McCanns Hire Car Contract

jd wrote:

Portia wrote:

Inspectorfrost wrote:@ David/JD, thats probably correct.

@MM the previous driver had a different pass number.


For general reference, this is a graph which shows who had the car and when. I think the top box shows when the car was rented and by who and the bottom boxes show when it was returned. The car lay unbooked from 12th April to 8th May, the longest unbooked period. probably nothing, I just noticed it.

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ETA

JD/Bristow, the hire of the car from 8th May for a week was by a John Brown with additional driver MW, the two MWs having different driving licences so they can't be the same person.

Wasn't a John Brown a brother of Gordon? The one GM worked with on the nuclear research thing? Comare, or what was it?

And why, if GM can be supplied with 2 passports, as it seems, could not a Michael Wright be fitted out wth 2 drivers licenses?

Brown has two brothers, John Brown and Andrew Brown. Andrew has been Head of Media Relations in the UK for the French-owned utility company EDF Energy since 2004.[140] Brown is also the brother-in-law of environmental journalist Clare Rewcastle Brown. Brown wrote a piece for The Independent, supporting Clare's current environmental efforts on behalf of Sarawak.[141]

I didn't realise gordys real name is James Brown. ....James Gordon Brown (born 20 February 1951)....Like tony bliar using his middle name

Inspectorfrost wrote:@Portia
GM is a cardiology consultant/researcher, he would have gone to these kind of conferences and paid for by his employer or a n others who wanted him there

@JD
Even though MW is not named as an additional driver in that copy from August, the details may well have been copied over from previous rental paperwork from the initial rental and his name just removed for that period.
But
A related subject is that the times he was named as additional driver do not tally with his statements on when he was actually put on as one.

Portia wrote:

Inspectorfrost wrote:

jd wrote:Can anyone make out where the date stamp on January 19th 2006 in gerry mccanns passport is from?

I think MIA is Miami

Who issued GMs passport?

Portia wrote:

Inspectorfrost wrote:@Portia
GM is a cardiology consultant/researcher, he would have gone to these kind of conferences and paid for by his employer or a n others who wanted him there

@JD
Even though MW is not named as an additional driver in that copy from August, the details may well have been copied over from previous rental paperwork from the initial rental and his name just removed for that period.
But
A related subject is that the times he was named as additional driver do not tally with his statements on when he was actually put on as one.

Was there such a convention in Miami at or around that date?

Any of our US friends shed a light on this?

candyfloss wrote:This is what a Miama passport stamp looks like, it looks pretty similar....

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jd wrote:

bristow wrote:

jd wrote:The Scenic according to the PJ files was hired out before the mccanns from 8th May 2007 for a week (I think it was a week). Just by coincidence by a Michael Wright, but not the same gerry mccann Michael Wright. This Michael Wright hired the car from the 8th whilst being in PDL on a golfing trip with friends

Too many coincidences to be true, all the time with this case.
Glad you're back posting jd, I like your investigations.

Thanks Bristow [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

The "Michael Wrights" on the face of it do seem to be 2 different people which the PJ checked out both of them

The mileage:

The car milometer reading on 27 May, the date the car was hired, was 3114
km. By the time the car milometer was read again on 23 September, the reading was 14443, meaning that in those four months or so, 11,332 km had been clocked up - just under 7,000 miles. The mileage per day was around 60 miles; around 420 a week.

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The Queniborugh address gerry mccann used with Budget rent-a-car hire contract is false as he had moved out of this address some 17 months previous on 20th January 2006 and was living in Rothley

The DVLA number seems to be correct

But what is the "pass" number? 654646546 01-01-2007

This seems to be a passport number which looking at other contracts seems to be the obvious case, with the date of issue of the passport

Aside from January 1st being a bank holiday (New Years Day), this does not match his passport number in the PJ Files, which says 704******
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Nor are the issue and expiry dates on his passport which are
Issued on Sept 2nd 2004
Expires Sept 2nd 2014

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So what is 654646546 01-01-2007? Is it a false passport number? Does gerry mccann have 2 passports?

