Re: Photographs Revisited - general

by NickE 18.11.17 23:07

Should we swallow this airport video that easy?
What we are seeing is two video sequences.
The first one we can see a girl from behind on the steps.
The second one on an airport bus.
I suppose it would show that they arrived in Portugal because the step sequence comes first and the bus trip after, but the bus on this video is not the that kind of buses they used in Faro, I'am pretty sure this is a EMA bus.
And what happened to MbM's pink trolley bag?
It doesn't shows up on any photo from 5A.
Anything in the files that suggest that PJ kept it as evidence?

by **sharonl** 18.11.17 23:32

Tony Bennett wrote:
Verdi wrote:McCann Bus Video date as posted on Reuters 29th May 2007

00:36 seconds

anotheroneforjustice

It's surprising how much can be mined just from this 30-second clip.

For example:

1. It proves Madeleine was alive on Saturday 28 April (for the remaining few who think that she wasn't.

2. It meshes with the photos of Madeleine seen later in the day, when she was photographed three times in the Ocean Club playground, probably around 6pm.

3. We see quite a lot of body language in the video: (a) a carefree-looking Kate McCann with her arms closely entwined around the twins (b) a moody Gerry McCann away from the rest of the family (a mood that seems to carry through to the 'Last Photo' which he all now assume was taken the very next day) and (c) Madeleine uneasily in the middle, not close to either parent or to the twins.

4. We learn something about the bad language used by the McCanns.

5. We see Maddie stumbling on the airplane steps - a convenient incident used later when the McCanns were questioned about the possibility of Maddie's blood having been found in the apartment, IIRC they used a graze on her knee from the airplane steps as one of their excuses

6. Perhaps most revealing of all, we hear Gerry McCann moaning: "F___ off. I'm not here to enjoy myself", which is a truly staggering comment for any holidaymaker to make just as you are about to fly off for a week on the beautiful Algarve coast. No-one has yet sussed what he meant by that.

It would appear that it was David Payne who took the video, but no other videos from that holiday have been produced - one more indication, I feel, that something serious happened to Madeleine very early that week.

Incidentally, I think it is still something of a mystery why this little video was ever released. Did the McCanns themselves authorise this release? If so, for what possible purpose?

What I have always found worrying about this video is not so much why it was released but why it was filmed in the first place. Here we have four supposedly responsible adults, boarding a plane with five small children. They would be carrying hand luggage and anything that is necessary for these toddlers on the flight. You would assume that the priority would be the safety of these very young children, making sure that they board the aircraft safely and don't get separated from the group. The younger children would probably want to be carried. So why, at this point did Payne feel the need to let the kids run off to board the plane themselves whilst he got his camera out and started filming? Was Fiona carrying their youngest and the hand luggage?

What was the purpose of filming this video at an awkward time when the holiday hadn't even started and they obviously weren't travelling to F*****g enjoy themselves?

by Guest 19.11.17 0:01

Tony Bennett wrote:
Verdi wrote:McCann Bus Video date as posted on Reuters 29th May 2007

00:36 seconds

anotheroneforjustice

It's surprising how much can be mined just from this 30-second clip.

For example:

1. It proves Madeleine was alive on Saturday 28 April (for the remaining few who think that she wasn't.

2. It meshes with the photos of Madeleine seen later in the day, when she was photographed three times in the Ocean Club playground, probably around 6pm.

3. We see quite a lot of body language in the video: (a) a carefree-looking Kate McCann with her arms closely entwined around the twins (b) a moody Gerry McCann away from the rest of the family (a mood that seems to carry through to the 'Last Photo' which he all now assume was taken the very next day) and (c) Madeleine uneasily in the middle, not close to either parent or to the twins.

4. We learn something about the bad language used by the McCanns.

5. We see Maddie stumbling on the airplane steps - a convenient incident used later when the McCanns were questioned about the possibility of Maddie's blood having been found in the apartment, IIRC they used a graze on her knee from the airplane steps as one of their excuses

6. Perhaps most revealing of all, we hear Gerry McCann moaning: "F___ off. I'm not here to enjoy myself", which is a truly staggering comment for any holidaymaker to make just as you are about to fly off for a week on the beautiful Algarve coast. No-one has yet sussed what he meant by that.

