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Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

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Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by tigger on 26.09.12 14:53

Here is a comparative result from the GNR dogs and the EVRD dogs. I'm surprised to find that only the apartments belonging to OC were searched apparently. That would mean mrs. Fenn's apartment wasn't and a number of others.
I'm sure there are a number of topics on the apartments, to whom they belonged and wether they were searched - but can't find it. Meanwhile:

The GNR dogs
On 10th May at about 20h10, upon the request of the PJ, searches were carried out in all of the apartments belonging to blocks 4 and 5 of the OC, two tracker dogs and two search and rescue dogs being used for this operation, adopting the same methods as those used on 7th May, just that this time the apartments were all open and searched one by one, being accompanied by a representative from the resort, who had the keys to all the apartments (apart from those not under her administration) and also with the objective of helping with the searches. The collaboration of all the guests occupying the apartments at that time was requested for this purpose and those apartments that were found to be empty were opened by the administrator.
 
All the apartments were searched by the dogs and when they arrived at apartment 5J they began to sniff with intensity at the entrance door. During this behaviour it was noted by the PJ officers that there must be some unusual odour, but which with all certainty did not have anything to do with the odour being searched for, but there must have been something strange inside.
 
After entering the apartment, it was observed that the odour came from close to the fridge, which was open and contained some rotting meat and vegetables.
 
• Initiating the diligence, the first sniffer dog, after having smelled the towel used in the previous operation, began searching, it being certain that next to the doors of some apartment he demonstrated major interest whilst he did not even approach others. In none of these actions did the dog give him a signal that he had caught the scent of the missing child. It is certain however, that near apartment 5J, 5H and 4G, that the dog showed major interest in smelling the doors and the immediate areas. He states that next to 5H, there were two bags of rubbish which may condition the dog.
Just outside apartment 4G was a tray with plates, cutlery and cloth napkins, apparently used. It is certain that this apartment is the one where the missing child's parents were lodged (at the time).
In relation to the dog's interest at doorway 5J, the same may have been conditioned by the presence of people inside the apartment.
 
Martin Grimes and the EVRD Dogs:

Five apartments at a complex in Praia Da Luz. 
Mr. Murat's property at Pria Da Luz. 
Mr. McCann's Villa at Pria Da Luz ( Present occupancy). 
Articles of clothing from Mr. McCann's residence. 
Western beach Pria da Luz. 
Eastern Beach Pria Da Luz. 
10 Vehicles screened at Portimao. 
CANINE SEARCHES AT FIVE APARTMENTS AT PRIA DA LUZ. 

All five apartments were searched using the EVRD. The only alert indications 
were at apartment 5a, the reported scene.

Apartment B


We've searched this apartment with the victim recovery dog and he has shown no interest in the flat for what he he trained to find at all so we finished.

Apartment 5 D

We've put the victim recovery dog through this apartment, the only interest has been in some food that he has found, other than that there is no interest in anything that he has been taught to tell me that he has found.


Apartment H5

We searched this apartment and the dog hasn't shown any interest in this particular apartment, apart from around the table, where there was a tennis ball which is how we reward the dog for finding things, as soon as we removed the tennis ball the interest was gone. And so it was a negative search.


Apartment 4 G

We searched the apartment using the victim recovery dog. No response.
Negative search.

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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by tigger on 26.09.12 15:18

It just struck me that DP in the rogatory interview has a little memory lapse and turns a washing machine into a fridge.
Now, I feel that 's a strange thing to do because fridges don't need explaining in terms of use and therefore it is a less likely appliance to go wrong than a washing machine. So I believe his brain was possibly 'leaking' information.
( ”.... Err the, I know that again, you know Kate and Gerry had had problems err with I think it was the blinds in their flat and the fridge and they’d had people in err you know into the flat, you know which obviously retrospectively was a concern as well. Err yeah that, you know who were those people, had they been checked out.”)

Leaving a fridge open with meat and vegetables inside is the worst you can do.
So why was this particular fridge filled with meat and vegetables left to rot? There are adequate waste disposal bins around. Even then, no one in his right mind would leave a fridge door open. One fly gets in and in no time you'd have the apartment full of flies. Why not leave it closed?
It was cold, some days needed to have passed before the food began to rot and smell, presumably the shutters were down.

That's two times a fridge: the third one is the famous broken fridge dumped by Gerry.
My question is: would it have been the fridge in 5J which was dumped and replaced? It does make sense if a fridge close to apartment 5a had been used to store a body and then too, it makes sense to mask any possible smell with rotting meat.
In that case I would have expected the fridge to have been 'stocked' and left open some time around 2/5.

There is no further comment about this from the PJ I believe.





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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by bobbin on 26.09.12 22:22

@tigger wrote:It just struck me that DP in the rogatory interview has a little memory lapse and turns a washing machine into a fridge.
Now, I feel that 's a strange thing to do because fridges don't need explaining in terms of use and therefore it is a less likely appliance to go wrong than a washing machine. So I believe his brain was possibly 'leaking' information.
( ”.... Err the, I know that again, you know Kate and Gerry had had problems err with I think it was the blinds in their flat and the fridge and they’d had people in err you know into the flat, you know which obviously retrospectively was a concern as well. Err yeah that, you know who were those people, had they been checked out.”)

