YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

by **Tony Bennett** 18.07.14 12:01

CONTRADICTION 1: When Dr Payne first mentioned this visit, he said it took place at 5.00pm. Later he changed this to 6.30pm.

CONTRADICTION 2: Dr Payne first of all said that both Gerry and Kate McCann were there when he visited the apartment. Later he changed this to saying it was just Kate.

CONTRADICTION 3: Although Dr Payne and Kate McCann both claim that Payne visited the McCanns' apartment some time between 6.30pm and 7.00pm on 3rd May, Dr Payne's wife Fiona makes no mention of this in either of her two statements to the police, even though she claims she was watching her husband play tennis throughout this time.

CONTRADICTIONS 4 to 9: Why did this alleged visit take place? On various occasions, at least six different reasons have been given:

(1) just ‘for a visit’

(2) to help take Kate and the children down to the recreation area

(3) to ‘check on Kate’ (see if she was all right)

(4) because Kate ‘might need help in looking after all three children’

(5) 'To see if it was OK for Gerry to carry on playing tennis, and

(6) simply because Dr Payne ‘offered to go and see Kate’.

CONTRADICTION 10: Dr Payne says he walked in through the patio door without knocking. Kate McCann said she was in the shower and heard knocking.

CONTRADICTION 11: Dr Payne says Kate McCann was fully dressed. Kate McCann says she hurriedly put a towel around her and went to the door.

CONTRADICTION 12: Dr Payne says he walked in though the patio door. Kate McCann said he never entered, saying: 'he remained at the balcony door’.

CONTRADICTION 13: Dr Payne says we was in the apartment for at least ‘3 to 5 minutes'. Kate McCann says he remained on the balcony and she sent him away after no more than '30 seconds'.

CONTRADICTION 14: Dr Payne says he saw all three children. Kate doesn’t mention this.

CONTRADICTION 15: A newspaper story based on information supplied by ‘a source close to the McCanns’ claimed that Dr Payne ‘saw Kate putting the children to bed’. Neither Dr Payne nor Kate McCann mention this.

CONTRADICTION 16: In early statements, the McCanns said they took their children up to their apartment at 5.40pm, staying there until leaving for dinner at 8.30pm. But Dr Payne and Kate McCann say that Gerry McCann was not there at 6.30pm.

CONTRADICTION 17: Later, Gerry McCann changed his statement to say he was at the tennis courts at 6.30pm.

CONTRADICTION 18: The McCanns initially said that they had decided, as they went up to their apartment, that the children were too tired to stay and watch the tennis, so they would put them to bed, as they had had an exhausting day. Later the story was changed to say that they had decided no such thing and that Dr Payne had gone up to see if Kate McCann was going to bring the children down to watch the tennis match.

CONTRADICTION 19: Gerry McCann initially said that Dr Payne went up to see Kate McCann at about 6.30pm, and that he came back half-an-hour later at 7.00pm. Dr Payne said he only returned to the tennis court once, but Gerry McCann later changed his statement to say that Dr Payne had returned twice, once after seeing Kate, and then again after (allegedly) changing for tennis.

CONTRADICTION 20: In a report by David James Smith in The Times on 16 December 2007, said to be the ‘fullest account yet’ of what happened on the day Madeleine disappeared, Smith said that Gerry McCann at 4.30pm was ‘too injured with an Achilles tendon injury at 4.30pm to carry on playing tennis’. Yet later he claimed he was playing tennis again in a‘social tennis’ competition from 6.00pm to 7.00pm.

by plebgate 18.07.14 15:04

With so many contradictions, I do not believe the visit took place.

Put it this way, imo if these two had been at a business meeting and notes were being taken and the note taker came up with so many contradictions, they would immediately be sacked, wouldn't they?

by Justformaddie 18.07.14 15:13

Oh dear, all that put together, I would say that yes, there was a visit but, I don't think the truth will ever be known fully. It's good to be able to see it like this though. Gm says confusion is good, and IMO, he's really good at confusing things eh? Although, because of so much confusion here, I think something must have happened at this time, what, I don't know....
IMO
thanks

TB.

by roy rovers 18.07.14 15:27

Maybe Andy Redwood will find a minute to ask them about these things before his retirement - though he's busy hunting burglars most of the time.

by Guest 18.07.14 15:45

Gonçalo Amaral referring to David Payne: ”He might explain for how long he bathed the children and at what time."

by **PeterMac** 18.07.14 16:52

Very good piece of forensic analysis, if I may say so Tony.

