Re: McCanns Hire Car Contract

by **tigger** 06.02.13 8:22

Inspectorfrost wrote:tigger it is just not true you have to be a high flying politician or medic to have two passports. And let us not forget that we cant take as proof that GM had two passports off of some car rental receipt. But even if he did, why would it be suspicious? I cant seem to find an underlying concrete thread to all this.

As for LP not teling the PJ there was a CAT file, perhaps they never asked. It only came out when their backround checks were asked for in 2008.

I quote from your post which I answered: ' GM may not have been a business man in the strict sense but as an expert in medicine would likely travel to various countries for their conferences inhis research speciality. ' unquote

I can still see no reason why he would need two passports, according to the book he didn't travel that much, a few European countries, both of them in NZ, golfing in Portugal, holiday in Mallorca, conference in France. Most of those wouldn't even merit a stamp in your passport.
The reason I keep harping on about this is the misconception that Gerry was at the forefront of his profession. Imo his written work only just makes it above A level.
His career doesn't seem to have been going anywhere much at all. Marketing seems to be his forte however, that's been a big success.

I take the point about the visas made by RoyRogers? earlier, but that is exactly what I've already argued. The business/visa/warring countries angle does not apply here.

Re the CAT file: this should have been divulged to the PJ right at the start, as indeed should the credit records, Madeleine's health records and so on.
In any case, where there is an investigation ALL deviations from the norm should be taken into account, there seem to be lot of these in the McCann case.
If this were a graph, curve-fitting would be next to impossible.

by russiandoll 06.02.13 11:12

I would only expect to read something this convoluted and obtuse if it all revolved around witness protection, secrecy at all costs.
All so very strange and I suspect, very ugly.

what's that saying.....the ugly truth? I'll bet it is.

by david_uk 06.02.13 11:30

Inspectorfrost wrote:Very very lax i agree to not inform the dvla of a change of address but i know many people who are so wrapped up intheir work or are just oblivious to such stuff they leave things for years, it wasnt as if its a changing your gas bill address or something like that

Its a long stretch for me to think GM was PURPOSEFULLY using false dvla details for some nefarious reasons, just benefit of the doubt seems ok here for me, no red flags flying

Agreed, I have known people to leave it much longer before they remember or get round to changing their address with the DVLA

by jd 06.02.13 12:20

david_uk wrote:
Inspectorfrost wrote:Very very lax i agree to not inform the dvla of a change of address but i know many people who are so wrapped up intheir work or are just oblivious to such stuff they leave things for years, it wasnt as if its a changing your gas bill address or something like that

Its a long stretch for me to think GM was PURPOSEFULLY using false dvla details for some nefarious reasons, just benefit of the doubt seems ok here for me, no red flags flying

Agreed, I have known people to leave it much longer before they remember or get round to changing their address with the DVLA

Again...this is not about the DVLA...We know this has the Queniborough address..... but a 2nd passport and one which was issued on New Years Day and the giving of a false address

by Dr What 06.02.13 13:32

jd
I agree with what you said earlier.....peoples actions happen for a reason,nothing happens by accident.

Do we actually know who bought their previous house in Queniborough?

by Newintown 06.02.13 14:53

jd wrote:
david_uk wrote:
Inspectorfrost wrote:Very very lax i agree to not inform the dvla of a change of address but i know many people who are so wrapped up intheir work or are just oblivious to such stuff they leave things for years, it wasnt as if its a changing your gas bill address or something like that

Its a long stretch for me to think GM was PURPOSEFULLY using false dvla details for some nefarious reasons, just benefit of the doubt seems ok here for me, no red flags flying

Agreed, I have known people to leave it much longer before they remember or get round to changing their address with the DVLA

Again...this is not about the DVLA...We know this has the Queniborough address..... but a 2nd passport and one which was issued on New Years Day and the giving of a false address

I would have thought that there were terms and conditions on the car rental agreement stating that it was against the Law to give a false address.

by jd 06.02.13 15:06

Dr What wrote:jd
I agree with what you said earlier.....peoples actions happen for a reason,nothing happens by accident.

Do we actually know who bought their previous house in Queniborough?

This I would love to know...Anyone registered on 192.com? You can find out on there if you have credits

by jd 06.02.13 15:08

Newintown wrote:
I would have thought that there were terms and conditions on the car rental agreement stating that it was against the Law to give a false address.

