Re: Mikaeel Kular

by Newintown 18.01.14 16:06

Hongkong Phooey wrote:
confusion wrote:It was a silly place to hide him if that was the case though! Why hide/dump the body behind a family members house? 30 miles away too? Its obvious the police would find him. The mother can't claim he walked there? I just don't get it. Unless someone is trying to set somebody/the sister/the mother up?
What does anybody think on this?

Whilst I would agree on your thoughts something or someone led them there as I don't think they would have got to that specific spot without some guidance. It is possible I suppose that because they actually lived in that house at one point that it would be checked out.

I'm just catching up on the forum but when the news broke late last night it was stated that "from information received it had led them to search the woods". I can't remember if it was Sky News or the BBC News now.

ETA: It did show people searching in the woods as you see on the news today (people in yellow with sticks searching undergrowth) but it didn't show the bungalow or garden as far as I can remember.

by Guest 18.01.14 16:29

skymartinbrunt

@skymartinbrunt

#missing The body of Mikaeel Kular has been removed from woodlands in Kirkcaldy

4:24 PM

Twitter
Gerard Tubb

@TubbSky

Police at scene in Kirkcaldy: "Body of a young male" removed from behind bungalow. Post mortem will be in Edinburgh [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Guest 18.01.14 16:32

Twitter
Gerard Tubb

@TubbSky

Police: No update expected on #MikaeelKular investigation until late tonight

by suzyjohnson 18.01.14 16:33

Newintown, quote regarding the MM fund ''Why would a "fund" for a missing child have to be used for "costs for the wider family?''

You could perhaps understand why a family with a low income might need additional financial assistance to help during a crisis like this but you certainly wouldn't expect a cardiologist and an ex Gp to have to dip into the fund very often would you with their wages / savings?

by tiny 18.01.14 16:41

[*]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] It's believed police have extended their detention of Rosdeep Kular for a second period of 12 hours

by Newintown 18.01.14 16:42

candyfloss wrote:
skymartinbrunt

@skymartinbrunt

#missing The body of Mikaeel Kular has been removed from woodlands in Kirkcaldy

4:24 PM

Twitter
Gerard Tubb

@TubbSky

Police at scene in Kirkcaldy: "Body of a young male" removed from behind bungalow. Post mortem will be in Edinburgh [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

What an horrendous outcome for this poor little boy who did no harm to anyone and who may have been in the middle of a custody battle between two parents, one parent wanting to harm the other parent by getting their revenge on the boy, or he got too difficult to deal with, but either way the poor little thing wasn't asked to be brought into this world as all children aren't but a lot of them have to deal with parents who are unable or do not want to have to deal with them.

As with all murders the judiciary process has to get tough on killings, 5-7 years (supposed to be a life sentence) isn't good enough, 20-30 years would be more appropriate, but we have such weak governments time after time that until it happens to one of their close family nothing will change.

by Guest 18.01.14 16:46

Gerard Tubb

@TubbSky

Post mortem examination to be carried out in Edinburgh understood to be important next step in #MikaeelKular investigation

4:35 PM

Twitter
skymartinbrunt

@skymartinbrunt

#missing It's believed police have extended their detention of Rosdeep Kular for a second period of 12 hours.

by aiyoyo 18.01.14 16:46

tigger wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
jeanmonroe wrote:
bristow wrote:
Woofer wrote:
jeanmonroe wrote:Woofer wrote:
Some Scots pronounce their `l`s like `w`s. Listen to Tony Blair and Gordon Brown say `miwion` instead of `million`.
---------------------------------------------------------------

So where was Sun's (News International) £1.5 `miwion` reward for the 'safe return' of the wee man?

Yep exactly. Obviously middle class blond little white girls attract a higher value. Horrible isn`t it.
The Sun did have a £25.000 reward.

ER yeah, so?

News International (owner of SUN) 'offered' SIXTY (60) times that much for Madeleine's 'safe return'!

OT and just for information, the reward was 2.5 millions altogether.........

