Re: Who killed JonBenet Ramsay?

by Rainbow 06.10.10 18:00

soulthief wrote:Nothing would surprise me, would depend on what she was hit with and how. two teens today charged with snatching a baby form the mother and throwing under a bus, look at Mary Bell, who killed three kids when she was 8..the Bulger killers, Age stands for nothing..

Yes I agree however it was the force of the blow that caused Burke to be ruled out.

by aiyoyo 07.10.10 5:17

Autumn wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1317866/Police-hope-quiz-JonBenet-Ramsays-brother-beauty-queen-murder-reopened.html#ixzz11TydNeEt

There was a nineteenth-century case which, at its time, was every bit as notorious as those of JonBenet Ramsey and Madeleine McCann.

The case has been written up in a book I read recently: 'The Suspicions of Mr Whicher', which is to be made into a film.

This gruesome case concerned a 3-year-old boy (Savile, I think his name was) found gruesomely murdered with his throat cut and his body stuffed into an outside privy of a wealthy Victorian family house at Roade, Wiltshire.

Inspector Whicher was one of the first-ever police detectives and his characteristics bore more than a passing resemblance to those of Goncalo Amaral.

The evidence, he suggested, turned on a missing blanket (!).

He arrested and charged the 14-year-old half-sister of the boy with the murder, but local magistrates threw the case out. He was then publicly ridiculed for jumping to conclusions and rushing in with too little evidence...rings a bell?

The father of these two had re-married and outrageously favoured the little boy over his two children from his first wife. His second wife treated the children of the first wife abominably, leading to a cauldron of seething resentment against the new wife.

Many years later, the 14-year-old half-sister made a full and frank confession to the nmurder, and she had indeed hidden the missing blanket. The only doubt was whether her brother might have been an accomplice. She said not.

So I by no means rule out the possibility of the 9-year-old brother, fed up to the back teeth with all the attention being focussed on JonBenet, lashing out at her on the night of Christmas Day/Boxing Day.

Whilst on this gruesome subject of intra-family murder, I wish to mention the case of Ben Needham. The morning Ben Needham vanished, his 19-year-old uncle, Stephen, had been playing with the toddler on his motorbike, at the front of the house. Ben's grandparents were sunning themselves in the garden. Ben's mother was working as a waitress in one of the main hotels on the island of Kos. After lunch at mid-day, Stephen rushed off on his motor-bike - and little Ben, who had again been playing on the motor-bike with Stephen after lunch, was enver seen again.

Did Stephen roar away with Ben also on the motor-bike?

It was a theory the Greek police pursued.

I recall watching a documentary about Ben Needham's disappearance and it was established that Stephen had been the last person to see him.. He had been letting Ben ride on his motor-bike and, although I cannot remember what evidence was put forward to support this theory, it was suggested that he may have had an accident resulting in serious injury or death. Didn't the grandparents claim that gypsies must have taken Ben?

Was stephen eliminated by the police? They should beat a confession out of him imo.

by aiyoyo 07.10.10 5:19

Rainbow wrote:
soulthief wrote:Nothing would surprise me, would depend on what she was hit with and how. two teens today charged with snatching a baby form the mother and throwing under a bus, look at Mary Bell, who killed three kids when she was 8..the Bulger killers, Age stands for nothing..

Yes I agree however it was the force of the blow that caused Burke to be ruled out.

Who had ruled him out? The Police?

by Rainbow 07.10.10 8:15

Yes they cleared him.

by aiyoyo 07.10.10 8:32

They're making a u-turn then.

by soulthief 07.10.10 8:48

Each child has differing strengths, perhaps the brother fatally injured her and Patsy or John finished her off? What rules this out as stranger for me is that ransom note, the time the perp was in the house...its just too weird..none of it makes sense for a stranger, same as Madeleine being taken out of her bed by a stranger...

by aiyoyo 07.10.10 10:49

No trace of break in and not a shred of evidence of intruder, yeap for me too it had to be an inside job.
Who exactly? Maybe a collective few -- who knows...hope the police crack the case soon.

by soulthief 07.10.10 16:37

Its a sad state of affairs when cases like this dont get solved...There is no evidence to point to this being some random abductor..but plenty to say 'something stinks here'.

by Judge Mental 07.10.10 17:59

When reading about unsoved cases such as this, it becomes apparent that there are few prosecutions of those who have the wealth and resources to engage the best lawyers.

by Rainbow 07.10.10 18:04

aiyoyo wrote:They're making a u-turn then.

