Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Woofer wrote:
I`ve had a look at the posts, including yours, on truthformadeleine.  Are you suggesting the Mcs may have been scapegoated by a highly professional team of child traffickers ? 
Gerry`s wallet was supposedly stolen at a London train station when he was bending down.
And do we know what photo of Maddie was still in the wallet?

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Hi woofer. Thanks for replying.

Yes, that's what I'm suggesting as one of the two only possibilities I can think of.

As I wrote on the tfm.com site, I find dewdrop's simple shadow analysis more or less completely convincing, and the missing elbow and part of arm shadow something really major. To me it is saying, nearly without doubt, "this photo has been either played around with or made up significantly by a Photoshop style of computer program."

Either the McCanns were involved, or they were victims. Considering I conclude the photo really must have been adjusted or partially concocted, with a shadow missing, I wonder how the McCanns would have missed filling in a shadow if they had done it themselves or arranged for it to be done.

There is no shadow for this part of Gerry's body, which needs to be in the photo on the ground. But, instead, there's a very slight black straight line of shadow around the pool edge lip. It's like a chubby, straight highlighter mark in shadow colour, and doesn't correspond in position or shape with any real body or clothing parts.

Shadow analysis, last photo again:

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G1 wrote:

Woofer wrote:
I`ve had a look at the posts, including yours, on truthformadeleine.  Are you suggesting the Mcs may have been scapegoated by a highly professional team of child traffickers ? 
Gerry`s wallet was supposedly stolen at a London train station when he was bending down.
And do we know what photo of Maddie was still in the wallet?

---

Hi woofer. Thanks for replying.

Yes, that's what I'm suggesting as one of the two only possibilities I can think of.

As I wrote on the tfm.com site, I find dewdrop's simple shadow analysis more or less completely convincing, and the missing elbow and part of arm shadow something really major. To me it is saying, nearly without doubt, "this photo has been either played around with or made up significantly by a Photoshop style of computer program."

Either the McCanns were involved, or they were victims. Considering I conclude the photo really must have been adjusted or partially concocted, with a shadow missing, I wonder how the McCanns would have missed filling in a shadow if they had done it themselves or arranged for it to be done.

There is no shadow for this part of Gerry's body, which needs to be in the photo on the ground. But, instead, there's a very slight black straight line of shadow around the pool edge lip. It's like a chubby, straight highlighter mark in shadow colour, and doesn't correspond in position or shape with any real body or clothing parts.

Shadow analysis, last photo again:

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G1 wrote:OK.

Re. The dogs - I just read this within the last day or two, by chance - that the very same dogs were used in the Haut de Garenne site in Jersey, identifying human remains outside. The videos made for the Madeleine case show one or both of the dogs being able to identify the scent of human remains on placed items in a test set-up. Their accuracy was said to be close to perfect, even for bodies left years ago. But no remains or items related to remains were found anywhere on site. Only animal remains, I think it was said, where the dogs alerted.

Also, I guess it may be though I'm going too far with my theory here. (But I don't think so, for a most professional gang perhaps dealing with money in the millions of Euros  for their fees.) Couldn't they have planted an item related to advanced human cadaver scent (or actually a dead animal) in the closet for an hour some day or night the McCanns were out? 

The possibility is there and ought at least to be mentioned. If you're dealing with professionals and millions of Euros, this is not too far fetched. Remember, when the 2010 news came out of the multiple sightings of girls thought to be very like Madeleine which the Portuguese police kept to themselves? It was discovered people calling in sightings were told by the PPJ, "Madeleine is dead. There is no way you saw Madeleine McCann." Isn't this exactly what an organised group would have tried to set up? How? One way is cadaver in the apartment and especially in the car after the disappearance.

Also, I don't think the Kate's coat as a potential explanation for cadaver is a dud at all. She was said to be examining multiple dead bodies in the weeks before the holiday. It's a coat in hot weather. It goes over the sofa, in the wardrobe and in the hire car boot - but nowhere else - out of the way, untouched. 

For me, the two possibilities and what may be false alerts in the dogs' past is enough to exclude cadaver as  evidence which could be in a category of rather conclusive to any guilt of the McCanns. For me, it doesn't seem close to being potentially conclusive evidence against the McCanns.

aquila wrote:

G1 wrote:OK.

