Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

by **PeterMac** 27.12.13 10:09

All the rest of their witnesses were caught out as well as being inadequate.

And in one famous - infamous - case , caught out Reading from the crib sheet
In others admitting that they were simply repeating what they had been told to say

Rather like Mrs Mattorell in the High Court, who also admitted under oath, during cross examination, that she was merely repeating what she had been told to say - by the principal suspects
And she was doing it for money.

Were the others being paid, one wonders ?

by aiyoyo 27.12.13 10:10

Smokeandmirrors wrote:
plebgate wrote:Good post PeterM, the judge was right to throw him out then Didn't even provide a "real" doctor to give evidence or medical report then? Two doctors should have known how important it was to the action to provide this and their solicitor, so I have to asked myself what on earth is going on??????

From what I understand from the transcripts of the proceedings, and the supposed basis for the trial, coupled with the very weak and substandard representation from McCann witnesses, is once again that their egos and sense of entitlement have replaced reality and fact.

They live in a dream world where they think they can say or do anything with impunity, dictate and control police investigations, demand obedience from others whilst causing misinformation and obfuscation themselves.

Their case was, and remains, completely inadequate and devoid of substance.

Defence team should and can capitalise on the flaws and weaknesses as part of their closing statements.

by **PeterMac** 27.12.13 10:11

For people who have paid a fortune - of other people's money, obviously - to experts for "managing" their image, they have been remarkable lax about what they have allowed into the public domain.

Biut then one remembers the definition of an Expert.

It is derived from two latin words
Ex - meaning a "has been"
Spurt - a drip under pressure

by Guest 27.12.13 10:25

PeterMac wrote:For people who have paid a fortune - of other people's money, obviously - to experts for "managing" their image, they have been remarkable lax about what they have allowed into the public domain.

Biut then one remembers the definition of an Expert.

It is derived from two latin words
Ex - meaning a "has been"
Spurt - a drip under pressure

Aww my dad who is no longer with us used to always say that.

by aiyoyo 27.12.13 10:55

PeterMac wrote:
All the rest of their witnesses were caught out as well as being inadequate.
And in one famous - infamous - case , caught out Reading from the crib sheet
In others admitting that they were simply repeating what they had been told to say

Rather like Mrs Mattorell in the High Court, who also admitted under oath, during cross examination, that she was merely repeating what she had been told to say - by the principal suspects
And she was doing it for money.

Were the others being paid, one wonders ?

The crib sheet reader also lied in many areas.
Most of them were caught out lying in fact.
A couple of them were caught out not having done their homework

Depending whether they went in good faith or in professional capacity.
One assumes at least a few, if not all, were paid. No reason why all this professional would work FOC for the Mccanns.
Even if only travel costs were borne by the Fund it is frivolous spending of other people's money ring fenced for the search.
Using it for this purpose is unlawful and they're obliged to repay if found guilty.

by Guest 27.12.13 11:15

aiyoyo wrote:
The crib sheet reader also lied in many areas.
Most of them were caught out lying in fact.
A couple of them were caught out not having done their homework

Depending whether they went in good faith or in professional capacity.
One assumes at least a few, if not all, were paid. No reason why all this professional would work FOC for the Mccanns.
Even if only travel costs were borne by the Fund it is frivolous spending of other people's money ring fenced for the search.
Using it for this purpose is unlawful and they're obliged to repay if found guilty.

If and when they are finally found guilty of being involved in their daughter's disappearance, I hope that all the people they have tried to ruin financially and emotionally are recompensed, either from their remaining assets, or if needs be via the government - it would be a bill running into millions of pounds though! Their bully boy tactics of "criticise me and I'll sue" are disgusting. I dearly hope that they lose the libel trial and if they appeal, that they lose that as well, thus emptying the coffers. I cannot wait for the day when they can no longer afford to pay all the people who are employed to cover up the truth.

by Guest 27.12.13 18:23

"Not sure how I feel about seeing Mr Amaral – for the first time ever, I hasten to add! I know I'm not scared but that man has caused us so much upset and anger because of how he has treated my beautiful Madeleine and the search to find her. He deserves to be miserable and feel fear."

Narcissists go into rages in which they blame and criticize others.
They seem like small children throwing huge tantrums, frightening those around them. The anger of narcissists is not only frightening, it is demeaning. Their criticism evolves from their steadfast conviction that others don’t meet their high standards–or worse, that others aren’t letting them get their own way. “Narcissistic injuries,” or wounds to the ego, are often the impetus for narcissistic rages- which can be manifested as aggressive or passive-aggressive, planned out or impulsive. They feel they are superior to you and that you have displeased them; therefore, they feel you deserve whatever punishment they will dole out.