Also, the Queniborough house was sold on 20th January 2006...Interesting to note there is a stamp on gerry mccanns passport on 19th January 2006

sardinehater wrote:As for having two passports, thats simple to do. If you need to go to one place while needing to get a visa (it can take weeks for some countries) for another place you just apply for a second passport.and you can have one so long as your employer states that it is necessary which it might well be for someone frequently attending conferences and having lots of holidays as the McCanns did.

.

monkey mind wrote:

sardinehater wrote:As for having two passports, thats simple to do. If you need to go to one place while needing to get a visa (it can take weeks for some countries) for another place you just apply for a second passport.and you can have one so long as your employer states that it is necessary which it might well be for someone frequently attending conferences and having lots of holidays as the McCanns did.

.

Under normal circumstances a British person travelling to the US would not need a visa. However, homeland security changed the rules drastically after Sept 2001. I stand to be corrected but am fairly sure nowadays certainly around 2006 that if you have been merely arrested and not necessarily charged or convicted with a criminal offence a visa is necessary. The simple fact that there is a record of your having once been arrested demands a visa I believe.

Which makes me look at his CATS number and the empty file accompanying it. I doubt the CATS number itself would be sufficient to warrant a visa, but if the CATS number was given as a result of an arrest from which no subsequent charge was brought it would.

monkey mind wrote:

sardinehater wrote:As for having two passports, thats simple to do. If you need to go to one place while needing to get a visa (it can take weeks for some countries) for another place you just apply for a second passport.and you can have one so long as your employer states that it is necessary which it might well be for someone frequently attending conferences and having lots of holidays as the McCanns did.

.

Under normal circumstances a British person travelling to the US would not need a visa. However, homeland security changed the rules drastically after Sept 2001. I stand to be corrected but am fairly sure nowadays certainly around 2006 that if you have been merely arrested and not necessarily charged or convicted with a criminal offence a visa is necessary. The simple fact that there is a record of your having once been arrested demands a visa I believe.

Which makes me look at his CATS number and the empty file accompanying it. I doubt the CATS number itself would be sufficient to warrant a visa, but if the CATS number was given as a result of an arrest from which no subsequent charge was brought it would.

jd wrote:Good finds....It looks very likely that gerry mccann attended the 9th annual scientific sessions of the society for cardiovascular magnetic resonance: Miami, Florida, January 20-22, 2006......Is it possible that he could have signed the house contracts on say, the 18th? Seems strange that the house was sold while he was away in Miami an normally houses are 'sold' the day the contracts are signed

If he has 2 passports (which I also find strange) then obviously he would have had them both in PDL, but there are only 4 passports in 5A (5th being Maddies). Unless when gerry mccann went back to Rothley on May 19th he brought back another passport. None of this adds up

monkey mind wrote:

monkey mind wrote:

sardinehater wrote:As for having two passports, thats simple to do. If you need to go to one place while needing to get a visa (it can take weeks for some countries) for another place you just apply for a second passport.and you can have one so long as your employer states that it is necessary which it might well be for someone frequently attending conferences and having lots of holidays as the McCanns did.

.

Under normal circumstances a British person travelling to the US would not need a visa. However, homeland security changed the rules drastically after Sept 2001. I stand to be corrected but am fairly sure nowadays certainly around 2006 that if you have been merely arrested and not necessarily charged or convicted with a criminal offence a visa is necessary. The simple fact that there is a record of your having once been arrested demands a visa I believe.

Which makes me look at his CATS number and the empty file accompanying it. I doubt the CATS number itself would be sufficient to warrant a visa, but if the CATS number was given as a result of an arrest from which no subsequent charge was brought it would.

So if Sardinehater is correct about the procedure for a second passport and looking at the dates of the mystery passport 1.1.06 it is possible that GM applied for a second passport prior to Xmas 2005 on the grounds he needed a visa for a cardiology conference. Due to short notice and the imminent conference the passport was processed with speed but instead of using the new passport he uses the old one for some reason. That would seem feasible.

