Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus *UPDATE* CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

by GRACEFUL1 16.06.13 11:02

candyfloss wrote:I have merged your topic GRACEFUL 1 with this thread as it is roughly the same story.

Thank you so much.

by GRACEFUL1 16.06.13 11:09

plebgate wrote:Thanks for posting Graceful1.

So this witness believes the weirdo with the sunglasses is involved with Maddie's abduction because the weirdo stood watching him whilst he picked up some sheets.

Yeah that's right, any would be abductor would stand there and let a potential witness get a full look at him, so that one day the witness would be able to give detectives a full description especially as he was so weird looking with a big fat face. ha ha ha.

Oh please stop this dung now.

You're most welcome plebgate...

by loopzdaloop 16.06.13 11:20

Tony Bennett wrote:Loopzdaloop commented:

"I'm a bit sick of seeing people complain about the cost of this investigation. How much do people think it should cost? It's cost a similar amount for the police to stand watch outside the embassy that Julian Assange is holed up in, so therefore as they have been doing something active it is actually good value for money.

I'm particularly surprised at Mr Tony Bennett commenting upon the cost considering part of his defence previously was about the 'inequality of arms'. Thankfully in this country, it does not matter how much money, power or connections you have, the police will be supported to carry out investigations in the manner that they see fit.

Everyone here…needs to start reading between the lines at what this actually means.

What are the police actually saying by this?"

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Reply: We are all trying to read between the lines, but these lines are so impenetrable and vague that it’s hard for anyone to read between them, and it’s hardly surprising if people disagree.

I go not so much by what is said about the Scotland Yard Review Team, but by their own words and actions.

You ask: “What are the police actually saying by this?” Have you observed, loopzdaloop, that this is not a formal announcement by Scotland Yard, but yet another apparently significant announcement carefully and selectively leaked just to one mainstream media editor – a pattern we have seen repeated so often in this case for 6 years.

You also referred to the police ‘being supported to carry out investigations in the manner that they see fit’.

But that’s not what’s happened here, is it? The Metropolitan Police had no intention of carrying out a review of this case, until Rupert Murdoch’s CEO Rebekah Brooks (who was running a serialisation of the book ‘madeliene’ in one of their newspapers) threatened/persuaded the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland with ‘a week of bad headlines about Theresa May, the Home Secretary, if he did not order the Met to carry out a review as demanded by the McCanns (and up to now Theresa May had refused, to the evidence frustration of the McCanns).

The £4.9 million or so that’s already been spent on this review had to be diverted (quite probably against the wishes of the police) from other parts of the police/Home Office budget.

Two years ago, I raised the issue of whether Scotland Yard was a suitable force to carry out this review, even if any review was ever likely to get anywhere:

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] on Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:57 pm

Considerations:

1. The Met failed to investigate 'phone hacking

2. Stephenson, and Assistant Commissioners Heyman and Yates accepted hospitality, dinners etc. from the Murdoch executives, at a time when they were investigating crimes by the NOTW

3. Hayman went on, after retiring, to receive large sums for writing in Murdoch papers

4. Stephenson appointed arrested NOTW executive Niall Wallis and paid him £1,000 a day for 'advice' and speech-writing - and didn't tell the Met Police Authority

5. The Met failed to investigate payments by NOTW to police for informtation after Rebekah Brooks admitted them to a Commons Select Committee

6. Stephenson accepted free care at Champneys, whose marketing company was owned by Niall Wallis [NOTW Executive]

7. Stephenson accepted directions from David Cameron and Theresa May to spend £3.5 million in a Madeleine McCann Review whose awowed intention was 'to support the family'

8. The announcement of the Scotland Yard Review was made by David Cameron in the Sun, who simultaneously published Dr Gerald McCann's letter asking for a Review

9. The Sun serialised Dr Kate McCann's book: 'madeleine'

I would argue that Scotland Yard and the met are actually on a high at the moment following the Stephen Lawrence killers being brought to justice. Following Hillsborough all coming out and viewing what happened to the people that managed the coverup, i dont think that there will be any appetite to go down the same route. If so, for what purpose?
Scotland Yard aren't opposed to arresting the high profile anymore either, hence the nations favourite, Rolf Harris and the most devious manipulator of spin ever being arrested, Max Clifford.
If there is any point in history where the 'public' can face a shock than this is the time!
The tentacles are retreating... Its a long time since I've seen a hardcore Troll.
Although this narrative on a whitewash is an interesting perspective held by many and the only function I can see of it is to attempt to discredit Scotland Yard in the same manner as 'bumbling, sardine eating portugese led By disgraced Amarel' does.

