The dogs

by Shhh 28.05.14 20:38

Reading the files and confusing myself. Think there is so much said on forums that things sometimes get confusing.

Regards Eddie -
6 - This dog signalled the lower outside area next to the driver's door of the Renault - 59-DA-27 - that was rented by the McCanns (cf. page 2187 and/or annex 88);

7 - Finally it "marked" the key/card of that vehicle when it was hidden under a fire prevention sand box (cf. page 2187 and/or annex 88);

So Eddie didn't mark in the boot of the car? So madeleines body couldn't have been in the boot? But then fluids/blood found by keela in the boot, if they came from a body wouldn't Eddie alert?

Or is something missing? Got this from the "legal summary" on mccannpjfiles

by Shhh 28.05.14 20:50

Mccannfiles States Eddie did alert in the boot???

by Gillyspot 28.05.14 21:18

From Grime's statement to PJ.

"03.53 ? the dog ?marked? a zone on the right inferior side of the inside of the luggage compartment of the vehicle;"

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DOGS_INSPECTION.htm

by Shhh 28.05.14 21:35

I'm not calling the dogs into question only how accurate the info we have is.

Gerry might think confusion is good but it makes my brian hurt

by Gillyspot 28.05.14 22:03

Shhh wrote:I'm not calling the dogs into question only how accurate the info we have is.

Gerry might think confusion is good but it makes my brian hurt

The link I gave you is from the official police files. There is a video of Eddie alerting to the McCanns' car on the internet too.

by Shhh 28.05.14 22:18

Sorry, I'm having probs viewing that (got about 9 devices running off a crap hub) I did see one of Eddie & the car earlier it cuts off at the end when he's in the boot so don't show a bark.

I'm wondering if this "legal summary" overlooked/chose not to mention Eddie alerting to the boot in it's summing up. It's a summary of condensed facts from the files but it seems such an important thing to leave out. I need to finish reading the summary, got to this bit & now it's got my goat.

I'm getting a new hub delivered by sky soon big grin

by **PeterMac** 28.05.14 22:23

Shhh wrote:Sorry, . ..I did see one of Eddie & the car earlier it cuts off at the end when he's in the boot so don't show a bark.
I'm wondering if this "legal summary" overlooked/chose not to mention Eddie alerting to the boot in it's summing up. It's a summary of condensed facts from the files but it seems such an important thing to leave out. I need to finish reading the summary, got to this bit & now it's got my goat.

I think you do, and then welcome back.

by kimHager 29.05.14 14:48

I also would love to see them bring in more sniffer dogs (RIP Eddie) to see them also alert to these places. To call into question one set is one thing but other dogs noses cant all be wrong... Would love to see Gerry explain how inaccurate they would also be

by Shhh 29.05.14 18:17

Read it, think I get it. I'm not calling anything into account the dogs findings, that bit threw me.

Out of interest what's the best site to read the files in their entirety on? Have read them in the past, starting at the beginning again

by TozerDerry 29.05.14 18:26

This case is fascinating- so much information and so little agreement.

I googled McCann, Scenic and Dogs and came up with this which seems to be a handler report:

