Re: Who killed JonBenet Ramsay?

by **Hobs** 15.04.16 12:09

bristow wrote:From The Mail.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3538060/JonBenet-Ramsey-s-REAL-murderer-26-year-old-son-junkyard-owner-killed-death-claims-investigator-hired-child-beauty-queen-s-parents.html

The private investigator is probably working to a specific remit as in, you can look at everyone and everything except us as parents and buerk.
You can only investigate this as homicide by stranger.

He will also have signed a gagging clause so that anything he found that pointed to a family member committing the crime cannot be made public in any way shape or form.

He certainly isn't going to be hired by john ramsey to then point the accusing finger at the parents.
He isn't going to say "My client is the one who killed her/ knows who killed her"

by **Jill Havern** 03.06.18 8:06

High-profile forensic psychiatrist, who raised suspicions about JonBenet Ramsey's family during her murder investigation, is shot dead outside his office

The forensic psychiatrist who assisted in the investigations into the death of American child beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey has been shot dead outside his office.
Dr. Steven Pitt, 59, helped investigate the high profile 1996 murder case as well as a string of other killings in the Phoenix area more than a decade ago.
In JonBenet’s case Pitt believed the pineapple found in the six-year-old’s digestive tract, which her mother denied she ate, was proof of a family cover up.

He was leaving his office when witnesses say they heard a loud argument then gunfire as he was shot on Thursday.
His office is located near the intersection of 71st Street and Bell Road in Scottsdale, a suburb of Phoenix.
Phoenix police say Pitt was 'critically wounded' when officers first arrived on the scene, according to ABC15.
A flyer from the police department says he was found deceased from a gunshot wound Thursday at 5:23pm.

Who killed JonBenet Ramsay? - Page 8 237

Phoenix police spokesman Sgt. Vince Lewis says he has no information on whether the killing is connected to his work, according to Tuscon.com.
'We are not ruling anything out, but at this point, a loud argument probably suggests they knew each other either professionally or personally,' Lewis said.
Investigators have released a sketch of the suspect, who fled the scene.

Who killed JonBenet Ramsay? - Page 8 158

Police describe him as a Caucasian man who is bald and was seen wearing a dark-colored hat with a short brim.
Pitt is known for assisting in six-year-old JonBenet's death investigation after she was found brutally murdered in her Boulder, Colorado home.
The psychiatrist believed the pineapple found in JonBenet's digestive tract was a key to the investigation as it was proof she ate not long before she died.
Her mother Patsy said that the beauty queen hadn't eaten any fruit before she went missing, however the mother's fingerprints were found on the fruit bowl, raising Pitt's suspicions towards a cover up.

Who killed JonBenet Ramsay? - Page 8 327

'The fingerprints on the bowl or cup that were used to give JonBenét the pineapple were Patsy’s fingerprints,' Pitt formerly said to People Magazine.
'It suggests someone is not telling the truth about what happened at that home that night,' he added.
A prosecutor later cleared her parents and brother in 2008 based on DNA evidence.
Pitt also aided in the investigation of the Baseline Killer in Phoenix in 2006, hunting down a man later convicted of killing nine people.

He also consulted in the 1999 Columbine High School shooting.
His most recent case was on a spree of shootings in the Maryvale area that started in April where six have been shot and one victim shot last month died from their injuries this week.
A friend of Pitt and a fellow Phoenix psychologist David Weinstock told the Arizona Republic he speculates a person connected to one of Pitt's criminal cases could be behind the shooting.
'I could be wrong, but the timing and circumstances sound a lot like someone who was waiting outside his office for him,' Weinstock said in an email.
'I suspect this was one who either got out after Steve helped put him away or someone whose case he was working on who felt threatened about what Steve could do,' he added.

Weinstock added that he and Pitt had previously discussed the risks they face in their professions.
Despite the potential for danger, Pitt had not filed any protective orders as per Maricopa County Superior Court records, according to AZCentral.

Pitt worked as a Clinical Associate Professor of Psychiatry at the University of Arizona College of Medicine in Phoenix at the time of his death.
'Dr. Pitt was beloved on this campus and went above and beyond mentoring our students and lecturing to our community,' Dean Guy Reed said in a statement in light of Pitt's death.
He gained recognition in his career for his work in forensic psychiatric evaluations and has appeared on a myriad of news shows to talk about his investigative work on his various high profile cases.