When we then add that to the
Forged Last Photo
The deliberate whooshing away to the Paraiso for the first and last time of the entire Tapas Group - ALL of them
Kate being whooshed away for a run, and being made to go past the Tapas group on the beach - contrary to normal procedure
The Curious case of the spontaneously Healing Achilles Tendon, which kept Gerry away from the Tennis all afternoon, - but suddenly there and with several alleged alibis during the early evening
The fact that Kate cannot make up her mind whether she got Madeleine out of the creche, or met her in the Tapas bar with G, A, and S
The Curious Case of the Terminal Exhastion followng two hours of finger painting - or whatever

and some other things
we may begin to purport that the afternoon and evening of 3rd May 2007 was not EXACTLY as has been described by anyone

by Gaggzy 18.07.14 21:03

PeterMac wrote:Very good piece of forensic analysis, if I may say so Tony.

When we then add that to the
Forged Last Photo
The deliberate whooshing away to the Paraiso for the first and last time of the entire Tapas Group - ALL of them
Kate being whooshed away for a run, and being made to go past the Tapas group on the beach - contrary to normal procedure
The Curious case of the spontaneously Healing Achilles Tendon, which kept Gerry away from the Tennis all afternoon, - but suddenly there and with several alleged alibis during the early evening
The fact that Kate cannot make up her mind whether she got Madeleine out of the creche, or met her in the Tapas bar with G, A, and S
The Curious Case of the Terminal Exhastion followng two hours of finger painting - or whatever

and some other things
we may begin to purport that the afternoon and evening of 3rd May 2007 was not EXACTLY as has been described by anyone

If there's one thing they all must have agreed on, it was probably to talk so much bullturd and barefaced lies just to confuse and clutter everything with contradictions and nonsense.

by waiting for justice 20.07.14 1:18

Brilliant

Now that would make for one interesting reconstruction.

by Synes 17.08.14 20:55

The confusion and differing of statements for this time period makes me strongly suspect this was most likely the time of the 'accident' and the clear up followed shortly after.
The fact that no one in the group can agree on what happened, what time it happened and in which order IMO indicates there is a truth that cannot be spoken.
So fixated on creating and following the abductor story and ensuring that the plan is followed for the evening's quickly thrown together staging, they have overlooked a tight cover story for the actual 'accident' because in their newly written history it never happened, and who would have imagined back then on that night the events of the evening prior to M 'vanishing' would be put under such scrutiny.
Just my opinion of course.

by Nina 17.08.14 21:10

Yes he visited , around that time frame, maybe not that day, but just in case someone saw him on a.n.other day. Imo of course.

by Jauna Loca 22.08.14 16:42

plebgate wrote:With so many contradictions, I do not believe the visit took place.

I'M with you, Plebgaet. IIRC the Payne Visit was not part of the original statement but brought in later to stymie reports that Kate had been alone
with all three kids all afternoon and that there was no independent sighting of them alive since midday.

by **PeterMac** 22.08.14 17:11

Gaggzy wrote:
If there's one thing they all must have agreed on, it was probably to talk so much bullturd and barefaced lies just to confuse and clutter everything with contradictions and nonsense.

The problem with that approach is that Police officers are trained and then experienced in cutting through it all.
And now have computer systems - HOLMES II and ANACAPA -, which can begin to sot it all out, and identify who is lying, who is mistaken, and who may, just may, be telling part of the truth.

We saw how Dr Amaral on day 1 of his investigation - 4th May, already saw that there were GROSS anomalies and incoherences within and between the statements

by aiyoyo 22.08.14 19:08

by woodbine 22.09.14 14:45

Yep, I agree with Juana Loca and Plebgate. The visit didn't take place, but once the conspirators realised that there was no evidence that Maddie was alive at all that afternoon, an 'independant' witness had to be created. And as usual with this crew, it was handled extraordinarily badly, with no one being able to agree who was there, at what time, and why.

