Re: Latest from PeterMac's FREE e-book: CHAPTER 63 SMITH-GERRY-MAN SCRUTINISED

by **Jill Havern** 20.09.24 6:00

If Madeleine was still alive when she lost all that blood, would the decaying blood on the wall and between the tiles still produce cadaverine?

In other words, if Madeleine was swiftly removed from behind the sofa and she didn't die, would both dogs still have alerted to the blood?

by Bluebagthepirate 20.09.24 7:05

Jill Havern wrote:If Madeleine was still alive when she lost all that blood, would the decaying blood on the wall and between the tiles still produce cadaverine?

In other words, if Madeleine was swiftly removed from behind the sofa and she didn't die, would both dogs still have alerted to the blood?

If just blood produced cadaverine then it would be everywhere and a cadaverine dog would be pointless?

Every time I cut myself I don't think I'm leaving death scene.

by Bluebagthepirate 20.09.24 7:05

Scent.

by Justice for Maddie 20.09.24 8:46

Latest from PeterMac's FREE e-book: CHAPTER 63 SMITH-GERRY-MAN SCRUTINISED - Page 9 Postmo10

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver

by Justice for Maddie 20.09.24 9:25

If a corpse is already in the stage of decomposition, the dead body in dissolution is called a cadaver. So the cadaver dog (Eddie) alerts after 2 days right?

Latest from PeterMac's FREE e-book: CHAPTER 63 SMITH-GERRY-MAN SCRUTINISED - Page 9 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQQcIsnIWu0iHSGoyY-CJO09OuP4y9LKUCKJw&s

Latest from PeterMac's FREE e-book: CHAPTER 63 SMITH-GERRY-MAN SCRUTINISED - Page 9 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQQcIsnIWu0iHSGoyY-CJO09OuP4y9LKUCKJw&s

by **PeterMac** 20.09.24 9:46

Jill Havern wrote:If Madeleine was still alive when she lost all that blood, would the decaying blood on the wall and between the tiles still produce cadaverine?

In other words, if Madeleine was swiftly removed from behind the sofa and she didn't die, would both dogs still have alerted to the blood?

Yes. The cadaverine is the decomposition product of Lysine, one of the 20 amino acids in the human body, which is present throughout the body, including in blood.
It is one of the Nine essential amino acids, meaning it cannot be synthesised by the Human body and must be included in the diet.
The other eleven can be synthesised if there are proper levels of the correct nutrients.

Yes. The blood soaking into the grout between and then under the tiles and not properly cleaned away would be enough for the both dogs to alert.
One to blood, the other to cadaverine

by Bluebagthepirate 20.09.24 9:52

PeterMac wrote:

Yes. The blood soaking into the grout between and then under the tiles and not properly cleaned away would be enough for the both dogs to alert.
One to blood, the other to cadaverine

So a cadaverine dog signalling doesn't mean death?

Why isn't cadaverine everywhere?

People cut themselves often and women have the monthly thing.

by Justice for Maddie 20.09.24 10:08

I thought the blood dog only alerts to blood and the cadaver dog to cadaver (after to 2 days). thinking

Why 2 dogs then?

by Bluebagthepirate 20.09.24 10:11

Justice for Maddie wrote:I thought the blood dog only alerts to blood and the cadaver dog to cadaver (after to 2 days). Why 2 dogs then?

I'm struggling with this.

Peter can you please Clarify for us?

The signals from Eddie on all the McCann items are not indications of death?

by Justice for Maddie 20.09.24 10:18

Sorry, cadaver (after 2 days)

by Bluebagthepirate 20.09.24 10:30

Am I confusing detecting cadaverine with detecting the scent of human decomposition?
I just read that cadaver dogs are trained using chemicals (plural) that mimic the scent of decomposing flesh.

So not just cadaverine but the others like putriscene?

by crusader 20.09.24 10:38

Eddie also alerted to blood, that's why the two dogs worked together.
If Keela alerted to blood, Eddie was brought in to detect cadaverine.
That is why Keela didn't react to the wardrobe in the McCann's bedroom.

by crusader 20.09.24 10:40

Keela only alerted to dried blood.

by Justice for Maddie 20.09.24 11:28

What Are Cadaver Dogs?