Joann Sanchez, the center manager of the complex that houses Pitt's office, says Pitt was a close friend who she called 'The Tin Man' because he had the 'biggest heart ever'.
Bobette Siegel, a licensed clinical social worker who also worked in the building said everyone in the complex knew Pitt.
'It’s such a loss for his professional community, the forensic community, his family … and for me personally, she said.

TIMELINE OF JONBENET'S MURDER

December 26, 1996
JonBenet Ramsey, 6, is found dead in the basement of her family's Boulder home, several hours after her mother called 911 to say the girl was missing and that she had found a ransom note. She suffered a fractured skull and appeared to be strangled
January 1, 1997
Patsy and John Ramsey appear in their first TV interview to protest their innocence
April 30, 1997
The couple participates in formal interviews at the Boulder County Justice Center
May 20, 1997
Mrs Ramsey, who authorities believe could have written the ransom note, gives police a fifth handwriting sample
Summer 1997
The Ramseys move from Colorado to Atlanta
March 12, 1998
Boulder police ask the DA to take the case to a grand jury
June, 1998
Boulder police present the results of their investigation to Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter's prosecuting team and outside advisers; the Ramseys are interviewed separately over three days by investigators
August 12, 1998
Authorities say the Ramsey case will go to a grand jury and the following month, it begins
October 13, 1999
The grand jury disbands and the DA announces there is not enough evidence to file charges against the couple
March 29, 2001
The Ramseys file an $80 million libel and defamation lawsuit against officers at the Boulder Police Department, who later agree to an undisclosed settlement in the case
March 31, 2003
A federal judge says evidence is 'more consistent with a theory that an intruder murdered JonBenet than it was with a theory that Mrs. Ramsey did'
December 2003
New DA confirms that DNA from a spot of blood from JonBenet's underwear has been entered into the FBI's national database - but that it's not from her family
June 24, 2006
Patsy Ramsey dies in Roswell, Georgia, at age 49, from ovarian cancer
August 16, 2006
John Mark Karr, a 41-year-old American school teacher who confessed to the crime, is arrested in Bangkok, Thailand - but his DNA does not match that found on the body
July 9, 2008
DA makes public a letter she has written to John Ramsey explaining that new DNA tests have convinced her that no member of the Ramsey family should remain under any suspicion
September 2010
Reports surface that police seek to re-interview JonBenet's brother Burke, who was nine at the time of her death, as they continue to investigate the killing
July 21, 2011
John Ramsey remarries to Jan Rousseaux, 53, a designer
June 14, 2012
James Kolar, who worked as an investigator in the DA's Office, writes in a new book that the Ramsey family 'may have been involved at least as an accessory after the fact'
October 23, 2013
Judge rules that the court will release grand jury indictment about the Ramseys
October 25, 2013
Indictment is released, revealing that in 1999 it accused the Ramseys of two counts each of child abuse resulting in death in connection to the first-degree murder of JonBenet

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/high-profile-forensic-psychiatrist-who-raised-suspicions-about-jonbenet-ramseys-family-during-her-murder-investigation-is-shot-dead-outside-his-office/ar-AAy88ii?ocid=iehp

by pbslady 29.06.18 7:31

JonBenet was the 6 year old girl who died on Boxing Day and it seems family did it with amateur attempt at cover up, silly ransom note...
Parents blocked police investigations...

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Topic merged and video added. Mod

by **Jill Havern** 10.01.19 21:31

EXCLUSIVE: 'I killed JonBenét Ramsey!’ Convicted pedophile Gary Oliva has confessed to the murder of six-year-old pageant princess in prison letters to his friend – claiming it was 'an accident'

Gary Oliva, 54, has long been a suspect in the murder of JonBenét Ramsey, whose body was found at her home in Boulder, Colorado on December 26, 1996
In letters to high school classmate Michael Vail obtained by DailyMailTV, Oliva claims he killed JonBenét by accident
'I let her slip and her head bashed in half and I watched her die. It was an accident,' he wrote from Limon Correctional Facility, Colorado
Oliva is serving a 10-year-sentence for possessing child pornography
When Oliva was arrested in 2016, police discovered he had 335 photos of JonBenét including photos from the six-year-old's autopsy
Vail, 55, of Ventura, California, has urged police to charge Oliva for JonBenét's death since Oliva is due for parole in 2020
Chillingly, Vail tells DailyMailTV that on December 26, 1996 Oliva told him: 'I hurt a little girl'
Investigators believe several men were involved in JonBenét's death and Vail hopes Oliva will identify them
The incriminating letters have been presented to Boulder police and murder case investigators are now looking through the new information