Leaving a fridge open with meat and vegetables inside is the worst you can do.
So why was this particular fridge filled with meat and vegetables left to rot? There are adequate waste disposal bins around. Even then, no one in his right mind would leave a fridge door open. One fly gets in and in no time you'd have the apartment full of flies. Why not leave it closed?
It was cold, some days needed to have passed before the food began to rot and smell, presumably the shutters were down.

That's two times a fridge: the third one is the famous broken fridge dumped by Gerry.
My question is: would it have been the fridge in 5J which was dumped and replaced? It does make sense if a fridge close to apartment 5a had been used to store a body and then too, it makes sense to mask any possible smell with rotting meat.
In that case I would have expected the fridge to have been 'stocked' and left open some time around 2/5.


There is no further comment about this from the PJ I believe.

Interesting thoughts here tigger. Payne does seem to make a habit of slipping up. There's the 'bag that wasn't big enough to 'hide' a tennis racket in and a fridge instead of a washing machine. Gerry did definitely refer to a dumped fridge. Many of us remember that and its reference from the owner that it was quite new. Then the info disappears. That's neon bright, taking info off, and all references wherever.
Did the dog actually sign at the fridge, or at the doorway? Who owns that apartment? Is it privately owned and were the people there recently enough to have put food in it? Did they leave in a hurry and forget to empty the fridge? Who had the key to the apartment? Ocean Club? Could Murat have had the key, or the Symingtons/ Ocean club owners? I wonder if the police did find this out.

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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by PeterMac on 26.09.12 22:36

Perhaps Payne,and not JT, is the weak link.
Perhaps there should be a thread concentrating purely on analysing his utterances.

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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by jd on 27.09.12 1:28

Sergei Malinka's mother was apparently an apartment cleaner at Ocean Club (Ocean Blue) and one of them was an apartment in block 5 on the top floor, so one would assume she would have a set of keys or at least be able to gain access to them

I think apartment 5J was an owner occupied apartment

It is certain however, that the dog signalled next to apartments 5J, 5H, and 4G. He showed great interest in sniffing these doors and the immediate areas. Next to door 5H there were two bags of rubbish and the odour may have distracted the dog. Outside 4G was a tray of plates, cutlery and cloth napkins that had apparently been used. This apartment is where the parents of the missing child were staying (at the time).......Apartment 5H was Paynes apartment wasn't it?


---------

A post from AnnaEsse.....For me, Gerrry McCann doesn't do anything for nothing, not even look for his daughter. Most parents whose child went missing would move Heaven and earth to search. They'd actually do some of the searching themselves. Gerry McCann set up a fund so that any searching was done by others. Sell his house or any of his property to help the search? No, just let small children sell cookies and older people send some cash from their pensions and use some of that money to pay his own mortgage. Taking out, not putting in.

Soon after Maddie disappeared, Gerry was told that he could have free drinks at the Tapas Bar. Now, if that was me, I'd assume that meant when I went there for an evening or for lunch or whatever and my upbringing would have me making sure I wasn't asking for free drinks: scrounging my parents would have called that. Yet, Gerry was so keen to take advantage of this offer, he went to the bar to get a couple of free bottles of wine to have with his visitors.

So, would Gerry replace a fridge in a rented apartment out of his own pocket? I doubt it. This wasn't a rent-free apartment. So, why would Gerry, the one who grabbed the free wine, not ask the owner to replace the fridge? And then, why would Gerry actually mention this in his blog? Perhaps if he had asked the owner, that person would have wanted to have the fridge inspected or get rid of it him/herself. So, generous Gerry gets rid of and replaces the fridge? No, I can't see him doing that unless there was something to be gained for him. To me, both Gerry and Kate are money-grubbers, expecting other people to finance them in whatever they care to do and better still, finance them so they can get others to do anything that needs doing.

In my opinion, Kate and Gerry McCann have the narcissistic sense of entitlement that leads them to expect that every word they utter will be treated like pearls of wisdom and never questioned and that other people will, of course, want to throw money at them and that they will not have to do anything other than count it. And God forbid that anyone should want to know what they did with the money! Gerry and Kate behave as if they are above explaining anything to anyone.


IMO this is where Robert Murat was helpful! He is a property developer with access to a lot of apartments in PDL and the surrounding lawless villages. He can't be 100% innocent in all this imo otherwise he would have kicked up a bigger stink than he has done!
----------

Tracker and Search dogs are trained to find the target scent they are given and to ignore anything else and one of the things / aids they specifically use when training these dogs to ignore scents, is food or the smell of food.....How is anybody certain that the towel used had any of Maddies scent on it? Didn't payne see kate mccann in her towel in one of the versions of the 5.30 or 7.30 visit to the apartment on the evening of May 3rd. Maybe the towel was one used on one of his kids? I bet that the towel and blanket that the mccanns gave to the police to use had no Maddie scent on it and they knew it!


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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by jd on 27.09.12 2:04

GNR Dogs & Search and Rescue Team

The whole idea of using Tracker Dogs and Search and Rescue Dogs is to follow and reconstruct a route that a person my have taken. This is done by using ‘target scents’, items used by the person which provide the dogs with that person’s scent. A towel, blanket and clothing believed to have been used by Madeleine were provided by the family for this purpose.

