Re: Latest from PeterMac's FREE e-book: CHAPTER 63 SMITH-GERRY-MAN SCRUTINISED

by Ladyinred 19.09.24 17:52

Is it really worth the effort?

Buzz has left now. Onwards!

by Bluebagthepirate 19.09.24 18:01

Honesty wrote:For the sake of clarity, could someone please explain in as few words as possible, i.e. a summary, of what caused such offence about Buzz Shine's comments?

Thank you.

Being disingenuous.

Pushchairs... Smith statements... squinty eyed view of witnesses after 10pm... moving goalposts after Peter showed Smith was wrong about the time...

Not offensive, just dishonest and some piss taking.

by AnneCGuedes 19.09.24 18:16

crusader wrote:
The Smith sighting always leads to lively debate

How do you explain this phenomenon among people who aren't convinced that M was abducted ?

by crusader 19.09.24 18:47

The Smiths saw was they thought could have been an abductor taking Madeleine away in her pyjamas.
It was only when they saw saw Gerry alighting the aeroplane they thought it could have been him.
If it wasn't for Martin Smith making a 2nd statement to that effect, would people doubt what he said in his first statement?
I think people latched on to the 2nd statement and believed it was Gerry the Smiths saw.
A lot of people, including me, never thought Madeleine had been abducted from the start.
After the release of the PJ files and seeing the Smith family statements, Smithman became a hot topic and for good reason.
I think there is no evidence of an abduction but there is plenty of evidence of a cover up.
After reading the Smiths 2nd statements, I was convinced it was Gerry, now I'm not so sure, but I'm not completely ruling him out.

by Bluebagthepirate 19.09.24 18:58

Crusader, what time do you think the Smith sighting was?

When did Kate kick off?

What time did they stage the abduction?

Just interested why you are not ruling Gerry out after all that?

by crusader 19.09.24 19:50

Martin Peter and Aoife all agree it was around 10pm when they saw the man with the child, who am I to say they are wrong, they could have rounded the time up of course.
I cannot contradict them, they were there and that is what they saw and that is the time they said.
I cannot pick parts of their statements to suit what I believe, I either believe what they say or I don't.
As for when Kate kicked off, I can only go off when people were out looking for Madeleine, although there is plenty of evidence to say it was before 10pm.
I can't rule Gerry out, because I'm not yet convinced something happened to Madeleine earlier in the week.

by Bluebagthepirate 19.09.24 20:04

Logic and the time on the bills say it wasn't 10pm.

Peter has analysed this correctly I think.

The dogs and the cadaverine say it wasn't that evening.

by Bluebagthepirate 19.09.24 20:06

Oh... and as for the other smiths on the time.. who is going to disagree with dad?

by crusader 19.09.24 20:21

I'm really sorry not to agree with Peter's analysis, I feel bad but I cant help what I think.
I'm sure we discussed cadaverine somewhere, doesn't it start at the moment of death?
If Madeleine had died soon after the high tea, I'm sure if she had laid there even a couple of hours the dog's would have detected it but I'm no expert.
Is Martin Smith not a nice man or a man who imposes his will on his family, I believe him to be the former.

by crusader 19.09.24 20:25

Are you insinuating Martin Smith told Peter and Aoife what to put in their statements?

by AnneCGuedes 19.09.24 20:34

crusader wrote:The Smiths saw was they thought could have been an abductor taking Madeleine away in her pyjamas.

MS never saw an abductor, but a child carrier, assuming they were father and daughter.
PS, 10 after, remembered their crossing a M like child, he talked to his father, the whole family met. The idea that the carrier could be the abductor (since that was the doxa) started to grow and they resolved to inform the police.

All that seems normal. Why then so much controversy about the Smith sighting. It started with GA who mainly asked the S to return to PdL because he hoped they would recognise the arguido RM. Months later Joao Carlos didn't even include the S in the reconstitution attempt.

by AnneCGuedes 19.09.24 20:36

10 days, sorry, edition not possible, why ?

by Verity 19.09.24 20:46

Jojo1 wrote:I had a look on facebook and there's some bloke over on facebook who has his own page apparently is plugging Smithman at the moment and this person was sounding just like him.
Apologies for going off topic here and apologies if I caused bother by causing him to become "bored of smithman"

There's also some bloke on facebook who has completely highjacked this group for his own Smithman agenda. Is this the bloke you mean?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/goncaloamaralmaddiebastadementiras

by crusader 19.09.24 20:55

If Martin Smith saw what he thought was a man carrying his daughter, why would he contact the Portuguese police to tell them what he saw.
He didn't think it was Gerry at that time, he thought the man wasn't a tourist.
So did he think the police could eliminate them,
or did he think in hindsight, 10 day's later, the man could have been abducting Madeleine?

by AnneCGuedes 19.09.24 21:15

crusader wrote:If Martin Smith saw what he thought was a man carrying his daughter, why would he contact the Portuguese police to tell them what he saw.
He didn't think it was Gerry at that time, he thought the man wasn't a tourist.
So did he think the police could eliminate them,
or did he think in hindsight, 10 day's later, the man could have been abducting Madeleine?

