Re: If Madeleine McCann died on Sunday 29 April, what was really going on behind the scenes that week?

by **Silentscope** 16.07.22 17:39

Not one Holidaymaker OUTSIDE of the Tapas group has produced any Photo during that week.

The Worlds greatest missing Person enquiry, and not one Holidaymaker in PDL captured Madeleine at the OC, the Beach, or anywhere else she was supposed to have been?

Ludicrous?

by **Tony Bennett** 16.07.22 22:59

Looking back at the information we have in the PJ files, the first indication that something was badly amiss was the strange and apparently sudden decision on Sunday evening to change to demanding that the Tapas restaurant be booked for the rest of the week. Even the Ocean Club receptionist couldn't figure out why this was necessary or desirable.

One question we've never really delved into on the forum is whether, if something deadly happened to Madeleine earlier that Sunday, the twins were present when 'it' happened.

I personally doubt it, because I don't think the twins were aware of what actually happened to Madeleine.

Remember Amelie, when she saw Madeleine's ACTUAL pyjamas:

"Maddie's jammies! Where is Maddie?"

by Guest 17.07.22 1:52

PeterMac wrote:Thursday evening was perfect because it gave the PJ the whole of Friday to interview them before letting them go home.
Had it been the Friday evening the PJ would have been justified in trying to prevent their leaving on Saturday morning.

Precisely!

The PJ had no reasonable opportunity to further question holidaymakers, or even anyone else considering the ensuing chaos. That much is evident from the PJ files.

by Guest 17.07.22 2:27

Given the circumstances presented by the McCanns and their group of friends, the PJ's priority in the initial hours was to determine if anything suspicious could be ascertained through visual photographic evidence. There is no way of knowing if any fellow holidaymakers photographs had/have been presented for examination by the PJ, nor indeed the CEOP after Jim Gamble's appeal. Aside from the Foster family which provided nothing useful.

The PJ were looking for anything suspicious in the background of holiday makers photographs, not looking for images of Madeleine McCann.

Holiday makers generally take photographs of their own family/group, not strangers.

It doesn't help to sow barren seeds.

by **Tony Bennett** 17.07.22 9:11

Verdi wrote:The PJ were looking for anything suspicious in the background of holiday makers photographs, not looking for images of Madeleine McCann.

Holiday makers generally take photographs of their own family/group, not strangers.

Jim Gamble was on the case early asking for photos to be sent to him.

I wonder if he consulted with the PJ before making this announcement to the British press.

Of course we now have evidence that he had drawn up a 'dummy' Madeleine page on the CEOP website during Monday 30 April, no doubt as the result of an urgent 'phone call from Praia da Luz late Sunday or early Monday. It was already for 'go' after 10pm Thursday. And his friend Mark Williams-Thomas was soon despatched to Praia da Luz to tell the world how appalling was the PJ's inept handling of the 'abduction' by 'paedophiles'.

by **CaKeLoveR** 17.07.22 9:33

How on earth did Gamble get away with asking for photographs? The police should have stepped in at that point. They couldn't stop Mitchell from asking for money, I suppose, but everybody in the world should have started questioning the motives of these two, and their requests.

by Doug D 17.07.22 12:03

Verdi:

'Holiday makers generally take photographs of their own family/group, not strangers.

It doesn't help to sow barren seeds.'

Like this 'typical' holiday snap of their own family, which just happens to capture at least two other holiday groups in the background. In such a holiday complex it's pretty much impossible not to capture infiltrators in this sort of photo.

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by Guest 17.07.22 14:35

Doug D wrote:Verdi:

'Holiday makers generally take photographs of their own family/group, not strangers.

It doesn't help to sow barren seeds.'

Like this 'typical' holiday snap of their own family, which just happens to capture at least two other holiday groups in the background. In such a holiday complex it's pretty much impossible not to capture infiltrators in this sort of photo.

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Yes and as I said ....

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.... in context!

by Guest 17.07.22 15:13

The night of 3rd May 2007, taken from Kate McCann's autobiographical novel, madeleine..

Despite the horror of the situation, some sense of the necessity to approach the crisis calmly and methodically appeared to kick in among our friends as they tried to exert a modicum of control over the chaos. What could be done? What should be done? Aware that we were only an hour and a quarter’s drive from southern Spain, and beyond that lay the borderless continent of Europe – not to mention the short hop across the Strait of Gibraltar to north Africa – David was saying, ‘We need roadblocks set up. The borders to Spain, Morocco and Algiers need to be alerted.’

Russell later asked us for our digital photos of Madeleine and went off somewhere with our camera.

by Guest 17.07.22 15:31

Kate McCann wrote:A week had now passed since Madeleine’s abduction. Later that day, Thursday 10 May, the Portuguese police held a press conference, at which they released a photograph of a pair of the same Marks and Spencer pyjamas Madeleine had been wearing and confirmed that they were winding down the ground search.

Meanwhile, Gerry and I, along with a couple of our friends, were called back to the police station in Portimão. The police were much friendlier on this occasion and the junior officers, at least, gave the impression that by this time they were working very hard. Gerry was taken in to be interviewed while I remained downstairs.