A longtime suspect in the murder of JonBenét Ramsey has finally admitted he killed the then six-year old beauty pageant queen, DailyMailTV can exclusively reveal.
Gary Oliva, 54, a convicted pedophile who is currently serving a 10-year sentence in a Colorado prison for child pornography, has admitted in letters obtained by DailyMailTV he killed her by accident.
Oliva, who was once jailed for trying to strangle his mother, wrote: 'I never loved anyone like I did JonBenét and yet I let her slip and her head bashed in half and I watched her die. It was an accident. Please believe me. She was not like the other kids.'
In another letter, Oliva wrote, 'JonBenét completely changed me and removed all evil from me. Just one look at her beautiful face, her glowing beautiful skin, and her divine God-body, I realized I was wrong to kill other kids. Yet by accident she died and it was my fault.'
The letters were sent to music publicist Michael Vail, a former high school classmate of Oliva's.
Vail has suspected Oliva's involvement in JonBenét's murder for 22 years but told DailyMailTV he thinks Oliva's written confession is the proof needed to finally get Oliva charged with the crime.
The incriminating letters from Oliva have now been presented to Boulder police.
Police spokesperson Laurie Ogden told DailyMailTV, 'The Boulder Police Department is aware of and has investigated Mr. Olivas’ potential involvement in this case.
'We have passed the additional information you provided onto investigators. We will not comment on any actions or the status of this investigation.'

More here:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6555009/Pedophile-Gary-Oliva-confesses-killing-JonBen-t-Ramsey-accident.html

by Guest 11.01.19 11:54

I don't think so.

by **Jill Havern** 23.04.21 21:23

This is due to be broadcast on Sunday April 25th

Profiling with Pat Brown
920 subscribers

This is one of the strangest murders I have ever encountered. So many strange elements and theories. Today I will analyze the crime and reveal a new clue never before brought to light. Does it hold the key to who killed JonBenet? And will you join me on a mission to find the information that could prove this clue to be the missing piece?

by **Jill Havern** 25.04.21 19:59

This ^^^ is about to start in a mo.

by doctorzodiac 16.05.21 1:18

I think Burke killed JonBenet and John helped cover it up with the garotte (using JAR's rope),...etc.... I think both were playing with model trains earlier on in the day. JonBenet had train track marks on her body indicative to being prodded.

The ransom note had a lot of John's information on it. Patsy wrote the ransom note with John's instructions. I don't see how anyone other than John and Patsy would have seen his bonus check stubs.

I think Burke has had a lot of therapy to move on and live a more stable life. I believe he was sexually abusing his sister with objects and his own fingers. His demeanour in interviews where he seems a bit ''detached'' makes me believe he has Aspergers syndrome. He supposedly used to smear faeces over JonBenet and her toys which is considered to be partially linked to autism.

The intruder theory with potential suspects should be ruled out imo. Helgoth's hi-tec boots were actually Burke's boots which were made for women and children. Helgoth's DNA was ruled out and his M.O didn't fit the bill (he had no criminal record). Santa was ruled out from lack of DNA (no fiber hairs) and an alibi. JAR was ruled out with an alibi.

John Kenady had a long criminal record and was seemingly dangerous but no evidence suggests he was the intruder just a person obsessed with the case and Micheal Helgoth's life. Kenady broke into Helgoth's property to try and find the ''hi-tec'' boots, cheques, art and the stun gun which at the time was thought to have been used. Kenady said Helgoth told him he wanted to ''break a human skull'' and told the police he thought his colleague was the intruder.

Chris Wolf was another suspect who was ruled out by dna. He apparently wore a shirt with ''SBTC'' on it and harboured a grudge against John Ramsey and Access Graphics. Chris Wolf said he had no knowledge of the Ramseys but he did write a report on on the company a year prior to the murder.

John Ramsey supposedly had a ''plaque'' which had ''Subic Bay'' written on it.

In the Bonitas report it said the plaque actually had ''S.B.T.C'' which was theorized to stand for ''Subic Bay Training Center'' but was proven untrue.

I don't buy into the idea of a ''pedophile ring'' with Ghislaine Maxwell being involved because of a dubious picture which doesn't prove it's her. It's all conspiracy theory weirdness and nonsense. The other reason for a potential Maxwell link was the Ramsey's used the same law firm as Maxwell because they were one of the best in the country.

