Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus *UPDATE* CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

by plebgate 17.06.13 8:03

I was thinking earlier about why Granny was rolled out two weeks ago. The article in the press said along the lines that Granny was begging for help from the public.

Maybe another coded message to somebody - begging for help, but maybe not from the public? It was also reported that Granny had said that neither Mr. nor Mrs. had told her about any contact with SY. Why did she need to add that?

by suzyjohnson 17.06.13 10:01

aiyoyo wrote:From the Express article, it's probably technically correct to summarise that the Yard detectives asked Home Office for extension of time and wider scope which inevitably involves continued funding.

Can one safely assume MET is taking up where the PJ left off when PJ were unable to progress further b/c they were hampered by obstacles from main players after they fled home.

If the MET so called 'new evidence' was basically derived from existing files then it's not new per se to the PJ.
Hence not legally nor practically feasible for PJ to reopen on those basis for obvious reasons being (1) not new and (2) the same obstacles would prevail.

The so called new evidence ie "handful of suspects" logically has to bear some concrete elements rather than abstract ones for MET to have succeeded in justifying to Home Office to support the Review continuation with a wider scope/remit.

I am inclined to think had the MET told Theresa May that they need more time to investigate a handful of faceless suspects, I can't see how TM can justify the continued funding.
It has got to be BRITS that MET has power to investigate within UK jurisdiction, as there would be no point in chasing up foreigners on vague leads when that can be left to interpol.

The mention of Brits in the same line as suspects (if tabloids are to be believed) has great significance.
Although MET have no jurisdiction over a crime committed in Portugal, their investigation materials can be passed onto the Portuguese for use in prosecution purpose if it comes to that, there is no doubt about that.

Yes, Aiyoyo, I agree with you

by cass7 17.06.13 10:04

for years they have been saying they cannot get involved - does this mean that every time a child goes missing outside the uk they can jump in ? what about ben - but we all know that poor kerry has been working along side greece police - south yorkshire police too - she has left no stone unturned - and since this review was announced she herself has been vocal of the help the mcanns have had -re when this review was started i said then and still say it was to shut the mcanns up - and stop oaps giving to the fund - what now we say - well someone once said in the early days - 3as i think -if you think all these drs will go to jail - think again - but this circus has got bigger and theres no stopping it - is madeleine still aoc ? madeleine is the victim - a little girl taken outside the uk never to return - she deserves some justice if possible - how long has someone to be missing before being declared dead - think its 7 years in a a adult

by **Tony Bennett** 17.06.13 10:28

One wonders, if and when the 'investigation' really gets going, there will be police raids on houses.

Like this one (May 2007):

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Maddy cops raid house

7:00am Wednesday 30th May 2007 in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Pic: Missing: Four-year-old Madeleine McCann [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
The home of a South Norwood mum was raided by police last week in the hunt for missing youngster Madeleine McCann.

An anonymous tip-off from a person in Leicestershire led police officers to Debbie Seepersad's home in Merton Road at around 1.30pm on Wednesday afternoon.

The 40-year-old said she was called while out collecting her daughter from school by police who told her they had information suggesting Madeleine was in her house. By the time the call was made the search was over and it was clear she had no connection with the disappearance.

Four-year-old Madeleine went missing from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, on May 3 - five days after arriving there with mum Kate, dad Gerry and twin siblings Sean and Amelie. Since then an international hunt and campaign has been launched.

Miss Seepersad, who was on her way to collect 12-year-old Maressa from a school in Penge when she received the call from police, said she was "shocked" by the search raid.
"I kept thinking it was a wind up," she added. "But I picked up my daughter and rushed back to the house and the police were there."

"The house didn't look too bad when I got inside, although my daughter's bedroom had been ransacked a bit. The letter box on the door needs to be fixed though. I really thought it was a wind up and I'm still in shock.!

PIc: Debbie Seepersad

When she got there she was met by officers who had changed her locks. They handed over a new set of keys having found nothing in the house.