The cellular debris the dogs detect is believed to be a result of perspiration combined with skin oils that serves as a breeding ground for bacteria found on our skin / skin cells. Culture , diet , environment , and race are also influences unique to an individual and account for the singularity of a persons scent and which also forms the basis of the human scent trail.

Human beings loose approximately 4000 plus skin cells a minute and each cell is unique to that person and these dogs are capable of locating just one single cell.

The Search and Rescue Dog teams are specifically trained to find human scent and have to regularly meet certain standards and tests done to prove their competence.

The scent trail the dogs detected and followed just happens to be one that does not appear to correspond with a route which would be considered a normal route taken by Madeleine during their stay in PDL - this in its self is an important factor to consider given that at least four dogs all independently followed the same scent trail at different times and on different days.

The Search and Rescue dogs are trained to locate a scent no matter how much it is intermingled with other odours and dependant on environmental conditions, can detect that scent when it is days old. There will always be a question as to whether or not the scent was new and could it have dispersed, however this does not answer how or why days apart the dogs followed the same scent trail, clearly whatever the scent trail was, it didn’t appear to disperse.

The odds of all the dogs following the same trail by chance are too great given the number of variants in this case (by variants I mean the number of places where Madeleine should have left a scent trail prior to her going missing). This in itself could be an indication that all the dogs picked up what looks like the ‘freshest’ trail and even located it days apart.

Report on the Sniffer Dog Search and Rescue Team

“At 00.40, given the complexity of the situation that seemed to surround the disappearance, the GNR post commander requested reinforcements from two sniffer dog teams from the Portimao territorial group to help in the searches”

“ At 01.00 after the group commander had been briefed about the situation, telephone contact was made with an official from the Queluz GNR school, with the aim of their releasing search and rescue dog teams, seeing as these are specially trained to find missing persons, which is not the case with the Portimao sniffer dogs, which are essentially patrol dogs.”

“On 4th May, after having evaluated the situation surrounding the disappearance, the Lagos Post Commander ordered searches for the child to take place and contacted officers who were at home, forming a force of nine officers who searched during the night and early morning.

At 02.00 they arrived at P da L and began searching with the Portimao sniffer dog teams, the terrain searches were extended until the morning with the dogs and officers on the scene,.. “

“At 08.00 three officers with 4 search and rescue dogs from Queluz arrived at the scene, these dogs immediately began to operate.”

“ The sniffer dog search and rescue team of the GNR was sent to Vila da Luz in the attempt of locating Madeleine McCann, aged four, of British nationality, who disappeared on the night of 3rd May, from apartment 5 A, Block 5 of the OC resort, the team was composed as follows:”

Sargeant Silva – Dog: Timmy
Officer Cortez – Dog: Sacha
Officer Sousa – Dog: Kolly/Cookie
Officer Rosa – Dog: Oscar
Officer Martins – Dog: Fusco
Officer Fernandes – Dog: Rex/ Zarus

“During the afternoon of 4th May, more searches were carried out around Vila da Luz and were extended to a radius of approximately 600 metres, including the surroundings of the EN125 in the stretch closed to P da L.

At about 23.00 the extra teams that had been requested for reinforcement arrived (Officer Rosa with Oscar and Officer Martins with Fusco, both from the search and rescue unit and Officer Fernandes with Rex and Zarus from the tracking team).

After the officers had been updated about facts relating to the disappearance, they tried to reconstruct the route the girl might have taken with the two tracker dogs. For this purpose the dogs were given a blanket to sniff, provided by the parents, which had been used by Madeleine. [??]

Beginning to follow the track using Rex, from the door of apartment 5 A (the place where the girl had been sleeping) he would always head in the direction of Block 4, leaving block 5 the dog would turn to the left, pass by a metal access door to a path existing between the apartments blocks to the leisure area (restaurant, pool and playground). Immediately another attempt at reconstruction was made using the dog Zarus, who, in general terms, ended up following the same route as Rex and having the same behaviour.

It is important to state that this tracking work was carried out in an urban area and more than 24 hours after the girl’s disappearance and numerous persons had passed along the path the dogs were tracking. It should also be stated that the path the dogs followed within the resort was practically totally surrounded by walls and the concentration of odours was stronger as they were protected from the wind. The searches finished at about 01.30”

“ On 7th May the same searches were continued, being extended to to the entire northern part of Almadena to the site of Espojeiro and the verges of the EN125 until the Boi valley.

“At about 19.. the undersigned officer, accompanied by the Commander, Officer Silva, took part in a meetings with the PJ Directorate, being asked by the PJ about the viability of giving the girl’s clothes to the dogs for the dogs to sniff again, and if by means of the odour inhaled, they would be able to mark an identical odour in one of the resort’s apartments even though its door was closed.
....[Note: the mccanns had the clothes washed at OC on May 5th]

With regard to this task, Officer Silva referred to the fact that the time that had passed would be a crucial condition for the dogs’ work in obtaining results and that the entirety of the human odours existing in the apartments and access paths could make the dogs’ searches very difficult. However, in spite of not being a normal situation for tracking, it could be attempted, whilst the operation should be carried out as quickly as possible and not directed towards one but to all the apartments in the resort, it being appropriate for the handler not to know which apartment was chosen, so as not the be conditioned.