Dog inspection report of cars searched in subterranean
garage
Canine Inspection Report
Date 6 and 7 August 2007
Place Underground parking area of 1st of May Square, Portimao.
Participants: three PJ officers; two UK police experts; Eddy and Keela, the English Springer
[Spaniels]
THE ENTIRE WORK WAS RECORDED IN IMAGE AND SOUND [on video]
On 6 August 2007, at 15h17, a canine inspection was performed in the following motor cars, this
being done on level -4 of the above-mentioned underground car park:
[list of cars: Opel Corsa; Fiat Punto; Peugeot 205; Renault Scenic; Skodia Fabia; VW Transporter;
Nissan Patrol; VW Passat; Audi A4; Renault Kangoo.]
Thus, at the hour indicated the work began, with the dog Eddy, that detects cadaver odour,
examining the whole level of the underground car park where the vehicles were parked, it having
been verified the following result:
15h27 - the dog 'marked' car number 4 - Renault Scenic - rental vehicle currently used by Gerry
and Kate McCann.
Thus, the Renault Scenic vehicle was moved to parking level -3 and subjected to an expert
examination by officers from the Police Science Laboratory and another canine inspection that
began at 03h49 on 7 August 2007 by the dog Keela, that detects traces of human blood, it having
been verified the following result:
03h53 - the dog 'marked' an area of the lower right-hand side of the interior part of the baggage
compartment of the car;
04h11 - the dog 'marked' the 'tidy' compartment [map/glove pocket] on the side of the driver's door,
which was found to contain the car key, the plastic electronic card type, with a key-ring of the
Budget rental company.
In order to confirm that the dog had effectively 'marked' the car key, that was found in the
map/glove pocket on the side of the driver's door, at 04h13, that key was retrieved from the car
and concealed in a place far distant from the vehicle on parking level -3 of the underground car
park.
At 04h14, it was verified that the dog 'marked' the area of a sandbox [bucket of sand] of the Fire
System where the car key had been concealed beneath the sand.
At 04h50, a new inspection was performed by Eddy on the parking level -4 where the above car
key was concealed in an area far distant from the vehicle.
At 04h51, it was verified that the dog 'marked' the area of a sandbox [bucket of sand] of the Fire
System where the car key had been concealed beneath the sand.
... the present document has been duly signed:

A I read that Eddy marked the outside of the car but was never put in the car.

by Guest 29.05.14 18:32

TozerDerry wrote:This case is fascinating- so much information and so little agreement.

I googled McCann, Scenic and Dogs and came up with this which seems to be a handler report:

Dog inspection report of cars searched in subterranean
garage
Canine Inspection Report
Date 6 and 7 August 2007
Place Underground parking area of 1st of May Square, Portimao.
Participants: three PJ officers; two UK police experts; Eddy and Keela, the English Springer
[Spaniels]
THE ENTIRE WORK WAS RECORDED IN IMAGE AND SOUND [on video]
On 6 August 2007, at 15h17, a canine inspection was performed in the following motor cars, this
being done on level -4 of the above-mentioned underground car park:
[list of cars: Opel Corsa; Fiat Punto; Peugeot 205; Renault Scenic; Skodia Fabia; VW Transporter;
Nissan Patrol; VW Passat; Audi A4; Renault Kangoo.]
Thus, at the hour indicated the work began, with the dog Eddy, that detects cadaver odour,
examining the whole level of the underground car park where the vehicles were parked, it having
been verified the following result:
15h27 - the dog 'marked' car number 4 - Renault Scenic - rental vehicle currently used by Gerry
and Kate McCann.
Thus, the Renault Scenic vehicle was moved to parking level -3 and subjected to an expert
examination by officers from the Police Science Laboratory and another canine inspection that
began at 03h49 on 7 August 2007 by the dog Keela, that detects traces of human blood, it having
been verified the following result:
03h53 - the dog 'marked' an area of the lower right-hand side of the interior part of the baggage
compartment of the car;
04h11 - the dog 'marked' the 'tidy' compartment [map/glove pocket] on the side of the driver's door,
which was found to contain the car key, the plastic electronic card type, with a key-ring of the
Budget rental company.
In order to confirm that the dog had effectively 'marked' the car key, that was found in the
map/glove pocket on the side of the driver's door, at 04h13, that key was retrieved from the car
and concealed in a place far distant from the vehicle on parking level -3 of the underground car
park.
At 04h14, it was verified that the dog 'marked' the area of a sandbox [bucket of sand] of the Fire
System where the car key had been concealed beneath the sand.
At 04h50, a new inspection was performed by Eddy on the parking level -4 where the above car
key was concealed in an area far distant from the vehicle.
At 04h51, it was verified that the dog 'marked' the area of a sandbox [bucket of sand] of the Fire
System where the car key had been concealed beneath the sand.
... the present document has been duly signed:

A I read that Eddy marked the outside of the car but was never put in the car.

TD could you please put links up when you post information.

by TozerDerry 29.05.14 18:38

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EDDIE-KEELA.htm

by Shhh 29.05.14 18:47

So he didn't, yet there is a video of him doing it so I'm told on Facebook. Guess you can see why I'm confused.

No alert in the boot = no body in the boot which I've thought would be the case, too risky. Fluids yes, from the fridge (back to that again)GA pretty sure the fluids came from a refrigerated body.

