Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus *UPDATE* CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

by Cristobell 21.06.13 13:59

Woofer wrote:
Cristobell wrote:Presumably the Crown Prosecution Service would only get involved when a case is ready for prosecution? And I assume any prosecution would be here in the UK, as they don't have jurisdiction in Portugal. Perhaps Petermac can clarify.

That`s what I don`t get Cristobell - why do they have to go to Portugal?

I would imagine they need to make the case watertight, the mccanns employed legal big guns from the start and a court case would be a real clash of the titans. The prosecutors may be preparing their case for prosecution and knowledge of the locus in quo probably forms part of this. This is pure speculation on my part, but I cannot see that their visit is the result of obscure sightings and leads that have led nowhere this past six years.

by Me 21.06.13 14:00

If the CPS are going to Portugal then they can only be going to discuss evidence relating to the PJ's investigation and findings.

We all know the way the Portuguese investigation went and the general line of the files so the CPS must only be discussing those lines of enquiry, otherwise why would they need to go talk to the PJ?

If they were looking to prosecute rogue paedos and cleaners why would they need to talk to the PJ given they have no evidence of either in their files? If that was where SY were going why would they talk to the PJ? What would be the point?

A positive development and bums are no doubt squeaking in a certain Leicestershire village right now!

by Woofer 21.06.13 14:09

Thanks Candyfloss and Poe - yes, I suppose that does make sense.

I`m holding out hope that the MET have decided that there is now a good case to bring against the 3 Arguidos as the PJ determined in the first place.

by Praiaaa 21.06.13 14:32

April, interesting! (When did Joana Morais go quiet on Maddie??)

And in the article, the words used are 'missing' and 'disappearance' no mention of abduction, and no comment from TM.

by Cristobell 21.06.13 15:07

I can't see the CPS getting involved until there is a case and identifiable suspects to prosecute.

by **PeterMac** 21.06.13 15:15

The CPS actually went in April.
Since then we have had the announcement that SY are going to take over the "enquiry", authorised and funded by the HO
Just to repeat, CPS do not investigate.
They review evidence presented to them, and sometimes ask for more.
I can think of a few good reasons why they might want to know what the Portuguese would be able to produce if anything went ahead in England.
Bear in mind that they are unlikely to get any co-ooperation from any suspect, and that some of the finest lawyers of all descriptions will be on 24 hour call.

Whatever they do will have to be watertight.

by aiyoyo 21.06.13 15:24

PeterMac wrote:The CPS do not investigate anything
The CPS do not discuss leads
The CPS "review" the evidence presented to them by the Police (or other investigatory authorities) and decide on two things
1 Sufficiency of evidence, and the likelihood of a conviction
2 Whether it is in the public interest to prosecute.

Read the above with this in mind !

Exactement! And they can't be there pertaining to prosecution of foreigner in Portugal which isn't under their jurisdiction.

For UK CPS to be there assessing prosecution materials it must be about the prosecution of Brits.

And like you said it has to be watertight especially in this particular case, because it is too high profile, and the main players are proven to be armed with an array of expensive lawyers and best spokesman able to spin and use media to their advantage.

There'll just be a surprise announcement of the prosecution, nothing less, no build up to it.

by Me 21.06.13 15:28

aiyoyo wrote:
PeterMac wrote:The CPS do not investigate anything
The CPS do not discuss leads
The CPS "review" the evidence presented to them by the Police (or other investigatory authorities) and decide on two things
1 Sufficiency of evidence, and the likelihood of a conviction
2 Whether it is in the public interest to prosecute.

Read the above with this in mind !

Exactement! And they can't be there pertaining to prosecution of foreigner in Portugal which isn't under their jurisdiction.

For UK CPS to be there assessing prosecution materials it must be about the prosecution of Brits.

And to add to the end of that last sentence:

or UK CPS to be there assessing prosecution materials it must be about the prosecution of Brits... who are already in the Portuguese files.

Who could that be i wonder!!

by tasprin 21.06.13 15:31

And I doubt the CPS would travel to Portugal if the Met were thinking of pinning this on a dead paedo. You can't prosecute the dead.

by ShuBob 21.06.13 15:35

Let's wait in hope.

On the face of it, things look promising as in progress is being made. It would be nice though to hear the Portuguese take on the latest development. Their silence thus far could be a positive sign. I live in hope pray2

by Shrike 21.06.13 15:40

My first post although I've been following this case very closely for 2 months now. Before this I just could not look at anything McCann! Could not get registered on the the Missing Madeleine forum due to troll blocking. Seems to me that the trolls have gone very quiet recently.
I try to look at everything logically but being a cynic logic plays has no place in this world sometimes. But I sit in hope here that justice will be done following what must be big developments with the CPS. Surely, not all these people can be involved in a whitewash? We will see but good points are made about the current climate following recent high profile prosecutions involving children. SY and the CPS must know about all the information out there and where the evidence leads - I doubt they would put their reputation on the line to this extent knowing that there is a big chance of something coming out in the future. I can't believe that so many high profile people are involved however interesting conspiracy theories are. I just think that these politicians et al have jumped on the populist bandwaggon in the past. This would also be a huge winner for DC at a difficult time for his government - I think he realises what the populist vote has become regarding this case, so few people believe TM anymore. But then there's still that cynic in me. catfight

by Woofer 21.06.13 15:47

Welcome Shrike.