In this concrete situation, the objective would be for the dogs to carry out a discontinuous search, in other words, to sniff the girl’s clothes and immediately search near to the apartments, checking to see if there was any change in the behaviour of the dogs.”


“At about 23.00 accompanied by a PJ inspector, the searches were begun. After Rex was given the girl’s clothing to sniff, he began to search on the ground floor of block 5 and when he passed the door of apartment 5 A (the place the girl had disappeared from) according to his handler, officer Fernandes, the dog altered its behaviour, sniffing with greater intensity than he had done before. Apartment 5J of the same block was also checked as the dog had been more agitated than before as if there were a very strong strange odour there. It was stated that this apartment had been unoccupied for some time. Afterwards, the same kind of search was carried out using the dog Zarus which in general terms showed the same behaviour in the same places as Rex had done.”

“ On 10th May at about 20.10, upon the request of the PJ, searches were carried out in all of the apartments belonging to blocks 4 and 5 of the OC, two tracker dogs and two search and rescue dogs being used for this operation, adopting the same methods as those used on 7th May, just that this time the apartments were all open and searched one by one, being accompanied by a representative from the resort, who had the keys to all the apartments (apart from those not under her administration) and also with the objective of helping with the searches. The collaboration of all the guests occupying the apartments at that time was requested for this purpose and those apartments that were found to be empty were opened by the administrator.

All the apartments were searched by the dogs and when they arrived at apartment 5 J they began to sniff with intensity at the entrance door. During this behaviour it was noted by the PJ officers that there must be some unusual odour, but which with all certainty did not have anything to do with the odour being searched for, but there must have been something strange inside.

After entering the apartment, it was observed that the odour came from close to the fridge, which was open and contained some rotting meat and vegetables.

During the searches carried out in the apartments no sign of the girl was found by the dogs.”

“As you know, yesterday, 8 May 2007 at 23h45, the undersigned joined a search effected by the GNR dog team which targeted Blocks 5 and 4 of the Ocean Club resort and adjacent areas, with the objective of trying to reconstruct the possible route taken by the missing child on 3 May 2007.”
The GNR team performing the search had in its possession, packed in a plastic bag, a towel supposedly used to clean the missing youngster - Madeleine McCann - furnished by her parents.
- After the conditions for the search are met, the two GNR officers - the leader and the dog handler - gave the scent towel to one of the dogs to smell and led it into Block 5.

“It is true to say that the dogs effectively showed interest in the above-mentioned apartments, without giving an indication needed to their handler that they had [found] the presence of the trail of the missing child. It is also certain that the course that they made to the car park next to Block 6 was done without hesitation and in a most convincing manner.


- To better understand the routes taken by the dogs, there are attached four images/maps of the area of the Ocean Club resort, the route taken by the dogs from Block 5 to the car park being marked in red and yellow.

- Further, in an informal conversation with the GNR team, they advised that on the 4 May they had done the same work, with no control over the direction taken by the dogs, i.e. they were not directed into the buildings, it being certain that they took the same route described above, with the same attitude, losing the trail next to the car park of Block 6.


-= Whether relevant or not , there is a phenomena that has been noted by many trainers / dog handlers, some dogs will follow a persons scent trail, often many days old, but fail to close in on that person if the subjects has died.

They may register the scent change but whether from fear, difference in odour, or some other reason may not approach the body, appear confused and display different behaviour.. In reality the dog is showing an aversion to the scent emitted by the dead body (cadaver).

Though the dogs change in behaviour was put down to waist foodstuffs, the S&R Dogs are trained scent discrimination dogs, but they are not trained to locate the scent of a cadaver.
“ the dog altered its behaviour, sniffing with greater intensity than he had done before. Apartment 5J of the same block was also checked as the dog had been more agitated than before as if there were a very strong strange odour there”

“Afterwards, the same kind of search was carried out using the dog Zarus which in general terms showed the same behaviour in the same places as Rex had done.”

http://britishspoofreportingonmccanncase.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/evrd-and-csi-dogs.html RIP SteelMagnolia

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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by jd on 27.09.12 2:05

Places and Items where the EVRD and CSI Dogs Signaled

The first alert was given with the dogs head in the air without a positive area
being identified.

Rear bedroom of the apartment in the immediate right hand corner by
the door.

Living room, behind sofa.

Veranda outside parent's bedroom.

Garden area directly under veranda.

Cuddle Cat

Clothing belonging to Kate McCann x 2 - Trousers and a Top

Red Children’s T-Shirt

Hired Car – Renault Scenic
When passing a vehicle I now know to be hired and in the possession of the McCann family,
the dog's behaviour changed substantially. This then produced an alert
indication at the lower part of the driver’s door where the dog was biting and
barking. I recognise this behaviour as the dog indicating scent emitting from
the inside of the vehicle through the seal around the door.

Hired Car – Key Fob

Five apartments were searched using the EVRD.

Ten vehicles were screened in an underground multi storey car park at
Portimao.

The dogs only alerted to property and items associated with the McCann family.