We must also remember that there has been no leaks from scotland yard which is evidence of a high degree of professionalism.
The other thing that appears to upset people here is the belief the Mccanns are being kept 'informed'.
If anyone thinks that they are priviledged to more info then we have then they are misguided. The mccanns wont know where the case is going or be able to attend any briefings. There will just be a liason officer to listen to cocerns and tell the mccanns they are doing everythig they can but can't comment on various aspects until the review/investigation is complete. If the Mccanns did know anything it would have been spun by Clarence by now!

by Cheshire Cat 16.06.13 12:01

When the review was announced I thought 'whitewash'.

Nothing since then has changed my initial view.

With the political will and full assistance from the UK authorities the case could and should be re-opened in Portugal.

I can see no need for Scotland Yard to lead on this case! (other than to finally clear the McCann's and ensure all views to the contrary are stamped out. If SY 'own' the files will they be erased from the internet because of an on going UK investigation?)

And as for SY having the appetite to arrest high profile offenders of children....many argue they are going for the soft targets to appease the public.

Perhaps one day in the future an MP or group of MP's may have the guts to raise the Maddie question in the Commons but if that day ever comes it will be a long time in the future.

by **Tony Bennett** 16.06.13 12:04

loopzdaloop wrote:I would argue that Scotland Yard and the met are actually on a high at the moment following the Stephen Lawrence killers being brought to justice. Following Hillsborough all coming out and viewing what happened to the people that managed the coverup, i dont think that there will be any appetite to go down the same route. If so, for what purpose? Scotland Yard aren't opposed to arresting the high profile anymore either, hence the nations favourite, Rolf Harris and the most devious manipulator of spin ever being arrested, Max Clifford. If there is any point in history where the 'public' can face a shock than this is the time!

Valid points, loopz, but they don't remove my scepticism about this particular review-soon-to-be-investigation.

The tentacles are retreating... Its a long time since I've seen a hardcore Troll.

Give some credit to Admin

Although this narrative on a whitewash is an interesting perspective held by many and the only function I can see of it is to attempt to discredit Scotland Yard in the same manner as 'bumbling, sardine eating portugese led by disgraced Amarel' does.

No-one wants to discredit Scotland Yard, but IMO they have done little so far to justify faith in them.

The money if put into perspective with the cost of guarding Julian Assange is good value for money! Also, this appears to be how much things cost. We employ those people, considered the elite of our nation's police for a reason and if they ought to be investigating anything, surely this case meets that criteria. If not, what is the threshold of a case until people should be working on it? These people would be paid anyway, but what the funds from government are doing is making sure the Met doesnt take the hit for it. Its like a transfer in football!

The search for Madeleine has cost over £20 million to date, all toid, and after that mammoth expenditure, none of us have one usable snippet of usable information to tell us who might have taken her or where to.

We must also remember that there has been no leaks from Scotland Yard which is evidence of a high degree of professionalism.

Hold on a minute, loopz. Have you missed these very obvious, deliberate leaks of possible suspects and people they want to elminate/question etc.:

1. A soothing couple

2. Up to 20 manual workers

3. Six British men travelling around in a white van

4. Mario and 'Two Tone Fatface' man.

Where do you suggest that these leaks come from? - and do you not believe that they either come from Scotland Yard or are sanctioned by them?

The other thing that appears to upset people here is the belief the Mccanns are being kept 'informed'. If anyone thinks that they are privileded to more info then we have then they are misguided.

But we have on-the-record confirmation many times over from Scotland Yard that there have been 'many meetings' between the McCanns and members of Operation Grange - and we had a detailed description of the many days spent by the McCanns, especially Dr Kate McCann, assisting Grange to come up with an age-progressed artist'ss sketch/photofit of Madeleine looking 9 yeras old.