If as is probable, the trial goes against them I don't think it will end there.
It will be another huge narcissitic injury. There will be consequences. Narcissists don't just turn around and say "sorry I was wrong". Would an immediate appeal be enough, who knows.
Feeling fear is an obsession of KMs. How will it manifest next?

by Doug D 27.12.13 19:33

What grounds are they likely to be able to appeal on?
From reading the transcripts & comment, they seem to be fighting a lost (& ill prepared) cause. They apparently tried to settle (pull out?) with GA at the beginning of the year, but he refused. ID looks as though she is now going through the motions and let her no. 2 represent her on Day 10. Unless the Judge comes out with something very strange in her final judgement, giving them some sort of grounds, surely the advice to them will be to let it go, with a statement accepting the verdict , but trying to deflect away from the underlying conclusions people will reach.

by Guest 27.12.13 19:38

Doug D wrote:What grounds are they likely to be able to appeal on?
From reading the transcripts & comment, they seem to be fighting a lost (& ill prepared) cause. They apparently tried to settle (pull out?) with GA at the beginning of the year, but he refused. ID looks as though she is now going through the motions and let her no. 2 represent her on Day 10. Unless the Judge comes out with something very strange in her final judgement, giving them some sort of grounds, surely the advice to them will be to let it go, with a statement accepting the verdict , but trying to deflect away from the underlying conclusions people will reach.

I believe they are so deluded (and narcissistic) that they won't be able to accept defeat and go away tail between legs. I hope they appeal and leave themselves penniless thus unable to bully anyone else with the threat of litigation.

by Cristobell 27.12.13 20:37

Babalou wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:
The crib sheet reader also lied in many areas.
Most of them were caught out lying in fact.
A couple of them were caught out not having done their homework

Depending whether they went in good faith or in professional capacity.
One assumes at least a few, if not all, were paid. No reason why all this professional would work FOC for the Mccanns.
Even if only travel costs were borne by the Fund it is frivolous spending of other people's money ring fenced for the search.
Using it for this purpose is unlawful and they're obliged to repay if found guilty.
If and when they are finally found guilty of being involved in their daughter's disappearance, I hope that all the people they have tried to ruin financially and emotionally are recompensed, either from their remaining assets, or if needs be via the government - it would be a bill running into millions of pounds though! Their bully boy tactics of "criticise me and I'll sue" are disgusting. I dearly hope that they lose the libel trial and if they appeal, that they lose that as well, thus emptying the coffers. I cannot wait for the day when they can no longer afford to pay all the people who are employed to cover up the truth.

I don't think that day is very far off Babylou and welcome btw smilie

I think the money is already running out and I wonder how many, if any, people are still being paid by the Fund - from the poor turn out in Lisbon, I don't think there is anyone left. During Tony's trial the McCanns had Queen's Counsel and wall to wall barristers and lawyers - by comparison Isabel Duarte looks very small and alone.

A couple of other people have mentioned an Appeal, but I can't see it. They did not want to go through with this trial, so are unlikely to prepare for another, even if Isabel agreed, which I think would be very unlikely.

by Guest 27.12.13 20:51

Thank you for the welcome, Cristobell winkwink

You are probably right that they won't appeal, but with their out-of-control egos you never know! Absolutely staggering that as plaintiffs they tried to settle out-of-court anyway - says it all really. They are not interested in justice; they just want a quick buck and for no-one to point the finger at them. It will be interesting to see what happens if the money dries up - that will change the game completely (though I do hope that they don't have loads squirrelled away in offshore accounts as has been suggested.)

by Smokeandmirrors 27.12.13 20:57

Babalou wrote:Thank you for the welcome, Cristobell
You are probably right that they won't appeal, but with their out-of-control egos you never know! Absolutely staggering that as plaintiffs they tried to settle out-of-court anyway - says it all really. They are not interested in justice; they just want a quick buck and for no-one to point the finger at them. It will be interesting to see what happens if the money dries up - that will change the game completely (though I do hope that they don't have loads squirrelled away in offshore accounts as has been suggested.)