I made use of the long wait I anticipated by sitting down with a notebook, pen and my camera, containing dated photographs of the holiday, and trying to write a detailed account of everything that had happened the week before.

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thinking

by **sharonl** 17.07.22 17:26

Verdi wrote:
Kate McCann wrote:A week had now passed since Madeleine’s abduction. Later that day, Thursday 10 May, the Portuguese police held a press conference, at which they released a photograph of a pair of the same Marks and Spencer pyjamas Madeleine had been wearing and confirmed that they were winding down the ground search.

Meanwhile, Gerry and I, along with a couple of our friends, were called back to the police station in Portimão. The police were much friendlier on this occasion and the junior officers, at least, gave the impression that by this time they were working very hard. Gerry was taken in to be interviewed while I remained downstairs.

I made use of the long wait I anticipated by sitting down with a notebook, pen and my camera, containing dated photographs of the holiday, and trying to write a detailed account of everything that had happened the week before.

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A long wait? Dated photographs?

What photographs? How many were there to keep her busy for a "long wait"?

Where are all these photographs? Have we seen them?

by **CaKeLoveR** 17.07.22 17:35

We seem to see only the make-up photos, and those of a much younger Madeleine.

by **crusader** 17.07.22 18:24

Ah yes but they weren't on the disk handed to the police, they are all after the event.

by **PeterMac** 17.07.22 23:04

And in his statement, signed under "oath" Gerry said he had NO MORE PHOTOS I NHIS POSSESSION>

But three weeks later he returned to the UK, and three days later returned with Mitchell as part of his excess baggage, and the same day his sister Philomena, wife of knowledgeable astronomer and skilled manipulator of photographs, Quicksand Tony Rickwood, arrived in PdL
...And quite by chance the following day the Last Photo = the Pool Photo was released to the press of the world, with an petition by Mitchell to look at the Time = the DATE . . .
And also, quite by chance, that was the days of publication of the utterly lying mendacious untrue and invented story by Danielle Guzmaroli in the women's magazine about the waterslide which - quite by chance - included details of the clothing which had been given in the Last/Pool photo. [except that she got some of it wrong ! ]

One coincidence, two coincidences ? ( Kate McCann) ???

by Guest 18.07.22 1:51

Gerry McCann - witness statement 10th May 2007

He is part of this case in the form of a participant and an offended party, as the father of the minor MADELEINE. Being a British national who does not know the Portuguese language, oral or written, the interpreter Alice Dias Homem de Gouveia Avakoff is therefore present.

----- That he confirms the truth of the statements made previously on 4 May 2007 he being available here to provide any further clarifications.

----- Asked, he clarifies that, with regard to the personal photos already delivered by him to the authorities after the disappearance of his daughter MADELEINE, he has no others in his power [possession]. He adds that it is his wife KATE who usually takes pictures, he does not recall if on this holiday any were taken at night.

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by Guest 18.07.22 2:07

Kate McCann wrote: On the night Madeleine went missing, Russell, anxious to get posters produced and out there quickly, asked me for my camera, so that he could use the photographs of Madeleine stored on it.

The PJ appear to have been determined to prove we’d brought these posters on holiday with us from Britain. They sent them to a forensics lab for analysis, asking for information on how old they were and how they had been printed and cut. Having established that Kodak paper had been used, they contacted a Kodak representative to find out where this paper could have been bought.

I was so exasperated to read all this. There was a much easier, more obvious way of confirming how and where these posters were produced. They could have just asked. As it was, it took them until April 2008 to verify that the posters had been run off, on the night of the abduction, by Amy Tierney, the Mark Warner duty manager, using her own Kodak paper and her own Kodak printer.

by Guest 18.07.22 2:12

Repeat ad nauseam - lest they forget..

Kate McCann wrote:During Gerry’s tennis lesson, Madeleine and Ella came to the adjoining court with their Mini Club for a mini-tennis session. Jane and I stayed to watch them. It chokes me remembering how my heart soared with pride in Madeleine that morning. She was so happy and obviously enjoying herself. Standing there listening intently to Cat’s instructions, she looked so gorgeous in her little T-shirt and shorts, pink hat, ankle socks and new holiday sandals that I ran back to our apartment for my camera to record the occasion. One of my photographs is known around the world now: a smiling Madeleine clutching armfuls of tennis balls. At the end of their session, the children had been asked to run around the court and pick up as many balls as they could. Madeleine had done really well and was very pleased with herself. Gerry loves that picture.

All this talk of cameras and photographs but .... no photographs?

by Guest 18.07.22 13:15

Chief Faffer wrote: I believe Maddie was already in a freezer well before then.

I'm in three minds about the freezer scenario, for starters there was a forum myth circulating some years ago - even to this day, about Gerry McCann disposing of a fridge. I would think if this be even a remote possibility, the PJ would be very interested in the whereabouts of said freezer.