But surely the fluids coming from a dead body will smell of death?

Can anyone see the confusion?

Sometimes you see Eddie alerted in the boot as fact. Is it fact?

by sallypelt 29.05.14 19:01

Shhh wrote:So he didn't, yet there is a video of him doing it so I'm told on Facebook. Guess you can see why I'm confused.

No alert in the boot = no body in the boot which I've thought would be the case, too risky. Fluids yes, from the fridge (back to that again)GA pretty sure the fluids came from a refrigerated body.

But surely the fluids coming from a dead body will smell of death?

Can anyone see the confusion?

Sometimes you see Eddie alerted in the boot as fact. Is it fact?

Isn't the "baggage compartment" also the boot?

"03h53 - the dog 'marked' an area of the lower right-hand side of the interior part of the baggage
compartment of the car";

by bobbin 29.05.14 19:43

sallypelt wrote:
Shhh wrote:So he didn't, yet there is a video of him doing it so I'm told on Facebook. Guess you can see why I'm confused.

No alert in the boot = no body in the boot which I've thought would be the case, too risky. Fluids yes, from the fridge (back to that again)GA pretty sure the fluids came from a refrigerated body.

But surely the fluids coming from a dead body will smell of death?

Can anyone see the confusion?

Sometimes you see Eddie alerted in the boot as fact. Is it fact?

Isn't the "baggage compartment" also the boot?

"03h53 - the dog 'marked' an area of the lower right-hand side of the interior part of the baggage
compartment of the car";

that's so right. oh the problems with multi languages... clapping

by Shhh 29.05.14 20:09

sallypelt wrote:
Isn't the "baggage compartment" also the boot?

"03h53 - the dog 'marked' an area of the lower right-hand side of the interior part of the baggage
compartment of the car";

Yes, yes! So sorry, of course it is. ooops

I've got into my head the passenger door, parcel thing on the inside of the door". Which you generally can't get anything in. (I never use the boot & always put my shopping in the passenger footwell.

Right, that's that sorted now.

by Shhh 29.05.14 20:13

Hang on, that baggage compartment bit is in respect of keela if you read it back, or that's how it reads to me.

ARRRGH this is doing my head in lol.

by Shhh 29.05.14 20:23

From mccannpjfiles.co.uk

Ten vehicles were screened in an underground multi storey car park at
Portimao. The vehicles, of which I did not know the owner details, were
parked on an empty floor with 20-30 feet between each. The vehicle
placement video recording and management of the process was conducted
by the PJ. The EVRD was then tasked to search the area. When passing a
vehicle I now know to be hired and in the possession of the McCann family,
the dog's behaviour changed substantially. This then produced an alert
indication at the lower part of the drivers door where the dog was biting and
barking. I recognise this behaviour as the dog indicating scent emitting from
the inside of the vehicle through the seal around the door.

This vehicle was then subjected to a full physical examination by the PJ and
no human remains were found. The CSI dog was then tasked to screen the
vehicle. An alert indication was forthcoming from the rear driver's side of the
boot area. Forensic samples were taken by the PJ and forwarded to a
forensic laboratory in the U.K.

It is my view that it is possible that the EVRD is alerting to 'cadaver scent'
contaminant or human blood scent. No evidential or intelligence reliability can
be made from this alert unless it can be confirmed with corroborating
evidence. The remainder of the vehicles were screened by the EVRD without
any interest being shown. Therefore the CSI dog was not further deployed.

MINISTERIO PUBLICO DE PORTIMAO

SUMMARY

The tasking for this operation was as per my normal Standard Operating
Procedures. The dogs are deployed as search assets to secure evidence and
locate human remains or Human blood.

Seems to confirm what I think I read

by **PeterMac** 08.06.14 15:59

Sky have just done a filler of a golden Labrador detecting bladder cancer from urine samples.

Notoriously Unrelaible, eh Gerry, Janet ? Your own profession use them.
Care to re-think ?

by **PeterMac** 09.06.14 8:15

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/moors-murders-shock-new-hunt-3663622#.U5U7MA1Ma1A.twitter

They are going to use DOGS to look for the remaining victims of the Moors Murderers ! ! !

