McCanns Easter break Donegal 2007

I've recently been taking a much closer look at the media reporting on the Mccanns trip to Donegal and their connections with the area. I've re-read all the articles I can find (mainly Belfast telegraph). The many contradictions and inconsistencies are shocking, not to mention very misleading. I'll address those points later, I just wondered if someone could help with this bit first.

Eileen McCann reportedly still owns a pub in St Johnston (Donegal). The person that apparently runs the bar for her is Mr Joe peoples. Joe Peoples is also the main McCann spokesperson that gave out info to the press regarding their Donegal trip and the family's connections to the area.

St Johnston is a tiny village, (population 479 in 2006) so it shouldn't be too hard to find this pub, but I can't, I can't find any mention of it outside the reporting of the McCann case and the one link quoted below. It makes it harder because the pub doesn't seem to have a name. Some reports call it 'Joes bar' some call it 'Peoples bar' but still I can't find it. I did find a Joseph Peoples in St Johnston, but he runs a Funeral Directors! There's also a Joe peoples high up in the County Council, but no publican by that name. It must exist, maybe I'm just being dumb and not looking in the right places. I'd be really grateful if anyone has any info that might point me in the right direction?

This is the only other mention I can find of the pub:

"Joe’s Bar, St Johnston belongs to Madeline McCann’s grandmother, Eileen McCann.
On the early hours of St Patrick’s Day, 2008, the pub was raided for the 12th
time. The thieves rammed in the back door of the pub and took all the stock
they could get barring a bottle of gin. They turned on the beer taps to let the
beer run out. Joe discovered the damage and the back door lying in the garden
when he checked on the pub after 7.30 am Lenten Mass. Eileen McCann was the
wife of the late John and they ran the pub under the name of McCann’s Bar and
there was a living quarters then above the pub. They decided to lease it to Joe
27 years ago. Mrs McCann had been in the area and visited the pub at the
weekend. The pub had been ram raided in November 2007 when Joe was in the
hospital at the time. After that incident, a steel security door had been put
up."

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Thanks happychick, I've read all those links. They're all connected to the McCann case; can you find anything about this pub that doesn't mention the McCanns - anything?

I have been looking at google maps and have come up with the following: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The kegs of beer and the "guinness" sign seem to point to this being the bar, but it is the weirdest pub/bar I have seen!

The St Johnston and Carrigans website claims that 'Joe's Bar' was on Main Street. I've been 'virtually' up and down that road using google maps street view and can only find one pub - Tolands Bar.

Here's a reminder of a photo supposedly taken on this holiday in Donegal. It didn't appear anywhere till 2008 and, in my opinion, looking at the apparent ages of the twins, that may be when it was actually taken!

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But Madeleine's in the photo, so how can it have been taken in 2008?

I have doubts aboiut this photo too. There are so many photos which supposedly are of Madeleine but in all probability aren't. So this could be a lookalike cousin or simply another photoshopped effort.

Thank you Thetruthwillout & lady H. I've searched all up & down Main st too and couldn't find anything. The link truthwill gives does look like it could be a pub though, and it's on Main st, perhaps this is it? It doesn't appear to be on a corner though and according to Joe Peoples: "Our pub is on the corner of a road so it is dangerous for
children. We kept a sharp eye on them."

I'm baffled by this. Gerry's father John was reportedly born in this pub, so it must be quite an old establishment. Why so little info about it, no photos, no reviews, nothing!

I found the exact location that photo was taken in (the one outside the bookmakers). It looks mighty different now, wonder when it was refurbished. Sorry don't know how to post photos but I'll try and find the link.

Edit: It's here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Here's the link to the photo opposite the betting shop. I can't post photos either! Perhaps someone could put them side by side; thank you.

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Now dealing with the discrepencies. How many people attended the "gathering"?

Gerry & Kate McCann:

" "There were 27 of us in all and we took three cottages in Dunloe",

"Madeleine's aunt, Philomena McCann, revealed last year that 46 family and friends enjoyed the holiday in Donegal"(staying in B&B's)

27? 46? Whatever. Either way, such a huge gathering of family and close friends but only 2 photographs?

Wonder if the Paynes or any other members of the Tapas group were there?

According to the mccannfiles [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Jo Peoples leases a pub called The Fishermans Pub. This one is listed as being on Main St too, at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] . I can see the odd little building now with the Guinness sign, next to a little chapel or church? It's not on a corner though as you say, whereas the Toland pub is. All quite odd IMO!

