and so had not reported it to the police but passed it on when an investigator visited their home for another reason. The intelligent handling of that information and follow-up enquiries quickly led to the safe recovery of Shannon on 15 March.

from the debrief report of operation paris, no direct working link available.
it is read only also, but i could work around that.

you can never tell what in the end will leads to solving a case, but information had to get to an investigation. you never can look into something, that simply is not even there.  more about this why that plays a role is for another message.