Re: Portuguese prosecutor releases files of sightings

by Kololi 03.03.10 14:30

Hi Hedge
There could be a likely scenario if the man and little girl were not found right away I suppose.

Lorry driver sees a half naked man pointing a gun at a little girl's head at the side of the road.
Lorry driver tries to intervene but poops himself when the half naked man threatens him with the gun and jumps into his truck and drives off.
Lorry driver doesn't use his rubber duckey thing, choosing instead to go about his business.
Lorry driver, like the man who bumped into the Australian lady of the night, decides to pass on the information many days, weeks or months later giving half naked man plenty of time to do whatever he was intending with the little girl and his gun or plenty of time to run away with her never to be seen again.

It is just so sad that this little girl has been lost because of so many things going against her.

Thank you Gran.

Take care

by justagrannynow 1 03.03.10 14:33

hedge wrote:Presumeably they will only be in the files if she has not been ruled out, if the driver even saw what he claims there is always the chance that the individuals were not found and the case remains as nothing more than a recorded incident/allegation. I would assume that had the child and man been identified then the incident information would record that.

But hedge, if the man and child had been identified, it would have been known whether or not this was Madeleine. If it was, then she was found and released by the French police because the PJ took no action. If it wasn't Madeleine, the case should not have been in the files.

by vaguely1 03.03.10 14:34

by justagrannynow 1 03.03.10 14:42

vaguely1 wrote:if.

You mean as in H Rider Haggard ?

Actually, I think the opening line is quite apt today. big grin

by vaguely1 03.03.10 14:44

Kipling ?

See you lost your head too :))

by justagrannynow 1 03.03.10 14:46

vaguely1 wrote:Kipling ?

See you lost your head too :))

OMG I have lost the plot. That troll attack this morning and now this breaking news have finished me off. laughat

by Pascal 03.03.10 14:56

Troll attack? Here?

by hedge 03.03.10 14:59

justagrannynow 1 wrote:
hedge wrote:Presumeably they will only be in the files if she has not been ruled out, if the driver even saw what he claims there is always the chance that the individuals were not found and the case remains as nothing more than a recorded incident/allegation. I would assume that had the child and man been identified then the incident information would record that.

But hedge, if the man and child had been identified, it would have been known whether or not this was Madeleine. If it was, then she was found and released by the French police because the PJ took no action. If it wasn't Madeleine, the case should not have been in the files.

my post presumes neither man nor child were identified, if they even existed.

by vaguely1 03.03.10 15:04

had he of been identified then they would never have sent the details to Interpol.

by hedge 03.03.10 15:07

vaguely1 wrote:had he of been identified then they would never have sent the details to Interpol.

Exactly, I think the fact that it was sent presumes that they were not identified and dealt with by french law. But of course with all of these translations and late released information etc there is always an element of assmption, I hope the Mccanns and their investigators have a clearer idea than we do.

by justagrannynow 1 03.03.10 15:08

Pascal wrote:Troll attack? Here?

Have sent you a pm

by jmbd 03.03.10 15:45

Update on sky - view a Mitchell interview:

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by Autumn 03.03.10 16:03

justagrannynow 1 wrote:
vaguely1 wrote:Kipling ?

See you lost your head too :))

OMG I have lost the plot. That troll attack this morning and now this breaking news have finished me off.

I wasn't on last night so only found out about it when I logged on earlier today - Muratfan up to his/her old tricks, I gather Shocked

by justagrannynow 1 03.03.10 16:05

Just had a thought about this file coming to light, and information being filed away by the PJ.

Dave Edgar said he believed Madeleine was being held in a lawless village 15kms from PDL, something like that. Do you think he passed that information on to the PJ and that is also in the not relevant box ?
I did wonder at the time why he didn't go and search himself but now realise that it has to be the PJ who instigate any action, though I would have expected the parents to have followed this up with the PJ, being as they knew about this particular lead.

by hedge 03.03.10 16:17

justagrannynow 1 wrote:Just had a thought about this file coming to light, and information being filed away by the PJ.

