Re: McCanns Hire Car Contract

by Woofer 09.02.13 18:01

ok Inspector Frost - yes, I was referring to the graph, then to the box underneath the graph. You are right, only I couldn`t understand why a forum member doing a graph would include `rental` and `devolution` but maybe there was a reason. Thanks for explaining.

by jd 09.02.13 18:07

InPortimão wrote:
Not strictly true. I live in Portugal, but have a UK licence. As long as you can still be contacted via the UK address (which is my case is my parents' house) all you need to do is register your licence with the IMTT out here. You don't legally have to exchange the licence. You then carry an additional piece of paperwork with your licence, which contains both addresses.

Keep going, this is fascinating stuff!

Thanks for the info. I would only say that murat was not living at the Suffolk address, it was his ex wife by herself in her name I would say. It looks though like he had 'financial transactions' going to this address in the UK. Bit like gerry mccann using the old Queniborough address rather than the actual address he was living at. I don't see why they are using different addresses to where they are living

by Dr What 09.02.13 18:08

Now, it may be that all of these oddities/co-incidences/confusions have a perfectly innocent explanation.
But I'm sure that the Portuguese investigation uncovered these confusions as well.I think I can start to appreciate exactly how they must have felt when presumably, they tried to get information passed to them from the UK Police in an attempt to explain these issues ie credit card history etc ...only to be greeted with a stony silence.

by Inspectorfrost 09.02.13 18:08

Jean wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The address is that where he once lived with his ex-wife. It's just another case I think of not having updated the licence address and that being used on the rental agreement.

That's what I thought too.

@JD, you can drive in any EU country with a British licence.
As I said before they must just copy whatever address is on the licence when recording the details. its not as if GM put that address anywhere else, He used his current address on the holiday booking.e.g.
@Woofer, no problem. They were probably just being thorough.

by jd 09.02.13 18:10

Dr What wrote:Now, it may be that all of these oddities/co-incidences/confusions have a perfectly innocent explanation.
But I'm sure that the Portuguese investigation uncovered these confusions as well.I think I can start to appreciate exactly how they must have felt when presumably, they tried to get information passed to them from the UK Police in an attempt to explain these issues ie credit card history etc ...only to be greeted with a stony silence.

Yes exactly. I am sure had they been given half of what they requested they would have been able to solve this case 6 years ago! Is there a reason why the Home Office refused to give informations?

Money/finance are normally the root of things

by jd 09.02.13 18:12

Inspectorfrost wrote:
@JD, you can drive in any EU country with a British licence.

But why with an address he is not living at?

by Lady-Heather 09.02.13 18:13

jd wrote:
Lady-Heather wrote:

What is it with these people? I can't make out the address but the postcode NR20 3HL is an address in Hockering, Norfolk. Didn't RM live at Casa Lilliana?

What I'm thinking jd, is that RM may have lent his car to 'the family involved in the search', which may have been fine for a week or so as he would likely have had access to his mother's car (a VW, IIRC). But then something happened the following weekend which necessited the urgent hire of the Getz, as above.

If I remember correctly, robert murat had a car anyway and why this hire one was suspicious. He had the green van and also another car?

Yes IIRC RM had a Skoda, and a VW van of some description which his mother was using.
This is the news article, partly reproduced in the link above in Jean's post which describes how a witness said he needed the hire car as his was being used in the search: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by jd 09.02.13 18:18

Lady-Heather wrote:
Yes IIRC RM had a Skoda, and a VW van of some description which his mother was using.
This is the news article, partly reproduced in the link above in Jean's post which describes how a witness said he needed the hire car as his was being used in the search: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"Mr Murat said he wanted to hire a car because his own was being used to help in searches for "the missing little girl". The Hyundai, which was still in his drive when he was arrested on Monday, was searched along with a green Volkswagen van."

Which going back to what you originally were saying....Who was using his car for these so called 'searches'? cameron re mccanns? This is highly suspicious and I get a sense of panic going on 'behind the scenes' at this particular time period

by Inspectorfrost 09.02.13 18:18

jd wrote:
Inspectorfrost wrote:
@JD, you can drive in any EU country with a British licence.
But why with an address he is not living at?

Yes, sorry, please see my edited previous post.

by Spaniel 09.02.13 18:24

It is perfectly feasible he has an Irish and GB passport. However, he would have had to sit a test in Ireland to gain an Irish Driving Licence, so not likely.

by jd 09.02.13 18:26

Inspectorfrost wrote:
jd wrote:
Inspectorfrost wrote:
@JD, you can drive in any EU country with a British licence.
But why with an address he is not living at?

