LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

ultimaThule wrote:

plebgate wrote:refused permission so they will appeal.    Why didn't they just do it at the start of this hearing?    Do they know that the hearing has gone against them? or is it delaying tactics or both things?

She sat in court for the first 2/3 days, she was available to have given any evidence then.   Why didn't she and why didn't he?

The Judge's decision in the matter of whether or not to grant the McCanns' applications, and that of Dr Amaral's, to take the stand is final and, as far I can ascertain from the Portuguese legal code, cannot be appealed at this stage of the proceedings.  

Dr Amaral's application was, in effect, made in response to that of the McCanns.  If the McCanns had serious intention of giving evidence in support of their claim(s), they would have ensured their names apppeared on the list of witnesses for the Plaintfifs prior to the commencement of the trial.

As it is, the McCanns late application was little more than grandstanding, as demonstrated by Gerry's much publicised arrival outside a Court which he knew full well he would not be admitted to, in order to sow the seeds of unjustness and unfairness if/when judgement is found against him and his equally deceptive spouse. 

The McCanns have often resorted to posing as victims of a cruel world and, insodoing, expect others to overlook the fact their world is entirely of their making.

This tactic may have served them well so far, but it won't wash in front of a jury.

I agree with your analysis. But which jury do you have in mind?

ultimaThule wrote:

plebgate wrote:refused permission so they will appeal.    Why didn't they just do it at the start of this hearing?    Do they know that the hearing has gone against them? or is it delaying tactics or both things?

She sat in court for the first 2/3 days, she was available to have given any evidence then.   Why didn't she and why didn't he?

The Judge's decision in the matter of whether or not to grant the McCanns' applications, and that of Dr Amaral's, to take the stand is final and, as far I can ascertain from the Portuguese legal code, cannot be appealed at this stage of the proceedings.  

Dr Amaral's application was, in effect, made in response to that of the McCanns.  If the McCanns had serious intention of giving evidence in support of their claim(s), they would have ensured their names apppeared on the list of witnesses for the Plaintfifs prior to the commencement of the trial.

As it is, the McCanns late application was little more than grandstanding, as demonstrated by Gerry's much publicised arrival outside a Court which he knew full well he would not be admitted to, in order to sow the seeds of unjustness and unfairness if/when judgement is found against him and his equally deceptive spouse. 

The McCanns have often resorted to posing as victims of a cruel world and, insodoing, expect others to overlook the fact their world is entirely of their making.

This tactic may have served them well so far, but it won't wash in front of a jury.

I am sure you are right that they will use the Judge's refusal to hear them as proof the trial was fixed in Goncalo's favour, when it all goes horribly wrong.

I'm not sure if this was a bluff on their part - they are so slippery it might well have been. They do take unbelievable risks, eg. pressing for a review, but this could have gone either way - the Judge has left it quite late in the day to make her decision. The risk factor may well be a sign of their desperation at this stage, imo they are probably near broke - we can only imagine the lawyers fees they have run up over the years, and who knows how many salaries the Fund has been paying.

I suppose it all depends on exactly how insane they are, especially as the net closes in.

if they are broke, how will they pay for an appeal I wonder?

plebgate wrote:if they are broke, how will they pay for an appeal I wonder?

Doubbleglazer-BK will take care of all their needs ad infinitum, it was reported some time ago

Will he Portia?    Talk is cheap, especially as their witnesses performed so poorly (imo)?

We shall see.

PeterMac wrote:

Kate and Gerry #McCann refused permission to give evidence next week in Lisbon libel trial over ex-cop Goncalo Amaral's book. via #Brunty

Bet the Mcpretense are relieved and rejoice at Judge's decision though they pretend they're appealing. Cant be true since appeal needs time to process and wont meet the 7th Jan deadline. They must have known from their lawyers their application stands v little chance. Had they truly wanted to speak (to add weight to their written testimonies already submitted by ID) they'd have applied from the outset, and not waited till halfway through trial when things were not going their way before clutching at straw. Originally they said they weren't even going to attend for fear of attracting media circle only to Amaral's advantage.

