Re: Photographs Revisited - general

by Verdi 24.03.19 23:48

Next someone will be telling me that Madeleine had flowers in her hair, or there is some mysterious goings-on in the background.

by **Mainline** 24.03.19 23:50

Verdi wrote:Next someone will be telling me that Madeleine had flowers in her hair, or there is some mysterious goings-on in the background.

Or that pixelation proves that her fringe was digitally manipulated despite said degradation being complete over the whole photo in a literal grid of squares?

by Verdi 25.03.19 0:08

Is this photograph genuine or has it been photoshopped?

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Personally I think there's something suspicious about the bougainvillea, it doesn't look right.

by **Mainline** 25.03.19 0:17

Verdi wrote:Is this photograph genuine or has it been photoshopped?

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Personally I think there's something suspicious about the bougainvillea, it doesn't look right.

Jokes aside.

How fluid that picture looks without Quim Ze efit is masterful. Ironically more detailed than the much editted photo that introduced me to this conversation.

by Liz Eagles 25.03.19 0:27

I think it's suspicious Verdi. There's a woman on a sunlounger behind the tree reading a Winters and Goose novelette to a kangaroo...or is it me pixels playing up again.

by Verdi 25.03.19 0:38

aquila wrote:I think it's suspicious Verdi. There's a woman on a sunlounger behind the tree reading a Winters and Goose novelette to a kangaroo...or is it me pixels playing up again.

Post of the year high5

!

by Dannz 25.03.19 2:00

Verdi wrote:These photographs of apartment 5a interior, said to have been taken during the PJ's forensic examination of the crime scene, on 4th May 2007..

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Going over old ground - again, it's always struck me odd that there's little or no evidence of children having been there. No toys; no storybooks; no clothes thrown about; no crisp packets or half eaten biscuits; no crumbs or dirty drinking glasses; no sticky paw prints.

OK, it was the day after Madeleine's alleged disappearance but it was technically a crime scene so everything should have been left in place for forensic examination.

Yes, it is odd how child presence seems absent. Also there doesn’t seem to be much in the kitchen. Packs of cereal or bits and pieces that would expect around if they were having breakfast and lunch there. Also Mike Oldfield said in his interview that all the room had books.

by Verdi 25.03.19 11:34

Meanwhile, to add to that evidence - these are the only known photographs taken of Madeleine at the Ocean Club. Praia da Luz after the family's arrival on Saturday 28th April 2007. The authenticity of the tennis ball image is debatable..

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At the risk of repeating myself - again, this is just not normal. In the age of digital photography, folk take scores of snapshots when on holiday. Especially if they have kids on board.

Key evidence!

by skyrocket 28.03.19 8:10

@Tony - I have voted but can I take the liberty of asking a question OT as I know you were also involved in the discussion I'm trying to find again.

What I'm after is the link to the piece of video footage, posted several weeks ago, including the nannies walking about 5/6 children belonging to the Toddler 2 club, including the Mc twins, into the Tapas complex. Can't for the life of me remember who posted, but it was a long time member.

Cheers

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Topic moved to existing thread. Mod

by **Tony Bennett** 28.03.19 11:27

skyrocket wrote:@Tony - I have voted but can I take the liberty of asking a question OT as I know you were also involved in the discussion I'm trying to find again.

What I'm after is the link to the piece of video footage, posted several weeks ago, including the nannies walking about 5/6 children belonging to the Toddler 2 club, including the Mc twins, into the Tapas complex. Can't for the life of me remember who posted, but it was a long time member.

Cheers

@ skyrocket I'm very sorry, I missed this altogether. I didn't even know such a video existed.

I hope someone else unearths the link again.

It would be very important direct forensic evidence, depending however on one crucial evidential issue...namely ON WHAT DATE was that video taken?