Yes, sorry, please see my edited previous post. As I said before they must just copy whatever address is on the licence when recording the details. its not as if GM put that address anywhere else, He used his current address on the holiday booking.e.g

His DVLA was issued on 21st December 1995...We would need to trace back where he was living on this date. Off memory it might have been in Suffolk and around the Bernard Matthews days, but am not sure if it was this address/town in Suffolk. I 'think' that his ex wife moved to this address after she left PDL when she got homesick a few years previous. Will need to check this through

by Lady-Heather 09.02.13 18:26

jd wrote:
"Mr Murat said he wanted to hire a car because his own was being used to help in searches for "the missing little girl". The Hyundai, which was still in his drive when he was arrested on Monday, was searched along with a green Volkswagen van."

Which going back to what you originally were saying....Who was using his car for these so called 'searches'? cameron re mccanns? This is highly suspicious and I get a sense of panic going on 'behind the scenes' at this particular time period

Yes I agree 100% jd. IMO - based on what the car hire witness said, plus Cameron himself, I think Murat lent his car to Sandy Cameron.

by Spaniel 09.02.13 18:50

Lady-Heather wrote:
jd wrote:
"Mr Murat said he wanted to hire a car because his own was being used to help in searches for "the missing little girl". The Hyundai, which was still in his drive when he was arrested on Monday, was searched along with a green Volkswagen van."

Which going back to what you originally were saying....Who was using his car for these so called 'searches'? cameron re mccanns? This is highly suspicious and I get a sense of panic going on 'behind the scenes' at this particular time period
Yes I agree 100% jd. IMO - based on what the car hire witness said, plus Cameron himself, I think Murat lent his car to Sandy Cameron.

Remember Murat's car went in for repairs or some such.

by jd 09.02.13 19:13

Lady-Heather wrote:
jd wrote:
"Mr Murat said he wanted to hire a car because his own was being used to help in searches for "the missing little girl". The Hyundai, which was still in his drive when he was arrested on Monday, was searched along with a green Volkswagen van."

Which going back to what you originally were saying....Who was using his car for these so called 'searches'? cameron re mccanns? This is highly suspicious and I get a sense of panic going on 'behind the scenes' at this particular time period
Yes I agree 100% jd. IMO - based on what the car hire witness said, plus Cameron himself, I think Murat lent his car to Sandy Cameron.

Taking it on face value that a "friend' was using his own car for the searches, it does beg the question why the "friend" could not hire the car themselves? The "friend' has the correct documents to be able to drive a car in PDL so couldn't he/she have just hired a car for the searches. Must be a good friend that he/she uses murats car and then murat forks out the money from his own pocket as well

Did murat ever explain "why he was in such a hurry"....He's always in a hurry....dashing back to PDL on May 1st booking the flight at midnight hours before taking it, in a hurry for emergency business meetings even though he was spending his time as a translator with the PJ and/or with the other holidaymakers at OC. Can't have been that important business to urgently fly back for then

by jd 09.02.13 20:46

Murat needed hire car in a hurry Daily Mirror

Vanessa Allen And Martin Fricker In Praia Da Luz, 18/05/2007

POLICE hunting missing Madeleine McCann are probing claims that suspect Robert Murat hurriedly hired a car two days before he was arrested - despite already having two vehicles.

Hire firm worker Maria Rocio says Murat rang her on Saturday and asked to rent a Hyundai Getz for three days, insisting he needed it immediately and could not wait.

Maria added: "Robert said to me, 'I need to rent a car for myself because the English people who are looking for the little girl need to borrow my car. They need to put information posters on it.'"

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So.....he hires a car because people he does not know want to put "posters" on his car.......Right!!! wow

I hope he paid for the posters like everyone else!!!

by Guest 09.02.13 20:53

Yes, interesting jd, I can remember somewhere in the back of my mind they interviewed Jenny Murat about that on TV, long since whooshed I suppose. Here is more about Murat and the car rental.....

Madeleine McCann Suspect Robert Murat's Car Rental Again Questioned

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by jd 09.02.13 20:59

candyfloss wrote:Yes, interesting jd, I can remember somewhere in the back of my mind they interviewed Jenny Murat about that on TV, long since whooshed I suppose. Here is more about Murat and the car rental.....

Madeleine McCann Suspect Robert Murat's Car Rental Again Questioned

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Thanks CF..... "Now a report from Anorak notes that he used his ex-wife address to rent the car."...Question is were they living there in 1995? Sure it will be easy to find out big grin

You just know the reasons for this car hire is just lies!!!

Lovely "friends" murat has...just a few days after spending his own money to hire another car, so his "friends" can put posters on his, they are giving statements to the PJ trying to get him arrested for their missing daughter....Nice!!!

by Ribisl 09.02.13 22:09

Wrt 'lovely friends' I am wondering if the T7 weren't let in on all the facts at the beginning. It's pretty obvious imo from his earlier response to the PJ's question whether he had known RM that Gerry and Murat were well acquainted prior to this holiday. If RM was the one who was asked to fly in to help after Madeleine's death, then he could have been seen by JT carrying her away to her house before GM took her down Smiths' way to store in a temporary hiding place arranged by RM.