Exactly, and especially knowingly...The address is false, the DVLA is out of date.....Then gods knows about the mysterious passport and what this contains

by Inspectorfrost 06.02.13 23:19

@Tigger

Sorry for late reply and I am not sure how a thread on a car rental contract has ended up with issues about the CATS system

The Cat system is generic, or neutral if you like, any crime involving a child will generate a file. It is also used for domestic violence. i dont know when the LP opened this, probably straight away. But it isnt proof of anything by being in existence.

Regarding the passports, I will bow out of that discussion until I see proof that Gery had a second passport. Regarding DVLA driving license and using a false adress, will bow out off that one too. If I gave my driving licence to a car company with my old address on it becUse I hadnt been bothered to update it yet I wouldnt really care. Like it matters much.

by Ribisl 07.02.13 11:11

I haven't really been following this thread but I see nothing unusual, let alone sinister, regarding the old address on the driver's licence. Most people would wait till the next renewal date to inform DVLA of any change of address.

I have had two passports for the reason mentioned by other posters although I find it rather unusual for someone to carry both on a single destination holiday. If Gerry had two passports in Portugal and if all three children had one of their own, then that makes six. Even assuming PJ had taken Madeleine's passport away, they should still have had five passports in their possession, not four?

by **tigger** 07.02.13 11:33

Inspectorfrost wrote:@Tigger

Sorry for late reply and I am not sure how a thread on a car rental contract has ended up with issues about the CATS system

The Cat system is generic, or neutral if you like, any crime involving a child will generate a file. It is also used for domestic violence. i dont know when the LP opened this, probably straight away. But it isnt proof of anything by being in existence.

Regarding the passports, I will bow out of that discussion until I see proof that Gery had a second passport. Regarding DVLA driving license and using a false adress, will bow out off that one too. If I gave my driving licence to a car company with my old address on it becUse I hadnt been bothered to update it yet I wouldnt really care. Like it matters much.

Once more, when a new file is created, one can expect a document in that file to reference details of the person in whose name the files has been created and at the very least a description of the type of case under consideration. E.g. suspected violence, homosexuality, paedophilia etc. It is the point that the file is empty, not that it exists which is suspicious.

None of the points above - out of date address, two passports, loss of wallet, refusal of credit card transactions, driving licence etc. are each on their own particularly striking. But all of these related to one person, a central figure in an unsolved crime, would need investigating imo.
That is the point.

by Newintown 07.02.13 17:39

Inspectorfrost wrote:@Tigger

Sorry for late reply and I am not sure how a thread on a car rental contract has ended up with issues about the CATS system

The Cat system is generic, or neutral if you like, any crime involving a child will generate a file. It is also used for domestic violence. i dont know when the LP opened this, probably straight away. But it isnt proof of anything by being in existence.

Regarding the passports, I will bow out of that discussion until I see proof that Gery had a second passport. Regarding DVLA driving license and using a false adress, will bow out off that one too. If I gave my driving licence to a car company with my old address on it becUse I hadnt been bothered to update it yet I wouldnt really care. Like it matters much.

Well you might care if you were in a serious accident with the hire car and you had put an old address on the car hire documents. The insurance would be invalid and if you'd really hurt someone in the accident you may be liable for a huge compensation pay out, which would not be covered by insurance. You would also be in trouble for signing the paperwork knowing you'd given a false address.

by Inspectorfrost 07.02.13 21:41

@Newintown
My comment that it hardly matters was made in the context of what happened to Madeleine, not anything to do with technically breaking the law, possible accidents, insurance issues

@Tigger, OK, thanks. Perhaps there was nothing to put in the file thats why it was empty. It was a repository for possible future information. I will leave it at that.

by **tigger** 07.02.13 22:08

Inspectorfrost wrote:@Newintown
My comment that it hardly matters was made in the context of what happened to Madeleine, not anything to do with technically breaking the law, possible accidents, insurance issues

@Tigger, OK, thanks. Perhaps there was nothing to put in the file thats why it was empty. It was a repository for possible future information. I will leave it at that.