No they aren't,merely handing out their calling cards to all around at the time and requesting they be phoned if they want to talk.

by Guest 07.10.10 18:17

Rainbow wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:They're making a u-turn then.

No they aren't,merely handing out their calling cards to all around at the time and requesting they be phoned if they want to talk.

Well, let's hope they all want to talk and help solve this crime, those that don't will look mighty suspicious.

by Rainbow 07.10.10 19:12

Problem is quite a few have died now including Patsy.

by Guest 07.10.10 19:17

Rainbow wrote:Problem is quite a few have died now including Patsy.

[quote Rainbow]
No they aren't,merely handing out their calling cards to all around at the time and requesting they be phoned if they want to talk

Er Rainbow, they wouldn't be handing out calling cards to the dead, well at least I hope not smilie

by Rainbow 07.10.10 21:03

Lol who knows? I am sure there are plenty of psychics and mediums to shove their oar in laugh

by aiyoyo 08.10.10 1:44

Rainbow wrote:Lol who knows? I am sure there are plenty of psychics and mediums to shove their oar in

Hello Inspector, tis's patsy ramsey here, is't you who shoved card in my box?

What! about the 'ransom note'? Well, I'm still not telling you, and you cant get me.
lol!

by **Tony Bennett** 02.01.11 10:47

Here's some more material on the murder of JonBenet Ramsey that I came across recently on konformist.com

Some of the article, titled 'Daddy's Little Princesses', goes way too far in speculating about certain topics, but I believe the undermentioned extract is factual - and very concerning:

QUOTE

And so, on Boxing Day, the morning after this metaphorically significant day, a phone call was placed in Boulder, Colorado at 5:52 A.M.

The receiver of the call was a 911 dispatcher for the Boulder Police Department. The sender of the call was an ex-beauty queen named Patsy Ramsey. The message? "Send help. Send help."

Help was indeed sent. As Officer Richard French arrived less than seven minutes later, Patsy was in hysterics. She showed Officer French a three page handwritten note. As she wept, her husband John appeared cool and collected, although he appeared to pace quite a bit.

The note began simply enough: "Mr. Ramsey," it stated. "Listen carefully! We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We respect your business but not the country that it serves. At this time we have your daughter in our possession."

Written in block letters with a black felt-tip pen, the note had some major oddities. The author knew of John's business activities and a recent huge bonus he had received. The amount demanded for ransom was $118,000, the identical amount to his bonus. The money, the note said, was to be in $100,000 in $100 bills and the rest in $20 bills, placed in "an adequate size attaché case" (the note had an accent mark on the e for attaché, just as there is on the second e of JonBenét.) The note had details of Mr. Ramsey's career in the Navy, describing a year he spent in the Philippines at Subic Bay, called in the note the SBTC, as though the writer referred to the place often by those initials. It also had phrases such as "The delivery will be exhausting," "Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter," and "we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics," the kind of jargon popular in military memos. Finally, the note referred to him as "John" 3 times in the last paragraph, but only as Mr. Ramsey in the formal opening. Based on this evidence, it was clear that the writer of the note was a sophisticated person with a military background and intimate knowledge of John Ramsey's life.

Seven hours later, JonBenét, their lovely six-year-old daughter and a regular child-beauty pageant champion, was found, dead. Her body was sprawled on the cement floor of a windowless little room in the basement. Dressed in a white knit shirt and long underwear, there was duct tape over her mouth and a garrote made from a white cord around her throat. Another cord was around her right wrist. The body was covered with a white blanket, and her red pageant nightgown was laid beside her. She had a red-ink drawing of a heart on her left palm.