@ phoebe You wrote: "Dr. Amaral and the P.J are experienced investigators into major crime...None of these experienced professionals concluded that it was impossible to have hidden the body and covered up the crime in the time between when Madeleine was last seen independently at high tea and the raising of the alarm. If it's good enough for those who are trained and vastly experienced in this field, then its good enough for me. Personally, I defer to their expertise".

REPLY: This is the laziest possible way to treat a case, replete with lies, half-truths, changes of story,multiple fabrications, clear evidence of a major degree of involvement by the British security services...and so much more. Besides that, the chief investigator was summarily thrown off the case after just five months, at an early stage in the investigations - and his replacement clearly seemed to have been appointed to ensure there was no prosecution of the McCanns.

The very idea that Catriona Baker was 'independent' and that she witnessed Madeleine at a high tea at about 5pm to 6pm on Thursday 3 May has been thoroughly demolished by comprehensive analyses by HideHo and a long segment of Richard Hall's film 'WHEN MADELEINE DIED'. And by others. The contradictions between the four alleged witnesses: Cat Baker, Kate McCann, Gerry McCann and Charlotte Pennington are wholly irreconcilable.

The idea that the PJ uncovered every available scrap of evidence there was to uncover about this case, by the time they archived it, is utterly laughable, as the research here on CMOMM and by people such as PeterMac and Dr Martin Roberts demonstrates.

Plus you contradict yourself.

You say, in terms, that the PJ were so experienced that they got everything right.

Yet when they say that Martin Smith was an 'unreliable' witness, you disagree with them.

by skyrocket 28.03.19 14:18

Tony, re: the video piece I'm trying to locate - thanks anyway and no problem, I've been trawling thru threads and will find it eventually. The video was POST the disappearance and was a journalist compilation lasting about 2/3 mins. It was stored on Alamy (photo library) or similar. My fault - should have saved it at the time!

by Verdi 28.03.19 15:18

skyrocket wrote:@Tony - I have voted but can I take the liberty of asking a question OT as I know you were also involved in the discussion I'm trying to find again.

What I'm after is the link to the piece of video footage, posted several weeks ago, including the nannies walking about 5/6 children belonging to the Toddler 2 club, including the Mc twins, into the Tapas complex. Can't for the life of me remember who posted, but it was a long time member.

Cheers

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I think you must be thinking of this..

I don't believe there is any video footage of the Ocean Club childcare workers leading a group of children into the complex that includes the McCann twins. It has no relevance anyway for the simple reason that any such images taken would have been after Madeleine's disappearance - it's a documented fact that the twins attended the creche after Madeleine's disappearance.

Back on topic please.

by skyrocket 28.03.19 16:19

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - nope not the one but thanks anyway. Found it now (2 hrs!) - actually does show the twins and Lily on 4 May but that wasn't the reason I was after it. If anyone's interested it's:
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But as you say back on topic and apologies.

by **Tony Bennett** 28.03.19 17:18

Verdi wrote:
skyrocket wrote:@Tony - I have voted but can I take the liberty of asking a question OT as I know you were also involved in the discussion I'm trying to find again.

What I'm after is the link to the piece of video footage, posted several weeks ago, including the nannies walking about 5/6 children belonging to the Toddler 2 club, including the Mc twins, into the Tapas complex. Can't for the life of me remember who posted, but it was a long time member.

Cheers

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I think you must be thinking of this..

I don't believe there is any video footage of the Ocean Club childcare workers leading a group of children into the complex that includes the McCann twins. It has no relevance anyway for the simple reason that any such images taken would have been after Madeleine's disappearance - it's a documented fact that the twins attended the creche after Madeleine's disappearance.

Back on topic please.

Can I just check on when this video was taken?

It wasn't on the morning of Friday 4 May - no journalists and cameramen were there by then.

It can't have been in the afternoon either...by the time of the start of the afternoon crèche, surely there weren't that many cameramen present?

Was it taken perhaps on Saturday 5 May? - if there was a crèche running that day?