Lady-Heather wrote:According to the mccannfiles [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Jo Peoples leases a pub called The Fishermans Pub. This one is listed as being on Main St too, at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] . I can see the odd little building now with the Guinness sign, next to a little chapel or church? It's not on a corner though as you say, whereas the Toland pub is. All quite odd IMO!

Very odd!

Quoting Joe Peoples: "The bar hasn't got a name as such because the older people would still
call it McCann's and the younger people would call Joe's."
Read more: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Marian wrote:Here's a reminder of a photo supposedly taken on this holiday in Donegal. It didn't appear anywhere till 2008 and, in my opinion, looking at the apparent ages of the twins, that may be when it was actually taken!

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There is another one from Donegal as well, unless the twins and Maddie are able to shrink like Alice in Wonderland this ain't gonna work.
Yes, so clever of you, of course this could have been taken in 2008 with either a stand-in for Maddie ( when smiling and with a similar hairdo, it's not easy to distinguish similar people) or Maddie photoshopped in, judging by the body I'd say at least 6 or 7 years old. Twins 3 - 4 yrs. That works fine.
So we have either two sets of twins and two Maddies, or we have a later date and a stand in.
Maddie is holding the icecream in a weird position, it will hit her nose by the looks of it.

It seems very odd that, if these photos were really taken in 2007, only a month before Madeleine "disappeared", that they were not released then. I'm trying to visualise the face of the "tennis ball" girl and finding it hard to believe they could be the same child. The strange way that the ice cream is being held has been commented on before; it is possible with the thumbs at the back to support it but a child might find it difficult.

Now we have the puzzle over whether the McCann family pub actually exists, this is so bizarre!

i think maddie looks very like the poolside girl maybe a little older.
how do we know there arent more photos of this break? because they choose to release only one or two does not mean more are not in existence. not sure of point being made here...

Do the McCanns still have relatives in Donegal? I haven't come across one interview or quote from any family member in Ireland. It's always Mr Peoples and he's either being deliberately misquoted or he's making the story up as he goes along. He changes his mind from one interview to another (often in the same newspaper!).

"According to the current owner (Joe Peoples) of McCann's bar on the main street in the
middle of the village of St Johnston, the family were regular visitors
to the area although they no longer had relatives in Donegal."

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Local publican Joe Peoples said: "They called into the pub on their way to the airport."

"I believe they spent a while in Crolly as well. They have quite a few
relations there. They still keep very much in touch with the place
because of the family connections."

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Phil McCann: “But we still
have friends in St Johnston and we
go back a lot." (note she says 'friends' & not relatives)

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Again in the Belfast Telegraph:

"The McCanns left Donegal in 1967, and Maddy’s father Gerry was born
later in England, but the family still have relatives and friends in the
county."

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Sorry if this info appears messy and disjointed, it's tricky trying to pull it all together in a coherent way; there's so many holes and contradictions in the the whole Donegal connection, it's not funny.

There's plenty more examples but I'll leave it there for now and go back to trying to locate this elusive Joe Peoples bar/Joe's bar/Peoples bar/Mccanns bar [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

russiandoll wrote:i think maddie looks very like the poolside girl maybe a little older.
how do we know there arent more photos of this break? because they choose to release only one or two does not mean more are not in existence. not sure of point being made here...

It's not merely a lack of photos though russiandoll. We have no right to demand to see private photos, I know that. (although this trip took place just 7 weeks before Madeleine disappeared and undoubtedly these would have been some of the last photos taken of her). No, it's all the other inconsistencies that are bothering me. And the fact that I can't find this bloody pub! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Edit: Sorry make that 3 weeks not 7

Yes there could have been other photos taken in Donegal (nobody has suggested otherwise) but I'm surprised that it took a year to release just a couple of them. Such recent photos would have been very relevant in May 2007. There is also the problem that so few photos have been issued of the PDL holiday itself. Apart from the grainy airport mobile phone footage there are none of the whole family, not even any of the three children together and those that there are are all of very doubtful authenticity.

The mysterious Joe Peoples definitely sounds like a friend of the McCanns with his constantly changing stories.

Marian wrote:Yes there could have been other photos taken in Donegal (nobody has suggested otherwise) but I'm surprised that it took a year to release just a couple of them. Such recent photos would have been very relevant in May 2007. There is also the problem that so few photos have been issued of the PDL holiday itself. Apart from the grainy airport mobile phone footage there are none of the whole family, not even any of the three children together and those that there are are all of very doubtful authenticity.

The mysterious Joe Peoples definitely sounds like a friend of the McCanns with his constantly changing stories.