It would appear that it was David Payne who took the video, but no other videos from that holiday have been produced - one more indication, I feel, that something serious happened to Madeleine very early that week.

Incidentally, I think it is still something of a mystery why this little video was ever released. Did the McCanns themselves authorise this release? If so, for what possible purpose?

It also confirms the arrival in Portugal of the McCann and Payne group.

Absence of photographs and video footage has always been a key factor in this fathomless intrigue for me. Above all else, I believe that is the most significant evidence of Madeleine arriving at Praia da Luz and the Ocean Club complex and not being seen nor heard of after the first hours/days of arrival.

It's not only the absence of McCann family photographs but the whole group. The only photographs on file being the Ocean Club playground that can't possibly be disputed and the black and white/gray scale images of the Payne group and one or two of their friends, mostly on a balcony but also a few at other locations. No O'Brien photographs, no Oldfield photographs, no McCann photographs apart from the *cough* obvious last photograph at the poolside. The Payne balcony photographs can easily be produced as the McCanns didn't join the group for their communal eating - 'allegedly', so one wouldn't expect Madeleine to have been photographed there.

This is just not normal - there has to be a reason. My guess the reason being that it would be positive evidence that Madeleine was not alive and well so they groomed the photographs to fit the storyline.

by NickE 19.11.17 7:13

Verdi wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
Verdi wrote:McCann Bus Video date as posted on Reuters 29th May 2007

00:36 seconds

anotheroneforjustice

It's surprising how much can be mined just from this 30-second clip.

For example:

1. It proves Madeleine was alive on Saturday 28 April (for the remaining few who think that she wasn't.

2. It meshes with the photos of Madeleine seen later in the day, when she was photographed three times in the Ocean Club playground, probably around 6pm.

3. We see quite a lot of body language in the video: (a) a carefree-looking Kate McCann with her arms closely entwined around the twins (b) a moody Gerry McCann away from the rest of the family (a mood that seems to carry through to the 'Last Photo' which he all now assume was taken the very next day) and (c) Madeleine uneasily in the middle, not close to either parent or to the twins.

4. We learn something about the bad language used by the McCanns.

5. We see Maddie stumbling on the airplane steps - a convenient incident used later when the McCanns were questioned about the possibility of Maddie's blood having been found in the apartment, IIRC they used a graze on her knee from the airplane steps as one of their excuses

6. Perhaps most revealing of all, we hear Gerry McCann moaning: "F___ off. I'm not here to enjoy myself", which is a truly staggering comment for any holidaymaker to make just as you are about to fly off for a week on the beautiful Algarve coast. No-one has yet sussed what he meant by that.

It would appear that it was David Payne who took the video, but no other videos from that holiday have been produced - one more indication, I feel, that something serious happened to Madeleine very early that week.

Incidentally, I think it is still something of a mystery why this little video was ever released. Did the McCanns themselves authorise this release? If so, for what possible purpose?
It also confirms the arrival in Portugal of the McCann and Payne group.

Absence of photographs and video footage has always been a key factor in this fathomless intrigue for me. Above all else, I believe that is the most significant evidence of Madeleine arriving at Praia da Luz and the Ocean Club complex and not being seen nor heard of after the first hours/days of arrival.

It's not only the absence of McCann family photographs but the whole group. The only photographs on file being the Ocean Club playground that can't possibly be disputed and the black and white/gray scale images of the Payne group and one or two of their friends, mostly on a balcony but also a few at other locations. No O'Brien photographs, no Oldfield photographs, no McCann photographs apart from the *cough* obvious last photograph at the poolside. The Payne balcony photographs can easily be produced as the McCanns didn't join the group for their communal eating - 'allegedly', so one wouldn't expect Madeleine to have been photographed there.

This is just not normal - there has to be a reason. My guess the reason being that it would be positive evidence that Madeleine was not alive and well so they groomed the photographs to fit the storyline.

