Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts

by Guest 14.01.14 23:32

To quote John McEnroe - you can't be serious, Five Star!

That one is a theory too far for me and doesn't do the forum's credibility much good.

by Five Star 14.01.14 23:35

Not probable but what's the answer? I would still like to know! empathy

by Guest 14.01.14 23:45

Five Star wrote:Not probable but what's the answer? I would still like to know!

You are surely not serious Five Star.........at least I hope you're not!! What about the car, and the clothes alerts?

by Five Star 14.01.14 23:53

Can the dogs tell the difference between a whole body and small body parts would have been a better question. sorry!

example, .....possible cadaver scent from a whole finger or toe or whatever?.....

I'm just asking out of curiosity really.

by Smokeandmirrors 15.01.14 6:01

Five Star wrote:Can the dogs tell the difference between a whole body and small body parts would have been a better question. sorry!

example, .....possible cadaver scent from a whole finger or toe or whatever?.....

I'm just asking out of curiosity really.

I child who chops off a finger or toe with super-vicious nail clippers (or whatever) would scream and holler. Doubt it'd bleed them to death. It would be horrible but not a "disaster" as the father might say.

As for cadaver from a disembodied appendage - who can say? Let Google be your friend. This is one for private study methinks.

by Five Star 15.01.14 13:18

Lol , so the answer is you don't know.......Thanks S&M!!

by **tigger** 05.09.14 10:51

From GerrymcCannsblog:

"Now for the evidence," said the King, "and then the sentence."
"No!" said the Queen," first the sentence, and then the evidence!"
It's amazing what you find down a rabbit hole these days, especially on the Nancy Grace show. The last few weeks have served up two Madeleine McCann 'specials' complete with a Mad Hatter's tea party of self appointed experts, poorly informed dabblers and people who just like the sound of their own voice. All fighting for their slice of the cake.
What is left over, after the unsavoury feast, is a doggy-bag of misinformation, lies and misdirection. As an example of investigative journalism, it ranks alongside SpongeBob SquarePants' front-page scoops for the Krabby Kronicle.
The most important points raised in the shows which will be highlighted and corrected over the following weeks but, to start with, an old chestnut, thought long ago to have been buried under 6 feet of soil:
Chapter 1. Six dead bodies
Mike Walker (National Enquirer): "And as the doctor, as the wife pointed out, she said I handled six dead bodies just days ago, before I came to Portugal for my vacation. That's what I do. I'm a doctor."
Kate McCann was a part-time GP at a small practice in Melton Mowbray, a sleepy town in middle England with a population of 25,500. Leaving aside the fact that it would not have been her job to routinely 'handle dead bodies', 6 dead, under her part-time care, in the days before she left for Portugal, would surely have raised questions as to her professional competence. Indeed, such a scenario, if true, would test the credibility of an Agatha Chrsitie or Ruth Rendell novel.
A quick Google search reveals there were no reported outbreaks of smallpox, bubonic plague or arsenic in the pork pies, so we are left to conclude that the '6 dead bodies' were unceremoniously exhumed purely to counter the indications made by the sniffer dogs.
But why? If there has never been a 'shred of evidence' that Madeleine is dead, as the McCanns have consistently, and persistently, argued, then why did they feel the need to manufacture an alibi for the smell of death found in locations, and on various items, connected to them?
Philomena McCann, Gerry's sister, was the first to pick up the baton, on the day of Gerry McCann's arguido interview:
“He’s going in at 2pm today. But he’s not the main suspect, for some unknown reason there’s something about a sniffer dog sniffing Kate. Suddenly a dog can talk and says she smelled a death. How can that be when a British sniffer dog came out months after Madeline’s case. They’re doctors, if there’s a smell of death on them could that possibly be a patient?”
It's worth noting here that the primary concern of Philomena is to shift the finger of blame away from her brother onto his wife. Blood is thicker than water, after all. It's only once she has irrevocably established that 'the main suspect' is Kate, that she feels comfortable to move onto the dogs indications - those being associated with Kate, of course. She does not reject the dogs alerts as 'ludicrous' and 'impossible' but accepts them and further seeks to provide justification for them.
It was Lori Campbell, writing in the Sunday Mirror, 09 September 2007, who then developed the story further:
'Kate was also told sniffer dogs had discovered the scent of a corpse on her jeans. But she said that could be easily explained because as a locum GP she had been near a dead person before the family's holiday.'
Quite what she was doing 'near' a dead person, in her jeans, without seemingly attending to them, remains a mystery. Maybe she thought she could assess the state of the unfortunate person's health by standing in a different room, much like she claims was the case when she checked on Madeleine ("I did my check about 10.00 'clock and went in through the sliding patio doors and I just stood, actually [in the living room] and I thought, oh, all quiet, and to be honest, I might have been tempted to turn round then...").
But wait, there's more. In another report, in the same issue, by the same author, the number has remarkably grown, as if Ms Campbell had suddenly discovered a cake labelled 'EAT ME':
'Friends have pointed out that GP Kate was present at several deaths before she went away on holiday.'
The idea that Kate attended to 'several deaths', or even just the one, dressed in clothes suited to a Portuguese beach holiday surely stretches the credibility of that argument to snapping point. It appears it wasn't only Eddie, the Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog, that was barking at that time.
It is unsurprising that the claim was quickly dropped after the McCanns fled back to the UK and fell into the arms of a team of high profile and expensive lawyers, and various PR personnel. It has never been repeated since - until being dug up again for the Nancy Grace show.
unquote