The latest DNA evidence they're trying to pursue is from a Camel Cigarette they assume is from a Ramsey neighbour the investigators ''staked'' out. I think they're going on a hunch that someone was ''stalking'' the Ramsey property leading up to the night of her death because of the cigarette butts they found in one of neighbour's gardens.

by Guest 17.05.21 7:42

I also think it was Burke and the parents covered it up.

The official story is just nonsense.

by Milo 21.05.21 19:29

Many posters in this thread have speculated about why the perpetrator(s) murdered JonBenet. I found it helpful to start at the end with the Grand Jury's decision in 2013 and then try to retrofit my views to the words in the indictment. Remember she died in 1996, the Grand Jury was summoned in 1998, but the indictment was sealed until 2013. That is a long time for facts to be forgotten, myths to arise, memories to fade, Patsy to die, and MSM to bastardise the story. (Just like the present story about another Patsy - the German guy who is the new patsy (spelling?) or fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case!)

Now we are better informed than in the years after the "perfect murder, perfect town" (name of one of the first books about the case) and therefore can forget about the intruder, the poor guy across the road who dressed up as Santa, the guy that Mary Lacy (DA but not the one who established the Grand Jury), the guy from Thailand who wasn 't even in the US when JBR was murdered and whom the Lacy flew home to Boulder, all the pedophiles in a the world, John's best friend (Fleet), the housekeeper, John's pilot, John's son (John Andrew) etc. etc.

Mary Lacy made a complete fool of herself, writing to the Ramsey's a sickly sweet friendly letter to the Ramseys, exonerating them based on her complete lack of understanding of DNA. It was not her job to do the exoneration even if it was needed, and the Governor was surprised and appalled. Lacy also said she saw butt marks on the carpet outside JBR's room - the intruder presumably in waiting. But that is another story.

It is very interesting that there has not been leakage from the Grand Jury (apart from one instance). Also the people of Boulder - at least those would lived there at the time of the murder - seem to know what happened and are able to accept it.

JonBenet Ramsey, death 1996, Boulder Colorado

Grand Jury summoned, 1998, by District Attorney (under pressure)

John and Patsy individually represented by separate teams of lawyers

Grand Jury decision, unsealed, 2013, under FOI

The Ramseys, unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly and feloniously did permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenet Ramsey, a child under the age of sixteen.

Indictment

John Ramsey did unlawfully, knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death.

Patsy Ramsey did unlawfully, knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death.

John and Patsy individually accused because it was unclear which of them killed JonBenet

The singular ("a" person) implies that one person did it as opposed to the group mentioned in the ransom note or any other group or pair. The word "knowingly" implies that the Ramseys were aware of the identity of the person who killed JonBenet.
The Grand Jury believed the Ramseys covered for each other or potentially Burke.
There are many scenarios that are not inconsistent with the indictment.
I have made up a list but I deleted the preview (stupid). Here's a summary. No explanations of how and why in this post.

The DA personally dismissed the Grand Jury's indictment on the basis of insufficient evidence (can you believe it). Reasons that have been suggested include one where he was scared of not winning the case against the powerful Ramseys, especially so because he didn't get much experience, his office being renowned for doing plea bargains. Another reason was the political climate in Boulder.

The list below is in no particular order such as most popular to least.

John did it, Patsy did not know at the time
John did it, Patsy covered up

John did it, Patsy covered up, but Patsy tried to sabotage John

Patsy did it, John did not know at the time
Patsy did it, John covered up
Patsy did it, John covered up, but John tried to sabotage Patsy

Patsy coerced John to assist him - as in she had something over him
John coerced Patsy to assist her - as in he had something over her

Burke did it, John covered up, Patsy oblivious at the time
Burke did it, Patsy covered up, John oblivious at the time

Burke did it, John and Patsy covered up
Burke's friend, Douglas, did it, Patsy and/or John covered up for Doug
Burke and Douglas did it, Patsy and/or John covered up but ...
there was no more than one person covered up according to the Grand Jury's indictment (see singular above), so it can't be that Burke and Doug did it together.

In the meantime we await the results of a new-fangled DNA testing in the US that was promised at least 18 months ago. DNA would seem to be the only path to solving this case, apart from a death bed confession. Interesting story about a dreadful multiple murder case in Sydney that was solved in that place the US (I forget the name of it). I think the guy who runs that also offered himself (lab and tests) to the McCanns, who didn't respond. Funny that.

Good night. Sorry about the typo or ten.

by Liz Eagles 21.05.21 21:53

New Scotland Yard is well aware of every DNA resource available worldwide.