How is that confirmed?

by NickE 19.11.17 10:07

This is from the "airport video":
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

This is from the tarmac at East Midlands Airport:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Exactly the same railing at the termac on East Midlands Airport as in the background in the "airport video"

This is to the left of Gerry, we can see a window and a door.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

This is the kind of buses(Cobus) that operates at East Midlands Airport:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Exactly the same kind of bus as in the "Airport video"

This is the buses that have been operated on the Faro Airport termac.
No doors on the left side at the back of the buses.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
My conclusion, the "Airport video"was filmed at the East Midlands Airport, not in Faro.

by skyrocket 19.11.17 11:19

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - interesting.

by skyrocket 19.11.17 11:31

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - interesting.

There are a number of points about this video which just don't seem right.

If you go to full screen and then move forward by frame (by clicking the time bar at the bottom) from 3 seconds to 7 seconds, 'Madeleine's' hair seems to change. Particularly at 7 seconds when she almost appears to have pigtails with her neckline visible. I'd be interested to know what others think about this.

I still find it hard to believe that a father who teaches his daughter (MBM) to say, 'Yes daddy' instead of 'Uh huh' (Xmas chocolate clip), and tells her it is rude to point (piggy back clip with cousins), freely says 'f*** o**!', infront of his own and a bus load of other people's young children. Incongruous. GM looks/acts like a petulent teenager who is being made to do something he doesn't want to do. Very odd.

** I'm having trouble posting at the moment - large chunks of text wipe out when I press send. Only works ok if I type in Word and then copy across. Any reason this has started happening anyone?

by Guest 19.11.17 12:40

Posts have been moved here from the Video of the Day thread, which is not intended to be a general discussion forum. Please use this thread to discuss anomalies in photographs relevant to Madeleine McCann.

Thank you.

by skyrocket 19.11.17 13:06

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] – no problem.

As @TB’s post kick-started the discussion about the airport video please could you move it over as well.

Thanks

by **Jill Havern** 19.11.17 13:34

skyrocket wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] – no problem.

As @TB’s post kick-started the discussion about the airport video please could you move it over as well.

Thanks

Both Verdi and I have had problems posting today (as you also have apparently!) - I wasn't able to move the posts myself so I asked Verdi to do it for me and he struggled too.

Tony's post is embedded in Sharon's post, so I think we'll just leave it at that for now and quit while we're ahead!

by Guest 19.11.17 13:41

skyrocket wrote:There are a number of points about this video which just don't seem right.

If you go to full screen and then move forward by frame (by clicking the time bar at the bottom) from 3 seconds to 7 seconds, 'Madeleine's' hair seems to change. Particularly at 7 seconds when she almost appears to have pigtails with her neckline visible. I'd be interested to know what others think about this.

It's a REALLY low res video with all kinds of compression artifacts.

I don't see anything unusual for this kind of video.

I still find it hard to believe that a father who teaches his daughter (MBM) to say, 'Yes daddy' instead of 'Uh huh' (Xmas chocolate clip), and tells her it is rude to point (piggy back clip with cousins), freely says 'f*** o**!', infront of his own and a bus load of other people's young children. Incongruous. GM looks/acts like a petulent teenager who is being made to do something he doesn't want to do. Very odd.

Do as I say not as I do.

Lot's of parents are like that.

by skyrocket 19.11.17 14:37

@GeG – thanks for the explanation, fine by me.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] – thanks for the feedback.

by NickE 19.11.17 15:29

skyrocket wrote:
[size=32][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] – no problem.[/size]

[size=32]As @TB’s post kick-started the discussion about the airport video please could you move it over as well.[/size]

[size=32]Thanks[/size]

Agree, TB's post should also be moved here because my post was meant to be a reply to his.

Edit: I didn't saw G2G's post re technical problems.

by **HiDeHo** 19.11.17 16:01

Thanks NickE for bus comparison pics.

I have added them to a handy graphic if thats ok with you?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by nglfi 19.11.17 16:33

Can I ask where the images of East Midlands airport came from? Are they photographs?

by NickE 19.11.17 16:53

nglfi wrote:Can I ask where the images of East Midlands airport came from? Are they photographs?