Cadaver dogs are dogs who are trained to pick up the scent of human remains (which is why you’ll sometimes see them referred to as human-remains detection dogs).

Their work may seem similar to search and rescue dogs, but cadaver dogs play a distinctly different role. While the former is trained to pick up the general scent of humans, cadaver dogs specialize in detecting decomposing flesh. A trained cadaver dog is 95 percent effective at picking up the scents of human decomposition, including bodies that are buried up to 15 feet deep.

Law enforcement groups rely on cadaver dogs to help solve crimes where a dead body is suspected. Not only does this provide more evidence that can be used in court, it can also provide much-needed closure in cases where a missing person is assumed dead but not definitively so. Cadaver dogs are often used in conjunction with search and rescue dogs, since that allows humans to be found both alive or dead.

Training for cadaver dogs includes:

Trailing: This is a skill that allows dogs to pick up on scents that have fallen on the ground, such as instances in which a body was dragged.
Air-scenting: A skill for picking up scents in the air, which includes smelling decomposing remains in the air and following the scent to its source.

Cadaver dogs are trained in certified training facilities, where special chemicals are used to mimic the scents of decomposing human flesh before the dog moves on to training with real body parts. Each dog receives about 1,000 hours of training before they are ready to work in the field, making them a highly valuable investment for law enforcement and other types of search groups.

Why Are Dogs So Good at Finding Cadavers?

We may never understand the full power of the canine nose, but we do know that it is immensely capable at finding and distinguishing between scents—including those that our human noses would never be able to source on their own.

Dogs have roughly 200 million olfactory receptors in their nose, making their sense of smell about 40 times greater than that of the average human. This allows them to sniff out everything from bombs, drugs, and living and dead human flesh to certain diseases. They can even smell emotions.

The use of dogs to find human remains is nothing new. According to a paper in the Journal of Archeological Method and Theory, dogs have been helping to track down dead bodies since around 700 B.C., and over the many centuries since, they’ve shown a remarkable ability to recognize the scent of decomposing flesh, regardless of whether it’s hours old or decades old.

Worth mentioning is that not all dogs’ noses have an equal sense of smell. German Shepherds, which are a common breed of cadaver dog, boast about 225 million olfactory receptors, while Dachshunds have closer to 125 million. And the more receptors the dog has, the better suited they are to the tricky task of finding human remains.

Other Interesting Facts About Cadaver Dogs

There’s a whole lot to be impressed about when it comes to cadaver dogs. And just in case you’re not already in awe of these extraordinary canines, here are some additional facts about cadaver dogs that are worth knowing about:

Cadaver dogs are able to tell the difference between human remains and animal remains, which means they’ll know right away if the scent they’re picking up is from a person or from decomposing wildlife.
Because they’re trained to pick up scents both on the ground and in the air, cadaver dogs can identify crime scenes even if the body has since been moved. Depending on the circumstances, they may also be able to lead search teams to where the body was relocated to.
Cadaver dogs work tirelessly both in training and in the field. Altogether, they can identify hundreds of different scents related to decomposition, versus the handful of scents a drug- or bomb-sniffing dog might be trained to sniff out.
During training, cadaver dogs learn to differentiate between types of decomposing flesh, including recently dead victims, long dead victims, and drowned victims.

by Justice for Maddie 20.09.24 11:29

https://www.thesprucepets.com/cadaver-dogs-1113771

by Buzz Shine 20.09.24 12:39

PeterMac wrote:If they were lucky with a waiter, or ordered at the bar, my educated guess would be no earlier than 21:35 before they placed the order

And the two men say they were there for about an HOUR

[The attempts to 'salami slice' the actual time of the sighting are fascinating. The bloke on FB is priceless. He is trying to time the last drink at 21, which gives them TEN minutes to order, drink, pay and leave. NOT the HOUR which Martin and Peter Smith allow for their "few drinks" ]

To make an educated guess about something, is to salami slice something. But nothing will ever alter the fact that when it comes to Smithman wild guesswork is all we have to work on. I'll emphasis once more, that does NOT mean Smithman is Gerry, it just means it's not proof that he is not.