Madeleine reward rises to £2.5m

Rewards totalling £2.5m have been offered to anyone who can help with information leading to the safe return of Madeleine McCann.
The News of the World and businessmen including Sir Richard Branson have jointly pledged £1.5m. Scottish tycoon Stephen Winyard has offered £1m.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

What was it again that Philomena said? a selfish greedy person wiil claim it? Something like that.

That would be the selfish greedy person who'd have found little Maddie then?

She rather such a greedy goat does not come forward than have her niece back! laughat

by **Hobs** 18.01.14 16:51

Oh dear, i seem to have upset a few people on jatyk

oh well lalala

by Guest 18.01.14 16:56

I have no proof, it's just a gut feeling, a hunch:

* the little boy died by neglect - either
* an accident whilst nor being supervised or
* not being treated for what seemed a harmless illness.

* the one responsible [the Mum ...] went into denial and/or
* realised her life AND that of her 4 other children would be kind of over, if she'd go to jail
* so after some time [I'm thinking of a couple of days up to some weeks], she has to come up with an explanation why he's not there ...
* WAW, abducted ...

* HOWEVER, and that's what I hope for:
* she wants the boy to have a grave.
* And buries him next to where he was born and lived for a while, and
* WHERE she can go and visit .

* Her story didn't count up, she confessed.
* And he's been found.

All IMO, as usual.
And maybe ... wishful thinking ....

by TheTruthWillOut 18.01.14 16:57

Interesting that the police are doing press conferences late at night. Is it to avoid/delay the press printing speculative reports?

Poor lad though....RIP.

by Hopespringseternal 18.01.14 17:02

I see that, according to the Scotsman newspaper today (the bit on inside pages) that the child's mum was staying with his grandmother during the search in Edinburgh and ,now, Kirkcaldy and that her place is a few streets away from the aunt's house. (Grandmother comforts family as they wait for news is the headline . Page 5 if you can access it online)

by Guest 18.01.14 17:04

Hobs wrote:Oh dear, i seem to have upset a few people on jatyk

oh well

I don't suppose that was too difficult to do. laughat

Oh dear, what a shame, never mind dance

by Guest 18.01.14 17:09

Woofer wrote:
aquila wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Nothing horrible unlike the actual contents of the site.

Just A Thought You Know.
I've just had a look at JATYK.

Now don't get me wrong here but there's one post I wholeheartedly agree with and that's why can't Sky News pronounce Kirkaldy correctly. I'd noticed this happening on BBC News as well this morning.

It's not like they're being asked to speak Gaelic or Welsh or Xhosa (the language with the clicks) for that matter.

I am being pedantic because it's revolting for a newsreader to not be bothered about how to correctly pronounce Kirkaldy.

So here goes...phonetically it's Kurrkawdee.

Some Scots pronounce their `l`s like `w`s. Listen to Tony Blair and Gordon Brown say `miwion` instead of `million`.

Hmm. Remember George Bushes " tewwawists"?

by mysterion 18.01.14 17:13

I think a lot of Scots would be deeply offended at the slightest suggestion that George Bush was Scottish.

by Lance De Boils 18.01.14 17:19

Upsy Daisy wrote:Yes aquila the Edinburgh accent is quite mild, compared with others, however a large percentage of the population also speak Scots, which is almost Scandinavian sounding. Sorry again mods for drifting.

This was a point I made after the Redwood Crimewatch appeal. Wanting to trace men speaking with possibly a Dutch accent. I commented at the time, or rather asked the question; to a non-English speaking person, could a Scottish accent be confused with a Dutch/German/Scandinavian accent?
It seems the answer is yes.

(Sorry, OT, but reading this just reminded me.)

by Newintown 18.01.14 17:19

Châtelaine wrote:I have no proof, it's just a gut feeling, a hunch:

* the little boy died by neglect - either
* an accident whilst nor being supervised or
* not being treated for what seemed a harmless illness.