I had a better photo with the railing next to the road where the buses go.
On this photo we can see both the railing and the bus with the backdoor and the small window that we can see to the left of Gerry in "the airport video"

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Mrs B 19.11.17 17:24

Hi all. I'm new here but have been following the case for the past couple of years. I am very much of the opinion that Madeline died in the appartment days before the 3rd and that the abduction theory was (and still is) a cover up.

I do however personally believe that Gerry's "I'm not here to have fun" comment was tongue in cheek. The kind of sarcastic comment that someone would make to make light of the fact he/she is known as being a miserable so-and-so. Just my feeling. :)

by Guest 19.11.17 17:51

HiDeHo wrote:Thanks NickE for bus comparison pics.

I have added them to a handy graphic if thats ok with you?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Yes it could be and probably is East Midlands.

I don't see how that changes anything.

I always wondered how this video got into the public domain so early?

Was it a "don't **** with me, I can destroy you" video?

By a process of elimination we can say who recorded it.

by **HiDeHo** 19.11.17 18:05

BlueBag wrote:
HiDeHo wrote:Thanks NickE for bus comparison pics.

I have added them to a handy graphic if thats ok with you?

Yes it could be and probably is East Midlands.

I don't see how that changes anything.

I don't personally see any relevance but we often have to answer members that have theories based on where the video was taken.

A handy graphic is easy to post to 'confirm' the location.

I learned a long time ago that giving repeated info for lots of topics was far easier with handy dandy graphics. I have about 300 now covering the most requested topics :)

by NickE 19.11.17 18:24

BlueBag wrote:
HiDeHo wrote:Thanks NickE for bus comparison pics.

I have added them to a handy graphic if thats ok with you?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Yes it could be and probably is East Midlands.

I don't see how that changes anything.

I always wondered how this video got into the public domain so early?

Was it a "don't **** with me, I can destroy you" video?

By a process of elimination we can say who recorded it.

Perhaps it doesn't change anything but there is two sequences in this video.
The first one where a girl climbing on the stairs to a airplane.
The second on where they are going with a shuttle bus on a airport.
How many of all the people who have seen this video think they are in Portugal when they are going with the shuttle bus?
I'am pretty sure most of the people who have seen this video think they are in Portugal.
On East Midlands, the film sequences should be in this order.
1: Shuttle bus
2: Stairs to the airplane.
Why is it vice versa?
Have they done it to look like they arrived in Portugal in this video?
I think they did.
This is from Reuters:
"The video clips, taken on a mobile phone, show Madeleine climbing the stairs onto a flight at East Midlands Airport and then sitting on an airport bus in the Algarve.
The footage is the latest attempt by her distraught parents Kate and Gerry McCann to maintain public awareness of the case of their daughter, who disappeared on May 3 from a holiday resort on the Algarve."

by **Jill Havern** 19.11.17 18:55

Mrs B wrote:Hi all. I'm new here

No you're not...Please don't try to pull the wool over the eyes of an admin. thumbsup

by Mrs B 19.11.17 19:10

I don't understand?????

by Mrs B 19.11.17 19:11

Oh sorry, I have been following this website for a while yes but I've only just registered. :)

by bobbin 19.11.17 19:32

BlueBag wrote:
HiDeHo wrote:Thanks NickE for bus comparison pics.

I have added them to a handy graphic if thats ok with you?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Yes it could be and probably is East Midlands.

I don't see how that changes anything.

I always wondered how this video got into the public domain so early?

Was it a "don't **** with me, I can destroy you" video?

By a process of elimination we can say who recorded it.

Kate appears to be wearing blue jeans in the above photos. I seem to recall that she did not have blue jeans on her Portuguese holiday. I am possibly wrong here. Can anyone shine any light on 'blue jeans' references. If the video sequence is muddled up, could the recording, or parts of it, be getting onto an EMA flight to Ireland.

by **Jill Havern** 19.11.17 19:41

bobbin wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
HiDeHo wrote:Thanks NickE for bus comparison pics.

I have added them to a handy graphic if thats ok with you?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Yes it could be and probably is East Midlands.

I don't see how that changes anything.

I always wondered how this video got into the public domain so early?