The mccanns wont know where the case is going or be able to attend any briefings. There will just be a liason officer to listen to concerns and tell the McCanns they are doing everything they can but can't comment on various aspects until the review/investigation is complete. If the McCanns did know anything it would have been spun by Clarence by now!

I concede it is possible that you are right but bear in mind my comments above about the numbers of meetings the McCanns have already had, on the record, with senior members of Grange]

by loopzdaloop 16.06.13 12:06

Cheshire Cat wrote:When the review was announced I thought 'whitewash'.

Nothing since then has changed my initial view.

With the political will and full assistance from the UK authorities the case could and should be re-opened in Portugal.

I can see no need for Scotland Yard to lead on this case! (other than to finally clear the McCann's and ensure all views to the contrary are stamped out. If SY 'own' the files will they be erased from the internet because of an on going UK investigation?)

And as for SY having the appetite to arrest high profile offenders of children....many argue they are going for the soft targets to appease the public.

Perhaps one day in the future an MP or group of MP's may have the guts to raise the Maddie question in the Commons but if that day ever comes it will be a long time in the future.

are Rolf Harris and Max Clifford 'soft' targets ?

by **Tony Bennett** 16.06.13 12:16

TWO-TONE, FATFACE MAN

First, the two reports, the Sunday Express today, and the Daily Mirror, 29 May 2013

EXPRESS

Yard officers have spoken at length to those witnesses who have given new information, helping them piece together some of the missing pieces of the jigsaw.

Now the squad wants the authority to take full control of the investigation so that all its leads can be thoroughly examined. Last month witness Mario Fernando, 47, urged Yard officers to speak to him about a man he saw lurking near Kate and Gerry’s holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on the Algarve.

Laundryman Mr Fernando said he saw the suspicious, nervous-looking man with big sunglasses on May 2, 2007, the night before their three-year-old daughter Madeleine vanished.

He said last month: “I was at my last collection point near the girl’s flat. It was 7.30pm to 8pm.

“When cleaners cleared sheets they dropped them down the hole in the stairs to be collected by me at the bottom. When I walked down and turned into the hole to get the laundry, I saw the weird guy and we nearly bumped into each other.

“He had a really fat face and had two-tone sunglasses on. They got lighter at the bottom and were big.

“He did not walk away but watched what I did. He stayed there watching me. My theory is that the guy must have been involved.”

MIRROR

PIC: He is convinced the lurker was involved in the kidnap and spoke out after the Daily Mirror visited his home in the Algarve - Ready to talk: Laundryman Mario Fernando happy to speak to cops

Andy Stenning / Daily Mirror

A vital witness has revealed he saw a man wearing sunglasses lurking in a stairwell near Madeleine McCann’s apartment 24 hours before she vanished.
Mario Fernando, 47, told Portuguese cops about the “weird” stranger lurking at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz but has never been quizzed by British police or spoken publicly.

Now, six years after Madeleine disappeared, the laundryman has urged British detectives to speak to him.

Mario believes the man he saw the night before three-year-old Madeleine disappeared in May 2007 should be on Scotland Yard’s list too.

The divorced dad, who said he has always felt “uncomfortable” about the Portuguese police inquiry, spoke out after the Daily Mirror tracked him down at his home in the Algarve this week.

He also believes he may be one of 12 manual workers and cleaners Scotland Yard detectives have identified as “people of interest”.

PIC: Scene: Stairwell where Mario saw lurking stranger

Mario recalls a “nervous” man wearing big sunglasses hiding in a stairwell seconds away from the holiday apartment where parents Gerry and Kate were staying with their three children.

The laundryman is convinced the lurker was involved in the kidnap.

Part of Mario’s role at the Ocean Club was to collect dirty sheets from apartment blocks and drive them to the laundry room beneath the Tapas bar where the McCanns were when Maddy disappeared.

He said: “I was at my last collection point near the girl’s flat. I was always rushing. I’d park the van any-where.

"It was 7.30pm to 8pm. When cleaners cleared sheets they dropped them down the hole in the stairs to be collected by me at the bottom.

“When I walked down and turned into the hole to get the laundry, I saw the weird guy and we nearly bumped into each other. He was embarrassed. He looked nervous.