* the one responsible [the Mum ...] went into denial and/or
* realised her life AND that of her 4 other children would be kind of over, if she'd go to jail
* so after some time [I'm thinking of a couple of days up to some weeks], she has to come up with an explanation why he's not there ...
* WAW, abducted ...

* Her story didn't count up, she confessed.
* And he's been found.

All IMO, as usual.
And maybe ... wishful thinking ....* HOWEVER, and that's what I hope for:
* she wants the boy to have a grave.
* And buries him next to where he was born and lived for a while, and
* WHERE she can go and visit .

If he died of an accident or an illness which went untreated why would his body be dumped 30 miles away from his family's home and why wasn't a paramedic called in the first place if it was an accident or illness.

You say:

* HOWEVER, and that's what I hope for:
* she wants the boy to have a grave.
* And buries him next to where he was born and lived for a while, and
* WHERE she can go and visit .

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

What if the bungalow was sold in a year or two by an unsuspecting family member and the garden was dug up by the next occupants? I don't think anyone who murders a child and buries them is thinking about the child having a grave where he/she was born. It's more likely to get rid of the evidence in the most convenient spot so that person who buried the body in the first place wouldn't be accused of murder/manslaughter.

Why would a mother want to visit a grave of a child they've let die or murdered, it seems unreal to me, the only reason I can think of is to make sure that that site hasn't been disturbed and they can carry on their life as if nothing has happened. Oh dear, after typing that, another case comes to mind .....

by Guest 18.01.14 17:21

Lance De Boils wrote:
Upsy Daisy wrote:Yes aquila the Edinburgh accent is quite mild, compared with others, however a large percentage of the population also speak Scots, which is almost Scandinavian sounding. Sorry again mods for drifting.
This was a point I made after the Redwood Crimewatch appeal. Wanting to trace men speaking with possibly a Dutch accent. I commented at the time, or rather asked the question; to a non-English speaking person, could a Scottish accent be confused with a Dutch/German/Scandinavian accent?
It seems the answer is yes.

(Sorry, OT, but reading this just reminded me.)

Yes, it could, you Sassenach!

Achterwacht, goedenacht, onverwacht, onverdacht, kwart voor acht!

See?

by tiny 18.01.14 17:29

[*][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Police expected to decide by midnight whether to release, charge or formally arrest Mikaeel's mum Rosie who they are questioning

by mysterion 18.01.14 17:34

If a parent deliberately killed a child or let a child die, then yes I don`t see a "correct" burial site being considered. However in the case of an accident I do see it likely as a mark of respect and a place of pilgrimage on anniversaries.

by plebgate 18.01.14 17:38

I might be misunderstanding the situation, but if the mum reported Mikaeel missing in the morning and said she had put him to bed at 9.00pm the night before,
but he had reportedly been placed in woodlands for a few days before she rang and reported the little one missing, how can she be released?

by Newintown 18.01.14 17:40

mysterion wrote:If a parent deliberately killed a child or let a child die, then yes I don`t see a "correct" burial site being considered. However in the case of an accident I do see it likely as a mark of respect and a place of pilgrimage on anniversaries.

But if it was an "accident" why wasn't a medical person called to deal with it.

You can't just go about burying bodies willy nilly because someone may have had an accident, otherwise there may be hundreds of people missing, because they've had an "accident" e.g. "oh well, we buried them at the bottom of Grandpa's garden so we could visit them on Birthdays etc."

by **Hobs** 18.01.14 17:40

Killers (accidental or deliberate) often place the body in a place they are familiar with, where they feel comfortable or safe.

They know the area to some extant and may be familiar with how often it is visited by locals, places that are hard to find or are out of the way where remains may be difficult to find or run across accidentally.

Often bodies are also placed where the killer has the opportunity to retyrn and not stand out , where they can either gloat, relieve the crime ( they often keep a trophy) or they return to further abuse the body.

As is noticed with serial killers they may have a preferred spot which is part of their MO ( remember steve wright and whilst finding one body a chopper found another of his victims nearby)
it is also not unheard of for the killer to move the body with them whem they move house, either in a box or container for a child or up to a freezer and kept with them or placed in storage.