We know from published accounts what went into the fund, but what we do not know, obviously, is what personally named cheques may have been sent to Kate and Gerry, or cash in envelopes (so distastefully suggested in early TV reporting). It is possible that a great deal of funds were sent direct to Rothley and never saw the fund balance sheets.

by Guest 27.12.13 21:13

Smoke and Mirrors - YUK, that's a horrible thought - them gleefully opening envelopes stuffed with cash and cheques! Hopefully there won't be too much more of that going on, ditto celebrities bunging them huge amounts of loot.

by Smokeandmirrors 27.12.13 21:18

Babalou wrote:Smoke and Mirrors - YUK, that's a horrible thought - them gleefully opening envelopes stuffed with cash and cheques! Hopefully there won't be too much more of that going on, ditto celebrities bunging them huge amounts of loot.

It his horrid. Even more horrid is that they didn't think to downsize their house (to a 3 bed semi for example) in order that they used some of their own cash for the search. That is one of the most disgusting things. They took money off poorer people, yet continued to live in a house far bigger than their needs.

by Guest 27.12.13 21:21

@ smokeandmirrors
That reminds me of their first accounts, which were still "quite" detailed. I would think that Income would be specified as "bank" , "cash", etc. But I cannot remember having seen that. Perhaps when Enid is around, she can enlighten me/us. She must know these accounts by heart ... smilie

by stumo 27.12.13 21:26

Smokeandmirrors wrote:
Babalou wrote:Smoke and Mirrors - YUK, that's a horrible thought - them gleefully opening envelopes stuffed with cash and cheques! Hopefully there won't be too much more of that going on, ditto celebrities bunging them huge amounts of loot.

It his horrid. Even more horrid is that they didn't think to downsize their house (to a 3 bed semi for example) in order that they used some of their own cash for the search. That is one of the most disgusting things. They took money off poorer people, yet continued to live in a house far bigger than their needs.

What search? I think, IMHO, hiring the so called experts was a money laundering scheme, they got a percentage to use their name and to put out some false sightings.... allegedly

by Daisy 27.12.13 21:32

stumo wrote:
Smokeandmirrors wrote:
Babalou wrote:Smoke and Mirrors - YUK, that's a horrible thought - them gleefully opening envelopes stuffed with cash and cheques! Hopefully there won't be too much more of that going on, ditto celebrities bunging them huge amounts of loot.

It his horrid. Even more horrid is that they didn't think to downsize their house (to a 3 bed semi for example) in order that they used some of their own cash for the search. That is one of the most disgusting things. They took money off poorer people, yet continued to live in a house far bigger than their needs.

What search? I think, IMHO, hiring the so called experts was a money laundering scheme, they got a percentage to use their name and to put out some false sightings.... allegedly

I can't argue with any of that but I'm sure some will.

by Guest 27.12.13 21:36

We still looking at the enormous difference between what TM said they paid Metodo3 and what M3 says, they actually got ...

by Guest 27.12.13 21:39

Smokeandmirrors wrote:
Babalou wrote:Smoke and Mirrors - YUK, that's a horrible thought - them gleefully opening envelopes stuffed with cash and cheques! Hopefully there won't be too much more of that going on, ditto celebrities bunging them huge amounts of loot.

It his horrid. Even more horrid is that they didn't think to downsize their house (to a 3 bed semi for example) in order that they used some of their own cash for the search. That is one of the most disgusting things. They took money off poorer people, yet continued to live in a house far bigger than their needs.

I have often thought the same thing - downsizing would be the obvious thing to do if the search meant that much to you. Also, maybe Kate could return to her job, even if it was only part-time (or am I being petty now?)

by Smokeandmirrors 27.12.13 22:00

Babalou wrote:
Smokeandmirrors wrote:
Babalou wrote:Smoke and Mirrors - YUK, that's a horrible thought - them gleefully opening envelopes stuffed with cash and cheques! Hopefully there won't be too much more of that going on, ditto celebrities bunging them huge amounts of loot.

It his horrid. Even more horrid is that they didn't think to downsize their house (to a 3 bed semi for example) in order that they used some of their own cash for the search. That is one of the most disgusting things. They took money off poorer people, yet continued to live in a house far bigger than their needs.
I have often thought the same thing - downsizing would be the obvious thing to do if the search meant that much to you. Also, maybe Kate could return to her job, even if it was only part-time (or am I being petty now?)

Well now the kids are at school, she could do locum work for about £6-700 per day before tax. That would surely go quite a long way. But all along, it was about what everyone else should be doing for them

by ultimaThule 27.12.13 22:06

Smokeandmirrors wrote:< snip >
We know from published accounts what went into the fund, but what we do not know, obviously, is what personally named cheques may have been sent to Kate and Gerry, or cash in envelopes (so distastefully suggested in early TV reporting). It is possible that a great deal of funds were sent direct to Rothley and never saw the fund balance sheets.