She added: "They said that because no-one answered the door when they knocked, they called through to their superiors and were told to gain entrance to the house.

"The house didn't look too bad when I got inside, although my daughter's bedroom had been ransacked a bit. The letter box on the door needs to be fixed though. I really thought it was a wind up and I'm still in shock."

Miss Seepersad said that although she understands why police carried out the search on her house, she would like a formal apology in writing.

She said: "I can understand why they did it. If it were my daughter I'd want them to knock on everyone's door. What irritates me is that they're not revealing their sources.

"They were kind of apologetic but it is an invasion of privacy. Anyone could call up the police and give them anyone's address.

"I would like to know what happens to the person who gives false information. What did they tell them to convince them of this information?"

Croydon Police confirmed they were involved in the search and were acting on instructions from Leicestershire Police who are handling the British side of the search for Madeleine.

A Leicestershire Police spokeswoman said she could not comment on what was a continuing investigation but officers would contact Miss Seepersad.

"Leicestershire Constabulary is one of a number of UK law enforcement agencies who are supporting the Portuguese authorities with their investigation into the disappearance of four-year-old Madeleine McCann," the spokeswoman said.

"Our role is to complete and coordinate UK-based enquiries at the request of the Portuguese authorities.

"Since Madeleine went missing, we have worked with colleagues in police forces across the country to undertake a number of enquiries on behalf of the Portuguese authorities.

"Since these enquiries all form part of the Portuguese investigation, it would be inappropriate for us to comment further.

"Officers will, however, be speaking to Ms Seepersad with regard to the concerns she has expressed."

by Lance De Boils 17.06.13 10:47

Who really benefits from this move? (Assuming that what has been reported is actually true.)

Why would the British police be "taking over" the case, a potentially logistical nightmare with huge costs, if they believe the answer lies in Portugal? They must surely know the answer is on British soil, otherwise I don't see what the gain is.

by Guest 17.06.13 11:07

It's easy to be cynical but I'm cautiously optimistic about this.

It seems an overly complicated way to whitewash the case and it assumes that the present government, the police and the press are all on the side of the McCanns.

It makes more sense to me that the Met (in conjunction with the PJ) have gone through the evidence with a fine-tooth comb and know what happened. I expect that they waited to see what would come out of the court cases (although the Amaral case was postponed) and the recent anniversary.

So, the next step is to get all the main players in for questioning but they are a slippery bunch so you paint them into a corner:

tell the press about paedofiles, loitering weirdos etc. etc.
confirm that the McCann's have been kept regularly informed of the progress of the investigation (once or twice can be classed as regular & they probably weren't told anything of importance)
open the investigation in the UK so there's no need to extradite British witnesses.

The McCanns and Tapas pals now have no excuse not to co-operate fully with the police.

pray2

by Guest 17.06.13 11:53

i am not British and don't know the law. If the case was to be officially transfered to the British police, would the public still be allowed to comment on sites as this one, and would the press be able to write about it, or is it a roundabout way to control what is being said on the vanishing of Madeleine.

by suzyjohnson 17.06.13 12:29

Juuicy, hopefully SY would be giving very little away about their investigation at this stage.

The British press won't print anything anti-McCann currently in case they get sued.

The press could be prevented from printing anything, either by agreement between themselves and the police, or, if necessary, by court order.

by Ayniia 17.06.13 13:51

aiyoyo wrote:I dont think Yard and Home Office will confirm or refute anything.

Just like we will never know get confirmation of the 20 suspects when in my recollection all Hamish Campbell said was "a handful".

Just like we will never know from who the Papers got the story of half-a-dozen BRITS cleaners.

If we look at quotes from horses' mouth then we got Andy Redwood saying Maddie could be alive or sadly dead, and we have got Martin Brunt tweeted the word murder only to delete it in a flash.
The papers are playing a catch and mouse game with its audience where this case is concerned.