The Judge's refusal was predictably expected since it is observed she's well read up on the case and intolerant of time wasters. Kate & Gerry last minute tactic ( to pull this stunt off in the UK MSM for benefit of UK audience) must have been seen through by the judge, and deemed in the time wasting category. Same as Grandma Healy when she was refused permission to appear; and so was Pat Cameron when she was summarily dismissed with a curt remark (something like the lady can return to her everyday life after she'd moaned about her multiple trips). The Judge must have deemed she has enough info before her without the having to subject the Court to time wasters that will bring no added value to the info on hands.

It's not surprising they wont attend for the closing statements - citing media circle (usual trick), as if?

Will they show up when the Verdict is ready for announcement ?
All depends on their chance, obviously. At the rate of their witnesses lacklustre performance and no medical certificate to support their depression claim, it would appear they may not step onto Portugal soil again for a very long while.

ID had better demand for her fee to be paid in advance....b/c the fund is depleting fast, unless she knows the finance is coming from elsewhere.

Portia wrote:

plebgate wrote:if they are broke, how will they pay for an appeal I wonder?

Doubbleglazer-BK will take care of all their needs ad infinitum, it was reported some time ago

Hmmm...dont be too sure of that ?

A shrewed businessman would know to abandon sinking ship..........!
He stopped paying the pink-slithering-creature a long while ago.

plebgate wrote:if they are broke, how will they pay for an appeal I wonder?

Depends whether it is appealable (technically speaking as opposed to legally speaking)?

Although it is almost certainly a given that generally any case can be appealed; and the Appeal can be taken to the Highest Court in the Land and nowadays even to Foreign Land, if the final verdict is decreed and set out such that any appeal would be futile (ie not appealable) then appealing against such written on stone decision would be a waste of time and resources.

The injunction overturn ruling was made unappealable by virtue of the wordings in the verdict summary, but the mcmighty wanted to test their invincibility, went ahead nonetheless, and look what happened. What did they beget in the end ? More legal costs and DEFEAT.

I don't see how they could even bring this to court in the first place? Even Gerry said back in the day, well before the book came out that posters had been taken down in Portugal, and people had stopped looking and caring as soon as they were named as Arguidos. So, they cannot blame the book for anything.

Hopefully we will see justice make the right decision on this ridiculous case the mccanns have brought to court with the use of the money they were supposed to be using to 'search' for Maddy.

So, what happens after the end of the trial tomorrow?

 If it goes in favour of Goncalo Amaral ( which I sincerely hope it does), does that mean his book can go back on sale again immediately in Portugal?

And what about the rest of the world? Will he then be able to sell it here in England?

TellTheTruth wrote:So, what happens after the end of the trial tomorrow?

 If it goes in favour of Goncalo Amaral ( which I sincerely hope it does), does that mean his book can go back on sale again immediately in Portugal?

And what about the rest of the world? Will he then be able to sell it here in England?

I don't think there is a legal reason that it cannot be sold here already, but rather knowing the litigious natures of the McCanns, publishers have probably decided not to. That is unless Mr Amaral has not approached any publishers here. As it is perfectly OK for him to sell it in Portugal, as he won the appeal, I guess he could have found a way to make it electronically available, as Pat Brown did with her e-book.

If he wins tomorrow I'm wondering whether the newspapers will be a bit more brave.

 If he wins and the Judge agrees that the book isn't full of lies like poor old k and g keep telling us then maybe the papers will report with facts from the book?

Here's hoping. 

TellTheTruth wrote:If he wins tomorrow I'm wondering whether the newspapers will be a bit more brave.

 If he wins and the Judge agrees that the book isn't full of lies like poor old k and g keep telling us then maybe the papers will report with facts from the book?

Here's hoping. 

If only,but there's always a first for everything

plebgate wrote:if they are broke, how will they pay for an appeal I wonder?

