McCanns Hire Car Contract

by jd 04.02.13 17:13

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The Queniborugh address gerry mccann used with Budget rent-a-car hire contract is false as he had moved out of this address some 17 months previous on 20th January 2006 and was living in Rothley

The DVLA number seems to be correct

But what is the "pass" number? 654646546 01-01-2007

This seems to be a passport number which looking at other contracts seems to be the obvious case, with the date of issue of the passport

Aside from January 1st being a bank holiday (New Years Day), this does not match his passport number in the PJ Files, which says 704******
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Nor are the issue and expiry dates on his passport which are
Issued on Sept 2nd 2004
Expires Sept 2nd 2014

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So what is 654646546 01-01-2007? Is it a false passport number? Does gerry mccann have 2 passports?

Also, the Queniborough house was sold on 20th January 2006...Interesting to note there is a stamp on gerry mccanns passport on 19th January 2006

by Smokeandmirrors 04.02.13 17:23

Those passport photos do not comply. I know it was mentioned a while back, but seeing them again reminded me. How do THEY get away with so much??

by monkey mind 04.02.13 17:33

This is really very interesting JD and most difficult to account for. First thoughts off the top of my head I can only think of two things in relation to the passport...
1. As you say, it indicates for some reason he may have two passports.
2. There’s a problem with the hire agreement, ie the rental agreement was filled out without a passport presented and any old stuff was filled in.

Is it possible this is not the original hire agreement? Which would obviously then bring the dates into question?

I seem to recall from somewhere that there is another oddity with that hire agreement in that the mileages don’t seem to tally or something similar??

by **PeterMac** 04.02.13 17:43

It certainly would bring it into question, and might provide the answer to a number of problematic areas. If they had hired it as soon as they knew they were going to stay in PdL for a considerable time - let us suppose after a couple of days when there was no sign of Madeleine, and hired it for a week at a time, which might be understandable, then after a couple of weeks they move on to a longer term rental agreement, perhaps open ended.
Same car. Same contamination in the boot,
and voila.
Same car, but perfectly properly a new agreement, copied, as you suggest, perhaps badly, from the other one, which itself was a copy of the first one and so on.

Damn dogs !

by jd 04.02.13 17:43

monkey mind wrote:This is really very interesting JD and most difficult to account for. First thoughts off the top of my head I can only think of two things in relation to the passport...
1. As you say, it indicates for some reason he may have two passports.
2. There’s a problem with the hire agreement, ie the rental agreement was filled out without a passport presented and any old stuff was filled in.

Is it possible this is not the original hire agreement? Which would obviously then bring the dates into question?

I seem to recall from somewhere that there is another oddity with that hire agreement in that the mileages don’t seem to tally or something similar??

All the hire car contracts have the same "passport" number on them. Don't forget around the same time the credit card theft at Waterloo which told us that gerry mccann carries the written Queniborough address in his wallet, and not the Rothley address . This some 17 months later

by jd 04.02.13 17:45

PeterMac wrote:It certainly would bring it into question, and might provide the answer to a number of problematic areas. If they had hired it as soon as they knew they were going to stay in PdL for a considerable time - let us suppose after a couple of days when there was no sign of Madeleine, and hired it for a week at a time, which might be understandable, then after a couple of weeks they move on to a longer term rental agreement, perhaps open ended.
Same car. Same contamination in the boot,
and voila.
Same car, but perfectly properly a new agreement, copied, as you suggest, perhaps badly, from the other one, which itself was a copy of the first one and so on.

Damn dogs !

This is very true, but why are they using a false address and what appears to be a false passport number too?

by monkey mind 04.02.13 17:51

Hmm, yes, all very ysterious.

What do you mean exactlyJD when you say all the hire car agreements? Do you mean renewals on the Renault Scenic? If so detail were probably just copied from one to another.

When I referred to mileage not tallying I meant in relaton to previous hirers of the scenic just before they took it on. I'm sure I read there was a problem there somewhere.

by jd 04.02.13 17:55

monkey mind wrote:Hmm, yes, all very ysterious.

