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What happened to Maddie? Part One: Medication

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What happened to Maddie? Part One: Medication

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 09.05.17 21:59

Posted on CMOMM facebook - apologies for the formatting:

Alan Vinnicombe‎ to Madeleine McCann abduction or scam ?
May 7 at 8:08pm


What happened to Maddie?

PART ONE: Medication

Now the 10-year media frenzy week of cover up at all costs is over, including the UK police mantra that the parents were not involved, I think it's high time we all turned our thoughts to just what are they covering up and why?

It's almost lost in the forest of sympathy on one hand, and analysing the cases mountain of flaws, but not what happened on the other.

So what actually happened to poor Maddie? In ten years of research, I suppose it's time to put my thoughts together.
Not least because it's become almost a forgotten taboo topic.

Have to start that this is all IMO only. I can't prove it, but hey, know what nor can the McCann's. So we start on a level playing field. If you think about it, the abduction is just their opinion, so far from being ''Oh haven't the parents suffered enough''. 

My viewpoint is, has Maddie's suffering at the time been forgotten and sanitised? A bit like we call a cow 'beef'. Almost to put distance between the reality and the unpalatable truth.

We just don't want to think about it, let alone talk about what Maddie must have gone through. It's all about the 'poor woe is me' Mum and Dad in the MSM. The apologists never, and I mean never mention Maddie, and as the McCann's put it "The situation Madeleine finds herself in". Not their fault, so they distance themselves and they even blame the 3-year-old.