But someone will have to confirm or deny it sooner or later! Until then, I'll keep the Mcs faces in the vigil in my head and hope for some good news.

by The Rooster 17.06.13 14:18

Lance may I say a very astute observation on your part. They (the MET) know the main players in this case are based in the UK, I would be very surprised if they haven't already interviewed the Tapas 7 and as a result are very near to knowing what happened. They're not all crooked and it must be hell for them to live with themselves. Some I believe wanted to change their statements but ultimately declined to do so. I wonder if they have now. In fact there was a MET officer interviewed recently who eluded to this saying person or persons may wish to change stories as relationships change over the course of time.

The McCann's arm may indeed reach far into the depths of reputation management and control. But if Judges and ex PM's can be openly questioned about perverting the course of justice and illegal wars, then, if the McCann's are complicit, the MET will get them. That's what a solicitor friend of mine informed me. Further, said person told me that very many of their colleagues were uncomfortable with the McCann's versions of events and were confident in the MET. Well may justice prevail for all.

by Cristobell 17.06.13 14:28

Poe wrote:It's easy to be cynical but I'm cautiously optimistic about this.

It seems an overly complicated way to whitewash the case and it assumes that the present government, the police and the press are all on the side of the McCanns.

It makes more sense to me that the Met (in conjunction with the PJ) have gone through the evidence with a fine-tooth comb and know what happened. I expect that they waited to see what would come out of the court cases (although the Amaral case was postponed) and the recent anniversary.

So, the next step is to get all the main players in for questioning but they are a slippery bunch so you paint them into a corner:

tell the press about paedofiles, loitering weirdos etc. etc.

confirm that the McCann's have been kept regularly informed of the progress of the investigation (once or twice can be classed as regular & they probably weren't told anything of importance)

open the investigation in the UK so there's no need to extradite British witnesses.

The McCanns and Tapas pals now have no excuse not to co-operate fully with the police.

Great post Poe.

by Praiaaa 17.06.13 15:11

Very thoughtful posts.

I agree that that now we are in a world where previously 'untouchable' powerful people are being subject to due process within the justice system - eg NOTW editor, Judge Bristow etc, can't see why the Met would collude with a whitewash, when we have seen with Hillsborough, Plebgate etc that a coverup cannot stay covered up forever.
If the McCs were involved in some criminal activity, and if that criminal activity was compounded by attempts to eg defraud the public, conspire with others to pervert the course of justice etc, the charges would be many and various, and it would be necessary to tie up loopholes that could be exploited by slippery defence lawyers (eg attempts to suggest that DNA evidence was contaminated); would take a lot of time to ensure a water-tight case, with a realistic chance of conviction.
Also, when high profile cases do come to trial ( eg the recent sad case of April Jones) it is evident that much more was known about the suspect by the police at the time that could not be revealed in the press until after the conviction.

by ShuBob 17.06.13 17:42

Praiaaa wrote:Very thoughtful posts.

I agree that that now we are in a world where previously 'untouchable' powerful people are being subject to due process within the justice system - eg NOTW editor, Judge Bristow etc, can't see why the Met would collude with a whitewash, when we have seen with Hillsborough, Plebgate etc that a coverup cannot stay covered up forever.
If the McCs were involved in some criminal activity, and if that criminal activity was compounded by attempts to eg defraud the public, conspire with others to pervert the course of justice etc, the charges would be many and various, and it would be necessary to tie up loopholes that could be exploited by slippery defence lawyers (eg attempts to suggest that DNA evidence was contaminated); would take a lot of time to ensure a water-tight case, with a realistic chance of conviction.
Also, when high profile cases do come to trial ( eg the recent sad case of April Jones) it is evident that much more was known about the suspect by the police at the time that could not be revealed in the press until after the conviction.

I echo your sentiments.