Hmm, 'he's not the main suspect' it has been pointed out to me in the past that the McCann family don't seem to be overfond of Kate. Remember also that Kate said to Gerry: Ít's me they want!'.
She should know... smilie

by **PeterMac** 05.09.14 13:28

So it was Lori Campbell to whom we owe that gem, or indeed that series of gems.

http://newsoutlines.blogspot.com.es/2007/09/police-dont-want-paedophile-murder-here.html

There is also the following, though they may be, and probably are Churnalism

1 http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/the-mccanns-unbelievabletruth-
or-unimaginable-nightmare-13476726.html
The McCanns: Unbelievable truth or unimaginable nightmare?
Madeleine's parents have returned home to a storm of allegations, leaks and
accusations. Cole Moreton and Ian Herbert in Praia da Luz sift the evidence
Monday, 17 September 2007
What was in the hire car?
The silver Renault Scenic was examined by a sniffer dog trained to detect any
scent of a corpse, and police sources say they saw the dog "going crazy". Mrs
McCann has said that as a GP she was with corpses before the holiday, so
traces of them may still have been on her clothes. But the big breakthrough, the
media claimed, was Madeleine's hair and bodily fluids being found in the car

2 http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/scapegoatsmccanns-
reject-compelling-new-police-evidence-13385012.html
According to the McCann family, detectives asked why a British-trained dog
detected traces of a corpse on Mrs McCann's clothing and on a Bible in the
apartment. Mrs McCann, a GP, has said she was present at six deaths before
her holiday.

3 http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/portuguese-mediaclamour-
for-conviction-13385008.html#ixzz29Z8S101s
The Diario de Noticia, a leading broadsheet, ran the front page headline "PJ wait
for final examinations to arrest Madeleine's parents". The newspaper alleged that
Kate McCann was repeatedly asked by police on Friday why there may have been
blood in her apartment. It claimed Mrs McCann, a GP, replied that it could have
come from a wound or a nosebleed. The police said they had reason to believe
the blood came from a corpse. Diario alleged that at this point Mrs McCann
declared: "That's impossible".
The newspaper said she then "got nervous", "gave way", and that the interrogator
"took advantage of this moment of weakness" and confronted her with news that
forensic scientists had found traces of blood in the back of their hire car with a 78.9
per cent match to Madeleine's. At this point, Diario reported, Mrs McCann "refused
to answer any more questions" and "broke down". The police allegedly took Mrs
McCann's refusal to answer any further questions as evidence in the case.
Diario also reported that "investigators admit the probability that Kate slapped
Maddie and she then hit her head. What surprises them is that the mother didn't
use her initiative to call 112 [the Portuguese emergency services number]".
Another newspaper, the Correro del Manho, alleged that Mrs McCann was shown
video footage of sniffer dogs scenting blood in the back of the McCanns' hire car.
The McCanns have denied such allegations and threatened to sue.

by **tigger** 05.09.14 14:15

Helpful little body Lori Campbell, also best mate of Clarence.