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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by jd on 27.09.12 2:18

From Martin Grimes Report ;

“The dog will alert to the presence of cadaver scent whether it is at source or some distance away from a deposition site

False' positives are always a possibility; to date Eddie has not so indicated operationally or in training. In six years of operational deployment in over 200 criminal case searches the dog has never alerted to meat based and specifically pork foodstuffs designed for human consumption. Similarly the dog has never alerted to 'road kill', that is any other dead animal.”


The two English dogs were presented as an indispensable help to the investigation, after their abilities and the manner in which they are trained were explained in detail, as well as the fact that they both react to blood traces and cadaver odours, without a single episode of “false positives” in the investigations.

In a report, Mark Harrison listed cases of success that offered a guarantee of reliability. And he asserted that if the dogs came to signal Maddie’s death, then it would be a fact.

Meredydd Hughes, Chief Constable said:

Keela’s training gives the force an edge when it comes to forensic investigation, which we should recognise and use more often. Martin has developed this capability through innovation and experience, and we are now considering how best to develop the training further. We know other forces are interested, both here and abroad, and we must see what opportunities we can develop. We know we have an operationally excellent dog section, and our specialist dogs are being developed in a unique way.”

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Dogs times Creche

Post by Guest on 27.09.12 13:23

Has any of the dogs, patrol, EVRD or otherwise ever pointed to the Creche where Maddie supposedly spent almost all her final days?

It's almost as if the child exists only in our collective imagination: no DNA, no smell verifiably hers, that very tidy appartment as photographed immediately after she was reported missing. No toys, no clothes, no shoes, no toothbruss. No current pictures available the moment she urgently needed to be found.

It's the very weirdness, the unsettling and creepy weirdness of the case, that's part of the attraction of trying to contribute to solving it: to find out the truth of what happened to her and to see Justice done to whoever put het in Harm's way. (without harming her, of course!)

You cannot find any mystery game that will match this one.

Carry on!
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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by Snifferdog on 27.09.12 16:02

@jd wrote:GNR Dogs & Search and Rescue Team [snipped]

“At about 23.00 accompanied by a PJ inspector, the searches were begun. After Rex was given the girl’s clothing to sniff, he began to search on the ground floor of block 5 and when he passed the door of apartment 5 A (the place the girl had disappeared from) according to his handler, officer Fernandes, the dog altered its behaviour, sniffing with greater intensity than he had done before. Apartment 5J of the same block was also checked as the dog had been more agitated than before as if there were a very strong strange odour there. It was stated that this apartment had been unoccupied for some time. Afterwards, the same kind of search was carried out using the dog Zarus which in general terms showed the same behaviour in the same places as Rex had done.”

“ On 10th May at about 20.10, upon the request of the PJ, searches were carried out in all of the apartments belonging to blocks 4 and 5 of the OC, two tracker dogs and two search and rescue dogs being used for this operation, adopting the same methods as those used on 7th May, just that this time the apartments were all open and searched one by one, being accompanied by a representative from the resort, who had the keys to all the apartments (apart from those not under her administration) and also with the objective of helping with the searches. The collaboration of all the guests occupying the apartments at that time was requested for this purpose and those apartments that were found to be empty were opened by the administrator.

All the apartments were searched by the dogs and when they arrived at apartment 5 J they began to sniff with intensity at the entrance door. During this behaviour it was noted by the PJ officers that there must be some unusual odour, but which with all certainty did not have anything to do with the odour being searched for, but there must have been something strange inside.

After entering the apartment, it was observed that the odour came from close to the fridge, which was open and contained some rotting meat and vegetables.

During the searches carried out in the apartments no sign of the girl was found by the dogs.”

“As you know, yesterday, 8 May 2007 at 23h45, the undersigned joined a search effected by the GNR dog team which targeted Blocks 5 and 4 of the Ocean Club resort and adjacent areas, with the objective of trying to reconstruct the possible route taken by the missing child on 3 May 2007.”
The GNR team performing the search had in its possession, packed in a plastic bag, a towel supposedly used to clean the missing youngster - Madeleine McCann - furnished by her parents.
- After the conditions for the search are met, the two GNR officers - the leader and the dog handler - gave the scent towel to one of the dogs to smell and led it into Block 5.

“It is true to say that the dogs effectively showed interest in the above-mentioned apartments, without giving an indication needed to their handler that they had [found] the presence of the trail of the missing child. It is also certain that the course that they made to the car park next to Block 6 was done without hesitation and in a most convincing manner.


- To better understand the routes taken by the dogs, there are attached four images/maps of the area of the Ocean Club resort, the route taken by the dogs from Block 5 to the car park being marked in red and yellow.

- Further, in an informal conversation with the GNR team, they advised that on the 4 May they had done the same work, with no control over the direction taken by the dogs, i.e. they were not directed into the buildings, it being certain that they took the same route described above, with the same attitude, losing the trail next to the car park of Block 6.


-= Whether relevant or not , there is a phenomena that has been noted by many trainers / dog handlers, some dogs will follow a persons scent trail, often many days old, but fail to close in on that person if the subjects has died.

