Leave No Stone Unturned

aquila wrote:It's not just what you know.

It's not just who you know.

It is what you know about who you know.

How about that for a theory.

Flossy wrote:

aquila wrote:It's not just what you know.

It's not just who you know.

It is what you know about who you know.

How about that for a theory.

Could you elaborate further please.

Verdi wrote:Sharon Lewin witness statement - 21st April 2008

Occupation: Teaching Assistant

I am the person referred to above and I work as a teaching assistant at Laurels Nursery School, Melton Road, Queniborough, Leicestershire. The nursery school has the capacity to receive about 80 children full-time, aged between 6 weeks and 5 years and is open from 07.30 to 18.00 daily. The children are grouped according to age and I work in the section that looks after children aged between two and half and three years old. I have worked at the nursery for five years and I am currently on maternity leave.
 
I got to know Madeleine and her parents Kate and Gerry through my work at the nursery school. Madeleine started at the nursery when she was about two years old.
 
When she was two and a half she joined the group supervised by me, I think it was in 2006, and she remained there for about 6 months. Madeleine attended on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays.
 
She would be dropped off between 08.00 and 08.30 and would return home at about 17.00. The dropping off and picking up was taken in turns by the parents and as a result of this Kate and Gerry asked me to take care of the children during the evening on some occasions. Kate would pick Madeleine up from the nursery at the end of the day and I would accompany them to their house. We would have tea and I would help give Madeleine her bath.
 
Kate and Gerry would go out and I would watch a DVD with the girl before telling her a bedtime story.
 
I think I did this about 5 times and on each occasion it was at their home in Rothley.
 

Verdi wrote:Birdguts88 (what a dreadful user name) to the forum.

I have moved your post here because it doesn't appear to be directly relevant to the thread you selected.

Having said that, sorry to say but I'm confused.  The link you provide is, as you know, photographic evidence only - is the remains of your commentary a quote from elsewhere, a comment by your good self, or a combination of the two?

I'm not quite sure what you are suggesting.  A bunch of keys on a table - why would there be reason to think that the keys where in any way connected to the Ocean Club or it's environs?  The photographs were taken on the morning of 4th May 2007, if you are intending to imply the keys were those given for access to the local church, do you really think they would be in the possession of the McCanns so early on Friday 4th May and worse still, left on a table for all to see - and photograph?

Perhaps if your able to clarify your point it might be worthy of discussion.  As it stands it appears to be a non starter.

Verdi wrote:You still haven't clarified if your OP is your commentary alone or otherwise.  For example, you say ... " I could not find a matching key hole in apartment 5A and other vacationers inform that no other keys are needed to access other parts of the complex" - is this you talking or is it a precis from somebody or somewhere else?

Your post implies, at least to me, that you have first hand knowledge which is always very useful.

Meanwhile you might find this of interest..

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Church doors

Interesting! I seem to have been debunked. It may be interesting to see key holes of the other doors on the side. From the google view, the resolution is not high enough. I do not understand your question about my previous question. I said that I saw an online photo of keys and asked if the keys in the picture had ever been discussed in this case. I have also said that other vacationers inform that no other keys are needed for the complex. Why is it important to know what the sources are? Greetings

Verdi wrote:

Interesting! I seem to have been debunked. It may be interesting to see key holes of the other doors on the side. From the google view, the resolution is not high enough. I do not understand your question about my previous question. I said that I saw an online photo of keys and asked if the keys in the picture had ever been discussed in this case. I have also said that other vacationers inform that no other keys are needed for the complex. Why is it important to know what the sources are? Greetings

Greetings in return!

I'm none the wiser so I'll bale out of this one but it's not important.

As I said, this is really a non starter.  Much of the church debacle and later reference to a possible cremation - in particular a body being hidden in a deacesed woman's coffin, was largely media reportage which is generally less than reliable.  For example this report was published by TVMais magazine in June 2014..

On the night of their daughter's disappearance, the McCann couple asked for a priest. The priest of the Luz church, José Pacheco, did not respond. The couple knew, even before they had gone to Praia da Luz, that the Anglican priest Haynes Hubbard celebrated masses there and lived with his wife. He had a friendship with McCann's family members. It was with him whom they spoke with. Some days later, Gerry and Kate received the church keys, and since then they were able to enter and leave at any time. A situation that was criticized by the Bishop of the Algarve at the time. When questioned on this discretionary act, the priest José Pacheco said: "Do I decide that?!"

McCanns visited the church in secret

"Although our pain feels much rawer here, it is comforting at the same time since we feel closer to Madeleine - we can read in a press statement sent to Lusa news agency in 12th December 2009, by the McCann's Portuguese PR, in connection to the couple's visit to the church. During the day, the visits were announced and followed by the media. The exception was made in the early hours of January 14, 2010. At 5am they were seen and photographed leaving the church from a side door. In the afternoon they gave a press conference.