The bit I loved about the oiece I quoted was this - I got to hand it to Kate, I can't improve on it.

Mike Walker (National Enquirer): "And as the doctor, as the wife pointed out, she said I handled six dead bodies just days ago, before I came to Portugal for my vacation. That's what I do. I'm a doctor."

Trust me, I'm a doctor... i particularly like the word 'handled' - what did she do? The imagination boggles.

by **PeterMac** 05.09.14 15:43

tigger wrote:Helpful little body Lori Campbell, also best mate of Clarence.

Interesting how many of the people who allegedly "support" the McCanns in their Self-Confessed-Serial-Child-Abandonment-and-Neglect
have managed to stuff things up for them -

Campbell,
Mitchell on numerous occasions telling blatant lies when were then proved to be so, using the words "Dead but not by their hands" and so on ad inf.
Bruntie, with his 100% DNA, Kate going to be arrested, and so on
Family members, Philomena on several occasions - notoriously the Reward statement
Mother,
All those to whom the broken shutters were reported.
The Tapas 7 by their incoherent gibbering Rogatories
Corner by allowing into the public domain the film of a "tired and emotional" Kate to do that squeaking "Yer raaat, there was a very small window of opportunity . . ." even though that related to the Tannerman now discredited by SY ( ? )
And especially C-R's Mrs Martorell, who blew the whole charade open with her full and frank admission in court that she had no evidence., and by implication since she was the lead witness, that there was none.

I cannot think of anyone who has made a factual statement "helpful' to their cause. Is it indeed possible to do so.?

by Dont Make Me Laff 06.09.14 21:17

@ P<
= I cannot think of anyone who has made a factual statement "helpful' to their cause. Is it indeed possible to do so.?

ANSWER
Not in a million years
(not just my opinion either)

by **PeterMac** 09.09.14 19:23

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/dog-helps-bring-maine-killer-justice-article-1.1930697

Cadaver dog and game warden help put Maine wife killer David Tanasichuk behind bars for life
German shepherd Alex leads Deb Palman to the bullet-riddled corpse of Maria Tanasichuk
BY MARA BOVSUN NEW YORK DAILY NEWS Saturday, September 6, 2014, 7:50 PM A A A
Maine game warden Deb Palman and her dog Alex found remains of Maria Tanasichuk in wooded area near Canadian border.
David Tanasichuk wore his passions not on his sleeve, but on his skin. Tattoos of pistols and assault weapons adorned his arms and torso. Teardrops inked under his eyes hinted he had murdered. Then, there was the tattoo on his neck, Cyrillic letters that translate to “Death Dealer.”
His body art wasn’t just a fashion statement. Tanasichuk, 35, a self-professed Satanist, had a long record, a serious drug habit and an explosive temper.

So when his wife, Maria, 41, vanished in January 2003, many in their small Canadian town of Miramichi, New Brunswick, had little doubt that it was foul play and that the husband did it.
Trouble was, police lacked one key to the case: A corpse.

Without Maria’s body it would be impossible to prove that she had not run off or that her husband had harmed her, no matter how strong any other evidence, wrote Kate Clark Flora in her new book on the crime, “Death Dealer: How Cops and Cadaver Dogs Brought a Killer to Justice.”
On Jan. 26, Tanasichuk called police and told them his wife had gone missing about two weeks earlier. Their once-loving marriage was now on the rocks, he admitted, especially after the death in 2000 of B.J. Breau, Maria’s son from a previous relationship. Tanasichuk said that the couple had decided it would be best to spend some time apart, so she went home to family in St. John.

No one could find her in St. John and Tanasichuk kept changing the details of his story. Also disturbing to the people who knew her well was that she left some prized possessions behind — her jewelry and a stuffed bear that was the last gift her son gave her.