Some suspect that all the conflicting accounts is part of some masterplan to confuse, but I personally believe they were just incompetent.

by **Enid O'Dowd** 22.09.14 15:44

The discrepancy that stands out for me is no.11.

Kate says she was wearing just a towel having got out of the shower. Dr Payne does not recall the towel. Now it is believable that a man might not recall the clothes a woman was wearing if there was nothing inappropriate about them but not to remember Kate in her towel....?

Kate's story seems consistent - he stayed on the balcony and the visit was only about 30 secs as you would expect given her state of undress.

Dr Payne's version is so different that you wonder if the visit happened.

Richard Hall covers this very well in his film.

Needless to say this visit which is very significant in the scheme of things is not examined in the Summers and Swan book.

by Guest 22.09.14 15:57

Enid O'Dowd wrote:Needless to say this visit which is very significant in the scheme of things is not examined in the Summers and Swan book.

Supposedly the last person other than the parents to see Madeleine alive.

Not covered in the book.

What kind of investigative journalism is that?

by Rogue-a-Tory 25.09.14 17:47

No, David Payne didn't visit 5A between 6-30 & 7-00 om 3 May 2007.

by JohnyT 25.09.14 20:59

Yes, errmmmmm no.........errmmmm yes............errmmmmm no...................

by Naz_Nomad 25.09.14 21:24

JohnyT wrote:Yes, errmmmmm no.........errmmmm yes............errmmmmm no...................

Erm, yeah, you know, if you mean by "visit", did he, erm, actually, erm "visit" the apartment, well, that's a , sort of, you know, difficult one to answer, you see, because erm, well, a "visit" sort of, you know implies that one "visits" a place, but was it actually a "visit" or a "visit"? I mean, you know, if we can answer that, I mean, well, it's kind of like, erm, answered the question really. Yeah?

by **Tony Bennett** 25.09.14 21:32

Naz_Nomad wrote:
JohnyT wrote:Yes, errmmmmm no.........errmmmm yes............errmmmmm no...................

Erm, yeah, you know, if you mean by "visit", did he, erm, actually, erm "visit" the apartment, well, that's a , sort of, you know, difficult one to answer, you see, because erm, well, a "visit" sort of, you know implies that one "visits" a place, but was it actually a "visit" or a "visit"? I mean, you know, if we can answer that, I mean, well, it's kind of like, erm, answered the question really. Yeah?

@ Naz_Nomad For some strange reason, I am reminded of this famous quote by U.S. Secretary of State Donald Rumsfeld:

QUOTE

There are known knowns.

These are things we know that we know.

There are known unknowns.

That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know.

But there are also unknown unknowns.

There are things we don't know we don't know.

END OF QUOTE

by palm tree 19.10.14 14:32

I'm still wondering what that something was that DP was waiting on happening?
Words like this that he'd said
We were waiting for something to happen, but not in our worst nightmare did we think it would be something like this -
Something like what DP?
Then GMs words come to mind also on the bus
F##k off, I'm not here to enjoy myself
Makes me ask why were they going in the first place then?
IMO

by Guest 19.10.14 17:40

Palm Tree - he was referring to the McCanns being made arguidos.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id18.html

by palm tree 19.10.14 17:45

Marian wrote:Palm Tree - he was referring to the McCanns being made arguidos.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id18.html

Ta Marian, was wondering why there's not much mentioned about it! duh

by **Hobs** 19.10.14 18:15

Kate tells us she was in a towel when payne visited after just having had a shower. later we are told she has a bath when gerry returns.

Why would she feel the need to have a shower and a bath?

Why would she need a bath after being visited by a man other than her husband??

Would this explain the discrepancy between her 30 secs and his 30 mins?

A minute or two discrepancy could be expected in a chat for several minutes.

Such a discrepancy is not remotely feasible in a chat that lasted either 30 seconds or 30 minutes.

by Dont Make Me Laff 19.10.14 23:37

Before I answer, please remind me....
What time did KM say they all went back to the apartment? and enroute MBM was very tired and Kate Mc carried her 'home'

YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".

Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

Add it up, and work it out

Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

Dressed or in a towel?

Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".

Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

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