“He was walking out from the hole under the stairs and must have been much further inside but had taken several steps after hearing me coming. We were, like, dodging each other.

“He had a really fat face and had two-tone sunglasses on, they got lighter at the bottom and were big. I will never forget those glasses.

“There was no reason for him to be there and no reason to wear the glasses as it was dark under the stairs.

“He did not walk away but watched what I did. I collected the sheets and took them to the van outside. He stayed there watching me.

“I had never seen him before. I knew everyone who was living at the complex and he was not one of them.

“It is still recorded in my head like it was at the time. It was not usual for people to be there, in the shadows.

“My theory is that guy must have been involved, either in the kidnapping or studying what to do - their movements.

"He was there for something, for sure!”

Mario, who only started working at the Ocean Club a month before Madeleine vanished, said he identified a potential suspect to Portuguese police a few months after Madeleine went missing.

He spent hours with an officer looking at pictures and videos.

Investigators could then find no other evidence linking the identified man to the girl’s disappearance.

However, according to Portuguese files, officers asked British police to put more questions to this man – a full year after Madeleine vanished.

Mario was 80% convinced he was the man he saw but admits he could not be sure and now six years have passed.

Referring to Portugal’s “secrecy of justice” law, he said: “I couldn’t speak then. I’d been warned by police I would be in trouble if I spoke to anyone.”

But Mario now says: “I am available. I am happy to speak.

"I have not spoken to the British police about what I saw but I want the truth to be revealed.”

Twice-divorced Mario, who has a 21-year-old son and lives in a village on the outskirts of Praia da Luz, worked at the Ocean Club for nine months.

Describing the man who haunts him he explained: “He was quite tall and looked sort-of Scandinavian.

"He had lots of hair, close to his head — like it was glued. It was straight hair. He was about my age now - 45, 46.”

Det Chief Supt Hamish Campbell, head of Scotland Yard’s Homicide and Serious Crime Command, said earlier this month that there are many people who could be spoken to and eliminated from the inquiry.

Mario added: “I agree with what the British police have said and lots of people should be interviewed again.”

The McCanns, of Rothley, Leics, who have never given up looking for their daughter, have been kept closely informed of Scotland Yard’s review, codenamed Operation Grange, over the past two years.

Officials in Lisbon are still insisting they can reopen the case only if there is new evidence.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

As far as I am aware the Daily Mirror story is the source for all the information about ‘twice-divorced’ Mario Fernando. The Sunday Express article adds no new information. These 13 points occur on a close reading of the article (also re-hashing some points made on an earlier thread) :

1. Mario says he spoke to this ‘potential suspect’ ‘a few months’ after Madeleine went missing. Why did he leave it that long?. [We have the date he made a statement to the Portuguese police - see below - 5 August 2007. Out of interest, on Thursday 2 August the police arrived to remove some of the McCanns’ clothes for ‘forensic tests’(which we now know to have been because the dogs were in Praia da Luz). The McCanns did their trip to Huelvathe very next day (Friday 3 August). Mario made his statement on Sunday 5 August. The, according to Dr Kate McCann’s ‘madeleine’, p. 208: “It was on Monday 6 August that the atmosphere changed”.]

2. It appears, he says, that the Portuguese Police took the trouble to interview him for ‘several hours’, after which (it is not entirely clear) the police produced a photo of a man fitting this description. He says he’s ‘80% sure’ it was the same man he saw. That echoes Martin Smith’s ‘80% sure’ about Smithman. But there is no second statement from Mario in the Portuguese Police files. This leaves open the question as to whether he is making up the existence of the interview in which he was shown a picture of Two Tone Fatface

3. Despite the attention he was obviously given by the Portuguese Police, he says he was ‘uncomfortable’ with their investigation, whatever that means.

4. He apparently does nothing else for six years until (again it is not clear) he learns that the British police are looking for some 12 ‘manual workers and cleaners’. “I may be one of them”, he tells the Daily Mirror.

5. Now, a key question. How did the Daily Mirror get his name and address?

6. There are I think three main possibilities: (a) he ‘phoned the Daily Mirror, or maybe ‘phoned a Portuguese news agency who contacted the Daily Mirror, or (b) the name was leaked to the Daily Mirror, accompanied by a suggestion that he might have something interesting to say.