John Ramsey had found the body himself, after his wife had said, "I want you to search this house. From top to bottom." He immediately bolted to the basement, stopping at a small broken window on the north side of the house, which caused Fleet White, Mr. Ramsey's best friend, to notice the anomaly. Of course, only a midget or child could fit through the window, not likely candidates as big time kidnappers. There were a lot of rooms and corridors in the basement, but John went directly to the one where JonBenét was found.

He immediately yanked the tape from her mouth and carried her upstairs, laying her on the upstairs living room floor. As a Vanity Fair source reports, "What was interesting was when Ramsey brought the body upstairs he never cried. But when he laid her down, he started to moan, while peering around to see who was looking at him." Patsy then collapsed on top of JonBenét and began praying to Jesus. The net affect of their actions was to hinder the investigation by messing up the crime scene.

Despite the lack of the crime scene, one thing is immediately apparent: the "kidnapping" story is thoroughly implausible. Kidnappers don't make a habit of killing their ransoms, and if they do, they certainly don't leave the booty behind. Even if JonBenét was murdered in an accident, they would've dragged her corpse along and continued their extortion ploy. Furthermore, there was no sign of a forced entry, no footprints in the melting snow around the house, and, though the Ramsey's would later insist they didn't set their alarm system at night, there was no way for the "kidnappers" to know that.

Further facts began to be revealed: a "practice" ransom note was discovered, on the same legal paper as the final note. A practice note would not be carried to the premises, so that means both notes were written there, meaning that the "kidnapping" tale was a last- minute created fantasy, likely to cover up an "accidental" slaying.

As Vanity Fair reported, the autopsy revealed more, with phrases like "chronic inflammation" and "epithelial erosion" among the highlights of the redacted report. Dr. Richard Krugman, a child abuse specialist, noted a vaginal abrasion which "is a sign of trauma, [but] it's not a sign of sexual abuse necessarily." Dr. Robert Kirschner of the University of Chicago's pathology department went even further, pointing out that her vaginal opening was twice the normal size for six-year-olds. He stated, "The genital injuries indicate penetration, but probably not by a penis, and are evidence of molestation that night as well as previous molestation."
There was also blood and urine stains on JonBenét's underpants, a cleaned-up crime scene and body, and evidence that the child had been "re-dressed" after the murders, with the cords around her neck and wrist loose as though it was staged.

Right now, it may be a good time to stand back and state what is rather apparent: either the Ramsey's were the killers or assistants in the murder, or they have been the victims of some rather hi-tech silent midgets with no footprints.

Dr. Cyril Wecht, the forensic pathologist better known for his criticism of the JFK autopsy, has no doubt about molestation or who the guilty party is. "This to me is evidence of sexual abuse," he said in a newspaper interview. "I think any forensic gynecologist and forensic pathologist would agree with that." He would also state, point blank, "If she had been taken to a hospital emergency room, and doctors had seen the genital evidence, her father would have been arrested."

Of course, whenever someone has pointed any finger of guilt in this case, the "legitimate" arm of the korporate media has long condemned it as a "rush to judgement", as though the Cliff Notes evidence just detailed isn't compelling enough. Instead, the korporate press has long bent over backwards in this case. Newsweek would report early on that Ramseys' experts concluded neither John nor Patty wrote the notes, as though the Ramsey experts were not biased. (In fact, an investigator of the ransom note testing states, "Out of the 74 names submitted for testing, Patsy's handwriting was the only one that set off alarm bells," and handwriting analyst Sheila Lowe has found the note and Mr. Ramsey's known writing "very similar".) Newsweek's cover story report on the subject in January 1997 not once suggested that the Ramseys were involved (though such beliefs were already circulating), and took the whole case as a "mystery" and presenting the kidnapping tale as plausible. If any blame was placed on the parents, it involved their usage of JonBenét in beauty pageants, a predictably pious condemnation while they tried to find some sort of "meaning" behind the Boulder slaying, thus allowing them to discuss the subject while avoiding the facts.