What do you mean exactlyJD when you say all the hire car agreements? Do you mean renewals on the Renault Scenic? If so detail were probably just copied from one to another.

When I referred to mileage not tallying I meant in relaton to previous hirers of the scenic just before they took it on. I'm sure I read there was a problem there somewhere.

I was going through all the car hire contracts in the PJ files. I am sure details were copied from one to another, but these false details were given in the first place is my point...and important details too

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You are absolutely right there was a huge amount of millage they drove in that car

by jd 04.02.13 17:57

Can anyone make out where the date stamp on January 19th 2006 in gerry mccanns passport is from?

by Inspectorfrost 04.02.13 18:07

jd wrote:Can anyone make out where the date stamp on January 19th 2006 in gerry mccanns passport is from?

I think MIA is Miami

by david_uk 04.02.13 18:08

Is it not possible he had not updated the address on his drivers licence yet so just put the same old address to save any confusion?. Or it could have been something as petty as just wrong address so he wouldn't receive any comebacks! Last time I hired a car they sent me a letter over a week later with a bill for fuel! needless to say they got a mouthful over the phone considering they gave me the car with 3/4 full tank and I gave it back with a full tank!!!

by monkey mind 04.02.13 18:11

jd wrote:
monkey mind wrote:Hmm, yes, all very ysterious.

What do you mean exactlyJD when you say all the hire car agreements? Do you mean renewals on the Renault Scenic? If so detail were probably just copied from one to another.

When I referred to mileage not tallying I meant in relaton to previous hirers of the scenic just before they took it on. I'm sure I read there was a problem there somewhere.

I was going through all the car hire contracts in the PJ files. I am sure details were copied from one to another, but these false details were given in the first place is my point...and important details too

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You are absolutely right there was a huge amount of millage they drove in that car

Yes agreed, I was making the same point, the first rental agreement is the problem.
I'm afraid I can't see those agreement documents or read them. Do we know who had that Renault scenic for the week 28/4 onwards, the week she went missing. The PJ must have checked that. If so, what is the passport number for that week?

by david_uk 04.02.13 18:13

Inspectorfrost wrote:
jd wrote:Can anyone make out where the date stamp on January 19th 2006 in gerry mccanns passport is from?

I think MIA is Miami

There is a large annual cardiology conference every year in Miami

by **Jill Havern** 04.02.13 18:14

david_uk wrote:Is it not possible he had not updated the address on his drivers licence yet so just put the same old address to save any confusion?. Or it could have been something as petty as just wrong address so he wouldn't receive any comebacks! Last time I hired a car they sent me a letter over a week later with a bill for fuel! needless to say they got a mouthful over the phone considering they gave me the car with 3/4 full tank and I gave it back with a full tank!!!

As PeterMac pointed out on another thread, to have the wrong address makes the insurance invalid - and it can also cost you £1000 fine for having the wrong address on your licence. And as the McCann's weren't able to afford their mortgage payments after Maddie went missing I would think £1000 was a lot of money for them back then.

by Guest 04.02.13 19:04

PeterMac wrote:It certainly would bring it into question, and might provide the answer to a number of problematic areas. If they had hired it as soon as they knew they were going to stay in PdL for a considerable time - let us suppose after a couple of days when there was no sign of Madeleine, and hired it for a week at a time, which might be understandable, then after a couple of weeks they move on to a longer term rental agreement, perhaps open ended.
Same car. Same contamination in the boot,
and voila.
Same car, but perfectly properly a new agreement, copied, as you suggest, perhaps badly, from the other one, which itself was a copy of the first one and so on.

Damn dogs !

Peter Mac, let's see if I understand correctly.

Could this mean that the Scenic was not rented weeks after the event, but in reality much earlier, maybe even at the time of arrival (end of april)?
And this fact being hidden by the use of a false passport and a false adress?

