Who killed JonBenet Ramsay?

 We have a Jonbenet thread ??

Oooh I didn't know this was here.

I've been following this case for sometime and believe me it's as corrupt & twisted as it gets.

Yes it's unbelievable just how much the McCann case echoes it.

The truth is also well & truly protected behind a high powered legal firm.

I've just quickly read the posts on this page & in all honesty the only point which is actually true is regarding the Ransom Note.

Yes it was written on Patsy's own pad using her own pen, both had been put back where they were usually kept.

John was ruled out by handwriting analysis.

Anyone interested in getting a clear truthful insight then this book is must.

An Angel Betrayed ~

How Wealth, Power and Corruption Destroyed the JonBenet Ramsey Murder Investigation.

It covers the entire disgraceful mess to date, explaining with simple facts.

The author is just a guy like many here, who's followed this case from day 1 and is a regular poster on Websleuths.

I particularly found his telling of what went on between DA's Office, Boulder P.D. & the Legal teams involved, covered in plain, simple english really helps understand what went on.

Another horrific case involving an innocent little girl who desperately deserves Justice.

It's also a really great read.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1618977083/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1402520910&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX110_SY165

Similar to McCann Files here is where you can find Everything & Anything in connection with the case.
And I mean Anything, just the indexing alone is mind blowing 

A Candy Rose

http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenetindex.htm

Here's link directly to Ransom Note

http://www.acandyrose.com/12251996ransomnote.htm

In a nutshell.

Patsy did it. In a fit of RAGE. IMO

Coincidentally KATE did something very SIMILAR. IMO

I thought all the Ramsey family had been ruled out now because of DNA testing.  Does this mean there is still unidentified DNA that was under JBR`s fingernails?

fossey wrote:In a nutshell.

Patsy did it. In a fit of RAGE.

You've just saved me a tenner.

notlongnow wrote:

fossey wrote:In a nutshell.

Patsy did it. In a fit of RAGE.

You've just saved me a tenner.

How come...

Did you bet on it...

fossey wrote:

notlongnow wrote:

fossey wrote:In a nutshell.

Patsy did it. In a fit of RAGE.

You've just saved me a tenner.

How come...

Did you bet on it...

No the book on the link ABOVE. 

notlongnow wrote:

fossey wrote:

notlongnow wrote:

fossey wrote:In a nutshell.

Patsy did it. In a fit of RAGE.

You've just saved me a tenner.

How come...

Did you bet on it...

No the book on the link ABOVE. 

I see. Not seen. Using my phone and can't open it. Will look tomorrow.

Woofer wrote:I thought all the Ramsey family had been ruled out now because of DNA testing.  Does this mean there is still unidentified DNA that was under JBR`s fingernails?

  Ooh! I know you're just trying to wind me up.

notlongnow wrote:

fossey wrote:

notlongnow wrote:

fossey wrote:In a nutshell.

Patsy did it. In a fit of RAGE.

You've just saved me a tenner.

How come...

Did you bet on it...

No the book on the link ABOVE. 

That particular book isn't about who committed the actual murder.
The author does give a scenario of his own speculation
It's about the corruption, internal battle of Boulder PD & a D.A.'s office which have blatantly lied, not carried out their legal duties, aasisted the defense.
Basically allowing a murderer to walk free and most disturbing of  all
By betraying a 6 year old girl of the justice she deserves .

From Wiki. Although i'm sure lots could be elaborated on.

It was announced on January 27, 2013, that a grand jury found sufficient evidence to indict the parents in 1999 on charges of child abuse resulting in death, but the District Attorney refused to sign the indictment, leaving the impression that the grand jury investigation was inconclusive.^[41]
In September 2013, Daily Camera reporter Charlie Brennan and the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press filed a lawsuit to press DA Stan Garnett to release the indictment.^[42] In mid-October, the judge ruled that the DA must show why the indictment should remain sealed.^[43] The Denver Post (a sister paper of the Daily Camera) published an editorial calling for the indictment to be unsealed.^[44] On October 25, 2013, court documents sealed in 1999 were released that revealed a 1999 grand jury had indicted John and Patsy Ramsey for child abuse resulting in death and being an accessory to a crime, including murder. The papers allege both parents intended to prevent or delay the arrest of the alleged killer. However, the indictments released did not say who killed JonBenet.^[45] Boulder County DA Stan Garnett offered his perspective in a Boulder newspaper editorial.^[46]

notlongnow wrote:

fossey wrote:In a nutshell.