Sorry Gerry and Janet.

by Guest 09.06.14 8:20

It's the first time I've heard of any undiscovered victims other than Keith Bennett.

by HelenMeg 27.06.14 16:05

Worth a watch - the dog handler and the report on Portuguese news showing and explaining clearly the dog alerts...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENvJULt1OoY&index=66&list=PLDCF22535653D5158

starts off with the portuguese news reporter but moves on shortly - you get talked through the dog alerting in the apartment. I know we've seen some of it before
but this is particularly clear and as reported on the portuguese news.

by jeanmonroe 04.07.15 12:54

http://news.sky.com/story/1512836/human-remains-found-inside-apartment-wall

Raven Joy Campbell, 31, who disappeared in 2009

Human remains have been found inside the walls of an apartment building in California after a tip off to police.

Coroner's office officials went to the property in Lomita and CADAVER DOGS gave a "positive alert" for a body.

So those absolutely UNRELIABLE cadaver dogs 'positively ALERT' to a SIX years old, 'scent'

And surprise, surprise, or not, 'there's a body'!

Take it as read, IF one of the McCann's, two remaining, children went 'missing', they WOULD be the FIRST to 'scream' at LE...........'GET THE 'effing' DOGS IN'!

by Lands_end 04.07.15 13:13

Dogs cannot lie. The breed used in this case were springer spaniels, not just because of their enhanced sense of smell but also they are easy to train to react by rote. I've often wondered this in relation to statistics: The chances of both dogs getting it wrong at the same time are incomprehensible.
lol4

by jeanmonroe 04.07.15 13:30

In the 'terrorist exercise' in London, earlier this week, the MET had TWO Springer spaniels, on 'duty'!

by sallypelt 04.07.15 15:49

jeanmonroe wrote:In the 'terrorist exercise' in London, earlier this week, the MET had TWO Springer spaniels, on 'duty'!

I cannot comment on Wayback too much as I have no idea whether it was a "glitch" or a cover-up, as I am not IT savvy enough to know, but when everything that has happened in this sorry Saga - the dogs were wrong, the contradictions in the statements, the curtains been closed then whooshed etc - the Wayback debacle is just another "coincidence" that just doesn't sit right, in my opinion.

by jeanmonroe 04.07.15 16:39

sallypelt wrote:
jeanmonroe wrote:In the 'terrorist exercise' in London, earlier this week, the MET had TWO Springer spaniels, on 'duty'!
I cannot comment on Wayback too much as I have no idea whether it was a "glitch" or a cover-up, as I am not IT savvy enough to know, but when everything that has happened in this sorry Saga - the dogs were wrong, the contradictions in the statements, the curtains been closed then whooshed etc - the Wayback debacle is just another "coincidence" that just doesn't sit right, in my opinion.

Strange, isn't it, that with 'dogs' being so 'unreliable', that ex IO of OG, should take two (four?) 'dogs' to PDL in June 2014, to 'assist' in his 'digs/searches' in various 'locations' around PDL?

by willowthewisp 05.07.15 12:01

Perhaps OG took special Maddie dogs back to Portugal of an unreliable nature, eh DCI Redwood and boss one Hamish Campbell who thought Guy Fawkes (BG) was to be involved in the killing of Jill Dando, also Hamish was involved with the investigation of the killing of Daniel Morgan, private investigator about to reveal police officers receiving money, illegal payments for information (Rupert M, NoTW)?
With regards to Jill's death, it was reported that she had complained to BBC boss of paedophile case of abuse (JS,CR) and the cover up by the BBC into the initial investigations?
Perhaps this whole saga of Paedophile activity is world-wide phenomenon and if you disbelieve this, then I would suggest you take one look at the trial of rape, murder of child killer Marc Dutrouix and the persons involved in that trial which they tried very hard to suppress!

by jeanmonroe 23.07.15 13:07

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33629983

Bosley Mill 'explosion'

Police said Wednesday was a "significant day for action" at the site with the removal of three silos.

It allowed the search and recovery operation to access an area previously indicated by search dogs, where the body was found.
-------------------------------------
So, the 'body' (RIP) was 'found/located' by yet ANOTHER 'incredibly unreliable' 'sniffer/cadaver' dog, that indicated the body's 'location' BEFORE the three silos were 'removed'.