Was it a "don't **** with me, I can destroy you" video?

By a process of elimination we can say who recorded it.
Kate appears to be wearing blue jeans in the above photos. I seem to recall that she did not have blue jeans on her Portuguese holiday. I am possibly wrong here. Can anyone shine any light on 'blue jeans' references. If the video sequence is muddled up, could the recording, or parts of it, be getting onto an EMA flight to Ireland.

Yes, she did have jeans.

The photo of Kate and Gerry with the twins at the park.

Plus abduction night she was wearing jeans.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by worriedmum 19.11.17 21:48

The two bigger girls appear to have the clear polythene bags with magazines in that they are carrying up the steps also next to them on the seats.(Children's welcome packs?)
I have been trying to figure out what the female voices are saying to David Payne...

by **Tony Bennett** 19.11.17 22:31

NickE wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
HiDeHo wrote:Thanks NickE for bus comparison pics.

I have added them to a handy graphic if thats ok with you?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Yes it could be and probably is East Midlands.

I don't see how that changes anything.

I always wondered how this video got into the public domain so early?

Was it a "don't **** with me, I can destroy you" video?

By a process of elimination we can say who recorded it.
Perhaps it doesn't change anything but there is two sequences in this video.
The first one where a girl climbing on the stairs to a airplane.
The second on where they are going with a shuttle bus on a airport.
How many of all the people who have seen this video think they are in Portugal when they are going with the shuttle bus?
I'am pretty sure most of the people who have seen this video think they are in Portugal.
On East Midlands, the film sequences should be in this order.
1: Shuttle bus
2: Stairs to the airplane.
Why is it vice versa?
Have they done it to look like they arrived in Portugal in this video?
I think they did.
This is from Reuters:
"The video clips, taken on a mobile phone, show Madeleine climbing the stairs onto a flight at East Midlands Airport and then sitting on an airport bus in the Algarve.
The footage is the latest attempt by her distraught parents Kate and Gerry McCann to maintain public awareness of the case of their daughter, who disappeared on May 3 from a holiday resort on the Algarve."

re: "Perhaps it doesn't change anything but there is two sequences in this video.
The first one where a girl climbing on the stairs to a airplane.
The second on where they are going with a shuttle bus on a airport.
How many of all the people who have seen this video think they are in Portugal when they are going with the shuttle bus?"

REPLY: I don't think it does change anything. Your research is very valuable BUT I personally always assumed that the airport bus video was taken on the way to the plane at EM Airport.

re: "The video clips, taken on a mobile phone, show Madeleine climbing the stairs onto a flight at East Midlands Airport and then sitting on an airport bus in the Algarve.
The footage is the latest attempt by her distraught parents Kate and Gerry McCann to maintain public awareness of the case of their daughter, who disappeared on May 3 from a holiday resort on the Algarve."

REPLY: Now that is interesting. I guess there are really two main possibilities (1) the McCanns and/or their agents misled Reuters (2) Some kind of genuine misunderstanding due to mis-communication.

sharonl's question upthread was interesting: WHY were these two 15-second clips taken at all?

THE PHOTOGRAPHS REVISITED

This is where we seem to be now with the photos of the holiday featuring Madeleine:

1 15-second video on East Midlands Airport bus - Saturday lunchtime
2 15-second video on East Mildands Airport tarmac - Saturday lunchtime
3,4,5, Three still photos of Madeleine in Ocean Club playground - Saturday late afternoon or early evening
6 'Last Photo' by the pool - evidence suggests this was taken on Sunday lunchtime
7 Disturbing 'Make-Up Photo' - several definite indications that this could have been taken on Sunday afternoon
AFTER THAT, NOTHING, NO VIDEOS, NO STILL PHOTOS
(unless you include the 'Tennis Balls Photo' which was allegedly taken by different people on different cameras on two completely different days and where there are multiple indications that the description by Kate McCann of how she came to take that photo does not match what we see in the photo - see especially PeterMac's analysis of this photo)
IN SUMMARY
Saturday - two videos and three still photos
Sunday - two still photos
Monday - NOTHING
Tuesday - NOTHING
Wednesday - NOTHING
Thursday - NOTHING

by Guest 22.11.17 12:31

Tony Bennett wrote:
THE PHOTOGRAPHS REVISITED

This is where we seem to be now with the photos of the holiday featuring Madeleine:

