Questions you would like to ask Andy Redwood-a hypothetical exercise-

Are you using phone pings to help you choose the areas you wish to search?

Have you spoken to Justine McGuinness about what was left under the sofa

What are the real objectives of Operation Grange?

Who is feeding the media?

Do you think that it is wise to alert a suspect via the media?

Do you think that Madeleine is put in danger when the media alerts the suspect?

For heavens sake, Andy, please just show the proof you have for the t9 that makes them not suspects! Then, you would have the admiration of the public for your determination in this case (maybe you don't have any) IMO  

Andy are you and your team really digging in Praia da luz? or further afield.

Is this the lull before the storm?

Theresa May has recently said that we are about to see yet another judge led public inquiry into policing. Any idea what that could be about?

sharonl wrote:Theresa May has recently said that we are about to see yet another judge led public inquiry into policing.  Any idea what that could be about?

Theresa May appears to have read the Riot Act to the police forces in general which is extremely unusual for the party of Law and Order.

Which I suspect is code for the public that all is not well within the ranks of the boys( sic ) in blue.

There are many ' Inquiries ' to come i.e. The Lawrence Inquiry- The Hillsborough Inquiry - Plebgate  etc etc and of course the follow on to Levenson Inquiry. She has attacked the ranks ( the Police Federation) but not the upper echelons who ultimately responsible for the altering of constables statements re: Hillsborough. I read that altering contemporaneous notes for a policeman is a Criminal ( potentially jailable act ) so we shall see what occurs in all instances.

The state of the Police is reflective of the status of  all the public bodies that we once had faith in and the effect of trying to turn a negative into a positive ( hereby referred to as spin) and the police forces of the nation have used it like every other august body from Parliamentary representatives to the spinners themselves. So much so that now it is not the message that is important it is its delivery and effect on the public conscience. So the Court of Public opinion is more important that getting to the truth.

I like blacksmith ( on his non vitriolic anti MSM- Mitchell days ) and he trys to avoid enmeshing the bureau in the whys and hows of the Madeleine investigation which is fair enough. Yet they know and we know that all is not as it seems in the wonderful world of this investigation and that the whole truth and nothing but the truth etc etc is not being told to the public in this particular case. The hiding of the known  facts is what makes those who are interested in the truth itch. Something(s) just don't sit right and despite not having access to what SY or the PJ have we all theorise just as much as the police must do. So what is it that makes us think one thing ( or many things?)
that the real investigators don't think? Police investigators have to think cynically because they have to place themselves in the shoes of the criminal and all the machinations that way of thinking can throw up. Some unpalatable- some unbelievable but that is their job. It is what they do and must do in all cases even where innocence is proven in the end.

My point I suppose is that the likes of Jim Gamble or DI Redwood or the person who is in charge of the current/past PJ investigation must have thought like many forumites ( pro and anti ) must have thought and this must influence their line of investigation. You can call it a remit
if you like but as the facts alter depending on what they see and surely the focus of the investigation must alter also? It will be interesting to find out whatt SY/PJ are looking for and find. If there is anything to find of course?

My bank ( it isn't mine - I just have some money in there ) sent me a letter telling me how wonderful they are and various mission statements
were declared and like the police I thought just get on with your job it's what I pay the fees for. I'm not saying that just because I pay the fees for the police or the bank that I can command and direct what they do it's just that it's  what you both declare that it's  what you do and do well. Just do it then without fanfare.


p.s. as an indication of the current trend for useless declarations from public bodies Corporates etc see this Mitchell and Webb video:

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XTC wrote:

sharonl wrote:Theresa May has recently said that we are about to see yet another judge led public inquiry into policing.  Any idea what that could be about?

Theresa May appears to have read the Riot Act to the police forces in general which is extremely unusual for the party of Law and Order.

Which I suspect is code for the public that all is not well within the ranks of the boys( sic ) in blue.

There are many ' Inquiries ' to come i.e. The Lawrence Inquiry- The Hillsborough Inquiry - Plebgate  etc etc and of course the follow on to Levenson Inquiry. She has attacked the ranks ( the Police Federation) but not the upper echelons who ultimately responsible for the altering of constables statements re: Hillsborough. I read that altering contemporaneous notes for a policeman is a Criminal ( potentially jailable act ) so we shall see what occurs in all instances.

The state of the Police is reflective of the status of  all the public bodies that we once had faith in and the effect of trying to turn a negative into a positive ( hereby referred to as spin) and the police forces of the nation have used it like every other august body from Parliamentary representatives to the spinners themselves. So much so that now it is not the message that is important it is its delivery and effect on the public conscience. So the Court of Public opinion is more important that getting to the truth.

I like blacksmith ( on his non vitriolic anti MSM- Mitchell days ) and he trys to avoid enmeshing the bureau in the whys and hows of the Madeleine investigation which is fair enough. Yet they know and we know that all is not as it seems in the wonderful world of this investigation and that the whole truth and nothing but the truth etc etc is not being told to the public in this particular case. The hiding of the known  facts is what makes those who are interested in the truth itch. Something(s) just don't sit right and despite not having access to what SY or the PJ have we all theorise just as much as the police must do. So what is it that makes us think one thing ( or many things?)
that the real investigators don't think? Police investigators have to think cynically because they have to place themselves in the shoes of the criminal and all the machinations that way of thinking can throw up. Some unpalatable- some unbelievable but that is their job. It is what they do and must do in all cases even where innocence is proven in the end.