Or the contents of all of those buckets at football matches, collecting boxes at Glenfield Hopsital, the Ocean Club, and elsewhere, and all of those fares and other tariffs which were waived in lieu of donations, together with those monies which certain grinning members of Clan McCann claimed were pressed upon them by wellwishers intent on contributing to the non-charitable limited company 'fund' which was set up, among other purposes,
'To provide support, including financial assistance, to Madeleine's family'
at a time when K&G's expenses, and those of their various friends and family members, in respect of flights, accomodation, food, drink, and childcare, not to mention the services of assorted 'trauma counsellors', were being met courtesy of Mark Warner Holidays.

by ultimaThule 27.12.13 22:14

Smokeandmirrors wrote:< snip >
Well now the kids are at school, she could do locum work for about £6-700 per day before tax. That would surely go quite a long way. But all along, it was about what everyone else should be doing for them

As was remarked on another recent thread, although her name appears on the GMC's register, Dr Kate Marie Healy is currently not licensed to practise medicine.

It is a matter of conjecture as to what renumeration, if any, or other stipend and reimbursement of expenses, Kate McCann receives in respect of her duties as an 'ambassador' for the charity Missing People.

by Cristobell 27.12.13 22:26

ultimaThule wrote:
Smokeandmirrors wrote:< snip >
We know from published accounts what went into the fund, but what we do not know, obviously, is what personally named cheques may have been sent to Kate and Gerry, or cash in envelopes (so distastefully suggested in early TV reporting). It is possible that a great deal of funds were sent direct to Rothley and never saw the fund balance sheets.
Or the contents of all of those buckets at football matches, collecting boxes at Glenfield Hopsital, the Ocean Club, and elsewhere, and all of those fares and other tariffs which were waived in lieu of donations, together with those monies which certain grinning members of Clan McCann claimed were pressed upon them by wellwishers intent on contributing to the non-charitable limited company 'fund' which was set up, among other purposes,
'To provide support, including financial assistance, to Madeleine's family'
at a time when K&G's expenses, and those of their various friends and family members, in respect of flights, accomodation, food, drink, and childcare, not to mention the services of assorted 'trauma counsellors', were being met courtesy of Mark Warner Holidays.

I can't get over the number of people who flew out to PDL to support them, then joined them in what appeared to be an extended vacation. I would love to hear more from the tapas cook, and indeed other Warners staff, as to what the huge McCann entourage were up to. other than enjoying the pool and tennis facilities.

Tapas cook speaks out:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by ultimaThule 27.12.13 23:05

Châtelaine wrote:@ smokeandmirrors
That reminds me of their first accounts, which were still "quite" detailed. I would think that Income would be specified as "bank" , "cash", etc. But I cannot remember having seen that. Perhaps when Enid is around, she can enlighten me/us. She must know these accounts by heart ...

In its first year of trading to 31/3/2008, the limited company's accounts show a gross sum of £1,846,178 as Income of which £1,390,360 is shown as 'donation income via bank', £391,740 is shown as 'donation income via website' and the balance of £64,078 is shown as income derived from 'sales of t-shirts and wristbands'.

Subsequent annual accounts of the limited company, which according KM would be maintained in accordance with best practice and transparency 'no matter what the cost', do not provide any breakdown of the gross sum shown as Income received.

On a point of information, the limited company's accounts to 31 December 2012 were signed off by the auditors on 21st of that month but, nevertheless, incurred a penalty of £150 for being filed after their due date and were not published until February 2013.

It remains to be seen whether the limited company's current year's accounts are filed by the end of December; as the 'donate online' button has been out of action since mid-November, and banks are refusing to process transfers made at their counters, it's reasonable to suppose that the task of adding up the sums is a tad less onerous than it may have been in past years and its to be hoped the relevant figures will be available to view in the very near future.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 27.12.13 23:11

Cristobell wrote:
I can't get over the number of people who flew out to PDL to support them, then joined them in what appeared to be an extended vacation. I would love to hear more from the tapas cook, and indeed other Warners staff, as to what the huge McCann entourage were up to. other than enjoying the pool and tennis facilities.