Thank you for noting the mysteriousness of Joe Peoples Marian, that means it's not me going mad. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Who is he? I really don't know. I've spent a fair bit of my precious time trying to find out but to no avail. I know there's a lot more falsehoods apparently attributed to Mr Peoples but I'm concerned I'm making it all too confusing, (it is!) so I'll leave the rest til tomorrow.

Like I posted earlier, the only Joe Peoples I could find running a business in the tiny village of St Johnston (population in 2006 - 479) is Joseph Peoples Funeral Director & a Joe Peoples - senior staff member Donegal County Council

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I was very curious about this topic and did a little searching and found this. It's a "Joe's Bar" about 14k away, but not in St. Johnston and not on a corner. It clearly says "Joe's Bar" on the window, though. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

According to the link below, there are four bars or pubs in St Johnston!

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From the position on the map shown in the yelp.ie link above, it appears that the closest visible pub - going by Google street view - is probably the odd little pub with the beer barrels and Guiness sign.

tumbleweed wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I was very curious about this topic and did a little searching and found this. It's a "Joe's Bar" about 14k away, but not in St. Johnston and not on a corner. It clearly says "Joe's Bar" on the window, though. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Hi tumbleweed, and

The pub is called fishermanns . there is no accurat adress but there is a phonenumber.

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Also refered to as peoples bar

People's Bar of Óstan Thóriagh

The People's Bar social scene at the hotel captures the very essence of Tory Island folklore. What you witness is not only to be seen to be believed but is every bit as genuine as the personalities of the people of Tory themselves. The social scene has not been manufactured or devised to promote a fairytale image of Tory Island for you to take home - it is Tory Island folklore.

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Found under Water, Environment & Emergency Services
His mail adress?`jpeoples@donegalcoco.ie
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Found this too, which suggests it's called Joe's bar. I think this poor pub is going through some identity crisis:

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You need to type in 'number' 380962 and make sure you select the 'search for' - "Both" option.

Get your point now ....of course it would have made perfect sense to put an up to date photo of Maddie in the public domain....it smacks of the same odd behaviour after she disappeared, releasing one where she looked much younger. I was clearly tired when I came here last night.......not to see the obvious point being made!

I decided to compare this picture:
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With Google Streetview images. I think it is interesting? We have a red painted house, "Tully Bookmakers" appears dark green with gold letters and "Edward Boyle &" is visible, and the reported date of this picture is mid-April 2007?
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This picture now has the red house now painted cream/beige? The sign's letters look completely different and "Edward Boyle &" is covered. Which would all be fine except, the Grey 4X4 in the foreground is, I believe, a Nissan Quasqai which wasn't launched in the UK/Ireland until late Feb 2007.
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In this picture the house is still not red. On the left hand side of the picture you will see, I believe, a white Ford Kuga 4X4, which wasn't launched in the UK/Ireland until April 2008.
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A closer look at the "Tully Bookmaker" sign. The same sign and colours as the one above with the grey 4X4.

To conclude: between late Feb 2007 to at least April 2008 the Tully bookmakers and it's neighbour don't appear to have changed.

That means the photo of the children at the beginning of this post must have been either:
1, Taken before Feb 2007 or sometime after April 2008.
2, Be Photoshopped
3, Or it is the wrong location. (I don't believe this)

My money would be on number 2. But *why* Photoshop it? It just baffles me.

Sorry for the long post! If I have messed anything up, please let me know

tumbleweed wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I was very curious about this topic and did a little searching and found this. It's a "Joe's Bar" about 14k away, but not in St. Johnston and not on a corner. It clearly says "Joe's Bar" on the window, though. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Thanks tumbleweed and welcome. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Yes, I agree with Lady heather, this is most likely the place, but not on a street corner hmmm. Is there anyway you can show a close up of the "Joe's Bar" sign? No probs if not, I know I couldn't.

@ Moa, I don't believe the Fisherman's Inn is the same place, nor the hotel that you linked to, that appears to be on an island.

@ Lady Heather. That link is very useful, cheers. Although I'm confused as to why 2 businesses would have the same number?

NameNumberAddressType

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	380962	MAIN STREET ST. JOHNSTON LIFFORD CO. DONEGAL	B
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	380962	CARBED CARROWMORE LACKEN BALLINA CO. MAYO	C

Check out the effective date on company details, does this mean the Bar was only registered in 2009?

ype	Business Name
Number	380962
Name	JOE'S BAR
Address	MAIN STREET ST. JOHNSTON LIFFORD CO. DONEGAL
Registered	06/03/2009
Status	Normal Effective date: 06/03/2009

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