When MS called the police, it was the result of a family meeting where they all agreed the carried child looked very much like M's photos. I find it a very normal reason to call the police, though the police told MS that a child carrier wasn't an exceptionnal sighting (when I was in PdL I met no child carrier at night). Anyway MS reported and that would have been all IF GA, hearing this, hadn't thought he had perhaps a chance to catch up RM.

by Bluebagthepirate 19.09.24 21:18

crusader wrote:Are you insinuating Martin Smith told Peter and Aoife what to put in their statements?

I am.

by Bluebagthepirate 19.09.24 21:19

Bluebagthepirate wrote:
crusader wrote:Are you insinuating Martin Smith told Peter and Aoife what to put in their statements?
I am.

How else could they all have the wrong time?

MS was the driver here.

by crusader 19.09.24 21:20

If I'd seen what the Smiths saw, I would have contacted the police too.
I wasn't aware they contacted the police after seeing photo's of Madeleine, interesting.

by crusader 19.09.24 21:23

I don't believe that to be the case Bluebag.

by Bluebagthepirate 19.09.24 21:23

crusader wrote:If Martin Smith saw what he thought was a man carrying his daughter, why would he contact the Portuguese police to tell them what he saw.
He didn't think it was Gerry at that time, he thought the man wasn't a tourist.
So did he think the police could eliminate them,
or did he think in hindsight, 10 day's later, the man could have been abducting Madeleine?

It really is irrelevant.

As Peter said weeks ago.

by Bluebagthepirate 19.09.24 21:25

crusader wrote:If I'd seen what the Smiths saw, I would have contacted the police too.
I wasn't aware they contacted the police after seeing photo's of Madeleine, interesting.

But they couldn't see the child's face, or the man come to that (but did e-fits months later).

They (he) strike me as wanting their 15 minutes of fame.

by crusader 19.09.24 21:27

I love all this irrelevant chatter.

by Bluebagthepirate 19.09.24 21:27

crusader wrote:I don't believe that to be the case Bluebag.

How did they all get the time wrong by the same amount?

by crusader 19.09.24 21:30

You can no more prove that than I can.

by Bluebagthepirate 19.09.24 21:50

crusader wrote:You can no more prove that than I can.

I think Peter made the case.

There is no way that having left the restaurant at that documented time, the whole group could have gone to the next bar, ordered drinks and drank them and been at that place when they said.

There is supposedly a bar bill as well that says when they paid for the drinks. In a bar you pay when you purchase. At least in EVERY European bar I've been in (plenty).

I think Smith saw the news and back engineered is story and talked his family into it.

Lets not forget, he forgot it was Gerry he saw by January 2008.

by Nina 19.09.24 22:19

crusader wrote:I'm really sorry not to agree with Peter's analysis, I feel bad but I cant help what I think.
I'm sure we discussed cadaverine somewhere, doesn't it start at the moment of death?
If Madeleine had died soon after the high tea, I'm sure if she had laid there even a couple of hours the dog's would have detected it but I'm no expert.
Is Martin Smith not a nice man or a man who imposes his will on his family, I believe him to be the former.

Yes from the moment of death the body begins to change once starved of oxygen. The first organ to begin this process is the brain. Strange that the pro McCann crew are prepared to repeat that the scent on Kate's clothes were due to her having certified death in patients as though this is done hours after death hence the scent of cadaverine but aren't prepared to admit that the scent was reacted to by Eddie in the apartment etc. This first scent of course isn't discernible to a human being as it isn't the cloying sickening scent of advanced decomposition.

https://www.aftermath.com/content/human-decomposition/#:~:text=The%20first%20stage%20of%20human,membranes%20in%20cells%20to%20rupture.