Re. The dogs - I just read this within the last day or two, by chance - that the very same dogs were used in the Haut de Garenne site in Jersey, identifying human remains outside. The videos made for the Madeleine case show one or both of the dogs being able to identify the scent of human remains on placed items in a test set-up. Their accuracy was said to be close to perfect, even for bodies left years ago. But no remains or items related to remains were found anywhere on site. Only animal remains, I think it was said, where the dogs alerted.

Also, I guess it may be though I'm going too far with my theory here. (But I don't think so, for a most professional gang perhaps dealing with money in the millions of Euros  for their fees.) Couldn't they have planted an item related to advanced human cadaver scent (or actually a dead animal) in the closet for an hour some day or night the McCanns were out? 

The possibility is there and ought at least to be mentioned. If you're dealing with professionals and millions of Euros, this is not too far fetched. Remember, when the 2010 news came out of the multiple sightings of girls thought to be very like Madeleine which the Portuguese police kept to themselves? It was discovered people calling in sightings were told by the PPJ, "Madeleine is dead. There is no way you saw Madeleine McCann." Isn't this exactly what an organised group would have tried to set up? How? One way is cadaver in the apartment and especially in the car after the disappearance.

Also, I don't think the Kate's coat as a potential explanation for cadaver is a dud at all. She was said to be examining multiple dead bodies in the weeks before the holiday. It's a coat in hot weather. It goes over the sofa, in the wardrobe and in the hire car boot - but nowhere else - out of the way, untouched. 

For me, the two possibilities and what may be false alerts in the dogs' past is enough to exclude cadaver as  evidence which could be in a category of rather conclusive to any guilt of the McCanns. For me, it doesn't seem close to being potentially conclusive evidence against the McCanns.

Have you had enough fun on the forum now?

rainbowonfairy wrote:

Re HdL in Jersey, whether or not anything was *dug up* is immaterial, it certainly points to a body/bodies being there for the dog to alert to. 
A very interesting piece on here has been posted on here, an interview with Lenny Harper, was iirc posted by aquila about the dogs at HdL (I can't remember which thread now - if anyone can locate the post, that would be great)

worriedmum wrote:G1 writes ''Also, I don't think the Kate's coat as a potential explanation for cadaver is a dud at all. She was said to be examining multiple dead bodies in the weeks before the holiday. It's a coat in hot weather. It goes over the sofa, in the wardrobe and in the hire car boot - but nowhere else - out of the way, *untouched. ''


But what about Cuddlecat? The tyre well of the car? The flower bed?

Oh, I see. You are saying it is easily transferable?

In that case, why wasn't it all over everything?

Can you have it both ways, G1?

* latex gloves lol?


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Hi worriedmum.

About Kate's coat, I only think it was a possible explanation for scent, but the most important thing is ONE possible explanation, and the least likely of them. When there are a few, the cadaver scent does not remain something so convincing anymore.

why wasn't it all over everything?

In case Kate could have picked up cadaver scent on the coat in attending a morgue or morgues / deceased body scenes 6 times in a short time, then the places of cadaver scent in the Ocean Club flat may correspond with a coat.

It wasn't over everything because the coat ia likely only to have been worn or carried coming in the first time. (Or maybe another evening, but it's unlikely for a winter coat.) It would have been draped on the sofa, maybe just once, for an evening, then put away in the closet for the whole holiday, later put in the car boot. Perhaps it was draped on the terrace, maybe fell, hence alert at the flower bed. But these things do seem, possibly, corresponding to where a coat would be.

Just possibilities. I think this is a possibility. That's important when you think a certain piece of evidence is beyond doubt. I see the cadaver scent is easily doubted.

I have read some experts saying transfer of cadaver scent to clothing at morgues is possible depending on the length of time involved and what was going on. We don't know about that, so can only guess whether or not the coat can have been in enough contact to keep a bit of cadaver scent.

Remember, the dogs handler has said the dogs will alert to even a tiny bit of scent transferred to clothing or something else.

Again, I prefer the other explanation for cadaver - it may have been planted. But that more than one are possibble suggests to me there is nothing so strong in the cadaver evidence.