I am encouraged that more posters are optimistic concerning the latest development.

by sheila.edwards 17.06.13 19:54

agree. so many people in group and so many drove car etc forensics would be nightmare with so many but experts opinions will be available still I would have thought anyway.

by Guest 17.06.13 21:52

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

An American report on the news - Madeleine "sleeping in the basement" is a new one on me and I love the bit at 1.12 where the reporter starts to say defectives instead of (British) detectives.

by Ayniia 17.06.13 22:55

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

An American report on the news - Madeleine "sleeping in the basement" is a new one on me and I love the bit at 1.12 where the reporter starts to say defectives instead of (British) detectives.

Oh lord awesome journalism,again

by sheila.edwards 17.06.13 23:49

Well glad SY taking over enquiry as Chief executive of missing people charity stated this morning, as if a proven fact on this morning TV that " Maddy WAS a stranger abduction abroad" in a clip candyfloss kindly uploaded. I know they work with social workers not sure if with SY but don't think that is right at all and point of review, which was not mentioned at all on the show this morning that was also about missing katrice !!!!!! worth watching by end of clip all agreeing maddy WAS A STRANGER ABDUCTION ABROAD!! I still cant understand it, when no evidence myself, how widely this has been accepted as a fact !

by plebgate 18.06.13 7:53

sheila.edwards wrote:Well glad SY taking over enquiry as Chief executive of missing people charity stated this morning, as if a proven fact on this morning TV that " Maddy WAS a stranger abduction abroad" in a clip candyfloss kindly uploaded. I know they work with social workers not sure if with SY but don't think that is right at all and point of review, which was not mentioned at all on the show this morning that was also about missing katrice !!!!!! worth watching by end of clip all agreeing maddy WAS A STRANGER ABDUCTION ABROAD!! I still cant understand it, when no evidence myself, how widely this has been accepted as a fact !

Even their own solicitor could not, under oath, state that - so why do the tv stations get away with it?

by aiyoyo 18.06.13 8:24

I suppose if mccanns hypothesis from the get go was that an alien has taken Maddie they would make sure they spin it so, that gullible people would believe them.
For a CEO of missing people charity to state something not proven, no evidence to support that except for the throwaway line from a Redwood as a given fact is pretty brainless if I may say so. A wise person would not want to be associating to a suspect let alone have the suspect represent their organisation with covenants to protect children.

Again one has to ask how someone like her can be fit for purpose. Another one with mentality that people in certain social class with money cannot commit atrocity against children or adults or that matter - just look at latest scandal involving Saatchi and Nigella Lawson, who would have thought someone of her celebrity status would be wife suffering in silence against domestic abuse, if not for the first hand witness.

by Praiaaa 18.06.13 9:22

Given that Stuart Hall was given a character reference from an NSPCC Chairman, does not surprise me that the Missing Persons person is also gullible and star-struck.

by Woofer 18.06.13 10:48

sheila.edwards wrote:Well glad SY taking over enquiry as Chief executive of missing people charity stated this morning, as if a proven fact on this morning TV that " Maddy WAS a stranger abduction abroad" in a clip candyfloss kindly uploaded. I know they work with social workers not sure if with SY but don't think that is right at all and point of review, which was not mentioned at all on the show this morning that was also about missing katrice !!!!!! worth watching by end of clip all agreeing maddy WAS A STRANGER ABDUCTION ABROAD!! I still cant understand it, when no evidence myself, how widely this has been accepted as a fact !

Well at least, if it comes to a trial in UK, the McCanns cannot say a jury was influenced by anti McCann publicity, cos there ain`t been none !

by aiyoyo 18.06.13 10:53

Praiaaa wrote:Given that Stuart Hall was given a character reference from an NSPCC Chairman, does not surprise me that the Missing Persons person is also gullible and star-struck.

Star struck is all very well but the mclibels were obscure nonentities then till they became notorious, so why the same awe-struck adulation is mind boggling.

by Lostfridge 18.06.13 11:45

We don't actually know that this is even happening do we. Nothing official and I am sure we have been here before and its ended in a statement from the PJ that they have no intention of doing anything regarding opening the case.

by plebgate 18.06.13 13:04

Praiaaa wrote:Given that Stuart Hall was given a character reference from an NSPCC Chairman, does not surprise me that the Missing Persons person is also gullible and star-struck.