You may leave it at that, I've drawn my own conclusions.

by Inspectorfrost 07.02.13 22:19

tigger wrote:
Inspectorfrost wrote:@Newintown
My comment that it hardly matters was made in the context of what happened to Madeleine, not anything to do with technically breaking the law, possible accidents, insurance issues

@Tigger, OK, thanks. Perhaps there was nothing to put in the file thats why it was empty. It was a repository for possible future information. I will leave it at that.

You may leave it at that, I've drawn my own conclusions.

What conclusions?

by **tigger** 07.02.13 22:31

Inspectorfrost wrote:
tigger wrote:
Inspectorfrost wrote:@Newintown
My comment that it hardly matters was made in the context of what happened to Madeleine, not anything to do with technically breaking the law, possible accidents, insurance issues

@Tigger, OK, thanks. Perhaps there was nothing to put in the file thats why it was empty. It was a repository for possible future information. I will leave it at that.

You may leave it at that, I've drawn my own conclusions.

What conclusions?

Crikey! That contents have been removed as I stated before.

by Inspectorfrost 07.02.13 22:38

tigger wrote:
Inspectorfrost wrote:
tigger wrote:
Inspectorfrost wrote:@Newintown
My comment that it hardly matters was made in the context of what happened to Madeleine, not anything to do with technically breaking the law, possible accidents, insurance issues

@Tigger, OK, thanks. Perhaps there was nothing to put in the file thats why it was empty. It was a repository for possible future information. I will leave it at that.

You may leave it at that, I've drawn my own conclusions.

What conclusions?

Crikey! That contents have been removed as I stated before.

How do you know contents have been removed? Are you saying you need content to start a file? You dont. Just a reference number linked to a case.

by Dr What 07.02.13 22:44

And what case would that be?

by Inspectorfrost 07.02.13 22:55

Dr What wrote:And what case would that be?

The case of missing Maddie Mccann? cause unknown?

by Dr What 07.02.13 23:02

Wouldn't the file have said

"Maddie McCann missing child.Cause unknown"..........rather than nothing at all?

by Inspectorfrost 07.02.13 23:08

Dr What wrote:Wouldn't the file have said

"Maddie McCann missing child.Cause unknown"..........rather than nothing at all?

Listen, I dont want to argue, I dont know what the file was called or if there was ever anything in it or not, it was obviously tagged to the case for the LP to tell the PJ it existed when the PJ asked for backround checks

by Dr What 07.02.13 23:18

No argument at all.
We all want to know the same thing.Why did the file exist in the first place....and what was in it?

by Inspectorfrost 07.02.13 23:28

Dr What wrote:No argument at all.
We all want to know the same thing.Why did the file exist in the first place....and what was in it?

The file was created because there was a crime involving a child Im sure referenced

As to if there should have been something in it, apart from the main reference to the crime I dont know I not police LOL
perhaps you should question those that say GM had a sex offenders entry in 2002 and ask them to prove this

Out of this discussion now but will read to see the connection between an old driving license and some supposed second passport and gerry being a paedo

...

by Dr What 07.02.13 23:33

Pity you could not have contributed more to the discussion.

Perhaps it was getting too difficult to debate.

by Inspectorfrost 07.02.13 23:39

Dr What wrote:Pity you could not have contributed more to the discussion.

Perhaps it was getting too difficult to debate.

Yes it was, in the light of no one saying directly what they thought or posting of any facts to be suspicious of this file, I did my best from what I understood to be the case, cant do better than that, sorry

by Newintown 08.02.13 2:38

Inspectorfrost wrote:
Dr What wrote:Pity you could not have contributed more to the discussion.

Perhaps it was getting too difficult to debate.

Yes it was, in the light of no one saying directly what they thought or posting of any facts to be suspicious of this file, I did my best from what I understood to be the case, cant do better than that, sorry

You seem to be very good at backtracking when you're losing the debate. So if you're saying that a file would have been opened on G McCann because there was a crime involving a child, it would be interesting to know if there are also empty files on the parents of Sarah Payne, Ben Needham and April Jones.

You also backtracked on your comment regarding not caring about whether you used a false address for a hire car -

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Yesterday at 7:41 pm

@Newintown
My comment that it hardly matters was made in the context of what happened to Madeleine, not anything to do with technically breaking the law, possible accidents, insurance issues

@Tigger, OK, thanks. Perhaps there was nothing to put in the file thats why it was empty. It was a repository for possible future information. I will leave it at that.