We know that not all of GM, JW and JT can be telling the truth about not seeing each other in the street outside 5A. But assuming JW and GM were on the far side of the street as JW says, with JW facing away from JT, then he would be telling the truth when he says he didn't see JT. If JT was walking up the near side of the street that was not well lit and if she had been drinking, it is possible that she really didn't see GM and JW on the other side, especially if she was looking straight ahead towards the 'eggman'. On the other hand, GM, who would have been facing in JT's direction, would deny seeing JT because she wasn't supposed to be there to see RM carrying Madeleine away. The three friends who placed RM near the apartment on the 3rd could also have been telling the inconvenient truth for the McCanns.

All was settled and financial compensation agreed when RM met Kennedy and the lawyers, and T9 at the hotel in Rothley.

I am sure someone will find holes in this scenario but it's just about plausible to me here and now.

by Lady-Heather 09.02.13 22:58

Curiously..
"---- Questioned he states that he rented a grey Hyundai car on Saturday, 12 May, from the Auto Rent firm in Praia da Luz. He thinks that he picked up the car in the afternoon of that day. This car was returned by his mother on Tuesday 15th of that month. Basically he used the car in the area of Lagos and Portimão. He did not leave the Algarve with it. He does not remember how many kilometres he drove with the car, however he estimates about 100 to 200 at most. He informs having rented it because his mother was using the VW in the information table [she had set up] and the Skoda was in the workshop and he had no other means of transport. Confronted with the fact that there is information that that car had done 700 km during the rental period, he says this is not true. He denies having gone so many kilometres in that car, adding that to have more mileage than what he indicated that this will be an error of whoever read the mileage [odometer], the defendant was the only person to use the car."

So if the km reading was not an error, where did that car go in its missing 500km?

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by Inspectorfrost 10.02.13 0:17

jd wrote:

His DVLA was issued on 21st December 1995...We would need to trace back where he was living on this date. Off memory it might have been in Suffolk and around the Bernard Matthews days, but am not sure if it was this address/town in Suffolk. I 'think' that his ex wife moved to this address after she left PDL when she got homesick a few years previous. Will need to check this through

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see In Detail Post

Norfolk, if you click on the link to mccannfiles you put on here earlier it gives a backround. In that it says he met Dawn in 1992,he got married in 2000. it goes on to say they bought a house at the address that the car rental agreement shows. I assume this was in 2001 as a search in zoopla shows that year as the first sale. his licence was issued 1995, wherever he was living at the time, now when you inform them of a change of address, does the licence issued date change? If not, then his address on the car rental agreement was correct if he had informed dvla of a change. Yes, doing my head in too now. But I think that sounds correct.
And posts saying he used his ex wifes house adress as if dodgy are not true as it was his house
too
lol!

As for the Mirror article, I wouldtake it with a pinch if salt, at that time RM was demonised by the media, I would also like to know why the car rental womans call to the police about RM is not inthe files. IE there is not alot there to back up Allen and Frickers article, reaks of he was impatient in a hurry to hire a car dodgy character and get rid of child or a body!

by Guest 10.02.13 9:49

Lady-Heather wrote:Curiously..
"---- Questioned he states that he rented a grey Hyundai car on Saturday, 12 May, from the Auto Rent firm in Praia da Luz. He thinks that he picked up the car in the afternoon of that day. This car was returned by his mother on Tuesday 15th of that month. Basically he used the car in the area of Lagos and Portimão. He did not leave the Algarve with it. He does not remember how many kilometres he drove with the car, however he estimates about 100 to 200 at most. He informs having rented it because his mother was using the VW in the information table [she had set up] and the Skoda was in the workshop and he had no other means of transport. Confronted with the fact that there is information that that car had done 700 km during the rental period, he says this is not true. He denies having gone so many kilometres in that car, adding that to have more mileage than what he indicated that this will be an error of whoever read the mileage [odometer], the defendant was the only person to use the car."

So if the km reading was not an error, where did that car go in its missing 500km?

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Strange, I was looking for something yesterday and came accross this on websleuths forum, the link of course does not work now, but according to this report, Murat went back to UK that weekend to see his wife in Norfolk just for the weekend??

Posted 15/5/2007 4.10 am

He told journalists that he was interested in the case of the missing girl because he has a four-year-old daughter of his own who looks similar to Madeleine.

He is believed to be separated from his wife, who is thought to live in Norfolk with their daughter. He has just returned to Portugal after visiting them over the weekend."

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Interesting comment from poster underneath this article.

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