What is not apparent is the will of NSY to investigate without fear or favour the case of a 3 year old British subject who deserves their best efforts with no excuses.

by kaz 06.06.21 11:14

Interesting take on this from Miles Mathis.

http://mileswmathis.com/jonbenet.pdf

by Guest 06.06.21 11:59

kaz wrote:Interesting take on this from Miles Mathis.

http://mileswmathis.com/jonbenet.pdf

The death was faked?

Nah.

by Guest 06.06.21 13:06

^^ From the Miles Mathis's paper linked above, we read:

Miles Mathis wrote:You will remind me that John Ramsey allegedly found JonBenet himself. And we assume the police and coroner confirmed that. Except that. . . we know the CIA can very easily control both the local police and the coroner. So we actually have no proof JonBenet or anyone else was ever found dead. None of the corpse photos are convincing at all, and as usual looked faked. Most are close-ups of the neck, but that could be the neck of any young corpse, borrowed from the morgue. They prove nothing.

[shows graphic picture of JonBenet's dead body]

That's so fake it requires no comment. If it were real, they wouldn't be publishing it. But none of the edges make any sense, especially along the profile, so we know it is manufactured and manipulated.

by **Jill Havern** 22.12.21 7:25

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10333673/Detectives-explore-genetic-DNA-testing-25-year-cold-case-slain-child-beauty-queen.html

Who killed JonBenet Ramsay? - Page 8 Mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2F1s%2F2021%2F12%2F21%2F21%2F52078699-0-image-a-42_1640121468937

Detectives explore 'genetic DNA testing' in 25-year cold case of slain child beauty queen | Daily Mail Online
Detectives working on cracking the murder of JonBenet Ramsay are now exploring genetic DNA testing as they continue to hunt for the killer in the infamous 25-year-old cold case. Six-year-old ...
www.dailymail.co.uk

by **Jill Havern** 26.08.24 8:17

4 hours ago

JONBENET RAMSEY "It's December 26th, the Day After Christmas, that's when this occurred, right?"

by **Bluebagthepirate** 26.08.24 8:24

I think it was Burke and they covered it up.

The ransom note was ridiculous.

by Amy Dean 26.08.24 11:29

I agree that Burke is the most likely culprit.

He was a month away from turning 10, the age of criminal responsibilty in Colorado, so he couldn't have been charged but he would presumably have been taken into care, hence the cover-up.

by **Ladyinred** 26.08.24 12:37

I don't know much about this case. I assume Burke is the brother?

If he killed his sister, that is horrific; why would he kill her?

by Amy Dean 26.08.24 12:47

Yes. It's believed that he hit her in a fit of rage; he didn't deliberately kill her.

by **Jill Havern** 26.08.24 12:50

But wasn't she sexually abused? Was that accidental too?

by Amy Dean 26.08.24 12:55

Reports differ as to whether she was or wasn't.

by **Jill Havern** 26.08.24 12:57

Amy Dean wrote:Yes. It's believed that he hit her in a fit of rage; he didn't deliberately kill her.

Wasn't she garotted? Was that accidental?

by Amy Dean 26.08.24 13:01

I need to refresh my memory on this. Don't panic over the name Dr McCann!

https://jonbenetramsey.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Sexual_Assault

by **Ladyinred** 26.08.24 13:02

Amy Dean wrote:Yes. It's believed that he hit her in a fit of rage; he didn't deliberately kill her.

He must have been a seriously damaged child to have killed his sister.

I also recall that JonBenet was reported to have been abused.

by Cake Lover 26.08.24 13:19

I can't remember much about this case, but I formed the impression that Burke played second fiddle to his sister, who was the fame by proxy, and money maker, for her ghastly parents.

by Amy Dean 26.08.24 15:13

I'm sorry that Patsy Ramsey died young but she certainly appeared to be a horrible, arrogant person.

Like a certain other female who shall remain nameless, she expected people to fall over themselves for her because of her social status and believe every word she said.

by **AnneCGuedes** 26.08.24 16:16

Whoever knocked her (her brother because she had eaten his pineapple or her mum because her pyjamas were again wet) didn't kill her, she looked dead but was in a coma. The strangulation (likely by the mother) caused her death.

by Amy Dean 26.08.24 18:16

I doubt we will ever know the truth of this now.

The ransom note written with a pen and on paper which were in the house is to me the most obvious clue that the killer was not a stranger.

by **AnneCGuedes** 26.08.24 18:36

The autopsy revealed that the deep skull fracture (not a crack) was prior to the strangulation. I hardly see the young boy make a garrot around his sister's neck.