UNQUOTE

by BoSelecta 02.01.11 12:59

Sorry not had time to read all this discussion but am i wrong in thinking that they parents were totally cleared in in this case and that someone else has been found guilty of it?

by **Tony Bennett** 02.01.11 13:23

BoSelecta wrote:Sorry not had time to read all this discussion, but am I wrong in thinking that the parents were totally cleared in this case and that someone else has been found guilty of it?

I can see where you got this from.

Mrs Ramsey is dead now by the way.

A recent District Attorney ruled that someone else's DNA had been found on JonBenet's clothes and - IMO bizarrely - claimed that this somehow exonerated the parents. Indeed, he went beyond that and apologised to the parents.

The owner of this DNA has not been traced and so no-one has yet been found guilty of murdering JonBenet.

Have a look when you have a moment at some of the longer postings within this thread, which IMO should leave you in no doubt that Jon Benet was killed by one or more of the following:

Mr Ramsey
Mr Ramsey
Their son
Another person who was in the house on Christmas Day with the consent of the Ramseys.

Only high-level connections and lots of money have prevented the Ramseys being charged with murder, or at the very minimum with covering up a murder.

By the way, there was a recent report that a police force was going to re-interview the boy, who is now an adult.

by BoSelecta 02.01.11 13:32

What is bizarre of someone elses DNA being found? If a relative of yours was found murdered or something (hope not) and you was accused of it, but you know you didn't do it, would you not be relieved to have someone else's DNA found? Or would it still point towards your guilt?
Sorry but i do not see the logic in your argument but maybe you could explain more.

by Judge Mental 02.01.11 13:33

The note began simply enough: "Mr. Ramsey," it stated. "Listen carefully! We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We respect your business but not the country that it serves. At this time we have your daughter in our possession."

Have we not heard something along the same lines in Madeleine's case? There have been points where the public were meant to believe that Madeleine was being held by a British or foreign paedophile gang. Indeed, McCann was overheard speaking on a telephone very shortly after the abduction declaration, and he was already trying to convince whomever was on the receiving end, that Madeleine had been taken by a gang of paedophiles. Most odd that he should say this without having first checked that she was not having milk and biscuits in a neighbouring property, or at the bottom of a swimming pool in somebody's garden.

by **Tony Bennett** 02.01.11 13:58

BoSelecta wrote:What is bizarre of someone elses DNA being found? If a relative of yours was found murdered or something (hope not) and you was accused of it, but you know you didn't do it, would you not be relieved to have someone else's DNA found? Or would it still point towards your guilt?
Sorry but i do not see the logic in your argument but maybe you could explain more.

I think it would be best if you read a selection of the material on this awful case and then came back with your question.

Don't tell me you seriously consider that a stranger entered the house and left on Christmas night, leaving no prints in the snow, through a high window you could barely climb through, found JonBenet without anyone hearing him, killed her, then wrote a trial ransom note, then a 'final' ransom note, in what looked like Mrs Ramsey's handwriting, and used phrases Mrs Ramsey was known to use, with intimate knowledge of Mr Ramsey's recent business dealings, then carefully re-dressed JonBenet after garotting her, and left with no trace except some DNA on her clothes?

Tell me you don't believe such rubbish.

ETA: I used to know someone once on a forum who started off every other sentence with 'Sorry but'...

by BoSelecta 02.01.11 14:03

You are only surmising really and putting your thoughts across, i accept that, however i do not agree with them, do you accept that. Have you ever heard of people committing crimes before it snows, or it snows heavy covering tracks?

Also i know of people on forums who start sentences with I think and Don't tell me, but i am not implying anything.

BoSelecta has been banned as it is clear that s/he is not on here to help us solve the mystery of what really happened to Madeleine McCann but rather is here to advance the McCann Team's agenda at every opportunity

by Judge Mental 02.01.11 16:04

One wishes to add that any abduction theorists who insist on bringing pornographic links to this site will be banned, and their IPs and postings kept for future reference..

by aiyoyo 03.01.11 1:42

I didnt realise the 'kidnapper' left a long literature note as 'ramson' almost like a brochure!
Christ on a bike - sounds like a very 'literate' kidnapper who had plenty time on hand - what a load of rubbish,yet there are people taken in by media spin.