1 15-second video on East Midlands Airport bus - Saturday lunchtime
2 15-second video on East Mildands Airport tarmac - Saturday lunchtime
3,4,5, Three still photos of Madeleine in Ocean Club playground - Saturday late afternoon or early evening
6 'Last Photo' by the pool - evidence suggests this was taken on Sunday lunchtime
7 Disturbing 'Make-Up Photo' - several definite indications that this could have been taken on Sunday afternoon
AFTER THAT, NOTHING, NO VIDEOS, NO STILL PHOTOS
(unless you include the 'Tennis Balls Photo' which was allegedly taken by different people on different cameras on two completely different days and where there are multiple indications that the description by Kate McCann of how she came to take that photo does not match what we see in the photo - see especially PeterMac's analysis of this photo)
IN SUMMARY
Saturday - two videos and three still photos
Sunday - two still photos
Monday - NOTHING
Tuesday - NOTHING
Wednesday - NOTHING
Thursday - NOTHING

To me the most significant piece to complete the puzzle - no photographs of Madeleine (other than those you identify), nor the rest of the group other than the black/white/grey-scale photographs included in the PJ files, which would again appear to be the Payne's doing. I can't see anything to be gained by picking over the short airport clips, there could be any number of explanations as to why/where/when; unless it's being suggested that the group traveling from the East Midlands is a hoax - in which case I'm totally perplexed.

Snipped from David Payne's rogatory interview in April 2008..

485 "Okay. Did you take any photos on the night at the Tapas bar''

Reply "No I didn't.'

1485 "Did anybody take any photos''

Reply "Err''

1485 "Before Kate obviously raised the alarm.'

Reply "Not that I'm aware of. There wasn't, normally we're quite snap happy but err we've only got a few pictures from the second of May, then the third of May and then you know a few days until err so there wasn't a great deal of pictures being taken err you know obviously there was a few here and there, Jane's quite keen on photography, I know she takes some nice pictures and I'd taken some in the play area on the, the, err the night before and we've also got pictures of the, the afternoon from the beach and from the restaurant and then the play area again and there's some pictures of us playing tennis err with the times on, so you know that's about the last pictures that I can recall. I've got our pictures and I've got Dianne's pictures but I've certainly not seen anybody else's err completely.
----------

At the risk of being repetitive, this is just not normal. Families take scores of photographs when on holiday, more so since the availability of digital cameras and mobile phones.

The PJ were very interested in the seeing the groups photographs (video footage as well as stills?), as was Leicester police and more significantly Jim Gamble ex of the CEOP, who was most anxious for holidaymakers to send their photographs to the CEOP. This was on the pretext that photographs might show a suspicious character lurking in the vicinity of the McCann family or the Ocean Cub resort. Surely, the Tapas group's photographs/videos would be more useful in this respect?

Someone videoed the airport footage - why no video nor snapshots of the children on the beach; in the playground; at the Tapas high tea; playing mini tennis; in the crèche; on the balcony; in or around the kiddies pool; sammy snake; in the apartments?

Of course you can't be convicted by a court of law for not taking holiday photographs but it sure is a huge red flag from the perspective of a police investigation into the disappearance of a three year old child!

ETA: It needs to be asked why the McCanns and their friends were so reluctant to hand over their photographic equipment to the police.

by Guest 22.11.17 12:38

The lack of photographs is indeed a huge red flag.

Maybe friends and families of the McCanns and Tapas group - who read this forum (they surely do) - can ask them about it.

by Guest 22.11.17 12:48

In terms of trying to identify the last time Madeleine was seen alive and well, I think it's the most significant indication along with confirmation of the groups movements during the week. An aspect that has never been properly investigated, an impossible task with only the Tapas groups witness statements to guide.

Witness statements can't be relied upon, photograph evidence however could be crucial. This I feel is the most likely reason for the absence of photographs and the groups reluctance to cooperate with the PJ by handing over their camera equipment.