You`ve made a good point about SY not putting their reputation on the line by risking a whitewash when the truth is bound to come out in the future. That thought has given me hope, when I`m normally very sceptical about SYs intentions, particularly when the McCanns are said to be `kept up to date` by SY.

Fingers crossed.

by aiyoyo 21.06.13 15:51

Me wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:
PeterMac wrote:The CPS do not investigate anything
The CPS do not discuss leads
The CPS "review" the evidence presented to them by the Police (or other investigatory authorities) and decide on two things
1 Sufficiency of evidence, and the likelihood of a conviction
2 Whether it is in the public interest to prosecute.

Read the above with this in mind !

Exactement! And they can't be there pertaining to prosecution of foreigner in Portugal which isn't under their jurisdiction.

For UK CPS to be there assessing prosecution materials it must be about the prosecution of Brits.

And to add to the end of that last sentence:

or UK CPS to be there assessing prosecution materials it must be about the prosecution of Brits... who are already in the Portuguese files.

Who could that be i wonder!!

This seems like a no expenses spared investigation whereby instead of the evidence coming to the CPS, the CPS lawyers go to the evidence.
I suspect there is a likelihood the CPS are there to confer and work with the Portuguese Prosecutors, as the Portuguese still retain the lead, as the crime was committed there.

It would seem the prosecution can't be legally transferred to UK due to complication in the complex elements in the Portuguese Judiciary systems. Either that,or the CPS are there to discuss loopholes in the Portuguese judiciary systems to transfer the prosecution to UK. The latter can be a time-consuming process with several levels of clearance and approval needed. In that case it is too premature to have made the announcement about the CPS visit, in fact there is no need to announce it. So I am inclined to think it is the former.

Either way there is not a shadow of doubt the CPS are there to examine prosecutable evidence because that is the typical purview of the CPS. They are not there to help the Police do their job in any shape or form.

by Woofer 21.06.13 15:54

Praiaaa wrote:April, interesting! (When did Joana Morais go quiet on Maddie??)And in the article, the words used are 'missing' and 'disappearance' no mention of abduction, and no comment from TM.

I think Joana`s last tweet about Maddie`s case was around March though she continued to tweet other topics for a while. And the last comment on her website was 6th May.

by aiyoyo 21.06.13 15:58

Let's put it this way - it would be total madness for Home Office to fund CPS travel to Portugal just to chase up leads or illusive abductor or prosecution of a foreigner that the CPS has neither jurisdiction nor power over.

For Home Office to fund the travel, the CPS personnel are literally empowered by the Home Office.

by tasprin 21.06.13 16:01

Shrike wrote: My first post although I've been following this case very closely for 2 months now. Before this I just could not look at anything McCann! Could not get registered on the the Missing Madeleine forum due to troll blocking. Seems to me that the trolls have gone very quiet recently.
I try to look at everything logically but being a cynic logic plays has no place in this world sometimes. But I sit in hope here that justice will be done following what must be big developments with the CPS. Surely, not all these people can be involved in a whitewash? We will see but good points are made about the current climate following recent high profile prosecutions involving children. SY and the CPS must know about all the information out there and where the evidence leads - I doubt they would put their reputation on the line to this extent knowing that there is a big chance of something coming out in the future. I can't believe that so many high profile people are involved however interesting conspiracy theories are. I just think that these politicians et al have jumped on the populist bandwaggon in the past. This would also be a huge winner for DC at a difficult time for his government - I think he realises what the populist vote has become regarding this case, so few people believe TM anymore. But then there's still that cynic in me.

Hello Shrike, I'm naturally sceptical about all this but, as you pointed out, there are currently numerous high profile cases involving children and people are becoming generally more aware that children have been very badly let down by the system. Madeleine McCann is one of those children - this case has always been about her parents rather than her - and I remain hopeful that SY will get to the bottom of it. I agree that some huge conspiracy involving so many people is very unlikely but I think, from day one, the interference from powerful and influential characters has hampered the solving of the case .
I agree, it would go down well for David Cameron.

by Praiaaa 21.06.13 16:08

Am inclined to email DC to tell him his party will gain votes if they man up on TM.

by Praiaaa 21.06.13 16:19

Earlier today the ES article had comments (including one from Graham). The first comment said, 'where's the evidence of an abduction' Can't see comments now...

by Guest 21.06.13 16:45

I do recall that the PJ had got hold of telephone files, but were not allowed to use them, because they hadn't followed the right procedure to lay their hands on it. So, they do/did know what's in it, but cannot / couldn't use it. It's likely that SY knows it too, but cannot use it either, WITHOUT a Portuguese judge's permission. I can imagine that two top UK prosecutors could be "convincing" to liberate such evidence and maybe other withheld stuff ...