Tapas cook speaks out:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Another one of the Tapas bar staff who says that the alarm was raised at 9:30pm not 10pm.

by Daisy 27.12.13 23:31

ultimaThule wrote:
Smokeandmirrors wrote:< snip >
We know from published accounts what went into the fund, but what we do not know, obviously, is what personally named cheques may have been sent to Kate and Gerry, or cash in envelopes (so distastefully suggested in early TV reporting). It is possible that a great deal of funds were sent direct to Rothley and never saw the fund balance sheets.
Or the contents of all of those buckets at football matches, collecting boxes at Glenfield Hopsital, the Ocean Club, and elsewhere, and all of those fares and other tariffs which were waived in lieu of donations, together with those monies which certain grinning members of Clan McCann claimed were pressed upon them by wellwishers intent on contributing to the non-charitable limited company 'fund' which was set up, among other purposes,
'To provide support, including financial assistance, to Madeleine's family'
at a time when K&G's expenses, and those of their various friends and family members, in respect of flights, accomodation, food, drink, and childcare, not to mention the services of assorted 'trauma counsellors', were being met courtesy of Mark Warner Holidays.

So much money unaccounted for.

They milked the Irish angle for all it was worth. I'm sure GM gave special thanks to his Celtic cousins for their generosity though, yes I remember that bit.

by **Hobs** 28.12.13 1:39

Since kate is no longer licenced to practice medicine , i have to wonder why?

Was it voluntary or was it imposed on her?

if it was imposed on her , who imposed it ?
gerry, the local surgery or the GMC.

Why would she stop practicing given it was a job she worked so hard for and given they were skint prior to the vacation, her income was needed if not essential.

Did the surgery ask her to leave or was she pushed when the 'neglect' admission came out.
They wouldn't employ a self confessed neglector who was required by law to contact social services if she saw an obviously neglected child when she herself admitted neglect, there is also the problem of how many people would want to be seen by jer given her admissions.
was it perhaps a case of resign or we will sack you to preserve the surgery reputation.

Was it perhaps the GMC who imposed a ban given again the admitted neglect and her self announced dreams of murder suicide.

No one is going to let her practice if she is mentally unstable.

I don't know if they could demand to see her medical history and thus make a decision on that based on what is revealed.

As it stands she is unemployable especially any job involving contact with childrem. gerry isn't that much better off, he has limited contact with patients and even then i suspect he will be monitored given he too admitted neglect.

by ultimaThule 28.12.13 3:29

See page 2 onwards of tigger's thread [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] for pertinent information re K&G's respective careers, Hobs.

Locum GPs are temporary workers - usually employed to cover out of hours services or to fill in when practice partners/members are on maternity leave/sabbaticals/full time training or other such leave of absence. Many work for agenices but some, such as Dr Kate in May 2007, are employed by established surgeries on short-term contracts.

There is no requirement for such locums to complete the GP vocational training which used to take 3 years but is now considerably longer - to complete this course a wannabe GP mother of three under 3 year olds would require a small army to keep the homefires burning while she embarked on half a dozen or more 6 month stints as a senior house doctor on call 24/7 which necessitates living in hospital accomodation during shifts.

The GMC is self-regulating and, as evidenced by the numbers of 'questionable' doctors it keeps on its register, is effectively a law unto itself. Given that Dr Kate Marie Healy's name continued to appear on the Register as licensed to practice until some time in the last few months, it's unlikely she was subjected to censure or disciplinary procedures of any kind in the aftermath of May 2007 and it should be noted that the career of her spouse, Dr Gerald Patrick McCann, continued and continues unabated.

by ultimaThule 28.12.13 3:51

Babalou wrote:Thank you for the welcome, Cristobell
You are probably right that they won't appeal, but with their out-of-control egos you never know! Absolutely staggering that as plaintiffs they tried to settle out-of-court anyway - says it all really. They are not interested in justice; they just want a quick buck and for no-one to point the finger at them. It will be interesting to see what happens if the money dries up - that will change the game completely (though I do hope that they don't have loads squirrelled away in offshore accounts as has been suggested.)

If the Judge in the ongoing trial in Lisbon finds against them, it's inevitable the McCanns will announce their intention to appeal but whether they follow through, or whether they find themselves in any position to follow through, remains to be seen.

by Miraflores 28.12.13 11:04

Given that Dr Kate Marie Healy's name continued to appear on the Register as licensed to practice until some time in the last few months, it's unlikely she was subjected to censure or disciplinary procedures of any kind in the aftermath of May 2007

She renewed her Registration back in August (at a fee) and then come the middle of November, her status changed and she was no longer licenced to practice. A relatively new continual accreditation process has come into being, so I wonder if, since she hadn't practiced medicine for nearly 6 1/2 years, whether no one could sign off her paperwork?

The fact that she is still on the register says that she is 'in good standing' with the GMC.