Thing is, he shouldn’t need a visa for the US UNLESS of course he had been arrested but not necessarily charged. Which also may explain the CATS number?

All just conjecture though.

Portia wrote:
Curiouser & curiouser.

So Gordon has a brother John Brown.
A John Brown -golfer!- rents the Scenic in the week Maddie disappears.

His co-driver is a Michael Wright.
Maddies fathers co-driver is a Michael Wright.

Which leads us where?

So did John Brown and GM meet before or at the handover of the Scenic under the original contract?
Or did this Wright guy take care of that?

Did Brown and GM perhaps know each other, say, from this or previous golfing trips?

Is there a connection?

What caused Gordon Brown to take such a deep, curious personal interest in the affair, right from day One?

sardinehater wrote:

monkey mind wrote:

sardinehater wrote:As for having two passports, thats simple to do. If you need to go to one place while needing to get a visa (it can take weeks for some countries) for another place you just apply for a second passport.and you can have one so long as your employer states that it is necessary which it might well be for someone frequently attending conferences and having lots of holidays as the McCanns did.

.

Under normal circumstances a British person travelling to the US would not need a visa. However, homeland security changed the rules drastically after Sept 2001. I stand to be corrected but am fairly sure nowadays certainly around 2006 that if you have been merely arrested and not necessarily charged or convicted with a criminal offence a visa is necessary. The simple fact that there is a record of your having once been arrested demands a visa I believe.

Which makes me look at his CATS number and the empty file accompanying it. I doubt the CATS number itself would be sufficient to warrant a visa, but if the CATS number was given as a result of an arrest from which no subsequent charge was brought it would.

Sorry I never said anyone needed a visa for the USA. I just explained that is why a person might have two passports. If you look at the stamp its pretty clear that there is no visa or you would see it.

Your looking at the CATS number is totally irrelevant to a person having two passports.

It has nothing at all to do with having been arrested in the past or having a CATS number if you want a second passport.

If Gerry McCann frequently travelled and sometimes needed a visa then that is perfectly good reason in itself to require a second passport.

Inspectorfrost wrote:

jd wrote:Good finds....It looks very likely that gerry mccann attended the 9th annual scientific sessions of the society for cardiovascular magnetic resonance: Miami, Florida, January 20-22, 2006......Is it possible that he could have signed the house contracts on say, the 18th? Seems strange that the house was sold while he was away in Miami an normally houses are 'sold' the day the contracts are signed

If he has 2 passports (which I also find strange) then obviously he would have had them both in PDL, but there are only 4 passports in 5A (5th being Maddies). Unless when gerry mccann went back to Rothley on May 19th he brought back another passport. None of this adds up

Its only a days difference. He could have signed before travelling and the buyer sign afterwards. Its not a big deal IMO. Theres powers of attorneys, faxes, 24 hour couriers and all sorts. I think I will bow out of here for now. As I think when GM signing off with his estate agents or lawyers in January 2006 for a new house has nothing to do with MM going missing in May 2007, its just another garden path to lose hours off your life for nothing.

jd wrote:

Portia wrote:
Curiouser & curiouser.

So Gordon has a brother John Brown.
A John Brown -golfer!- rents the Scenic in the week Maddie disappears.

His co-driver is a Michael Wright.
Maddies fathers co-driver is a Michael Wright.

Which leads us where?

So did John Brown and GM meet before or at the handover of the Scenic under the original contract?
Or did this Wright guy take care of that?

Did Brown and GM perhaps know each other, say, from this or previous golfing trips?

Is there a connection?

What caused Gordon Brown to take such a deep, curious personal interest in the affair, right from day One?