Patsy did it. In a fit of RAGE.

You've just saved me a tenner.

Hmmm ???

You might want to give this a read if you truly want to know.

Written by ex-Chief Investigator, in-depth, graphic & has the disturbing details discovered during investigation.

Probably far too much for someone who doesn't know the case in quite a bit of detail.

Which judging from the posts I mentioned, is the case for many here.

Therefore I wouldn't recommend it for anyone wanting a general overview of the case.

Or hasn't a strong stomach.

Not an easy read but an excellent book.

Bit more than a tenner thou.


"So you think you know the JonBenet Ramsey case? Think again. Partner with front-line investigator James Kolar, and walk through the crime scene. Discover evidence and facts previously unknown and hang on as this unpredictable, stomach churning investigation, unfolds kaleidoscopically. This masterfully told, gripping saga is a hell of a ride, and a must read for true crime aficionados and anyone else who thinks that they know this case."

- Gregg McCrary, FBI Profiler (retired)

fossey wrote:From Wiki. Although i'm sure lots could be elaborated on.

It was announced on January 27, 2013, that a grand jury found sufficient evidence to indict the parents in 1999 on charges of child abuse resulting in death, but the District Attorney refused to sign the indictment, leaving the impression that the grand jury investigation was inconclusive.^[41]
In September 2013, Daily Camera reporter Charlie Brennan and the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press filed a lawsuit to press DA Stan Garnett to release the indictment.^[42] In mid-October, the judge ruled that the DA must show why the indictment should remain sealed.^[43] The Denver Post (a sister paper of the Daily Camera) published an editorial calling for the indictment to be unsealed.^[44] On October 25, 2013, court documents sealed in 1999 were released that revealed a 1999 grand jury had indicted John and Patsy Ramsey for child abuse resulting in death and being an accessory to a crime, including murder. The papers allege both parents intended to prevent or delay the arrest of the alleged killer. However, the indictments released did not say who killed JonBenet.^[45] Boulder County DA Stan Garnett offered his perspective in a Boulder newspaper editorial.^[46]

Here's the Grand Jury True Bills

Patsy

www.courts.state.co.us/Media/Opinion_Docs/PRamsey%20Grand%20Jury.pdf

John

www.courts.state.co.us/Media/Opinion_Docs/JRamsey%20Grand%20Jury.pdf

They're both worded exactly the same other than names.

Professor Marvel wrote:

Woofer wrote:I thought all the Ramsey family had been ruled out now because of DNA testing.  Does this mean there is still unidentified DNA that was under JBR`s fingernails?

  Ooh! I know you're just trying to wind me up.

I`m not Professor Marvel. I obviously haven`t kept pace with all the latest details, but did read somewhere that they had been ruled out - please explain if that`s wrong.

Woofer wrote:

Professor Marvel wrote:

Woofer wrote:I thought all the Ramsey family had been ruled out now because of DNA testing.  Does this mean there is still unidentified DNA that was under JBR`s fingernails?

  Ooh! I know you're just trying to wind me up.

I`m not Professor Marvel. I obviously haven`t kept pace with all the latest details, but did read somewhere that they had been ruled out - please explain if that`s wrong.

Hi !
I've found a couple of articles which explain far better than I can.

Basically she showed a complete lack of understand DNA.

She made a number of dubious decisions which left many people questioning her motives.

Again in light of her knowledge of the Grand Jury True Bills even more so.

These two articles give a bit of insight including the DNA issues.

'New Clues in JonBenet Ramsey Murder' - The Daily Beast

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/18/new-clues-in-jonbenet-ramsey-murder.html

Someone mentioned the video (re. the window) from a few years back.
The above article has the original footage taken by police of crime scene that hadn't been seen before (2012)
Which when focusing on window clearly shows a fully intact spider web.


'Jeffrey Scott Shapiro: DA Wrong to Clear Ramseys'

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/07/11/jeffrey-scott-shapiro-da-wrong-to-clear-ramseys/

Hope these help explain a bit.

Thank you Professor Marvel.

Yes, the last time I took an interest was when that Lacy woman forgave the Ramseys (which I see now she should not have done.