7. (a) looks unlikely. Somehow, this man’s name was given to the Daily Mirror. Again I would suggest two possibilities: (a) he, or someone on his behalf, spoke to Operation Grange, or (b) he, or someone on his behalf, spoke to the McCann Team. I won’t speculate any further.

8. However, he says he has not yet spoken to the British police.

9. We do not know of Scotland Yard has authorised the disclosure of the details of Two Tone Fatface. If there is such an individual, these press stories will have alerted him (just like other stories in the past have identified potential suspects, some of them clearly putting Madeleine at risk if she was being held by one of them).

10. He apparently urged ‘The Yard’ to speak to him back in late May. Operation Grange have already interviewed witnesses. Are we to believe they are constrained from being able to talk to him? The Mirror has his name, address and probably his telephone number. Surely if this was a ‘significant lead’, as is clearly being claimed in the Daily Mirror and Sunday Express articles, Scotland Yard officers could have gone out to see him already? If they do go and see him, no doubt one of their first questions will be: “Why didn’t you mention Two Tone Fatface when the Portuguese Police interviewed you on 5 August?@

11. Did the Daily Mirror check with Operation Grange to see if it was all right for someone to name a possible suspect, namely Two Tone Fatface? I think we can assume that Operation Grange sanctioned this story.

12. I notice that Mario carefully says that: ‘I think he was involved’ rather than ‘I think he abducted Madeleine’. No doubt he is fully aware that Two Tone Fatface can’t really Jane Tanner’s ’Bundleman’.

13. Does Scotland Yard, does the Daily Mirror, does the Sunday Express, realise just how much the story of Two Tone Fatface undermines their collective credibility - given that we are only hearing about him now, six years on, and after he has already been interviewed by the Portuguese and said nothing about him? The Daily Mirror said: “Det Chief Supt Hamish Campbell, head of Scotland Yard’s Homicide and Serious Crime Command, said earlier this month that there are many people who could be spoken to and eliminated from the inquiry” . Can we not save some taxpayers’ money and eliminate Two Tone Fatface from the investigation right now?

As jd and sharonl have already pointed out, Mario has already made this statement:

Witness Statement

Date: 2007/05/08

Mario Fernando Madeira Marreiros

Occupation: Laundry worker

Place of Work: OC

He has worked at the OC since the 5th March 2007 as a laundry worker as well as the driver of the laundry vehicles of the resort, delivering and collecting laundry (towels and sheets) from the apartments that make up the resort.

With relation to the events being investigated he states that on 4th May 2007, upon arriving at work at about 10.00 he saw that next to an apartment block there were various cars and police as well as members of the press, which he found strange.

Later, when he arrived at his place of work he was informed by colleagues that this "apparatus" was due to the disappearance of a little girl who had been staying at the resort.

He was informed that the girl was three years old, of British nationality and he observed that posters with her photograph and details were already up, with indications to follow in the case of information about her disappearance.

When questioned he said that he did not know the girl or her family, only having heard about them after the event.

When questioned about the day of the disappearance (03 May 2007) of the girl whose name he does not remember, he says he carried out his normal routine, arriving at his place of work at about 10.00, with a lunch break from 13.00 to 14.30, returning to work until 18.00. After work he returned home where he stayed with his wife until 21.30 when he went alone by car to Barao de Sao Joao, where his step son works.

After having picked up his step son he returned home where he stayed until the following day when he left for work.

He only knew about the events from the press and from his colleagues.

He knows nothing more apart from that the girl was on holiday with her family and twin siblings as he was informed later.

He does not know of anything suspicious that could be related to the events.

Reads, ratifies, signs

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by Guest 16.06.13 12:18

I remain very confident. IMO it is an excellent move to give SY the power to investigate. They will have access to all available information in the UK, interrogate British subjects without lengthy procedures and be assisted by the PJ in matters where they have no jurisdiction. I also think that we will be hearing from them soon enough. Anyone, who has something to hide, knows that they are / may be on the list of persons of interest. They might want to get away ... Now there's a thought: if they're already being observed - we might see arrests in airports ... ;-)

by jd 16.06.13 12:30

Châtelaine wrote:I remain very confident. IMO it is an excellent move to give SY the power to investigate. They will have access to all available information in the UK, interrogate British subjects without lengthy procedures and be assisted by the PJ in matters where they have no jurisdiction. I also think that we will be hearing from them soon enough. Anyone, who has something to hide, knows that they are / may be on the list of persons of interest. They might want to get away ... Now there's a thought: if they're already being observed - we might see arrests in airports ... ;-)

It also gives the mccanns control of the investigation.......