My point I suppose is that the likes of Jim Gamble or DI Redwood or the person who is in charge of the current/past PJ investigation must have thought like many forumites ( pro and anti ) must have thought and this must influence their line of investigation. You can call it a remit
if you like but as the facts alter depending on what they see and surely the focus of the investigation must alter also? It will be interesting to find out whatt SY/PJ are looking for and find. If there is anything to find of course?

My bank ( it isn't mine - I just have some money in there ) sent me a letter telling me how wonderful they are and various mission statements
were declared and like the police I thought just get on with your job it's what I pay the fees for. I'm not saying that just because I pay the fees for the police or the bank that I can command and direct what they do it's just that it's  what you both declare that it's  what you do and do well. Just do it then without fanfare.


p.s. as an indication of the current trend for useless declarations from public bodies Corporates etc see this Mitchell and Webb video:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Is Blacksmith still going strong?  The link I have for his website doesn't seem to work anymore.

I totally agree with you about the need for public institutions to constantly declare how wonderful without any need for them to actually do anything useful!

Have you invited Madeleine's parents to Praia Da Luz?

Will you be looking here?

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hello sir police. why the road to the mountain resembles an Egyptian eye
and what the message?[url=about:blank]dig_up12.jpg[/url][url=about:blank]images.jpg[/url]

What happened to the bag photographed on the wardrobe shelf ?

Andy, are you at a point of considering of lowering an aircraft engine between two buildings also ?

Do you think it would be a good idea to use your new sniffer dogs in Apartment 5a ?

Have you thought of digging up anywhere else?

You had permission to search until Friday,why did you finish so quick yesterday?What did you find?

Do you ever blink?

How did you manage to keep a straight face on the Crimewatch programme?

Who do YOU think killed Jill Dando, now that the man who was framed for it has been released?

Did you believe the dogs when they alerted during the digs which ended last week?

worriedmum wrote:Did you believe the dogs when they alerted during the digs which ended last week?

Did they worriedmum? Have I missed this??   

When and where did they alert, and to what?

Maybe I am jumping to conclusions but this springs to mind...
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Will you still be in Portugal on the 8th July?

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I am familiar with the sight of the GNR in their green overalls, smart matching dog-coats, green vans and all...

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(both pictures clipped from CNN online)

Who are these chaps, then?

A force to be reckoned with?

The sniffer dogs which you recently brought in to Praia Da Luz did not discover 'anything useful' in the search for Madeleine. However the British dogs brought in by Martin Grimes alerted separately to blood and cadaver odour.   

How would you explain your apparent reluctance to explore further the findings of Eddie and Keela when you have used the skills of sniffer dogs  in your own operation?

Eddie and Keela  were specifically trained for blood and cadaver ,the port. dogs were trained to follow a scent given to them from an item used be person missing . So quite different type dogs . I hope this helps I was I Portugal last year and saw a demonstration of dogs being sent into cars ,and when it was over ,I aske the policeman ,could they be used for death  . he said NO and shook his head no . joyce1938

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Officers continue scouring patch of scrubland including concealed shaft, as others use micro-cameras to inspect drains

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• [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], Thursday 5 June 2014 12.22 BST
  

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British police with sniffer dogs check an area of scrubland during the search in the Praia da Luz. Photograph: Philip Toscano/PA
Detectives investigating the disappearance of [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] have opened manholes and begun searching drains in the Portuguese holiday resort where she went missing in 2007.
A team of British and Portuguese police officers lifted off three manhole covers and used a micro-camera on a long stick to search the underground sewerage system in Praia da Luz on Thursday.
The manholes are around s metres (20ft) from a grave-like hole discovered on Wednesday by officers using ground penetrating radar. Around two dozen journalists, holidaymakers and residents looked on as the work was carried out on a road that borders the six-hectare (15-acre) area of scrubland where the search began on Monday.
Officers continued scouring the patch of overgrown land on Thursday, using two springer spaniels that helped in the search for the murdered Welsh schoolgirl April Jones.

"Andy, oi Andy, do you think 10ltrs of whitewash will be enough? There's a good deal on at Paints 'r' All White, at the moment"!

jeanmonroe wrote:"Andy, oi Andy, do you think 10ltrs of whitewash will be enough? There's a good deal on at Paints 'r' All White, at the moment"!

Jeanmonroe, there has been much made of the 38-strong Operation Grange team.

I wonder how many of this 38-strong OG team are the original team. Allowing for retirement, illness etc of course, I wonder how many people have applied for transfers/been moved on/moved sideways.

Just a thought.

When did you last speak to Jim Gamble?

worriedmum wrote:When did you last speak to Jim Gamble?

If you are not going to read the Portuguese files when are SY going to get out of the way?


Confusion is not good ( see Jim Gamble and Summers and Swann)

Also see: The Truth of the Lie for more clarity.