Given Tanasichuk’s history, Maria’s friends and family feared the worst.
A persistent troublemaker with a tendency toward violence, Tanasichuk had been considered a possible suspect in connection with other unsolved cases, including the mysterious death of one man and the disappearance of Maria’s brother. There was never evidence enough to pin any of it on him.
Killer David Tanasichuk had Cyrillic words tattooed on his neck that translated into "Death Dealer."
Searchers scoured the woods around the town looking for Maria’s body, and Miramichi police began to scrutinize her husband’s actions. He didn’t seem terribly worried about his missing wife.

Life with Maria, he told friends, had been like being in prison. Soon after she vanished, he pawned some of their belongings, including Maria’s jewelry. He gave one of her necklaces and a gold pendant that read “90% bad” to a new girlfriend. His drug use, which Maria had worked hard to control, escalated; he was often spotted with the bleary eyes and erratic actions of a junkie.
Detectives doggedly continued to gather evidence, building a circumstantial case against him. As they closed in, Tanasichuk grew menacing, spewing out threats against the investigators and their families.
In late March, they nabbed him in what newspapers characterized as a “high-risk traffic stop.” Police found him tucked into the trunk of a buddy’s car with a loaded, sawed-off .22 beside him. As to what he was doing there or what he was planning, one officer said, “We can only speculate.” He was sentenced to serve one to 10 years on a weapons charge.
Detectives continued to gather clues and tried to guess where in this northern wilderness Maria’s body might be found.
Tanasichuk, an outdoorsman and hunter, knew his way around the woods and could have hidden a corpse anywhere and it would remain frozen and impossible to detect through the winter. After the thaw, there was a good chance that animals and decay would do away with the last trace of evidence.
With snow still on the ground, detectives probed with the kind of sonar that is used to locate avalanche victims. When that didn’t pan out, they turned to dogs, specifically a team of American 4-footed sleuths trained to use their exquisite noses to identify the unique scent of death. They reached across the border for help.
In May, several cadaver dogs and their handlers from the Maine Warden Service traveled from Bangor to Miramichi. After covering 137 miles with no luck, they went home “tired, footsore, and thoroughly depressed,” one handler wrote in her report on the search.

Kate Clark details Maria Tanasichuk's murder in new crime book "Death Dealer: How Cops and Cadaver Dogs Brought a Killer to Justice."
Two months later, it was a different story. Maine game warden specialist Deb Palman originally thought the odors that were assaulting her senses were coming from a dead moose; the area was filled with carcasses of wild animals that had died over the winter. Her partner, a German shepherd named Alex, knew better. He led her to the source of the stench and froze, signaling her to look. Hidden under branches and a green tarp was the decomposed corpse of a woman. Dental records confirmed that it was the remains of Maria Tanasichuk. Three .22 caliber bullets to her head had ended her life.

On Feb. 10, 2005, a jury found Tanasichuk guilty of Maria’s murder. His conviction was later overturned on appeal and he was granted a second day in court in April 2009. Again, a jury found him guilty. His sentence was life behind bars, with no chance of parole for a quarter of a century.

The memory of tragic Maria lives on as a life-sized red wooden silhouette in an exhibit of the New Brunswick Silent Witness Project, which memorializes women who were murdered by the men they loved.

YET again the parallels are very striking.

by missbeetle 30.09.14 8:25

Apropos of not much in particular, but connected with Kate and dogs...

...in the 'McCanns and the Conman' programme, words that jumped out at me from Andy the homeless man were -

"I'm just a man with two dogs".

by **PeterMac** 30.09.14 8:54

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/alice-gross-missing-madeleine-mccann-4348073