To me it seems evident that whatever suspects SY is looking at, they will be British.
And, inasmuch as I understand, the UK could prosecute British subjects in serious crime cases, which happened abroad.

by Smokeandmirrors 21.06.13 17:05

The silence from Rothley, Carter Ruck and Clarrie is deafening. Philomena, of course, is still trying to peel the duct tape off her face. I don't think she'll manage, I am sure Gezza quadruple wrapped it round her!

by Praiaaa 21.06.13 17:07

and can presumably also prosecute in derivative crimes - eg where the main crime was committed abroad, eg Portugal, and the conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, or fraud, committed in the UK.

by jeanmonroe 21.06.13 17:08

Would/could the CPS dare take the risk, of clearing McS?, against any of the remaining T7/T8 doing "an Adrian Prout" (confession to murder, FOUR years later) and completely backfiring on them in the future?

by Guest 21.06.13 17:18

Praiaaa wrote:and can presumably also prosecute in derivative crimes - eg where the main crime was committed abroad, eg Portugal, and the conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, or fraud, committed in the UK.

Asolutely. That's why the combination of both prosecutors is so enlightening: "Homicide and Sex crimes" and "Fraud" ...

Also the fact, that they went 2 months ago to PT and only after HO gave green light to a full SY investigation this news surfaces.

by aiyoyo 21.06.13 17:24

No reason for CPS lawyers to go there to clear anyone or anything when charges are not brought yet.
CPS gets involved only after end of police investigatory phase and will help determine whether evidence is enough to prosecute or not, or advise which area of the evidence police may need to work on further to ensure a real chance of successful prosecution.
In a nutshell they are there to assess the prospect of a prosecution.

There are plenty unprecedented aspects in this case. Even the special visit of CPS lawyers to Portugal is unprecedented.

by Guest 21.06.13 17:26

Right. Unprecedented.
I am and remain very hopeful.
I only hope the "suspects" are being shadowed 24/24 ...

by Guest 21.06.13 17:31

5:06pm, Fri 21 Jun 2013

UK lawyers went to Portugal to discuss Madeleine leads

Last updated Fri 21 Jun 2013

UK Government lawyers travelled to Portugal to discuss new leads in the case of missing Madeleine McCann with their Portuguese counterparts, it has been confirmed.
London's chief crown prosecutor Alison Saunders and her deputy Jenny Hopkins flew to Portugal with Scotland Yard detectives in connection with the police force's review of the case.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Madeleine McCann was nearly four years old when she disappeared in May 2007. Credit: PA/PA Wire
Madeleine was nearly four years old when disappeared from her family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in Portugal's Algarve on 3 May, 2007, as her parents Kate and Gerry dined at a nearby tapas restaurant with friends.
A Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) spokesman said: "Prosecutors from CPS London, and investigators from the MPS [Metropolitan Police Service], visited their Portuguese counterparts on April 17-18 to discuss possible next steps in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
"We continue to work with the police on this case.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by aiyoyo 21.06.13 17:37

Châtelaine wrote:
Praiaaa wrote:and can presumably also prosecute in derivative crimes - eg where the main crime was committed abroad, eg Portugal, and the conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, or fraud, committed in the UK.

Asolutely. That's why the combination of both prosecutors is so enlightening: "Homicide and Sex crimes" and "Fraud" ...

Also the fact, that they went 2 months ago to PT and only after HO gave green light to a full SY investigation this news surfaces.

If the MET were in close contact with the Mccanns and updating them regularly as we were given to believe, then it is very strange that they have not said anything about the CPS visit nor about their delight with the latest development.

Whatever happened to their talented spokescreature, surely spinning the CPS visit would not be beyond him, so why the total silence? Uhmmm.....

The CPS visit was done two months ago, which incidentally coincides with the glum mccanns who were in tears during the last outdoor prayers service.

Question is: if Home Office approved continual funding post CPS visit, the significance is quite obvious now.

by Guest 21.06.13 17:41

IMO They didn't look like they lost someone / something, but rather like they lost.

by Praiaaa 21.06.13 17:44

spokescreature

Good word! Where is Clarrie?
As a parent, I do hate the fact that there could be eventual arrests of parents..
But when I hug my own child, one of many who was traumatised by those 'Maddie stolen from her bed' scary ads before the Shrek movie, I hope the twins will be able to grow up securely in the care of people who will look after them and keep them safe.

by Guest 21.06.13 18:23

Praiaaa wrote:spokescreature

Good word! Where is Clarrie?
As a parent, I do hate the fact that there could be eventual arrests of parents..
But when I hug my own child, one of many who was traumatised by those 'Maddie stolen from her bed' scary ads before the Shrek movie, I hope the twins will be able to grow up securely in the care of people who will look after them and keep them safe.

I agree, Praiaaa, perhaps this was the reason for the alleged cover up to begin with. I'm not optimistic for the investigation but mindful that if we do wind up celebrating there will still be two children left without their parents having already lost their big sister. With nobody to protect them from the press in the years ahead. It strikes me that in the rush to look after themselves the McCanns have done a major injustice to all of their children.

Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

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