by crusader 19.09.24 22:33

Martin Smith got the time of leaving the Dolphin restaurant completely wrong.
Peter Smith said the same as Martin.
Aoife said they left the restaurant about 9-30, which would tie in with the bill time at 9-21.
They all agree they left Kelly's bar at or around 10pm.
Aoife said they stayed half an hour.
It's quite possible they only stayed 30 minutes in the bar, after all, Peter's wife wasn't feeling very well.

by Jojo1 19.09.24 22:43

Verity wrote:
Jojo1 wrote:I had a look on facebook and there's some bloke over on facebook who has his own page apparently is plugging Smithman at the moment and this person was sounding just like him.
Apologies for going off topic here and apologies if I caused bother by causing him to become "bored of smithman"
There's also some bloke on facebook who has completely highjacked this group for his own Smithman agenda. Is this the bloke you mean?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/goncaloamaralmaddiebastadementiras

I've just checked.
It's possible. That guy is on a number of groups.
However there are a few members on those groups, who could be him.
It's hard to tell

by **PeterMac** 20.09.24 5:13

crusader wrote:Martin Smith got the time of leaving the Dolphin restaurant completely wrong.
Peter Smith said the same as Martin.
Aoife said they left the restaurant about 9-30, which would tie in with the bill time at 9-21.
They all agree they left Kelly's bar at or around 10pm.
Aoife said they stayed half an hour.
It's quite possible they only stayed 30 minutes in the bar, after all, Peter's wife wasn't feeling very well.

NO

21:27:40

Latest from PeterMac's FREE e-book: CHAPTER 63 SMITH-GERRY-MAN SCRUTINISED - Page 8 Dolphi10

as near HALF PAST NINE as makes no difference by the time you have taken the ticket, given the tip, thanked people and put the credit card back in your purse
and the purse back in your handbag. (Mrs Smith - Peter's Wife, - the daughter in law - paid).

THEN they have to collect the tribe, and go DOWN the STAIRS and out onto the street.
These things take time, with two women, and 5 children ranging from 13 to 4 year old

THEN they go along the road to Kelly's and settle down
THEN they order the first of "a few drinks"

If they were lucky with a waiter, or ordered at the bar, my educated guess would be no earlier than 21:35 before they placed the order

And the two men say they were there for about an HOUR

[The attempts to 'salami slice' the actual time of the sighting are fascinating. The bloke on FB is priceless. He is trying to time the last drink at 21:47, which gives them TEN minutes to order, drink, pay and leave. NOT the HOUR which Martin and Peter Smith allow for their "few drinks" ]

by **PeterMac** 20.09.24 5:48

Nina wrote:
crusader wrote:I'm really sorry not to agree with Peter's analysis, I feel bad but I cant help what I think.
I'm sure we discussed cadaverine somewhere, doesn't it start at the moment of death?
If Madeleine had died soon after the high tea, I'm sure if she had laid there even a couple of hours the dog's would have detected it but I'm no expert.
Is Martin Smith not a nice man or a man who imposes his will on his family, I believe him to be the former.
Yes from the moment of death the body begins to change once starved of oxygen. The first organ to begin this process is the brain. Strange that the pro McCann crew are prepared to repeat that the scent on Kate's clothes were due to her having certified death in patients as though this is done hours after death hence the scent of cadaverine but aren't prepared to admit that the scent was reacted to by Eddie in the apartment etc. This first scent of course isn't discernible to a human being as it isn't the cloying sickening scent of advanced decomposition.

https://www.aftermath.com/content/human-decomposition/#:~:text=The%20first%20stage%20of%20human,membranes%20in%20cells%20to%20rupture.

Upthread somewhere
Cadaverine is a decay product of the amino acid Lysine which is present in blood, and in children in slightly higher concentrations than in adults
"Cadaverine is produced by decarboxylation of lysine." WIKI

LYSINE

Latest from PeterMac's FREE e-book: CHAPTER 63 SMITH-GERRY-MAN SCRUTINISED - Page 8 L-lysi10

CADAVERINE

Latest from PeterMac's FREE e-book: CHAPTER 63 SMITH-GERRY-MAN SCRUTINISED - Page 8 Pentan10

From which it is clear what has happened.
The Carboxyl group -C(=O)OH at the right hand end has 'dropped off' during decomposition,
Enzymes attack the molecule and the carboxyl group is destroyed first releasing Carbon Dioxide

This means that the blood on the floor and between the tiles and up the walls would begin to decay
and be available for discovery by the dogs three months later, EVEN IF the body were "so swiftly removed". (Kate, Book. Yes really !)

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