\

Is there any evidence they use own money for legal costs?  
Gerry's annual income is only a tiny fraction of their legal costs and still mounting.....
The costs alone in their case against TB amounted to 1/3 of a million.
If they were footing the bills their house would have to be on the market.
Their libel case is a 4-year-running saga involving 3 courts and the costs must be insurmountable to the mccanns if they were paying.
Thus, the logical conclusion is someone else is picking up their legal tabs.

The burning question people been asking for a long time is : Who is footing these bills and more importantly WHY?  What is the vested interest for their financier ?

We can surmise at their possible finance supporter but there may be a more powerful hand behind this for all we know. Until the shit hits the fan it remains a mystery who exactly is holding all this together.

And also: if someone else is picking up the tabs, wouldn't this be income for the Mecs, and wouldn't they, as a consequence, be taxed in person?

If they lose I wouldn't be at all surprised in an anonymous donor steps up and covers the cost.  

A bit like when they put OAP's in prison for Council Tax. The publicity gets so bad some strange unknown person steps up and pays it for damage limitation and save embarrassment to the Government.

I wonder who these knight's in shinning armour are?

Cant be more than one knight in shinning amour, or it gets really complicated to keep a secret.
If we are talking about Freemasonry then maybe! In terms of financing it will be down to one or at most two men with the means and happy to pick up the heavy tabs.

I think their good old days of anonymous donors are gone.

Whoever picks up their legal tabs almost certainly has a vested interest in keeping this under the LID.

That raises the ever burning question: why is it SO important to this man to keep the dirt under cover.

Don't tell me he believes in their innocence and simply happy to burn a big hole in his pocket because of his faith in them - err...err...I dont buy that, NOT at all.

Would the gov be shelling out all this money if it wasn't to keep a lid on a high profile being exposed.

tiny wrote:Would the gov be shelling out all this money if it wasn't to keep a lid on a high profile being exposed.

Having seen posts recently that Portugal tax payers have to foot the bill for the court costs for libel cases, apart from Ms Duarte's fees, what needs to be paid by the 'unfortunate losers'.
Will they (hopefully the plaintives or their backers) have to pay Goncalo Amaral's lawyer fees, the book publishers and TV lawyer fees, and is any compensation to the cleared parties payable. I understand that settlement fees if any are considerably lower than in UK, the 1.5 million Euros, or whatever, being seen as laughable and unheard of in Portugal.
To me, it looks as though Portugal is one of the least costly and most clement places to launch a vexatious libel case if you're likely to be a losing plaintiff.
Perhaps I have totally misunderstood. Is anyone more informed on this matter ?   

tiny wrote:Would the gov be shelling out all this money if it wasn't to keep a lid on a high profile being exposed.

No, course not - and we must remember, its the tax payers money that the government have decided to use to protect some high profile sicko.

Woofer wrote:

tiny wrote:Would the gov be shelling out all this money if it wasn't to keep a lid on a high profile being exposed.

No, course not - and we must remember, its the tax payers money that the government have decided to use to protect some high profile sicko.

Do you think sy have been called in to push an abduction

37 officers from the best Police Force to track own 3 burglars and 2 e-fits.......dont know what to make of it....

Washing it or Netting it....too early to say.....

tiny wrote:

Woofer wrote:

tiny wrote:Would the gov be shelling out all this money if it wasn't to keep a lid on a high profile being exposed.

No, course not - and we must remember, its the tax payers money that the government have decided to use to protect some high profile sicko.

Do you think sy have been called in to push an abduction

Yes, I`m on the `whitewash` side.  Sometimes I waiver and think its taking SY so long because they have realised the case takes in a far wider net than merely the McCanns - and that its an international web of dirt and they are having to liaise with other countries to net them all and get to the big boys.  It shouldn`t have taken SY this long otherwise IMO.

Woofer wrote:

tiny wrote:

Woofer wrote:

tiny wrote:Would the gov be shelling out all this money if it wasn't to keep a lid on a high profile being exposed.