(Re. 'Cuddlecat', I thought it was fishy until I saw the dogs did not alert to cuddlecat first time, the toy was ignored and tossed away though stuffed in a dog's nose. Only when the toy was placed in the closet where there was cadaver found already did the dog 'alert' to it.)

G1 wrote:

worriedmum wrote:G1 writes ''Also, I don't think the Kate's coat as a potential explanation for cadaver is a dud at all. She was said to be examining multiple dead bodies in the weeks before the holiday. It's a coat in hot weather. It goes over the sofa, in the wardrobe and in the hire car boot - but nowhere else - out of the way, *untouched. ''


But what about Cuddlecat? The tyre well of the car? The flower bed?

Oh, I see. You are saying it is easily transferable?

In that case, why wasn't it all over everything?

Can you have it both ways, G1?

* latex gloves lol?


---

Hi worriedmum.

About Kate's coat, I only think it was a possible explanation for scent, but the most important thing is ONE possible explanation, and the least likely of them. When there are a few, the cadaver scent does not remain something so convincing anymore.

why wasn't it all over everything?

In case Kate could have picked up cadaver scent on the coat in attending a morgue or morgues / deceased body scenes 6 times in a short time, then the places of cadaver scent in the Ocean Club flat may correspond with a coat.

It wasn't over everything because the coat ia likely only to have been worn or carried coming in the first time. (Or maybe another evening, but it's unlikely for a winter coat.) It would have been draped on the sofa, maybe just once, for an evening, then put away in the closet for the whole holiday, later put in the car boot. Perhaps it was draped on the terrace, maybe fell, hence alert at the flower bed. But these things do seem, possibly, corresponding to where a coat would be.

Just possibilities. I think this is a possibility. That's important when you think a certain piece of evidence is beyond doubt. I see the cadaver scent is easily doubted.

I have read some experts saying transfer of cadaver scent to clothing at morgues is possible depending on the length of time involved and what was going on. We don't know about that, so can only guess whether or not the coat can have been in enough contact to keep a bit of cadaver scent.

Remember, the dogs handler has said the dogs will alert to even a tiny bit of scent transferred to clothing or something else.

Again, I prefer the other explanation for cadaver - it may have been planted. But that more than one are possibble suggests to me there is nothing so strong in the cadaver evidence.

(Re. 'Cuddlecat', I thought it was fishy until I saw the dogs did not alert to cuddlecat first time, the toy was ignored and tossed away though stuffed in a dog's nose. Only when the toy was placed in the closet where there was cadaver found already did the dog 'alert' to it.)

G1 wrote:I thought there may have been a good few reasonable dismisaals of the theory I've considered. But andrew77r, just "a load of old tosh" when it all makes rational sense in the land of possibility won't come close to a reasonable dismissal.

Dee Coy wrote:

G1 wrote:I thought there may have been a good few reasonable dismisaals of the theory I've considered. But andrew77r, just "a load of old tosh" when it all makes rational sense in the land of possibility won't come close to a reasonable dismissal.

There's indisputable evidence that completely debunks your bunkum. I take it you haven't read tasprin's link yet? Do. It'll save you a lot of wasted thought and embarrassment.

G1 wrote:KM, I think everyone knows Kate was not a pathologist.

I've read a former GP saying the 6 bodies in a short time seems very unusual, but not impossible.

However, it is what Kate has claimed, and I can't believe, 
1. That that wouldn't be checked by police when a famous dog seems to be saying "definite dead body scent in there, strangely". It MUST have been checked out.

2. Or that Kate wouldn't be totally certain the police would check her statement about visiting 6 dead bodies when accused of keeping a dead body, publicised all over the world. It seems to me she would be insane to lie about something that must be going to be checked out by police, where if she was found to have lied, everything is over. The McCanns wouldn't be so stupid. Simply, if she was responsible for what happened to Madeleine, and then lied about 6 dead bodies, it's sudden suicide. She would know that. 

So - either there were morgue visits and hospital / home visit deceased people, 6 of them. 

Or - there is a huge conspiracy involving at least the British police who are protecting the McCanns.

I'm not saying everything's right and expectable with the world or the police, but I prefer the former possibility.

G1
I'm not saying everything's right and expectable with the world or the police, but