Looking at this video again, and thinking about how distraught I might be if my first-born daughter had suddenly vanished, probably abducted, I very much doubt if I could walk my two two-year-old children to the crèche the next day and leave them there. I would want to cling to them for dear life - and sob my heart out.

But then maybe Gerry and Kate had people to see, calls to make, emails to send, and photos to edit, crop and delete

by Verdi 28.03.19 21:22

Tony wrote:But then maybe Gerry and Kate had people to see, calls to make, emails to send, and photos to edit, crop and delete

Nail hit firmly on head!

by skyrocket 29.03.19 8:57

Tony – thought I’d better transfer this over to a new thread to respond to your query (with credit to the original member who posted the video link a few weeks ago).

The footage:

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The only thing to go on is the details listed alongside the footage, which state SKY NEWS and 4 May (would this be incorrect?).

All I can add is:

-       Lily, Sean and Amelie are seen with 3 nannies and 3 other Toddler 2 children entering the Tapas complex through the secondary reception.
-       From just this continuous short clip it looks like the sun is coming from SSE so perhaps towards late morning.
-       There is a crèche sheet for the Toddler 2 group for Friday 4 May am (although it shows pm at the top). All 3 children named above are shown on the sheet: [url=http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01pages108-118 [112-120]/processopdf01page120-CrecheRecordsJ.jpg][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
-       The only 2 persons relating to SKY that I can recall being there on the 4 May were our matey John Clarke of the Olive Press, who states he arrived around 11.45am and ‘walked straight in to the apartment, where I introduced myself to the McCanns’, which seems highly unlikely as the Mcs were now in 5H or 4G, not 5A (which was closed off by then), not to mention the fact that the Mcs themselves were both in Portimao being interviewed by the PJ at that very time; and, Sky Weather Reporter, Jo Wheeler, who if I remember rightly had lived in Luz for quite a while and was commuting back to the UK weekly to work.
Clarke actually states that Sky News Reporter Kay Burley was there on holiday at the time and did some coverage but this may be confusion with Wheeler.
Read more on this thread: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

My interest in the clip was quite banal – I was just checking that the nannies around about 3 May were wearing the same MarkWarner tops/shorts as was seen in the parachute photo (the nanny shots of the 3 nannies pushing prams shows different shorts so I suspect these were taken in another season). The spotty shorts do seem to be 2007 issue.

One point to add about the parachute photo - who the heck gets a 6 metre parachute to work with small groups of 4/5 year olds (or any small group of kids). It would take a dozen adults to use the parachute shown as is intended i.e. off the ground.

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by **Tony Bennett** 29.03.19 9:47

skyrocket wrote:
Tony – thought I’d better transfer this over to a new thread to respond to your query (with credit to the original member who posted the video link a few weeks ago).

The footage:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The only thing to go on is the details listed alongside the footage, which state SKY NEWS and 4 May (would this be incorrect?).

All I can add is:

-       Lily, Sean and Amelie are seen with 3 nannies and 3 other Toddler 2 children entering the Tapas complex through the secondary reception.
-       From just this continuous short clip it looks like the sun is coming from SSE so perhaps towards late morning.
-       There is a crèche sheet for the Toddler 2 group for Friday 4 May am (although it shows pm at the top). All 3 children named above are shown on the sheet: [url=http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01pages108-118 [112-120]/processopdf01page120-CrecheRecordsJ.jpg][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
-       The only 2 persons relating to SKY that I can recall being there on the 4 May were our matey John Clarke of the Olive Press, who states he arrived around 11.45am and ‘walked straight in to the apartment, where I introduced myself to the McCanns’, which seems highly unlikely as the Mcs were now in 5H or 4G, not 5A (which was closed off by then), not to mention the fact that the Mcs themselves were both in Portimao being interviewed by the PJ at that very time; and, Sky Weather Reporter, Jo Wheeler, who if I remember rightly had lived in Luz for quite a while and was commuting back to the UK weekly to work.
Clarke actually states that Sky News Reporter Kay Burley was there on holiday at the time and did some coverage but this may be confusion with Wheeler.
Read more on this thread: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

My interest in the clip was quite banal – I was just checking that the nannies around about 3 May were wearing the same MarkWarner tops/shorts as was seen in the parachute photo (the nanny shots of the 3 nannies pushing prams shows different shorts so I suspect these were taken in another season). The spotty shorts do seem to be 2007 issue.