They used jane tanner and ignored the Smiths because jane tanner gave them control to sell their story.....Its the same with SY having the power to investigate (Don't forget the government protection and intervention since day 1)

I think the 'review' was a step by step process to set up this now investigation....to gain control

by Woburn_exile 16.06.13 13:19

The legal people, even sometimes the Police love to dive off into what I call the nonsensesphere. Much has been made of the "crying incident", the "photographs" the "timeline" none of which is conclusive but open to argument and misinterpretation. This suits the McCanns clan very well because it provides the haze of their smoke and mirrors campaign.
Look at the hard facts:
The children, 1 toddler and 2 babies were abandoned in their apartment, possibly drugged to make them sleep through so that the parents could go on the lash. Whomever looks st this will probably automatically say "rubbish parenting"
Statistically I worked out in an earlier post that taking all the facts as we have them in a multiple sense then the McCann version of events are 10 billion to 1 against, eg the % likelihood of an abduction by a stranger multiplied by the fact that both scent dogs were wrong on the same 2 occasions.
I haven't even started on the DNA yet.
The "open window jemmied shutters" proven to be a total LIE in itself an important piece of evidence as it rubbishes the Kate McCann version of events. (She is the weak one in all this and will be the first to crack).
The inconsistencies in statements of the rest of the Tapas crowd will probably yeild something concrete to a trained eye.

If the Police in this country could use all of the evidence provided to them by the Pj then it should be a done deal. However just as this was a politically pressured investigation in Portugal when Gordon Brown was in a position to influence then could not David Cameron be playing the reverse card as part of a smear campaign against his opposition in a long run up to the next General Election. Just a passing thought.
shark

by lufc50337 16.06.13 14:01

IMO the case for whitewash or true investigation can be argued successfully.

Time will tell if this is a massive cover up and then the question will be why OR the investigation will be true and then it was a case of clever marketing and favours and/or blackmail that is no longer relevant.

It would be good to hear from some of the Portugese posters who know GA to see if he thinks this is a positive move or not.

by Cristobell 16.06.13 14:43

The mccanns and the tapas crew were never going to return to Portugal for questioning and reconstruction, and the PJ were not going to be sent on any more wild goose changes. Moving the investigation to the UK, all key witnesses can be re-interviewed and all the information that was withheld from the PJ, will have to be produced.

I feel if it were a whitewash, it would have been wound up long ago and the blame placed at the door of a dead paedophile. If it were stranger abduction, there would be no point whatsoever in Scotland Yard conducting the investigation from here in the UK, it would make no sense as they are not in the geographical area, nor do they speak the language.

When SY announced that they have evidence of 20+ suspects, Team McCann were quick to issue statements. First we had 'no comment', then we heard from Clarence that the mccanns are very, very happy etc. Yesterday's announcement was far more significant, they are acting upon their findings, yet we have heard nothing.

by Woofer 16.06.13 14:47

IMO its going to be a cover-up..

One thing is for sure - if SY do arrange a cover-up, we will know FOR SURE that someone VERY IMPORTANT is being protected and it certainly isn`t the McCanns. SY/the Government wouldn`t cover-up for a couple of doctors.

by Woofer 16.06.13 14:52

sally66 wrote:IMO the case for whitewash or true investigation can be argued successfully.

Time will tell if this is a massive cover up and then the question will be why OR the investigation will be true and then it was a case of clever marketing and favours and/or blackmail that is no longer relevant.

It would be good to hear from some of the Portugese posters who know GA to see if he thinks this is a positive move or not.

Its been really quiet for many months on the Portuguese front - still no postings on Joana`s site. Worrying.

by lufc50337 16.06.13 15:02

Woofer wrote:
sally66 wrote:IMO the case for whitewash or true investigation can be argued successfully.