They may register the scent change but whether from fear, difference in odour, or some other reason may not approach the body, appear confused and display different behaviour.. In reality the dog is showing an aversion to the scent emitted by the dead body (cadaver).

Though the dogs change in behaviour was put down to waist foodstuffs, the S&R Dogs are trained scent discrimination dogs, but they are not trained to locate the scent of a cadaver.
“ the dog altered its behaviour, sniffing with greater intensity than he had done before. Apartment 5J of the same block was also checked as the dog had been more agitated than before as if there were a very strong strange odour there”

“Afterwards, the same kind of search was carried out using the dog Zarus which in general terms showed the same behaviour in the same places as Rex had done.”

http://britishspoofreportingonmccanncase.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/evrd-and-csi-dogs.html RIP SteelMagnolia

It is quite a coincidence the the hire car "also" had rotting meat in it as well.
Was the rotting meat deliberately planted in this fridge?
Is this the self same fridge that was mentioned in GM"s blog, the one that GM mentions was dumped?
Who did apartment 5J belong to? Pity the PJ did not investigate 5J sooner.
Does anyone know who apartment 5J belonged to?

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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by tigger on 27.09.12 17:32

I would have thought that there must be a list of who was in which apartment. But I've never seen one.
I would also have thought that all apartments, whether they belonged to OC or not, would have been searched.
But again, if they were, I haven't seen a report on it.

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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by Snifferdog on 27.09.12 19:58

IMO a cleaner would normally notice a fridge full of meat and vegetables standing open in a flat she is cleaning after the owner/tenant had left apartment 5J.

Does the fridge have a large separate freezer compartment big enough to hide a small body.
Correct me if I'm wrong but 5J is a private apartment so it was the reason why the PJ could not gain access to it at first, which gave enough time for the rotting meat and vegetables to really stink to cover the possibility of the fridge having malfunctioned making this cover up necessary.
IMO perhaps M's body was placed there on a previous holiday, as there was no opportunity to deal with it at the time, necessitating another visit to the resort in the immediate future. Therefore no DNA of M. /no hairs/no hairbrush/toothbrush/suitable photos etc etc. in apartment 5a.
JM did day 'he was not there to enjoy himself.'

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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by jd on 28.09.12 20:21

It is certain however, that the dog signalled next to apartments 5J, 5H, and 4G. He showed great interest in sniffing these doors and the immediate areas. Next to door 5H there were two bags of rubbish and the odour may have distracted the dog. Outside 4G was a tray of plates, cutlery and cloth napkins that had apparently been used. This apartment is where the parents of the missing child were staying (at the time).......Apartment 5H was Paynes apartment wasn't it?

Mrs J Weinburger, who travelled to Faro from Belfast on 28th April 2007, and stayed in Apartment “G4”...Is the same as 4G? (I guess so)

Weinburger's apartment was 3 doors down from the mccanns apartment 5A

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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by tigger on 28.09.12 20:43

@jd wrote:
It is certain however, that the dog signalled next to apartments 5J, 5H, and 4G. He showed great interest in sniffing these doors and the immediate areas. Next to door 5H there were two bags of rubbish and the odour may have distracted the dog. Outside 4G was a tray of plates, cutlery and cloth napkins that had apparently been used. This apartment is where the parents of the missing child were staying (at the time).......Apartment 5H was Paynes apartment wasn't it?

Mrs J Weinburger, who travelled to Faro from Belfast on 28th April 2007, and stayed in Apartment “G4”...Is the same as 4G? (I guess so)

Weinburger's apartment was 3 doors down from the mccanns apartment 5A

[...] Just outside apartment 4G was a tray with plates, cutlery and cloth napkins, apparently used. It is certain that this apartment is the one where the missing child's parents were lodged (at the time). (the GNR dogs)

So they alerted to the scent of the McCanns, not Maddie, most likely thanks to Gerry's towel....

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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by jd on 28.09.12 21:22

@tigger wrote:
@jd wrote:
It is certain however, that the dog signalled next to apartments 5J, 5H, and 4G. He showed great interest in sniffing these doors and the immediate areas. Next to door 5H there were two bags of rubbish and the odour may have distracted the dog. Outside 4G was a tray of plates, cutlery and cloth napkins that had apparently been used. This apartment is where the parents of the missing child were staying (at the time).......Apartment 5H was Paynes apartment wasn't it?

Mrs J Weinburger, who travelled to Faro from Belfast on 28th April 2007, and stayed in Apartment “G4”...Is the same as 4G? (I guess so)

Weinburger's apartment was 3 doors down from the mccanns apartment 5A

[...] Just outside apartment 4G was a tray with plates, cutlery and cloth napkins, apparently used. It is certain that this apartment is the one where the missing child's parents were lodged (at the time). (the GNR dogs)

So they alerted to the scent of the McCanns, not Maddie, most likely thanks to Gerry's towel....

On this basis, did the mccanns move to 5J after April 30th?

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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by Angelique on 29.09.12 1:05

Have just read on Joana Morais site that Eddie has died Sad

Has anyone else heard this?

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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by Guest on 29.09.12 10:26

Yes, it's on the topic "Eddie to sue South Yorkshire police for unfair dismissal".
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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by jd on 29.09.12 14:34

“It is true to say that the dogs effectively showed interest in the above-mentioned apartments, without giving an indication needed to their handler that they had [found] the presence of the trail of the missing child. It is also certain that the course that they made to the car park next to Block 6 was done without hesitation and in a most convincing manner.