Could it even be, that GM was in Portugal before, hiring a car there at that time, using that passport and his then current (Qeniborough) address and, needing a car like the Scenic immediately upon or shortly after arrival, returned to the place where he had previously shown his documents. And that the fleetowners let him have the Scenic without asking for his papers because they already knew him and had been provided with his data at the previous occasion?

If that should surface, what then with the vehement defense stating that the Scenic was hired only so and so many weeks after Maddies disappearance, and therefore could not possibly have been contaminated with her hairs and 'bodily fluids' after her disappearance on May 3rd (?)

If the Scenic was available from day One, maybe parked out of sight but available, then what?

Might this not explain how the weird Sagres trip could be executed, with three (?) children and a twin buggy, within the stated narrow time frame? There is no public transport from PdL to Sagres, or is there? And even the traffic to and from Burgau.

If the car was -say- parked at Murats on May 3rd, that might explain someone carrying Maddies limp body in that direction, not leaving a trace on the Murats property. Not saying it was, of course.

by jd 04.02.13 19:09

Inspectorfrost wrote:
jd wrote:Can anyone make out where the date stamp on January 19th 2006 in gerry mccanns passport is from?

I think MIA is Miami

Thanks. Its looks that this is probably it. Which means his passport was stamped in Miami a day before the contracts on the house were officially signed. Not sure what this says, just piecing it together at the moment

by jd 04.02.13 19:12

The Scenic according to the PJ files was hired out before the mccanns from 8th May 2007 for a week (I think it was a week). Just by coincidence by a Michael Wright, but not the same gerry mccann Michael Wright. This Michael Wright hired the car from the 8th whilst being in PDL on a golfing trip with friends

by bristow 04.02.13 19:17

jd wrote:The Scenic according to the PJ files was hired out before the mccanns from 8th May 2007 for a week (I think it was a week). Just by coincidence by a Michael Wright, but not the same gerry mccann Michael Wright. This Michael Wright hired the car from the 8th whilst being in PDL on a golfing trip with friends

Too many coincidences to be true, all the time with this case.
Glad you're back posting jd, I like your investigations.

by Inspectorfrost 04.02.13 19:19

@ David/JD, thats probably correct.

@MM the previous driver had a different pass number.

For general reference, this is a graph which shows who had the car and when. I think the top box shows when the car was rented and by who and the bottom boxes show when it was returned. The car lay unbooked from 12th April to 8th May, the longest unbooked period. probably nothing, I just noticed it.

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ETA

JD/Bristow, the hire of the car from 8th May for a week was by a John Brown with additional driver MW, the two MWs having different driving licences so they can't be the same person.

by jd 04.02.13 19:30

bristow wrote:
jd wrote:The Scenic according to the PJ files was hired out before the mccanns from 8th May 2007 for a week (I think it was a week). Just by coincidence by a Michael Wright, but not the same gerry mccann Michael Wright. This Michael Wright hired the car from the 8th whilst being in PDL on a golfing trip with friends
Too many coincidences to be true, all the time with this case.
Glad you're back posting jd, I like your investigations.

Thanks Bristow thumbsup

The "Michael Wrights" on the face of it do seem to be 2 different people which the PJ checked out both of them

The mileage:

The car milometer reading on 27 May, the date the car was hired, was 3114
km. By the time the car milometer was read again on 23 September, the reading was 14443, meaning that in those four months or so, 11,332 km had been clocked up - just under 7,000 miles. The mileage per day was around 60 miles; around 420 a week.

by Guest 04.02.13 19:30

Inspectorfrost wrote:
jd wrote:Can anyone make out where the date stamp on January 19th 2006 in gerry mccanns passport is from?

I think MIA is Miami

Yes, that's correct. So what was small town doctor from Qeniborough doing in Miami? Who paid for his flight & stay there?

And who signed the contract on the house?

Strangely, this reminds me of the policemen stealing deceased childrens identities, which truly horrible information came to light only recently.

Who IS Gerry McCann?

by **Nina** 04.02.13 19:37

Could that passport number be Michael Wrights passport number as the second driver and not GM's?

by jd 04.02.13 19:55

Nina wrote:Could that passport number be Michael Wrights passport number as the second driver and not GM's?