The church has always been my favoured theory, backed by the frequent reference to the McCanns having been given the keys for private access and/or prayer. Then there is the relationship that developed between the McCanns and the padre, Hubbard.

Of all the people who claimed to have visited Luz over the years, not one so far has taken documented interest in the church. I believe it very likely the church has subterranean passages and/or a crypt running beneath, where a corpse could be stored without detection.

The church works in mysterious ways.

by **CaKeLoveR** 18.07.22 13:31

I also think the church is more involved than we know, and probably so is Arthur Haines Hubbard.

by **crusader** 18.07.22 14:31

I wonder if the police, private detectives, public, dogs etc can't find a body is because there is no body/remains to be found.

When Dr Amaral talked about a body in the church that was cremated the next day along with Madeleine, he wasn't wrong.

The McCann's are cock sure there is no trace of her to incriminate them.

by **crusader** 18.07.22 14:58

When Dr Amaral talked about a body in the church that was cremated the next day along with Madeleine, he wasn't wrong.

Or I should have said, in my opinion I don't think he was far from the truth.

by Guest 18.07.22 16:07

The Church

In the deep distant past I recall having a rummage about for information concerning the Church and a police investigation.

If I remember rightly, the police can enter a church in connection with a criminal investigation but a warrant is required beforehand, which can be time consuming and requires evidence and perhaps some conviction, that a crime has been committed and the Church is somehow connected - like harboring a criminal in sanctuary.

But then there is the moral angle, perhaps not able to prevent police entry but the mystery that surrounds the inner sanctums of Christianity does have an influence on how the establishment is viewed, managed and protected. Especially in a country where religious faith is so important to the majority.

The McCanns appeared to use the church in Luz as their own personal space, their territory, their sanctuary. Such behaviour could have a knock-on effect insofar as locals knowing very little about the case - and indeed the PJ acknowledging the sensitivity afforded to the McCanns, they were allowed to continue using the church for their own private reasons.

The church is very near to the Ocean Club so movement night or day wouldn't have posed a problem. A corpse could be concealed in the ambient temperature a subterranean location without detection - for however long it takes.

Father Hubbard and 'Ol Muvver Hubbard played a significant role during the summer of 2007. Not to say I think they were shipped over from Canada to assist the McCanns alone, I don't buy into that theory, but I believe their speedy intimate relationship with the Mccanns to be a red alert (gawd they get everywhere).

So often it's revealed a crime is committed on the door step, so to speak, whilst the manufactured trail takes every direction managed by deliberate deception.

by Liz Eagles 18.07.22 16:13

I was particularly fascinated by the unctious farther Hubbards wristwatch.

by **crusader** 18.07.22 16:37

Father Pacheco, it's reported, had all the McCann paraphernalia removed from the church and said he had been deceived.

What is interesting about Father Hubbard's watch?

by Liz Eagles 18.07.22 17:46

Verdi is brilliant at providing videos. Take a look at the most embarrassing interview by a member of the clergy.

by Guest 19.07.22 2:02

Madeleine McCann - Interview with Father Haynes Hubbard 2012

May 7, 2012

by **crusader** 19.07.22 9:10

I would be interested to know how the McCann's knew John Geraghty, how he got in touch with them and why he offered them the church keys.

by **Silentscope** 19.07.22 9:54

Translation of Father Pachecos Statement to the PJ 30th October 2007

Jose Manuel Conceicao Pacheco

The first time he had contact with the McCann's was on 5th May at about 19.00. This was a personal contact with them in the Ocean Club at their apartment, but not the apartment Madeleine disappeared from. They were accompanied by members of the holiday group.

This was an important meeting for the McCann's and which had not been possible to the fact that they were busy. He knows that on the fateful night the McCann's requested the presence of a priest, but he was only informed the following morning.

On the 5th, the theme they talked about was the disappearance and he gave all possible spiritual comfort and they prayed together. They also agreed that the couple would go to the church the following day to attend a mass.

He also prayed with the McCann's on the 6th and 8th May in their apartment.

He gave them the key to the church on the 7th or 8th May upon the suggestion of John Geraghty, a resident of the parish, so that they could calmly go to the church without any media pressure. Someone from the church gave the key to John Geraghty, who then passed it on to the McCann's, with Father Pacheco's permission.

He does not remember the date upon which the key was returned.

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by Guest 19.07.22 13:48

crusader wrote:I would be interested to know how the McCann's knew John Geraghty, how he got in touch with them and why he offered them the church keys.

Again there is mystery surrounding John Geraghty - including a case of mistaken identity somewhere along the line - so much has been distorted by media reports and of course the inevitable social media mischief.

You might find something of interest hidden in this old defunct forum thread..

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As it stands I don't think the Geraghty thread warrants continuation but let me know if you, or any other member, has more to add to discussion and I will decide from there.

Ta singlerose

by Jonal 20.07.22 5:06

Back on topic, do we know whose handwriting is on the Slide & Splash sheet?

If Madeleine McCann died on Sunday 29 April, what was really going on behind the scenes that week?

Which of these is the single most important reason for you believing that Madeleine died before Thursday?