Knowing where the body is means they make it harder for LE to find the remains or them to be found accidentally, it can also be a way of making amends for the crime, or again it can be as a trophy.

In the case of Kiesha Abrahams her mom and stepdad dumped her in the bush and were arrested when they went to wish her a happy birthday at her remains.

This made me wonder if the mccanns jogging up the hill was done for a reason , since it was important enough for them to mention it on their blogs etc.

How better to keep an eye on the dump site, checking for disturbance due to animals or weather or accidental discovery by locals or pets, that to run past it everyday.
it wouldn't draw attention as no one would know what their intent was, it's the same with the church.
how better to keep an eye on a body that visit it openly in the guise of praying or whatever else. claiming religion and the need for privacy they can decide what to do and when to do it without fear of discovery.

Something provoked the trip the Huelva, a trip that was not done to other towns to hand out flyers, a trip chosen on the quietest day due to bank holiday.

It was a one off making it highly sensitive.

In the case of Mikaeel it is likely he was placed where he was finally found because it was a familiar place for his mom, it was somewhere she felt safe and comfortable in and also had he not been found, a place where she could have grieved.

by Upsy Daisy 18.01.14 18:01

Yes lance de boils definitely could be confused.

For example to say 'I know' in Scots is 'I ken' which sounds and uses same word ' ken'. The following words also in scandinavian are same in Scots :-

Hoose - hus - house
bairn - barn - child
Oot - ut - out
Coo - kuh - cow
Noo - nu - now
Hame - hem - home

And so on .....

by Upsy Daisy 18.01.14 18:02

Ps 'ken' from kenne in German.

by **Tony Bennett** 18.01.14 18:03

Assuming one or more close relatives are responsible for removing Mikaeel's body and telling lies about it, the main possible charges:

* Murder, manslaugher, GBH, ABH, neglect (depending on the post-mortem, the results of which should be available within 48 hours)

* Perverting the course of justice

* Hiding a body and preventing an autopsy.

Probably all three.

The mother's lies about what happened have already been exposed

by ChippyM 18.01.14 18:12

mysterion wrote:If a parent deliberately killed a child or let a child die, then yes I don`t see a "correct" burial site being considered. However in the case of an accident I do see it likely as a mark of respect and a place of pilgrimage on anniversaries.

The police haven't mentioned a burial though, the body may just have been covered up or concealed somehow. The removal from the scene was pretty quick too. If the house was empty (and being 40 miles away) it may have been the safest place the mother could think of to leave the body whilst she concocted a story and hoped that she would get away with it.

I am thinking there must have been some negligence or abuse otherwise she wouldn't try to conceal the body.

by Guest 18.01.14 18:18

ChippyM wrote:
mysterion wrote:If a parent deliberately killed a child or let a child die, then yes I don`t see a "correct" burial site being considered. However in the case of an accident I do see it likely as a mark of respect and a place of pilgrimage on anniversaries.

The police haven't mentioned a burial though, the body may just have been covered up or concealed somehow. The removal from the scene was pretty quick too. If the house was empty (and being 40 miles away) it may have been the safest place the mother could think of to leave the body whilst she concocted a story and hoped that she would get away with it.

I am thinking there must have been some negligence or abuse otherwise she wouldn't try to conceal the body.

I have said earlier, please do not jump to conclusions, at the moment we are told the mother has been detained for questioning.....NOT arrested. The police will decide that by midnight tonight. We really should not be accusing anyone - we do not know!

by aiyoyo 18.01.14 18:19

Whoever did it wanted the body to be found, simply by the fact he was not disposed off or hidden.
He was placed in the back garden of the place he was born in, and subsequently found.

by Hongkong Phooey 18.01.14 18:23

aiyoyo wrote:Whoever did it wanted the body to be found, simply by the fact he was not disposed off or hidden.
He was placed in the back garden of the place he was born in, and subsequently found.

Thought it was in the woods beyond the back garden not actually in it?