In fact what you originally said was -

Regarding the passports, I will bow out of that discussion until I see proof that Gery had a second passport. Regarding DVLA driving license and using a false adress, will bow out off that one too. If I gave my driving licence to a car company with my old address on it becUse I hadnt been bothered to update it yet I wouldnt really care. Like it matters much.

**************************

You come across in most of your posts as an apologist for the McCanns in always trying to stifle debate.

by Inspectorfrost 08.02.13 2:46

Newintown wrote:
Inspectorfrost wrote:
Dr What wrote:Pity you could not have contributed more to the discussion.

Perhaps it was getting too difficult to debate.

Yes it was, in the light of no one saying directly what they thought or posting of any facts to be suspicious of this file, I did my best from what I understood to be the case, cant do better than that, sorry

You seem to be very good at backtracking when you're losing the debate. So if you're saying that a file would have been opened on G McCann because there was a crime involving a child, it would be interesting to know if there are also empty files on the parents of Sarah Payne, Ben Needham and April Jones.

You also backtracked on your comment regarding not caring about whether you used a false address for a hire car -

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Yesterday at 7:41 pm

@Newintown
My comment that it hardly matters was made in the context of what happened to Madeleine, not anything to do with technically breaking the law, possible accidents, insurance issues

@Tigger, OK, thanks. Perhaps there was nothing to put in the file thats why it was empty. It was a repository for possible future information. I will leave it at that.

In fact what you originally said was -

Regarding the passports, I will bow out of that discussion until I see proof that Gery had a second passport. Regarding DVLA driving license and using a false adress, will bow out off that one too. If I gave my driving licence to a car company with my old address on it becUse I hadnt been bothered to update it yet I wouldnt really care. Like it matters much.

I know what I originally said, and it was a personal position about a situation thousands of people probably get into,so? How does that further any theory that GM deliberately falsified stuff for a nefarious reason? That is the point here.

by jd 08.02.13 5:32

Regarding the passports, I will bow out of that discussion until I see proof that Gery had a second passport. Regarding DVLA driving license and using a false adress, will bow out off that one too. If I gave my driving licence to a car company with my old address on it becUse I hadnt been bothered to update it yet I wouldnt really care. Like it matters much.

In my opinion, anyone who really wants to find the truth about Maddie (and truely believes something is seriously amiss with the abduction story) would be questioning in this topic why the father of the missing child is suddenly using a false address from a whole year and a half ago, with a different passport not disclosed to the official police investigation. If this does not raise a curiosity then what does

by Guest 08.02.13 12:03

jd wrote:
Regarding the passports, I will bow out of that discussion until I see proof that Gery had a second passport. Regarding DVLA driving license and using a false adress, will bow out off that one too. If I gave my driving licence to a car company with my old address on it becUse I hadnt been bothered to update it yet I wouldnt really care. Like it matters much.

In my opinion, anyone who really wants to find the truth about Maddie (and truely believes something is seriously amiss with the abduction story) would be questioning in this topic why the father of the missing child is suddenly using a false address from a whole year and a half ago, with a different passport not disclosed to the official police investigation. If this does not raise a curiosity then what does

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Inspectorfrost 08.02.13 19:19

[quote="jd"]

In my opinion, anyone who really wants to find the truth about Maddie (and truely believes something is seriously amiss with the abduction story) would be questioning in this topic why the father of the missing child is suddenly using a false address from a whole year and a half ago, with a different passport not disclosed to the official police investigation. If this does not raise a curiosity then what does

I concede that there seems to be a second passport which appears no where in the files. Using his old address is only because that what was on his driving licence which the car company copied. In any case, having checked all those contracts again, there is something amiss in all this

Michael Wright in his rogatory statement details when he was in Portugal. He wasnt in Portugalwhen the car was first hired so how did his name and driving licence number appear on the first booking? And thereafter on most of the documents.

Further he says in June Gerry asked him to go on as an additional driver, but he didnt think it necessary as they would only be away in Morocco for a couple days. He later says it was after August 22nd that he agreed to be put on as an additional driver.

Sandy Cameron says he and Gerry went to the car hire company in July and arranged for him to be an additional driver but his name doesnt seem to appear anywhere on the rental documents.

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