Dave Edgar said he believed Madeleine was being held in a lawless village 15kms from PDL, something like that. Do you think he passed that information on to the PJ and that is also in the not relevant box ?
I did wonder at the time why he didn't go and search himself but now realise that it has to be the PJ who instigate any action, though I would have expected the parents to have followed this up with the PJ, being as they knew about this particular lead.

Wasn't he speaking generically, I didn't get the impression from his words that he knew which village and which individual, just that this was his theory, that she was in a less than tourist friendly part of Portugal of which there are a few areas not that far from PdL?

by bunnie1 03.03.10 16:28

hedge wrote:
justagrannynow 1 wrote:Just had a thought about this file coming to light, and information being filed away by the PJ.

Dave Edgar said he believed Madeleine was being held in a lawless village 15kms from PDL, something like that. Do you think he passed that information on to the PJ and that is also in the not relevant box ?
I did wonder at the time why he didn't go and search himself but now realise that it has to be the PJ who instigate any action, though I would have expected the parents to have followed this up with the PJ, being as they knew about this particular lead.

Wasn't he speaking generically, I didn't get the impression from his words that he knew which village and which individual, just that this was his theory, that she was in a less than tourist friendly part of Portugal of which there are a few areas not that far from PdL?

Plenty Hedge - I must say if Madeleine were my missing child I'd be worried about passing anything onto the PJ and this latest release just confirms it.

by justagrannynow 1 03.03.10 16:29

hedge wrote:
justagrannynow 1 wrote:Just had a thought about this file coming to light, and information being filed away by the PJ.

Dave Edgar said he believed Madeleine was being held in a lawless village 15kms from PDL, something like that. Do you think he passed that information on to the PJ and that is also in the not relevant box ?
I did wonder at the time why he didn't go and search himself but now realise that it has to be the PJ who instigate any action, though I would have expected the parents to have followed this up with the PJ, being as they knew about this particular lead.

Wasn't he speaking generically, I didn't get the impression from his words that he knew which village and which individual, just that this was his theory, that she was in a less than tourist friendly part of Portugal of which there are a few areas not that far from PdL?

It was probably the press up to their tricks again, but he must have had some information which led him to this belief that Madeleine was being held in the area, lawless village or not, and as he couldn't investigate himself, did he pass on whatever information he had to the PJ? After all, the McCanns are upset today because all sorts of sightings around the world have not been followed up by the PJ, so even if Dave Edgar didn't know the exact village or the individual/s holding Madeleine, he surely passed whatever information he had onto the PJ, and also told Kate and Gerry.
If it was simply a theory he had dreamed up he should have kept it to himself and not sparked off more lurid press reports.

by hedge 03.03.10 16:32

I wasn't aware that there were lurid reports as a result of his theory that Madeleine might still be in portugal but in an area not reached by usual modes of policing, media appeals etc.

by justagrannynow 1 03.03.10 16:42

hedge wrote:I wasn't aware that there were lurid reports as a result of his theory that Madeleine might still be in portugal but in an area not reached by usual modes of policing, media appeals etc.

I saw newspaper reports that Madeleine was alive and being held in a lawless village within a 15km radius of PDL. The reports were attributed to Dave Edgar.
I am logging off now to get the evening meal ready, but if you want I'll do a Google when I return.

Be good all of you big grin

by hedge 03.03.10 17:00

justagrannynow 1 wrote:
hedge wrote:I wasn't aware that there were lurid reports as a result of his theory that Madeleine might still be in portugal but in an area not reached by usual modes of policing, media appeals etc.

I saw newspaper reports that Madeleine was alive and being held in a lawless village within a 15km radius of PDL. The reports were attributed to Dave Edgar.
I am logging off now to get the evening meal ready, but if you want I'll do a Google when I return.

Be good all of you

Oh I think we all know what he said, we are currently discussing it after all, it was just when you referred to 'lurid press reports' I thought you meant these were as a result of him sharing his theory.