One point to add about the parachute photo - who the heck gets a 6 metre parachute to work with small groups of 4/5 year olds (or any small group of kids). It would take a dozen adults to use the parachute shown as is intended i.e. off the ground.

That is very very helpful - thanks a million!

Let me put it this way.

IF, IF, this video was taken on 4 May 2007, and IF, IF you're right that the time of this was mid-morning (and I agree with you that the direction of sun suggests that sort of time). THEN...

How come there is a bank of cameramen there on the spot so early that morning, clicking their cameras away...

AND

How come the McCanns are so casual, as if this is just one more day in their life?

Early footage is valuable forensic evidence. Is there anything else we can extract from it?

by Doug D 29.03.19 10:08

YY
I don’t think this is the one he means. There is a series of videos with Len Port walking round the pool, nannies coming out reception with youngsters etc and another one with nannies setting off up the hill outside reception with youngsters. I’ll see if I can find them later.

by sar 29.03.19 10:10

Tony Bennett wrote:
skyrocket wrote:
Tony – thought I’d better transfer this over to a new thread to respond to your query (with credit to the original member who posted the video link a few weeks ago).

The footage:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The only thing to go on is the details listed alongside the footage, which state SKY NEWS and 4 May (would this be incorrect?).

All I can add is:

-       Lily, Sean and Amelie are seen with 3 nannies and 3 other Toddler 2 children entering the Tapas complex through the secondary reception.
-       From just this continuous short clip it looks like the sun is coming from SSE so perhaps towards late morning.
-       There is a crèche sheet for the Toddler 2 group for Friday 4 May am (although it shows pm at the top). All 3 children named above are shown on the sheet: [url=http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01pages108-118 [112-120]/processopdf01page120-CrecheRecordsJ.jpg][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
-       The only 2 persons relating to SKY that I can recall being there on the 4 May were our matey John Clarke of the Olive Press, who states he arrived around 11.45am and ‘walked straight in to the apartment, where I introduced myself to the McCanns’, which seems highly unlikely as the Mcs were now in 5H or 4G, not 5A (which was closed off by then), not to mention the fact that the Mcs themselves were both in Portimao being interviewed by the PJ at that very time; and, Sky Weather Reporter, Jo Wheeler, who if I remember rightly had lived in Luz for quite a while and was commuting back to the UK weekly to work.
Clarke actually states that Sky News Reporter Kay Burley was there on holiday at the time and did some coverage but this may be confusion with Wheeler.
Read more on this thread: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

My interest in the clip was quite banal – I was just checking that the nannies around about 3 May were wearing the same MarkWarner tops/shorts as was seen in the parachute photo (the nanny shots of the 3 nannies pushing prams shows different shorts so I suspect these were taken in another season). The spotty shorts do seem to be 2007 issue.

One point to add about the parachute photo - who the heck gets a 6 metre parachute to work with small groups of 4/5 year olds (or any small group of kids). It would take a dozen adults to use the parachute shown as is intended i.e. off the ground.

That is very very helpful - thanks a million!

Let me put it this way.

IF, IF, this video was taken on 4 May 2007, and IF, IF you're right that the time of this was mid-morning (and I agree with you that the direction of sun suggests that sort of time). THEN...

How come there is a bank of cameramen there on the spot so early that morning, clicking their cameras away...

AND

How come the McCanns are so casual, as if this is just one more day in their life?