No, course not - and we must remember, its the tax payers money that the government have decided to use to protect some high profile sicko.

Do you think sy have been called in to push an abduction

Yes, I`m on the `whitewash` side.  Sometimes I waiver and think its taking SY so long because they have realised the case takes in a far wider net than merely the McCanns - and that its an international web of dirt and they are having to liaise with other countries to net them all and get to the big boys.  It shouldn`t have taken SY this long otherwise IMO.

im on the whitewash side as well,although we don't know what sy have actually done,it seems to be taking a very long time to come up with any thing
to do with the mccanns,its as if the mccanns are still running the show

Today is the last day of the forensic holidays in Potugal and I hope that the PJ will come over to England.

If they have been told to do a white wash it can do some damage to the UK.

notlongnow wrote:If they have been told to do a white wash it can do some damage to the UK.

yes it will,just hope the portugues don't play along with them

bobbin wrote:

tiny wrote:Would the gov be shelling out all this money if it wasn't to keep a lid on a high profile being exposed.

Having seen posts recently that Portugal tax payers have to foot the bill for the court costs for libel cases, apart from Ms Duarte's fees, what needs to be paid by the 'unfortunate losers'.
Will they (hopefully the plaintives or their backers) have to pay Goncalo Amaral's lawyer fees, the book publishers and TV lawyer fees, and is any compensation to the cleared parties payable. I understand that settlement fees if any are considerably lower than in UK, the 1.5 million Euros, or whatever, being seen as laughable and unheard of in Portugal.
To me, it looks as though Portugal is one of the least costly and most clement places to launch a vexatious libel case if you're likely to be a losing plaintiff.
Perhaps I have totally misunderstood. Is anyone more informed on this matter ?   

It's my understanding that there are two means by which libel proceedings can be instituted in Portugal, bobbin.

Libel proceedings instituted under the criminal code provides for a form of legal aid, for want of a better term, to be made available to plaintiffs and defendants and this may be where the notion of the Portuguese taxpayer picking up the tab for court and other costs has arisen. 

However, these particular proceedings have been instituted by the McCanns under the legal (civil) code which decrees that all costs, including court fees, are met by the parties named in the action(s) with the loser(s) paying the legal costs of the other side(s).
 
As far as I can ascertain, any award by way of damages/compensation to the victor(s) is subject to some limitation and rarely exceeds some 25% of the cost of the proceedings, which makes the sum the McCanns are claiming unrealistic, to say the least - but, of course, a claim of e100,000 does not have the same impact on the press as a claim for e1.5million.

Portugal may be one of the least costly European countries in which to file for libel but, given that the onus is on the plaintiff(s) to prove their claim(s), it can't necessarily said to be the most clement.  With regard to legal costs it should be borne in mind that, in addition to Isabel Duarte and her team, the McCanns appear to have retained the services of English lawyers throughout these proceedings.

I haven't been able to access or view a copy of the plaint which was filed against Dr Amaral and the three other defendants but, when attempting to familiarise myself with the history of these proceedings, it seemed to me that that part of the McCanns' claim which alleged that Dr Amaral's book was libellous was determined by the Supreme Court of Portugal when it upheld the Appellate Court's judgement in respect of lifting the ban imposed by a lower court on publication/sales of 'The Truth Of The Lie'.

If this is the case, the ongoing trial which commenced in September 2013 is concerned solely with determining whether publication of Dr Amaral's non-libellous book about the Madeleine McCann case caused her parents and her siblings whatever mental/emotional suffering, infringement of right to family life, etc, is claimed in the plaint which they filed c2009. 

Fwiw, tiny, any 'lid' is well and truly off and IMO the 'shelling out' of 'all this money' has one purpose which is to bring the perpertrators of a heinous crime against a 3 year old child to justice.

@ ultimaThule

""any 'lid' is well and truly off and IMO the 'shelling out' of 'all this money' has one purpose which is to bring the perpertrators of a heinous crime against a 3 year old child to justice."
****
Amen to that, UT

I cant see it UT but time will tell