I might have caught up now. Either way my point remains, I doubt he had anything to share with the police in terms of detail because I thought it was clear from his words he was theorising and did not have specific evidence that could lead him to specific individuals or villages, if he had then he wouldn't have been musing about potentials he would have been ... you know... there! It's just a possibility, one of many but perhaps hold greater intrigue for him because he fears that these areas have not been examined as closely as they might, it was about the only geographical location left only to the PJ and legally not allowed to be double checked until fairly recently and of course by now it may be too late etc

by vaguely1 03.03.10 17:19

bunnie1 wrote:
hedge wrote:
justagrannynow 1 wrote:Just had a thought about this file coming to light, and information being filed away by the PJ.

Dave Edgar said he believed Madeleine was being held in a lawless village 15kms from PDL, something like that. Do you think he passed that information on to the PJ and that is also in the not relevant box ?
I did wonder at the time why he didn't go and search himself but now realise that it has to be the PJ who instigate any action, though I would have expected the parents to have followed this up with the PJ, being as they knew about this particular lead.

Wasn't he speaking generically, I didn't get the impression from his words that he knew which village and which individual, just that this was his theory, that she was in a less than tourist friendly part of Portugal of which there are a few areas not that far from PdL?
Plenty Hedge - I must say if Madeleine were my missing child I'd be worried about passing anything onto the PJ and this latest release just confirms it.

It seems that NZ are hinting that the original video footage, sent to PT may have been lost or destroyed.

I really hope not. If only that it may make it easier to identify the man and rule out the child as being Madeleine.

by aiyoyo 03.03.10 18:21

It was reported NZ police investigated it didnt they? Therefore I assume they must have ruled it out.

Thing is: why flash this now when the sighting took place in Dec 2007 and nothing came of it?

by hedge 03.03.10 18:25

aiyoyo wrote:It was reported NZ police investigated it didnt they? Therefore I assume they must have ruled it out.

Thing is: why flash this now when the sighting took place in Dec 2007 and nothing came of it?

No the NZ police passed it to Interpol, it seems Interpol sent it to the PJ and PJ marked it not relevant.

by Cath 03.03.10 18:34

If NZ police investigated it and ruled it out, there'd be a follow up report in the files about that.

by Snowy 03.03.10 18:36

One of the oddest things in this is the first 'new sighting' named by the papers.

It sounds like George Burke, who claimed he had seen a man dragging a child along towards Lagos marina, iirc.

It came to the investigation's attention because one of the family went down to a pizza place in Luz to get take-aways and the assistant told him that a fellow worker, Burke (or owner, the details seem to vary) had seen this happening on a road as he came back to Luz in a lorry at just before six in the morning.

The whole thing was odd because when the PJ followed it up the pizza place seemed to be holding the guy's passport, which was in a different name. But he'd left town.

They couldn't trace him to speak to him directly and it was dropped.

Now it turns out he was wanted for fraud in the UK, which might explain why he had two names and presumably more than one passport. But at some point he seems to have gone back to the authorities to give a first hand account. So it isn't really a 'new' sighting, more of a slight tidying-up of something that was already in the files.

by hedge 03.03.10 18:44

So this 'secret file' might actually be made up of a mixture of unchecked out things and checked out things but ones that didn't make it to the investigative files, despite being at least partially investigated... what a confusing mess Sad

by justagrannynow 1 04.03.10 7:29

hedge wrote:So this 'secret file' might actually be made up of a mixture of unchecked out things and checked out things but ones that didn't make it to the investigative files, despite being at least partially investigated... what a confusing mess

It certainly is. I had another thought about this situation with the univestigated sightings. If the local police from around the globe have to pass the information to the PJ who are the force responsible for the investigation before they can take action, does this not knock all the appeals from the parents for information on the head? I can understand them making them, but if the power to decide what is, or is not investigated lies with the PJ, surely we are in an impasse.

by vaguely1 04.03.10 8:27

New Zealand sighting now cleared up.

thumbsup

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by jmbd 04.03.10 9:21

How quickly it could be cleared up when investigated.

by Cath 04.03.10 9:24

Thanks Vaguely1 for posting that.

Yes jmbd looks like they quickly cleared it up. Wonder if it's done now or at the time and if so, if it's in the released files as well.

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