I always thought it was the brother.

I`ll try and keep up this time.

JonBenet's brother was 9 at the time.

In my view, adults were responsible for what happened to her.

So, what's the verdict ?

Were her parents involved or not in her death ?

Well, all we can do is give our own opinion on that.

The mystery for me is that, whoever was responsible, why was the poor child's body left in the house? Why write out a ransom note and not take the child to show that you mean business?

Yes I think the parents are responsible - why they killed their daughter I don't know - but I don't suppose we will ever know for sure.

I stumbled upon an interesting parallel to the Lindbergh Baby, who was something of a template for all these sorts of things.

From the JBR 'ransom note':
"You will withdraw $118,000.00 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills."

From the Lindbergh kidnapping note:
"Have 50.000$ redy 25 000$ in 20$ bills 15000$ in 10$ bills and 10000$ in 5$ bills"


Why this obsession with the types of bills? Interesting to consider inflation and the use of different currency denominations.  It's a wonder Madeleine's 'abductor' didn't ask for a similar breakdown of payments.

Varriott wrote:I stumbled upon an interesting parallel to the Lindbergh Baby, who was something of a template for all these sorts of things.

From the JBR 'ransom note':
"You will withdraw $118,000.00 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills."

From the Lindbergh kidnapping note:
"Have 50.000$ redy 25 000$ in 20$ bills 15000$ in 10$ bills and 10000$ in 5$ bills"


Why this obsession with the types of bills? Interesting to consider inflation and the use of different currency denominations.  It's a wonder Madeleine's 'abductor' didn't ask for a similar breakdown of payments.

I suppose a lot of people don't use cash for transactions anymore.

Fortunately, the webmasters at the official Find Madeleine site have helpfully provided easy-click donation buttons.

In handy amounts of GBP 1, 5, 10, 20, 49.99 and 99.89.

My opinion:

There was no evidence of a break in or attempted abduction. Someone at the house committed the murder.

There was a ransom letter which was written with pen an paper from the house. Why would someone leave a ransom letter AND a body? it makes no sense to me. I think the letter was written to give the killer time to get the body out of the house before the other members of the family could react. We would have a missing child case.

Patsy called the police immediately upon finding the letter. This act makes me think that Patsy had nothing to do with JonBenet's death. Why would she write the letter AND call the police? Even if she knew what had happened, why call the police?

If their son had done something that killed JonBenet, why not admit the truth immediately? He was 9 at the time. Also, wouldn't Patsy have known their son did it? So, again, why would she call the police before they had a chance to move the body?

I think it's a straight forward case of a child being murdered by a parent. Unfortunately, the parents were given special handling and the investigation was botched...sound familiar?

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/patsy-ramsey-interview-analyzed.html

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/patsy-ramsey-police-interview-part-one.html

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/the-ramsey-interview-on-cnn.html

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/det-steve-thomas-and-ramseys.html

There are also lots of information on cases that are currently active such as the Cooper Harris dying in a hot car, still missing people as well as older cold cases such as Hailey Dunn, David Hartley and many others as well as educational topics and tutorials

Newt Fink-Nottle wrote:My opinion:

There was no evidence of a break in or attempted abduction. Someone at the house committed the murder.

There was a ransom letter which was written with pen an paper from the house. Why would someone leave a ransom letter AND a body? it makes no sense to me. I think the letter was written to give the killer time to get the body out of the house before the other members of the family could react. We would have a missing child case.

Patsy called the police immediately upon finding the letter. This act makes me think that Patsy had nothing to do with JonBenet's death. Why would she write the letter AND call the police? Even if she knew what had happened, why call the police?

If their son had done something that killed JonBenet, why not admit the truth immediately? He was 9 at the time. Also, wouldn't Patsy have known their son did it? So, again, why would she call the police before they had a chance to move the body?

I think it's a straight forward case of a child being murdered by a parent. Unfortunately, the parents were given special handling and the investigation was botched...sound familiar?

Welcome Spink-Bottle! (Aunt Dahlia's version) .   

I can see Patsy calling the police, having prepared the scene as it were. Even though it makes no sense to most people.
At the time of calling the police it was officially a matter of a missing girl and a ransom note.
How they thought to explain  the body is beyond me. Perhaps they did not think the house would be searched, something went wrong and the body had to be left in the house when the plan was to move it.
Wasn't it the case that it snowed?  Might that have been a problem?