This case is full of weird coincidences like this. You couldn't write it and make it believable

The PJ traced the other Wright & Brown to living in Milton Keynes. Reminds me of dianne webster who at the time was living in Bedford and working as a local government credit controller in Milton Keynes, the NHS accounts I believe

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Another name coincidence is Pedro Silva, who is all over the net as a vile pro mccann, and FB friends of Susan Healey and Pam Guerney

In the PJ files

GNR
Terms of Delivery

On 16th June 2007, Infantry Soldier Pedro Silva delivers the following used girl’s clothing to the PJ Inspector who signs this delivery note:

1 checked shirt
2 pairs of pants
3 empty torn bin bags

This was brought to this GNR station on 15-06-2007 by an English lady called Nancy Burridge, resident in Praia da Luz who found the clothing in Colinas Verdes, Bensafrim, Lagos.

She thought the clothing might be of interest to the police investigation in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Delivered


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jd wrote:

Portia wrote:
Curiouser & curiouser.

So Gordon has a brother John Brown.
A John Brown -golfer!- rents the Scenic in the week Maddie disappears.

His co-driver is a Michael Wright.
Maddies fathers co-driver is a Michael Wright.

Which leads us where?

So did John Brown and GM meet before or at the handover of the Scenic under the original contract?
Or did this Wright guy take care of that?

Did Brown and GM perhaps know each other, say, from this or previous golfing trips?

Is there a connection?

What caused Gordon Brown to take such a deep, curious personal interest in the affair, right from day One?

This case is full of weird coincidences like this. You couldn't write it and make it believable

The PJ traced the other Wright & Brown to living in Milton Keynes. Reminds me of dianne webster who at the time was living in Bedford and working as a local government credit controller in Milton Keynes, the NHS accounts I believe

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Another name coincidence is Pedro Silva, who is all over the net as a vile pro mccann, and FB friends of Susan Healey and Pam Guerney

In the PJ files

GNR
Terms of Delivery

On 16th June 2007, Infantry Soldier Pedro Silva delivers the following used girlâ€s clothing to the PJ Inspector who signs this delivery note:

1 checked shirt
2 pairs of pants
3 empty torn bin bags

This was brought to this GNR station on 15-06-2007 by an English lady called Nancy Burridge, resident in Praia da Luz who found the clothing in Colinas Verdes, Bensafrim, Lagos.

She thought the clothing might be of interest to the police investigation in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Delivered


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sardinehater wrote:]Sorry I never said anyone needed a visa for the USA. I just explained that is why a person might have two passports.

No I know you didn’t. I did. I said you need a visa for the US if you have been arrested in the past.

If you look at the stamp its pretty clear that there is no visa or you would see it.

No it's not and no I wouldn't.

Your looking at the CATS number is totally irrelevant to a person having two passports.

Yes, I realise that. But it isn’t totally irrelevant if a previous arrest necessitated a visa.

It has nothing at all to do with having been arrested in the past or having a CATS number if you want a second passport.

No, I also realise that. But you clearly stated that requiring a visa can allow for the issuing of a second passport did you not.

If Gerry McCann frequently travelled and sometimes needed a visa then that is perfectly good reason in itself to require a second passport.

Exactly. But the second passport appears to have been issued just prior to travelling to the US and being British he would not need a visa for there unless there were other circumstances as outlined above.
I fail to see where the complication is?

Inspectorfrost wrote:
Alot of these names are very common. Its easy to try make a connection on the flimsiest of bases, but the problem here is we might be trying to do a dot to dot with no numbers. i dont want to be doing no puzzles for years with a single clue.

sardinehater wrote:

Inspectorfrost wrote:

jd wrote:Good finds....It looks very likely that gerry mccann attended the 9th annual scientific sessions of the society for cardiovascular magnetic resonance: Miami, Florida, January 20-22, 2006......Is it possible that he could have signed the house contracts on say, the 18th? Seems strange that the house was sold while he was away in Miami an normally houses are 'sold' the day the contracts are signed

If he has 2 passports (which I also find strange) then obviously he would have had them both in PDL, but there are only 4 passports in 5A (5th being Maddies). Unless when gerry mccann went back to Rothley on May 19th he brought back another passport. None of this adds up

Its only a days difference. He could have signed before travelling and the buyer sign afterwards. Its not a big deal IMO. Theres powers of attorneys, faxes, 24 hour couriers and all sorts. I think I will bow out of here for now. As I think when GM signing off with his estate agents or lawyers in January 2006 for a new house has nothing to do with MM going missing in May 2007, its just another garden path to lose hours off your life for nothing.