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This for a start is inaccurate, the priest Haynes-Hubbard and his wife didn't fly to Praia da Luz until 6th May 2007.  The 'cremation' theory hit the headlines in April 2016, it was I believe a speculative comment made by Dr Amaral during an interview.  Routine policing to follow all lines ofi nquiry, no matter how unlikely.  Also it was said at the time of the PJ investigation that there was extensive work going on around the church which hampered the search/investigation.

I don't think you'll find the proverbial needle in a haystack by looking into speculative press reports or a bunch of keys seen in a photograph.  Please don't go back down the road suggesting Gerry McCann or someone on his behalf, was carrying a corpse around the streets of Luz at approximately 10:00pm onthe night of 3rd May 2007  

Hobs wrote:McCanns visited the church in secret

"Although our pain feels much rawer here, it is comforting at the same time since we feel closer to Madeleine


Oops

If Maddie was still alive as claimed, why would they feel closer to her in a church?
Churches are places to celebrate, if that is the right word, births marriages and deaths.


If Maddie was alive and with a paedophile abductor, how would the mccanns feel closer to her?
The only way they could feel closer to Maddie is if they knew she was dead and/or perhaps was being stored/had been stored in the church.

This is leakage

Hobs wrote:Churches are places to celebrate, if that is the right word, births marriages and deaths.

Yes, agreed. But why did they ask to see a priest / have access to the church only a few hours after his disappearance? The period in which we expect urgency, panic, madness from the parents. Not for a calm awakening. Perhaps to deviate from the truth that they had visited the church before, that they had the keys already, then publicly asking for access to the church, they seem to have no access to the church.

Verdi wrote:

Hobs wrote:Churches are places to celebrate, if that is the right word, births marriages and deaths.

No they ain't - they are places to talk to God or his/her intermediary

Verdi wrote:

Yes, agreed. But why did they ask to see a priest / have access to the church only a few hours after his disappearance? The period in which we expect urgency, panic, madness from the parents. Not for a calm awakening. Perhaps to deviate from the truth that they had visited the church before, that they had the keys already, then publicly asking for access to the church, they seem to have no access to the church.

Quote:   But why did they ask to see a priest / have access to the church only a few hours after his disappearance?

He who - the priest?

Judging by following events, I would suggest the McCanns called for a priest because they wished to convey a devout pious image.  That aside, the McCanns didn't have private access to the church (with key) within hours of Madeleine's alleged disappearance.

Jose Manuel Conceicao Pacheco  witness statement - 30th October 2007

The first time he had contact with the McCann's was on 5th May at about 19.00. This was a personal contact with them in the Ocean Club at their apartment, but not the apartment Madeleine disappeared from. They were accompanied by members of the holiday group.

This was an important meeting for the McCann's and which had not been possible to the fact that they were busy. He knows that on the fateful night the McCann's requested the presence of a priest, but he was only informed the following morning.

On the 5th, the theme they talked about was the disappearance and he gave all possible spiritual comfort and they prayed together. They also agreed that the couple would go to the church the following day to attend a mass.

He also prayed with the McCann's on the 6th and 8th May in their apartment.

He gave them the key to the church on the 7th or 8th May upon the suggestion of John Geraghty, a resident of the parish, so that they could calmly go to the church without any media pressure. Someone from the church gave the key to John Geraghty, who then passed it on to the McCann's, with Father Pacheco's permission.

He does not remember the date upon which the key was returned.

Other contact with the McCann's took place at the end of mass when he would comfort them.

He would also meet with the McCann's after they returned from their trips and remembered they were animated when they returned from Morocco as they thought they would Madeleine there. He also comforted Kate when the news of a child buried in Arau broke, as she revealed great nervousness and anxiety, thinking that the child had died.

When questioned, he said he never heard their confessions, perhaps because they only spoke English.

He never talked to them alone.

He states that they showed great suffering to the loss of their daughter.

He adds that a parish bulletin was published giving spiritual, moral and human support to the couple and to other missing children.
....................

It's an established fact that the McCanns had been given the keys to the church.  Which door they entered by or left by is immaterial.

Enough of this tomfoolery.

The Mail wrote:Spanish police refused to comment on the potential sighting.

Madeleine's parents Gerry and Kate, from Rothley, Leicestershire, this week said they believe the four-year-old may have been smuggled out of Portugal into Spain.

Gerry McCann, 39, said: "We have always been interested in Spain because of its proximity to Portugal.

"If someone had a car, it's clear they could have crossed into Spain.

There is no border control and the frontier was not closed off on the night Madeleine disappeared.

"The possibility that Madeleine is alive and in Spain is very real.

"The border between the two countries is very big." Portuguese border police were not informed that Madeleine had gone missing until the morning of May 4 - the day after she vanished from the holiday apartment in Praia da Luz.

And members of the country's Borders and Aliens Service were only given a photograph of the toddler 12 hours after she disappeared.

The lapse would have given an abductor time to get across the border to Spain unchecked long before a lock-down was ordered by police.

Motorists routinely cross the border between Spain and Portugal without being stopped.

jaluky wrote: I understand your reluctance to consider any possible suggestion other than one that is in agreement with your view, keep an open mind as very few know the truth...