They exploited the poor little girl and  she'd been abused as well, in short they treated her as a piece of property rather than a child.

Lovely name Newt Fink-Nottle!   

As regards the note, it wasn't proved conclusively that Patsy wrote it but the writing did resemble hers.

To me, there's no doubt that she and her husband were involved but there are baffling elements to the case such as already mentioned why the body was not removed from the house.

Hi !

About Patsys 911 call,

The reason I think Patsy called when she did was they had to be at the airport at a certain time.
They were due to meet up with John's older kids then fly on to the other home, which had all been pre-decorated ready for a second 'Christmas' with all the kids together.

They had the plane & pilot waiting so they HAD to have been up & about.
Everyone knew of their plans so they couldn't have suddenly changed them without suspicion.
I think even calling when she did they were cutting it very close.

Woofer wrote:Thank you Professor Marvel.

Yes, the last time I took an interest was when that Lacy woman forgave the Ramseys (which I see now she should not have done.

*I always thought it was the brother.*

I`ll try and keep up this time.

JonBenet Ramsey Case: James Kolar, Former Leading Investigator Rejects Intruder Theory In New Book

(this was from 2012)

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1687905


The former detective had access to 60,000 pages of evidence, including crime-scene video and photos, interviews with individuals related to the case and forensic reports.

Among the contradicting evidence Kolar points out in his book are fully intact cobwebs stretching over the window the intruder allegedly entered, more DNA evidence found at the crime scene including DNA on the garrote cord used to strangle the young girl.

In his book, *Kolar also writes about a child's toy that was found that may have been responsible for some of the abrasions on JonBenet's body, rather than a stun gun* which had been considered a possible source of the injuries to her back,

"By the time I parted company with the D.A.'s office, I was convinced that there was no significant possibility that an intruder had been involved in the death of JonBenet," Kolar writes in his book.


*Loads of previously unknown info. in Kolars book which gives new insight into what was going on in that household.


I must point out that Kolar doesn't actually state WHO killed Jonbenet !

No one will ever be convicted of Jon Benet Ramsey's murder, says lead detective as he admits cops made a string of 'big mistakes'
 
•   Mark Beckner, the former chief of the Boulder Police Department, took part in an 'Ask Me Anything' session on Reddit on Saturday
•   He has since said he didn't know he was speaking on a public forum but had tried to be honest; the current police chief has not taken issue with it
•   Beckner, 59, joined the Ramsey case nine months after she was found killed in her parents' basement alongside a ransom note in 1996
•   He said the case was mishandled because of a lack of staff over Christmas; he added that the parents should have been interviewed immediately
•   He also described the peculiarities of the case, such as how the murder was staged as a kidnapping, and how the DA made their job even harder
•    
By LYDIA WARREN FOR DAILYMAIL.COM and ASSOCIATED PRESS
PUBLISHED: 22:21, 25 February 2015 | UPDATED: 02:06, 26 February 2015
 
The former Colorado police chief who led the investigation into the murder of six-year-old beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey has admitted that officers botched the initial handling of the crime scene.
Mark Beckner, former chief of the Boulder Police Department, gave his most extensive comments on the case to date in an 'Ask Me Anything' session on Reddit on Saturday. But he has since said that he had no idea he was speaking on a public forum, and that he regretted his 'naivete'.
'I talked to the organizer, and my impression was that this was a members-only type group that talked about unsolved mysteries all around the world,' Beckner, 59, told the Daily Camera.
Ramsey was found dead in the basement of her family's home on December 26, 1996, hours after her mother, Patsy Ramsey, called 911 to say her daughter was missing and a ransom note demanding $118,000 had been found.
 
Although no one has ever been charged, suspicion has long fallen on her parents, Patsy and John, but there was not enough evidence to bring charges against them and they were ultimately cleared.
 