I have to say I agree with that final comment.

But I would like to throw in a side swipe.

That passport number on that car rental agreement suggests only two possibilities to me. And I know which I am favouring.

The first is that the passport Gerry McCann showed to the rental clerk was fake. Why? Because you don't get passports issued on January 1st for the UK. It is as Portia pointed out a bank holiday.

The other option is that the passport number is just random, badly transcribed or even made up. I would like to ask people if they have, like me, ever been involved in hiring vehicles abroad? If they have they will know that often in less central offices the attention to detail is minimal.

Unless he was carrying a fake passport with a totally stupid date of issue then I think the second option is most likely.

And a more general point I would like to ask is if people really think that the PJ were so bad at their jobs that they didn't check out these details?

Personally, I think they were probably just as concerned as we are about the issues and resolved them.

jd wrote:Budget would have had to have seen the passport before accepting it on their car hire contract, so this suggests strongly gerry mccann did use another passport

Why he was still using the Queniborough address and carries the Queniborough address around with him in his wallet after a year and a half is also very mysterious

Portia wrote:

sardinehater wrote:

Inspectorfrost wrote:

jd wrote:Good finds....It looks very likely that gerry mccann attended the 9th annual scientific sessions of the society for cardiovascular magnetic resonance: Miami, Florida, January 20-22, 2006......Is it possible that he could have signed the house contracts on say, the 18th? Seems strange that the house was sold while he was away in Miami an normally houses are 'sold' the day the contracts are signed

If he has 2 passports (which I also find strange) then obviously he would have had them both in PDL, but there are only 4 passports in 5A (5th being Maddies). Unless when gerry mccann went back to Rothley on May 19th he brought back another passport. None of this adds up

Its only a days difference. He could have signed before travelling and the buyer sign afterwards. Its not a big deal IMO. Theres powers of attorneys, faxes, 24 hour couriers and all sorts. I think I will bow out of here for now. As I think when GM signing off with his estate agents or lawyers in January 2006 for a new house has nothing to do with MM going missing in May 2007, its just another garden path to lose hours off your life for nothing.

I have to say I agree with that final comment.

But I would like to throw in a side swipe.

That passport number on that car rental agreement suggests only two possibilities to me. And I know which I am favouring.

The first is that the passport Gerry McCann showed to the rental clerk was fake. Why? Because you don't get passports issued on January 1st for the UK. It is as Portia pointed out a bank holiday.

The other option is that the passport number is just random, badly transcribed or even made up. I would like to ask people if they have, like me, ever been involved in hiring vehicles abroad? If they have they will know that often in less central offices the attention to detail is minimal.

Unless he was carrying a fake passport with a totally stupid date of issue then I think the second option is most likely.

And a more general point I would like to ask is if people really think that the PJ were so bad at their jobs that they didn't check out these details?

Personally, I think they were probably just as concerned as we are about the issues and resolved them.

Did they notice the Scenics records being tampered with?

sardinehater wrote:]You seem to be missing something here. He isn't using a visa for the US in Jan 2006. That is a simple entry stamp.

It is a simple entry stamp for you..

Nor is he using a new passport for the US in Jan 2006. That passport he used for entry into Miami in Jan 2006 was nearly two years old.

And the date of the passport on the driving licence would suggest that it was applied for long after Jan 2006 as it appears to be from 2007.

But we have no way of knowing if he had two passports. That seems possible. Or when they were applied for. It could have been long before Jan 2006 or after that date.

No we don't. But the details of the passport on the car hire documents ie date and number are different to the passport details we know of as outlined at the begining of the thread by JD

I have had two passports now for over 23 years and each one just gets renewed separately.