We can all cherry pick the snippets of evidence that suits one theory over another and I accept your analysis has as much merit as any another but we also have to accept it's not proof. It's possible the tribe had been collected and were on their way when the bill was paid at Kelly's. That is another possibility, even if it's not a probability.

"Questioned, she (Aoife Smith) responds that she knows the time that they left because her father and her brother decided to leave early that night. There were two reasons for this: one was the fact that her sister-in-law was not feeling very well and the other was because her brother, sister-in-law, nephew and son of her sister-in-law finished their holiday the next day and had to catch the morning flight returning to Ireland."

I'm a great believer in practising what we preach when it comes to 'keeping an open mind', or what's the point in preaching it. Hence my likes for some of the comments on the merits of Gerry NOT being Smithman. But some people on here can't even work that bit out for themselves.

You can all keep believing I am some guy from Facebook who came on here to disrupt your forum if you want, but all that does is prove my point, that none of you are infallible detectives.

This is definitely goodbye.

Let's raise a glass to keeping an open mind.

.

by crusader 20.09.24 12:51

Don't say goodbye Buzz Shine, I think you made a good point.

by Bluebagthepirate 20.09.24 12:53

Buzz Shine wrote:

Let's raise a glass to keeping an open mind. .

Or raise a pushchair.

Cheerio.

by crusader 20.09.24 12:59

You must do what you want Buzz but finding the truth about Madeleine is why we are here.
Ride the storm, I would.

by Bluebagthepirate 20.09.24 13:03

crusader wrote:Don't say goodbye Buzz Shine, I think you made a good point.

Which one was that?

by crusader 20.09.24 13:06

This one.

It's possible the tribe had been collected and were on their way when the bill was paid at Kelly's. That is another possibility, even if it's not a probability.

by AnneCGuedes 20.09.24 13:07

crusader wrote:Eddie also alerted to blood, that's why the two dogs worked together.
If Keela alerted to blood, Eddie was brought in to detect cadaverine.
That is why Keela didn't react to the wardrobe in the McCann's bedroom.

Eddie was always the first one sent (by the way cadaver scent is a compound of more than 400 volatile molecules). Keela didn't react in the MC bedroom (first place where Eddie alerted) because there was no blood that had dried on spot).

by crusader 20.09.24 13:10

In the same vein, it's also possible that most of the family set off before the bill was paid at the Dolphin restaurant.

by **Jill Havern** 20.09.24 13:14

Buzz Shine wrote:all that does is prove my point, that none of you are infallible detectives.

This is definitely goodbye.

PeterMac is a retired Police Superintendent, with a 30 year service, which included being a detective.

I won't ask what your qualifications are as that would elicit a response.

Goodbye.

by crusader 20.09.24 13:16

AnneCGuedes wrote

Eddie was always the first one sent (by the way cadaver scent is a compound of more than 400 volatile molecules). Keela didn't react in the MC bedroom (first place where Eddie alerted) because there was no blood that had dried on spot)

That's what I said in my post #253 ^^^

by crusader 20.09.24 13:17

Have you got an itchy foot Jill?

by **Jill Havern** 20.09.24 13:20

Not on this occasion...I shall let him leave of his own volition. big grin

by Bluebagthepirate 20.09.24 13:20

crusader wrote:This one.

It's possible the tribe had been collected and were on their way when the bill was paid at Kelly's. That is another possibility, even if it's not a probability.

Did it take 27 minutes to pay the bill?

Martin Smith statement.
" Around 21H00 they left the restaurant and headed toward 'Kelly's Bar'; about a 50 metre distance from the restaurant, following the path, as it is very short"

??

Another wrong time by him.

That's "they left" by the way.

And let's not forget that Smith forgot it was Gerry by January 2008.

by Bluebagthepirate 20.09.24 13:23

...and bar bills get paid when you order.

Bar keepers are not stupid.

by crusader 20.09.24 13:27

I'm going off what Aoife said, I also think Aoife would have given a better description of what the man was wearing.
In my experience, men don't notice what other men are wearing unless they have a keen eye for fashion.

What Are Cadaver Dogs?

Why Are Dogs So Good at Finding Cadavers?

Other Interesting Facts About Cadaver Dogs

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