On the Reddit forum, Beckner, who joined the investigation nine months after JonBenet's death, said on the day JonBenet's body was found, police should have separated the couple to get full statements from them.
The case was initially mishandled due to a 'perfect storm type scenario', he wrote.
'It was the Christmas holiday and we were short staffed, we faced a situation as I said earlier that no one in the country had ever seen before or since, and there was confusion at the scene as people were arriving before we had enough personnel on the scene,' he wrote online. 
'I wish we would have done a much better job of securing and controlling the crime scene on day one. We also should have separated John and Patsy and gotten full statements from them that day. 
'Letting them go was a big mistake, as they soon lawyered up and we did not get to formally interview them again until May of 1997, five months after their daughter was murdered.' 
 
No one has ever been prosecuted in the case, and Ramsey said he doubt anyone ever would be. 
'[I] do not believe anyone will ever be convicted in the Ramsey case,' he told Reddit users.
Court documents released in 2013 showed that a grand jury recommended indictments against the Ramseys, contrary to the long-held perception that the secret panel ended their work in 1999 without deciding to charge anyone. 
The documents revealed that the parents had been indicted for felony child abuse resulting in death and accessory to the crimes of first-degree murder and child abuse resulting in death - but that then-District Attorney Alex Hunter had refused to sign the indictments.
At the time, Hunter didn't mention an indictment, saying only that there wasn't enough evidence to warrant charges against the Ramseys, who had long maintained their innocence. 
On the forum, Beckner touched upon the trouble his department had experienced with the Boulder District Attorney's office under Hunter.
'DA involvement in this case was inappropriate,' he said. 'They interfered in the investigation by being roadblocks to getting things done.'
Patsy passed away from cancer in 2006, and two years later, former District Attorney Mary Lacy cleared the Ramseys of any role in their daughter's death, based on DNA evidence that pointed to the involvement of a third party.
Beckner would not say who he believed might be responsible for the killing - 'there are several viable theories' - but he did say that investigators did not believe there was a 'legitimate point of entry' for an intruder to get into the house that night.
He said that the girl was hit hard across the head and then, after it was clear that she had not died, she was strangled between 45 minutes and two hours later, based on her brain swelling.
'The rest of the scene we believe was staged, including the vaginal trauma, to make it look like a kidnapping/assault gone bad,' he said. 
 
He added that they came across evidence that would indicate the girl had suffered prior sexual abuse.
After an apparent sexual abuse the night of the murder, the killer then dressed her - which caused one Redditor to note: 'I guess there wasn't a time problem for the killer'.
Beckner added: 'The killer also took the time to find a pad and sharpie pen, write a 2.5 page ransom note, fashion a garrote and choke her with it, then wrap her in a blanket with one of her favorite nightgowns and place her in a storage room in the basement. He/she/they then neatly put the pad and pen away and escaped without leaving much evidence.' 
He added that the FBI told the police they had never known of a 2.5-page note and had never had a case where the body was found in the same place as the ransom note.
When police turned up at the home, they found Mrs Ramsey's tone with them 'very strange'.
'The officers also noticed the how distant John and Patsy seemed to be toward each other,' he said.
Beckner, who was named police chief of Boulder in 1998 before retiring in April last year, is now teaching several law enforcement classes online through Norwich University in Vermont, and said he would consider writing an autobiography about his career. 
 
Despite his misgivings about speaking out on Reddit, he said he believed he had spoken honestly and fairly to readers, the Daily Camera reported.
'I think the only thing I would emphasize is that the unknown DNA (from JonBenet's clothing) is very important,' he told the newspaper. 'And I'm not involved any more, but that has got to be the focus of the investigation. In my opinion, at this point, that's your suspect.'
Current Boulder police Chief Greg Testa told the Daily Camera that he did not know Beckner was going to discuss the case online.
'I learned about it by seeing it posted online,' Testa said. 'I didn't read it line for line, but Mark understands the nature of that investigation, and certainly wouldn't do anything to compromise it.'
He added that the investigation remains open and whenever they receive new tips in the case, they are investigated.
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2969242/Detective-Jon-Benet-Ramsay-s-murder-completes-Reddit-AMA.html

Not sure if this has been posted before but it is very interesting.

This came up last year:



This came up last year. It says she was alive for at least 45 minutes after being struck in the head, then strangled. Time enough for whoever did it to run upstairs and decide what to do. The former Chief also believes that evidence of sexual assault was 'staged'.

From The Mail.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3538060/JonBenet-Ramsey-s-REAL-murderer-26-year-old-son-junkyard-owner-killed-death-claims-investigator-hired-child-beauty-queen-s-parents.html