I doubt it. On other contracts without Michael Wright on it, is the same "passport" number...

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by **Nina** 04.02.13 19:59

jd wrote:
Nina wrote:Could that passport number be Michael Wrights passport number as the second driver and not GM's?

I doubt it. On other contracts without Michael Wright on it, is the same "passport" number...

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Thank you jd, can tick that one off then. Is it KH's passport number?

by Guest 04.02.13 19:59

Inspectorfrost wrote:@ David/JD, thats probably correct.

@MM the previous driver had a different pass number.

For general reference, this is a graph which shows who had the car and when. I think the top box shows when the car was rented and by who and the bottom boxes show when it was returned. The car lay unbooked from 12th April to 8th May, the longest unbooked period. probably nothing, I just noticed it.

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ETA

JD/Bristow, the hire of the car from 8th May for a week was by a John Brown with additional driver MW, the two MWs having different driving licences so they can't be the same person.

Wasn't a John Brown a brother of Gordon? The one GM worked with on the nuclear research thing? Comare, or what was it?

And why, if GM can be supplied with 2 passports, as it seems, could not a Michael Wright be fitted out wth 2 drivers licenses?

by jd 04.02.13 20:02

Nina wrote:
jd wrote:
Nina wrote:Could that passport number be Michael Wrights passport number as the second driver and not GM's?

I doubt it. On other contracts without Michael Wright on it, is the same "passport" number...

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Thank you jd, can tick that one off then. Is it KH's passport number?

No its not, I even looked at Maddies (you never know). This number seems to be totally taken from thin air and with the oddest of issue dates too, 1st January 2007

by jd 04.02.13 20:05

Portia wrote:
Inspectorfrost wrote:@ David/JD, thats probably correct.

@MM the previous driver had a different pass number.

For general reference, this is a graph which shows who had the car and when. I think the top box shows when the car was rented and by who and the bottom boxes show when it was returned. The car lay unbooked from 12th April to 8th May, the longest unbooked period. probably nothing, I just noticed it.

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ETA

JD/Bristow, the hire of the car from 8th May for a week was by a John Brown with additional driver MW, the two MWs having different driving licences so they can't be the same person.

Wasn't a John Brown a brother of Gordon? The one GM worked with on the nuclear research thing? Comare, or what was it?

And why, if GM can be supplied with 2 passports, as it seems, could not a Michael Wright be fitted out wth 2 drivers licenses?

Brown has two brothers, John Brown and Andrew Brown. Andrew has been Head of Media Relations in the UK for the French-owned utility company EDF Energy since 2004.[140] Brown is also the brother-in-law of environmental journalist Clare Rewcastle Brown. Brown wrote a piece for The Independent, supporting Clare's current environmental efforts on behalf of Sarawak.[141]

I didn't realise gordys real name is James Brown. ....James Gordon Brown (born 20 February 1951)....Like tony bliar using his middle name

by Inspectorfrost 04.02.13 20:13

@Portia
GM is a cardiology consultant/researcher, he would have gone to these kind of conferences and paid for by his employer or a n others who wanted him there

@JD
Even though MW is not named as an additional driver in that copy from August, the details may well have been copied over from previous rental paperwork from the initial rental and his name just removed for that period.
But
A related subject is that the times he was named as additional driver do not tally with his statements on when he was actually put on as one.

by Guest 04.02.13 20:15

Inspectorfrost wrote:
jd wrote:Can anyone make out where the date stamp on January 19th 2006 in gerry mccanns passport is from?

I think MIA is Miami

Who issued GMs passport?

by monkey mind 04.02.13 20:19

I find it difficult to accept that the Renault Scenic would have been unrented for an entire month - a month which happens to cover the week the McCanns arrived. The rental company had to return it to Renault Europe as I recall hence their ultimatum for the McCanns to return it or purchase it. Likely it was leased from Renault Europe so they could hardly afford for it to sit idle for an entire month.

Do the mileages tally at each end of that period?