Time will tell if this is a massive cover up and then the question will be why OR the investigation will be true and then it was a case of clever marketing and favours and/or blackmail that is no longer relevant.

It would be good to hear from some of the Portugese posters who know GA to see if he thinks this is a positive move or not.

Its been really quiet for many months on the Portuguese front - still no postings on Joana`s site. Worrying.
*************

Stars to show end of your quote as it won't let me go to quote box below

I was hoping this news would instigate an update from Joana, a positive or negative reaction to the investigation

by sallypelt 16.06.13 15:03

Woofer wrote:
sally66 wrote:IMO the case for whitewash or true investigation can be argued successfully.

Time will tell if this is a massive cover up and then the question will be why OR the investigation will be true and then it was a case of clever marketing and favours and/or blackmail that is no longer relevant.

It would be good to hear from some of the Portugese posters who know GA to see if he thinks this is a positive move or not.

Its been really quiet for many months on the Portuguese front - still no postings on Joana`s site. Worrying.

I think that the silence speaks volumes. It shows that something is happening. Most discussions take place BEFORE anyone is charge with an offence. Once they are, everything goes silent.

by Guest 16.06.13 15:12

Is there anything in the Portuguese press about SY taking over? I have looked but can't see anything, which is odd as normally they report everything on the McCann case, even the USA sighting recently.

by sallypelt 16.06.13 15:28

candyfloss wrote:Is there anything in the Portuguese press about SY taking over? I have looked but can't see anything, which is odd as normally they report everything on the McCann case, even the USA sighting recently.

Candy, it's in a few foreign newspapers. I translated some, yesterday, but didn't post it on here, because they were only saying what we already know from other newspapers

by sallypelt 16.06.13 15:39

I've posted this link here. It has many up-to-date links to different sources on MM case:

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by lufc50337 16.06.13 15:58

Just had a look at Joana Morais site and twitter.

She hasn't posted on twitter since the 7 May and the last comment on her site was 6 May (as far as I can see)

Wasn't it around that time the McCanns suddenly looked terrible? Or am I being overly optimistic

by Guest 16.06.13 16:02

I've found it significant from the beginning that it were SY's Homicide and Serious Crime Squad, which was assigned to the review. Also that Brunt tweeted a serious "mistake" a couple of weeks ago, when he wrote about the handful of "suspects" in Madeleine McCann's MURDER ...

by lufc50337 16.06.13 16:13

I am just hoping that justice will be done for M and looking for the positives that this will be the case.

As the majority of the ground work is done for the investigation team by the PJ and the review things should move pretty quick if there are going to be arrests. Petermac is this a fair assumption?

by **PeterMac** 16.06.13 16:52

I am trying hard not to make assumptions !
We are working from one article in one newspaper - copied to one or two others, but all substantially the same, and none confirmed by Scotland Yard.

What we do know is that they have had ample opportunity to blame it on Hewlett or the other dead creature - and have not done so.
That would have been the easy TM-friendly whitewash way and they could all have retired happy to write their memoirs.
They haven't.

by lufc50337 16.06.13 16:57

I'll take hope from your reply

IMO if nothing happens this year it never will unless there is a death bed confession years down the line or something completely left field happens

by russiandoll 16.06.13 17:06

only got a laptop for a couple of hours, mine beyond repair and I am in process of purchasing a new one...it lasted for 5 yrs without needing repair and so was good value. apart from this, won't be posting until new one arrives. I have missed this forum and am catching up on what has gone on over last 10 -14 days.

re the Met taking over, the following is on the CPS website

Resolving jurisdictional conflicts
Where the offence occurred on a single territory
Generally, an offence will only be triable in the jurisdiction in which the offence takes place, unless there is a specific provision to ground jurisdiction, for instance where specific statutes ene UK to exercise extra-territorial jurisdiction:

sexual offences against children (section 72 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003) A new section 72 was substituted by the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008 which came into effect from 14 July 2008 onwards. It is important to ensure that any prosecution is brought under the provision in force at the time the alleged conduct occured as the terms of the substantive provisions and details of the offences they cover are not identical;
murder and manslaughter (subsection 9 and 10 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861)
fraud (the 2006 Act imposes extra territorial jurisdiction in respect od offences in subsection. 1, 6, 7, 9 and 11 of the Fraud Act 2006) and dishonesty (Criminal Justice Act 1993 Part 1 still applies to the remaining unrepealed sections of the Theft Act 1968);
terrorism (subsection 59, 62-63 of the Terrorism Act 2000 and section 17 of the Terrorism Act 2006);
bribery (The Bribery Act 2010 repeals the common law and the statutory offences of corruption for offences committed wholly on or after 1 July 2011. For those offences the Bribery Act imposes extra-territorial jurisdiction. Section 109 of the Anti-Terrorism and Security Act 2001 still applies to provide extre-territorial jurisdiction in respect of offences committed wholly or partially before 1 July 2011.

For a list of particular offences with an extra-territorial reach see Archbold .

by Guest 16.06.13 17:49

PeterMac wrote:I am trying hard not to make assumptions !
We are working from one article in one newspaper - copied to one or two others, but all substantially the same, and none confirmed by Scotland Yard.

What we do know is that they have had ample opportunity to blame it on Hewlett or the other dead creature - and have not done so.
That would have been the easy TM-friendly whitewash way and they could all have retired happy to write their memoirs.
They haven't.

***
Indeed. Thank you PeterMac.

by Ayniia 16.06.13 21:54

Châtelaine wrote:
PeterMac wrote:I am trying hard not to make assumptions !
We are working from one article in one newspaper - copied to one or two others, but all substantially the same, and none confirmed by Scotland Yard.

What we do know is that they have had ample opportunity to blame it on Hewlett or the other dead creature - and have not done so.
That would have been the easy TM-friendly whitewash way and they could all have retired happy to write their memoirs.
They haven't.
***
Indeed. Thank you PeterMac.

I'm anxiously waiting any confirmation or denial of this article

by aiyoyo 17.06.13 2:25

I dont think Yard and Home Office will confirm or refute anything.

Just like we will never know get confirmation of the 20 suspects when in my recollection all Hamish Campbell said was "a handful".

Just like we will never know from who the Papers got the story of half-a-dozen BRITS cleaners.

If we look at quotes from horses' mouth then we got Andy Redwood saying Maddie could be alive or sadly dead, and we have got Martin Brunt tweeted the word murder only to delete it in a flash.
The papers are playing a catch and mouse game with its audience where this case is concerned.

by aiyoyo 17.06.13 4:15

From the Express article, it's probably technically correct to summarise that the Yard detectives asked Home Office for extension of time and wider scope which inevitably involves continued funding.

Can one safely assume MET is taking up where the PJ left off when PJ were unable to progress further b/c they were hampered by obstacles from main players after they fled home.

If the MET so called 'new evidence' was basically derived from existing files then it's not new per se to the PJ.
Hence not legally nor practically feasible for PJ to reopen on those basis for obvious reasons being (1) not new and (2) the same obstacles would prevail.

The so called new evidence ie "handful of suspects" logically has to bear some concrete elements rather than abstract ones for MET to have succeeded in justifying to Home Office to support the Review continuation with a wider scope/remit.

I am inclined to think had the MET told Theresa May that they need more time to investigate a handful of faceless suspects, I can't see how TM can justify the continued funding.
It has got to be BRITS that MET has power to investigate within UK jurisdiction, as there would be no point in chasing up foreigners on vague leads when that can be left to interpol.

The mention of Brits in the same line as suspects (if tabloids are to be believed) has great significance.
Although MET have no jurisdiction over a crime committed in Portugal, their investigation materials can be passed onto the Portuguese for use in prosecution purpose if it comes to that, there is no doubt about that.

by Angelique 17.06.13 4:32

Or to address the situation from a different angle - the UK Government initially put the Portuguese through the washing machine from day one. The Portuguese resort to closing the investigation because of UK Gov. obstruction unless new evidence arrives. So UK Gov retaliate by taking over investigation in the UK - require co-operation from Portuguese plus files and put the Portuguese through the wringer and hang them out to dry!

Seems that UK will not be gainsaid - is this a case of 'If you can't come up with the required result i.e. Abduction by pedophile' we will do it for you!

Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

TWO-TONE, FATFACE MAN - 13 QUESTIONS

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

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