- To better understand the routes taken by the dogs, there are attached four images/maps of the area of the Ocean Club resort, the route taken by the dogs from Block 5 to the car park being marked in red and yellow.

- Further, in an informal conversation with the GNR team, they advised that on the 4 May they had done the same work, with no control over the direction taken by the dogs, i.e. they were not directed into the buildings, it being certain that they took the same route described above, with the same attitude, losing the trail next to the car park of Block 6.”

The Weinburgers had a car, which they hired from Faro airport upon their arrival. Edmunds left early, so could have the Weinburgers? Edmunds, Naylor and Weinburgers appear to have booked this week at the very same time too, Carpenters very shortly after...coincidence?

The Weinburgers also had a 3 year old daughter. No record of their 3 year old daughter in creche that I can see, unless it was the 'sharks' club which only jez wilkins seems to have mentioned about

The Weinburgers mananged to book the Tapas on more than one occasion - May 1st and May 2nd

On the 'Maddie was here' mocumentary Paulo Reiss observed of possibly 2 apartments and 2 statements. There are no statements in the PJ files from the Weinburgers. "Channel 4 (probably inadvertently because many names and details had been redacted) revealed that “JW”, who has two daughters, was staying at the Ocean Club. The reference to “apartment 1”, on the following screenshot, is not believed to be the actual designation but an indication that earlier in the document two apartments had been referred to (Possibly one occupied by JW and another by her friends)"

Analysis of the Ocean Club Booking records indicates that “JW” may be Mrs J Weinburger, who travelled to Faro from Belfast on 28th April 2007, and stayed in Apartment “G4” (ie 3 doors away from the McCanns) in Waterside Gardens for seven days with her husband “P Weinburger”, a 3 year old daughter and an 11 month old infant. There is no trace of this family on the UK’s Electoral Roll, and no recorded directorships: this is fairly unusual for a British citizen unless there are security or other reasons for redaction.However, a “Paul M Weinberger”, who works for Enigma Diagnostics Limited is now based in Porton Down, Wiltshire. This is a private company, founded in 2004 as a joint venture between the UK Government - through the top secret Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down -and the private venture capitalists Porton Capital Technology Fund. Mr Weinberger was previously employed as Director of Business Development for Roche Diagnostics, the world’s largest diagnostic company. Mr Weinberger specialises in “in vitro diagnostics” and is a member of the Executive Committee of the “British In Vitro Diagnostics Association”. Porton Down is an Executive Agency of the Ministry of Defence and the site is said to be one of the UK’s most sensitive secret government facilities for military research especially related to chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear (Here we go again!) weapons...could this explain gordon browns 'national security' comment? and a big part reason all the big players are covering the lie of the mccanns?

Light was thrown on the identity of “JW” in an article in the Sun on 12th May 2009 by Antonella Lazzeri (another McCann close confidante) who stated:
• She is a 36 year old mother of two: one a 3 year old girl
She rented an apartment 3 doors away from Apartment 5A
• She reported her suspicions to her local police – in Wiltshire – in May 2007


G4 seems to be a block of apartments (jez wilkins stayed in block G4, apartment JMO).....3 doors away from the mccanns would be 5D which was jane tanners apartment. On the booking sheets it says the Weinburgers were in 4L. I can't see how 4L is 3 doors away looking at the apartments below. Unless it is the L above the paynes, but this is block 5 and apartment 5L?


If Jenni Weinburger reported her sighting to the local police in Wiltshire who then advised the Leicestershire police...with no record of this in the public released PJ files, how would kate mccann know about this to ring up Jenni Weinburger 2 years later on the eve of the Maddie was Here mocumentary? And how would she get her phone number? Do they have access to more documents that the public do not? Have Leicestershire police told them more than they should have done? Its the only way the mccanns would know more information the public released files do not show

Apparently there was a photofit based on Jenni Weinburger's description of 'Pimpleman' put together, Ive never seen anything to suggest this came from Jenni Weinburger, nor was it ever mentioned in the documentary..All highly suspicious

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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by tigger on 29.09.12 19:09

So now we have McKenzie, Edmonds and Weinberger, all giving somewhat late support to the McCanns - respectively with cigarette butts, a photograph to prove Madeleine was alive on the 3rd and the suspicious person Mrs. W saw. How very helpful.

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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by jd on 29.09.12 23:30

@tigger wrote:So now we have McKenzie, Edmonds and Weinberger, all giving somewhat late support to the McCanns - respectively with cigarette butts, a photograph to prove Madeleine was alive on the 3rd and the suspicious person Mrs. W saw. How very helpful.

I'm also thinking who would the mccanns trust to get the towel and blanket from to use...Whoever it was seemed to have a car too from the tracker dogs trail

If gerry mccann is signing into creche the Naylor daughter then there is more than a good chance he knew the Weinbergers too (after all, they were all there for business), and especially as kate mccann could phone them up 2 years later when they are not in the PJ files

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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by jd on 30.09.12 19:06

Its interesting that Jeni Weinberger gave her "statement" to Wiltshire police. Maybe the Weinberger's left early like Edmunds?