Alice Gross missing: Madeleine McCann search dogs used in hunt for missing teen
Sep 29, 2014 22:30 By Tom Pettifor
The springer spaniels, called Tito and Muzzy, are helping officers from more than 20 forces trying to find the 14-year-old who hasn’t been seen for over a month
The dogs are trained in finding concealed bodies
Police sniffer dogs used in searches for both Madeleine McCann and April Jones joined the hunt for missing schoolgirl Alice Gross.
The springer spaniels, called Tito and Muzzy, are helping a team of officers from more than 20 forces trying to find the 14-year-old who hasn’t been seen for over a month.
The dogs – trained in finding concealed bodies – are working with their South Wales police handlers.
A spokesman confirmed they took part in the ongoing hunt for Madeleine in June seven years after she disappeared aged three in Praia da Luz, Portugal.
They were also used during the hunt for five-year-old April before she was found murdered in 2012.
A statement issued said: “South Wales Police is supporting the Metropolitan Police investigation into missing teenager Alice Gross.
"The mutual aid provision consists of several members of the Specialist Search and Recovery Team.”
The hunt for Alice moved to Osterley Park in west London – two miles from the last sighting of her near the Grand Union Canal on August 28.
And a team of officers continue to comb through scrubland running alongside the canal.
Meanwhile detectives are sifting through hours of “crucial” CCTV footage from more than 300 cameras in a bid to piece together her last movements.
Convicted murderer Arnis Zalkalns, who was filmed cycling the same route as the teenager just 15 minutes later, remains the prime suspect in her disappearance.
Police are working with the authorities in his native Baltic state of Latvia to track down the labourer, who went missing a week after Alice.
Zalkalns, 41, was convicted of his wife’s murder in 1998 and served just seven years in jail before moving to the UK in 2007.
In Alice’s west London community, yellow ribbons adorn homes and railings.
Residents have been praised by police for their help in the case.
Alice’s mother Rosalind Hodgkiss said: “Every morning, as Alice’s disappearance grows longer and longer, brings new agony, new anguish.”

Can there be any remaining doubt in anyone's mind that DCI Redwood knows knows that Madeleine is dead, and has been since 3/5/7, or just before.
whatever he tells the McCanns, Mitchell, the public, or Winters and Goose

by HelenMeg 30.09.14 21:22

PeterMac wrote:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/alice-gross-missing-madeleine-mccann-4348073

Alice Gross missing: Madeleine McCann search dogs used in hunt for missing teen
Sep 29, 2014 22:30 By Tom Pettifor
The springer spaniels, called Tito and Muzzy, are helping officers from more than 20 forces trying to find the 14-year-old who hasn’t been seen for over a month
The dogs are trained in finding concealed bodies
Police sniffer dogs used in searches for both Madeleine McCann and April Jones joined the hunt for missing schoolgirl Alice Gross.
The springer spaniels, called Tito and Muzzy, are helping a team of officers from more than 20 forces trying to find the 14-year-old who hasn’t been seen for over a month.
The dogs – trained in finding concealed bodies – are working with their South Wales police handlers.
A spokesman confirmed they took part in the ongoing hunt for Madeleine in June seven years after she disappeared aged three in Praia da Luz, Portugal.
They were also used during the hunt for five-year-old April before she was found murdered in 2012.
A statement issued said: “South Wales Police is supporting the Metropolitan Police investigation into missing teenager Alice Gross.
"The mutual aid provision consists of several members of the Specialist Search and Recovery Team.”
The hunt for Alice moved to Osterley Park in west London – two miles from the last sighting of her near the Grand Union Canal on August 28.
And a team of officers continue to comb through scrubland running alongside the canal.
Meanwhile detectives are sifting through hours of “crucial” CCTV footage from more than 300 cameras in a bid to piece together her last movements.
Convicted murderer Arnis Zalkalns, who was filmed cycling the same route as the teenager just 15 minutes later, remains the prime suspect in her disappearance.
Police are working with the authorities in his native Baltic state of Latvia to track down the labourer, who went missing a week after Alice.
Zalkalns, 41, was convicted of his wife’s murder in 1998 and served just seven years in jail before moving to the UK in 2007.
In Alice’s west London community, yellow ribbons adorn homes and railings.
Residents have been praised by police for their help in the case.
Alice’s mother Rosalind Hodgkiss said: “Every morning, as Alice’s disappearance grows longer and longer, brings new agony, new anguish.”

Can there be any remaining doubt in anyone's mind that DCI Redwood knows knows that Madeleine is dead, and has been since 3/5/7, or just before.
whatever he tells the McCanns, Mitchell, the public, or Winters and Goose

No I dont think there can be. Read similar article in The Times this morning too.
I also think the general public's view on this has been slowly but surely changed from thinking Madeleine 'could be alive' to 'certainly dead'.