Early footage is valuable forensic evidence. Is there anything else we can extract from it?

...those look to be "professional establishing shots" 5 seconds, get your "in" 5 seconds, get out. Have a start point, middle and end. It seems like the children going out were just a coincidence. Why would you leave your kids in a creche if your daughter had just just been abducted? The just mental. The creche staff are being marshalled by 2 or 3 older adults? Looks very serious, hardly like a few kids going out for fun? Who are the figures in shadow? Staff wearing uniform, one kid one nanny (no groups of wee blonde girls rushing around, you couldn't tell them apart, no siree)

by Doug D 29.03.19 10:20

Skyrocket, I see you’ve found it. There are half a dozen or so of these videos from the first couple of days

by Verdi 29.03.19 14:47

The Getty video clip was posted by member DougD at the beginning of January this year.

The person featured at the start of the video is seasoned journalist Len Port, who currently resides in Portugual.

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by skyrocket 30.03.19 7:29

@DougD - thanks for the offer to look for the video I was looking for. Damn annoying when you can't find things you've ssen before (sign of ageing!).

by Star21 30.03.19 8:24

Is this it Skyrocket?

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by skyrocket 30.03.19 8:30

Hi [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - that's the one! Thanks very much for your efforts - should have said I managed to find it yesterday and posted it on another thread. Sorry if you've wasted any time on it. smilie

by Star21 30.03.19 8:33

No problem I just came across it on the Justice forum!

by skyrocket 30.03.19 8:43

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - has Len stated that he took the video clip of the kids club? From Len's shadow it looks about the same time - mid to late morning. I know he''s quite guarded about answering any questions asked of him (understandable).

by Doug D 30.03.19 11:27

These videos are from Sky, nothing to do with Len I don't think, he just 'stars' in them as he was wandering around that day.

They are all dated 4thMay.

Full index of the Sky videos as follows which is worth having for reference. I can't seem to embed the actual videos here for some reason.

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................................

Footage of the Mc’s leaving the OC for Portimao Police Station on the 4^th, with 16 more videos that can be accessed below it:

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.................................

Also for the bougainvillea doubters, some full blooms on the 4^th:

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by **PeterMac** 30.03.19 21:23

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Shadows indicate early morning.
Len says he was there around 0830.
That fits perfectly with the shadows.

But JonClarke has said he was the only journalist in Pdl until late that evening –
"and surely he is an Honourable man"

by Verdi 30.03.19 23:56

There are scores of stills and video clips to be found in the various press archives, mostly never widely publicised or researched - just goes to show they have little or no value other than proof of the extent of media presence at Luz the day following Madeleine's alleged disappearance.

It's time consuming to scour the archives and so far, twelve years down the line, there is nothing to show but a bit more glamour and a lot more speculation.

What was captured on camera after the event is of no importance, what was captured on camera before the event however is paramount - and that was .... what can I say?

There is nothing to be gained by scrutinizing what's presumed to be an image of childcare workers walking a group of children on 4th May 2007, had it been 3rd May then yes, it might be significant.

The McCann group contacted the UK late Thursday 3rd May/early 4th May. They contacted the Foreign Office, one member of the group had contacts at the BBC - the UK was alive to the news of missing Madeleine McCann from the word go. Not surprising that journalists were there on the scene very very early - it's what journalists do, they follow the stories always vying to be the first with the exclusive.

Madeleine jumping in the water to rescue her new found friend and the parachute story are utter nonsense. If there were any truth in it the detail would have been out there years ago.

Why waste time on cobblers.

by crispbee2000 13.01.20 17:08

Has anyone gone to the trouble of cataloguing all of the images issued of madeleine with details of where they first surfaced and who we believe the author was (where known)? I confess to being confused as to which images were released via Paul Grover to press and which were only released via the Jon Corner video and as to whether any of those later images have ever appeared as stills rather than screen grabs from the video (youtube etc.).

Cheers
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