With so many sensible people posting here it does surprise me that so many nitwits get these "prestigious" posts and others are never offered anything. Well it doesn't surprise me really, but it should.

Well said Praiaaa.

Edited to correct text

by Ayniia 18.06.13 14:04

Lostfridge wrote:We don't actually know that this is even happening do we. Nothing official and I am sure we have been here before and its ended in a statement from the PJ that they have no intention of doing anything regarding opening the case.

Yes, true. I'm not hoping for any comment from the PJ as they usually keep silent about investigations (active or not ) but I'm hoping the SY to say something sooner or later. As I said before, I'm keeping the "faces in the vigil " image in my head as a hope that something is happening, but what, no one knows yet.

by Casey5 18.06.13 14:46

The McCanns could not use the fact that they couldn't get a fair trial in England to get out of having one. They have constantly, when appearing on TV or radio programs and been told that large numbers of people have contacted the stations to question their "innocence", said that they thought there was just a small number of people who thought that way. and, in Kate's mind most people were inherently good and they have been humbled by the amount of support they'd received from ordinary folk.
Their interviews may well come back to haunt them one day.

by Spandex 18.06.13 15:17

I feel quite optimistic as many have pointed out - difficulty in extradition to Portugal, the recent photos where they really looked gutted, Murat's statement, old cover ups coming to fore etc. I also wonder whether someone has changed their statement and that the so called pact of silence has been broken

by Ayniia 18.06.13 15:42

Casey5 wrote:The McCanns could not use the fact that they couldn't get a fair trial in England to get out of having one. They have constantly, when appearing on TV or radio programs and been told that large numbers of people have contacted the stations to question their "innocence", said that they thought there was just a small number of people who thought that way. and, in Kate's mind most people were inherently good and they have been humbled by the amount of support they'd received from ordinary folk.
Their interviews may well come back to haunt them one day.

Having a trial in Portugal would be worse, not only because public opinion but also because of all the translators needed (plus all the work /time that implies ),more the media circus and chaos it would cause. And justice in Portugal is unfortunately very very slow. And I won't even talk about Mr. but Mrs. would have a lot of trouble in a Portuguese jail if she got mixed with other inmates.

Spandex wrote:I feel quite optimistic as many have pointed out - difficulty in extradition to Portugal, the recent photos where they really looked gutted, Murat's statement, old cover ups coming to fore etc. I also wonder whether someone has changed their statement and that the so called pact of silence has been broken

And yes that sums it up and let's not forget the reaction to the SY statement changing from "no comments " to "very pleased " and Brunt's tweet.

by aiyoyo 18.06.13 16:39

Spandex wrote:I feel quite optimistic as many have pointed out - difficulty in extradition to Portugal, the recent photos where they really looked gutted, Murat's statement, old cover ups coming to fore etc. I also wonder whether someone has changed their statement and that the so called pact of silence has been broken

I doubt the pact of silence has been broken else things would hove moved at a much faster pace.
If someone has broke silence that would be new evidence and the case would have been reopened at drop of hat.

by ShuBob 18.06.13 16:51

aiyoyo wrote:
Spandex wrote:I feel quite optimistic as many have pointed out - difficulty in extradition to Portugal, the recent photos where they really looked gutted, Murat's statement, old cover ups coming to fore etc. I also wonder whether someone has changed their statement and that the so called pact of silence has been broken

I doubt the pact of silence has been broken else things would hove moved at a much faster pace.
If someone has broke silence that would be new evidence and the case would have been reopened at drop of hat.

Not necessarily.

Even if one of them breaks their silence, the information will still need to be investigated and this may take some time especially if no one else backs up their story. As an example, look how long it took to bring Shafilea Ahmed's murderers to justice even after her sister provided police with the final piece of the jigsaw.

Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Raided

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Ah say Boy ah say you got it good...

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

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