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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by sami on 30.09.12 19:23

@jd wrote:
@tigger wrote:So now we have McKenzie, Edmonds and Weinberger, all giving somewhat late support to the McCanns - respectively with cigarette butts, a photograph to prove Madeleine was alive on the 3rd and the suspicious person Mrs. W saw. How very helpful.

I'm also thinking who would the mccanns trust to get the towel and blanket from to use...Whoever it was seemed to have a car too from the tracker dogs trail

If gerry mccann is signing into creche the Naylor daughter then there is more than a good chance he knew the Weinbergers too (after all, they were all there for business), and especially as kate mccann could phone them up 2 years later when they are not in the PJ files



The Gorrods had a car, and Charlotte Gorrods name was on the apartment booking sheet next to apartment C5. We know also they met with at least the Jane Tanner family during the holiday.

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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by tigger on 30.09.12 19:50

Dogs used in Madeleine McCann search not properly trained Sunday Mail

Aug 10 2008

SNIFFER dogs used to search for Madeleine McCann were not properly trained.

Police used dogs more suited to rural work to search a 10-mile radius of the Ocean Club complex in Praia da Luz where Maddie was snatched on May 3 last year.

The dogs lost her trail in the nearby car park.

It is the latest damning revelation to emerge after the release of files from the bungled Portuguese police investigation.

Prosecutors Joao Melchior Gomes and Jose de Magalhaes e Menezes slated the probe, noting detectives had "achieved very little in terms of conclusive results".

The report also damned the Portuguese police for failing even to establish if the five-year-old is alive or dead.
Unquote.

Not important except in view of the pro publicity at the time when the police files had just been released.
Losing the trail in the car park would certainly point to a car.... but the Mail missed that bit.

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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by sami on 30.09.12 20:07

Well, here is a car and interestingly enough in the right place, at the right time (thanks to mccannpjfiles)


Another witness with the surname da Silva - Maria Manuela Martins da
Silva - said was visiting the sister of her boyfriend in another Ocean
Club apartment (Block 6, Apartment 5) during the afternoon and evening
of 3 May. From the ground floor kitchen window of that apartment, there
was a direct view across to the back windows of the apartment occupied
by Madeleine McCann [Source: Police Files 02 - Processos Volume II,
Pages 469 to 470a].

Unusually, some five days later, Maria was
able to recall the exact time she left that apartment - 9.58pm. She says
she remembers the exact time because she asked her friend the time, and
she responded after checking this on the telephone in the lounge. Maria
da Silva left with her boyfriend in a green Opel Frontera, parked in
the private parking area of Block 6. As they drove away, she recalled
seeing a small car, perhaps grey in colour, parked close to the window
of the McCann apartment. By coincidence the route taken by GNR officer,
Pedro Miguel Esteves Fernandes and the Search & Rescue dogs in the
early hours of 4 May, lost track of Madeleine's scent in the private
parking area of Block 6.

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Re: Dogs, more dogs, fridges and apartments.....

Post by tigger on 30.09.12 20:54

Aha! v good Sami!.
Not that I think the scent they followed was Maddie's, but certainly a scent provided by the McCanns. In their place, I would certainly have made sure a towel would have a strong scent on it for the dogs to follow. Still think the first idea was to have dogs follow the scent into PdL - being seen by a couple of people and having the dogs follow that trail would cinch the abduction I'd think.
When that became difficult, the alternative route was chosen? Just wittering here, you understand...

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McCanns apt & hire car


Blood and cadaver alerts
dismissed by UK Government


Retired DCI Gonçalo Amaral: "The English can always present the conclusions to which they themselves arrived in 2007. Because they know, they have the evidence of what happened - they don't need to investigate anything. All this is now a mere 'show off'."

Retired murder DCI Colin Sutton: "I would also like to make the point that Operation Grange was so restricted from the start as to be destined to fail."

Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley made public on national TV that Operation Grange is a complete fraud.

Ex-DCI Andy Redwood had a "revelation moment" on BBC's Crimewatch on 14th October 2013 when he announced that Operation Grange had eliminated the Tanner sighting - which opened up the 'window of opportunity', in accordance with their remit, to allow the fake abduction to happen.

Despite "irrelevant behaviour" from blood and cadaver dogs in the McCann's apartment, on Kate McCann's clothes, and in the car they hired three weeks after Maddie disappeared, Ex-Chief Inspector, Ian Horrocks, said: "The thought that Kate and Gerry McCann had anything to do with the death of their daughter is frankly preposterous."

Gerry McCann called for example to be made of 'trolls'. SKY News reporter Martin Brunt doorstepped Brenda Leyland on 2 October 2014. She was then found dead in a Leicester hotel room. Brenda paid the price. She paid with her life.

Ex-Deputy Chief Constable, Jim Gamble QPM, congratulated SKY reporter, Martin Brunt, on twitter for doorstepping Brenda Leyland on behalf of Gerry McCann.

Prime Minister Theresa May introduces Prime Suspect Kate McCann to Royalty: The Duchess of Gloucester.

Good Cop Down: The reality of being a police whistleblower
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