Isnt it just 'bloody marvellous' to have money, influence and connections - hide a multitude of sins!

by misgrace 02.05.11 16:57

I have never believed the Ramseys killed their daughter,i watched an excellent documentary on this by an ex american cop,and he stated that Jonbenet had an instrument inserted into her,and she had been bludgeoned on her head,and that during the garroting she would of woken to see the killer infront of her,does anyone really think the Ramseys could of been party to that,never,they weren't deranged ,also John Ramsey lost his first daughter years before and was heartbroken,does anyone think he could murder his child after suffering so much when he lost his first child at the age of 22yrs,and don't forget that dna has been found that doesn't belong to the Ramseys or their son,Patsy Ramsey knew she was dying,if she had done this henious crime she could of exonerated her husband,but she made no confession finally being buried beside her beloved child.

by soulthief 03.05.11 11:15

misgrace wrote:I have never believed the Ramseys killed their daughter,i watched an excellent documentary on this by an ex american cop,and he stated that Jonbenet had an instrument inserted into her,and she had been bludgeoned on her head,and that during the garroting she would of woken to see the killer infront of her,does anyone really think the Ramseys could of been party to that,never,they weren't deranged ,also John Ramsey lost his first daughter years before and was heartbroken,does anyone think he could murder his child after suffering so much when he lost his first child at the age of 22yrs,and don't forget that dna has been found that doesn't belong to the Ramseys or their son,Patsy Ramsey knew she was dying,if she had done this henious crime she could of exonerated her husband,but she made no confession finally being buried beside her beloved child.

Funny enough I saw that documentary, I also saw one where people claimed to have seen a swarthy geezer carrying a child the night Madeleine McCann went missing .

by Letterwriter 03.05.11 22:01

misgrace wrote:I have never believed the Ramseys killed their daughter,i watched an excellent documentary on this by an ex american cop,and he stated that Jonbenet had an instrument inserted into her,and she had been bludgeoned on her head,and that during the garroting she would of woken to see the killer infront of her,does anyone really think the Ramseys could of been party to that,never,they weren't deranged ,also John Ramsey lost his first daughter years before and was heartbroken,does anyone think he could murder his child after suffering so much when he lost his first child at the age of 22yrs,and don't forget that dna has been found that doesn't belong to the Ramseys or their son,Patsy Ramsey knew she was dying,if she had done this henious crime she could of exonerated her husband,but she made no confession finally being buried beside her beloved child.

It's a common mistake people make - judging other's by one's own values. What might be unthinkable to you is perfectly possible for others.

There are that many proven instances of parents doing terrible things to their own children that anyone who presumes it is an impossibility hasn't read the papers much. Put evidence over assumption and your conclusions will rest on firmer foundations.

by Guest 14.05.11 17:44

My thoughts exactly Letterwriter. As with Madeleine, I would love to believe that her parents had nothing to do with what happened to their daughter but the evidence just doesn't support it.

by dragonfly 15.07.11 17:58

There is a site very similar to this one but on Jon Bennet Ramsey

I noticed that one of the posters is called Jayelles - Alert viewer scotland---- Is this the same one that challenged or backed out of from Tony?
Dont get me wrong I have only read a few of Jayelles posts on the JBR forum which seem to be against the parents of JBR ,
Ive never read anything this Jayelles has wrote only the posting Tony has put on here,

Well this jayelles seems to see herself as a detective making a mock up body of JBR see on the link

This is a quote from Jayelle
'What do we expect from Ramsey devotees? They believe every word of the gospel according to St Ramsey'

I ask is this the same Jayelle who will not have anything said about the Mccan's ?

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7128

by Guest 15.07.11 19:48

That's an interesting posting, Dragonfly. If this is one and the same person you'd think that she would be consistent with her opinions of the parents as there are some similarities between the cases. There has been nothing new added on the site for over two years which does suggest that Jayelles is now too busy with other projects!