Purely because we, as caring people, with an interest in finding the truth, can't bare to think about the reason for what is now bigger than the world's most famous similar case.... Princess Diana.
She's now almost pushed into history, whereas the McCann's hold the media's attention as if it happened yesterday!
Why is that? Is it simply the public just don't believe them for a myriad of reasons!
So we can only base an opinion on known info, this is mine the tapas crew's holiday were couples and Diana Webster.
It seems the plan was to use this complex so they could play sports, have some time off from the chores of being parents, and drink a lot of (included) free wine over dinner. Being doctors, just maybe they used drugs to get the children to sleep early and stay that way. If I'm right, then my feelings are this was the cause of a tragic accident!
As Maddie is gone, we need to look at the twins, ascertaining if drugs were in use.
Kate McCann entered the apartment in the holiday resort and reported Madeleine missing. The younger twins were still in their travel cots in the same room and were asleep.
Somehow they stayed that way, despite lights being on, people everywhere shouting and searching frantically, alongside police turning up!
Still asleep, I'm thinking the parents are now worried that even Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dee cops will notice they are drugged!
What to do.... they can't go and shake them, [bit of a clue]! So, right, let's drop to the floor wailing like Arabs slamming the ground, to IMO wake the twins.
That would explain the mystery of this out of character strange behaviour. In the face of all of this, still the twins did not wake up!
Diane Webster - Fiona Payne’s mother: “Err the twins were still asleep in the cot and I, with all the noise going on, I don’t know how they slept through it which makes me think there was, they must have been err drugged with something.”
Well then I will take her word for it. On second thoughts, no, let's dig some more!
Gerry McCann: "The twins were still sleeping in their cots so . . . we tried to leave it as undisturbed as possible, and they slept very soundly until we moved them out of their cots into another apartment". Which does make you wonder if there were any substances used to keep them asleep?
Kate McCann: "I believe the kidnapper drugged my twins on the night Madeleine was taken". Kate McCann said the kidnapper who seized Madeleine may also have drugged her other two children.
TAKE HER WORD FOR IT SHE KNOWS MORE THEN US.
Kate McCann added that she had to check that twins Sean and Amelie were still breathing because they did not wake as they began a frantic search for the missing three-year-old.
RIGHT, ITS FAIR TO AGREE WITH THEM YES, THEY WERE DRUGGED....
And by implication Maddie as well!
So moving on, who drugged them?
1. A burglar? I am saying it on the verge of impossible. They don't carry drugs around to wake up children and administer with a spoon or glass of water. No, not having that.
2. A lone paedophile snatching Maddie? Umm.. why drug the twins? "Excuse me, wake up, drink this Calpol in huge doses, while I sort your sister out".Umm, no, not having that!
Of course, you can say that they put a cloth of Chloroform over them, but the odour of Chloroform would linger and a 'trained' anaesthetist would know that.
Chloroform is not an efficient sedative.
From the moment of unconsciousness, there is generally a 10–15-minute window where a patient is asleep. The twins were comatose for 10 hours.
Kate McCann and Fiona Payne are both qualified anaesthetists. I'm sure they should be able to recognise the difference between a child that is asleep, and one that was sedated or worse, comatose.
3. The parents who had drugs with them, and being doctors, could safely administer them to ensure the kids stayed quiet. After getting complaints one evening of crying, could have upped the doses.
SO IMO... YES, ALL THREE WERE DRUGGED. And the prime suspect for this was the parents. We know they will lie to suit the evidence provided, so now it's fair to say we have 3 children drugged. The last people to see Maddie were the McCann's. And the fact is, we can't believe a word they say.
Of course, like chameleons changing colour to suit the occasion, resort to blatant lies.
Oprah Winfrey "And then, there were the... the hurtful rumours that you drugged Madeleine or that you gave her sedatives; that you accidentally caused her... her death..."
KM: "I mean we know it's all lies."
GM: "It's just nonsense you know, there's no... that people can have theories and that's all it is, there's no evidence to suggest any of that and it's absolutely ludicrous".
(But you told us they were sedated? Oops, of course, can't say that on here or an accident was a possibility?)
Put that alongside this...
Goncalo Amaral
From Ricardo Paiva (Inspector)...
Strangely, Kate also made several requests. Three months after the disappearance of Madeleine, that the police should take blood, hair and nail tests of Madeleine's twin siblings, because, as she said, she remembered that on the day of Madeleine's disappearance, in spite of all the commotion and noise made by the authorities and other persons who were looking for Madeleine in apartment 5A of the OC, the twins never woke up, having been transported to another apartment. They remained asleep, due to which she now presumes that they were under the effect of some sedative drug, that a presumed abductor had administered to the three children in order to be able to abduct Madeleine. A situation which Kate refers to as being possible. According to what she read in a criminal investigation manual given to her by the British authorities, that would have been the procedure of the abductor in the real case involving abduction, rape and murder of the girl.
(She knew well enough at that time, more than 3 months later, that such an examination would be fruitless).
In view of the fact that the twins didn’t wake up despite the noise, it would have made sense for the PJ to test the twins for common sedatives or chloroform, sleeping gas, etc., way back then, wouldn’t it, why weren't they?
Maddie we know was a bad sleeper, admitted by the McCann's.
Kate's father, the grandfather Brian Healy, admits to the press "that Kate could have administered some medication to the little girl, Calpol, to help the child (children) to sleep", contrary to what his daughter Kate had stated.
When they travelled on holiday to Portugal they brought several medicines, namely Calpol, Nurofen, for fevers and pains, both for adults and children, Losec for gastric problems that he occasionally suffers from, and an antihistamine called Terfenadine, for hay fever.
this is a massive clue only seen on a live sky interview, and removed within a few hours, but I'm going to include it as it was seen by so many here's one witness
''Yes I saw the interview on TV....Sky have it in their archives...Anyone want to ask Martin Brunt to do a search...it was the 4th or 5th May...Mrs Healy was standing in her garden...and said kate used to sedate madeleine That's how we knew she would not have wandered off...
Madeleine used to sleep walk...I believe a member of the family said that twice she was found outside the house...
hang on let that sink in we know she hadn't wondered off because she was sedated by Kate, now that is proof but it is not in print so I can't swear to it being a fact.
And then Kate is absolutely certain she could not have wandered off how was she so certain.
Detective Amaral found a sleep star chart which interested him ...
MADELEINE SLEEPS BADLY
One of the police officers who went to the McCanns' home in England, reported that a medical monitoring chart for Madeleine was posted in the kitchen. This referred to her sleep problems and made clear that she was waking several times in the night. The paternal grandfather stated that Kate gave the little girl - and also the twins - Calpol, a medication designed to facilitate falling asleep. That seems to be a common practice in Great Britain; they even talk about a "Calpol generation." In recent years, the possible presence of an antihistamine with sedative effects in Calpol has aroused great controversy. Recently, the same laboratory put Calpol Night on the market, whose ingredients clearly list that it contains an antihistamine.
We need to remember the police questions, as Kate said they were loaded. Of course, they were loaded. With the evidence recovered and her needing to explain more, she doesn't, as it might incriminate her. Well, right again... you're a suspect. "No comment" is the all-time known comment of someone with things to hide. Obviously, the expensive advice was taken.
With regards to medication, she was asked....
"Why did the twins not wake up during that search or when they were taken upstairs"?
[ did you give them drugs to sleep]?
"Are the twins difficult to get to sleep? Are they restless and does that cause you uneasiness"?
[are you thinking better to give them something to help them sleep?)
"Is it true that sometimes you despaired with your children’s behaviour and that left you feeling very uneasy"?
[do you get angry with them?)
"Is it true that in England you even considered handing over Madeleine’s custody to a relative"?
[ was it so bad that you couldn't be trusted with her and why just maddie]?
"In England, did you medicate your children? What type of medication"?
[ we have info that you did use Calpol are you going to admit it ?)
So you see why the no comment?
WHERE ARE WE WITH THE INFORMATION WE HAVE SO FAR?
I can safely predict....
Maddie was drugged on a regular basis on this holiday and before.
The twins were heavily sedated on the third, too heavily by all accounts
The parents were quite happy to lie about the events, as proven by the book, the files and tv appearances.
The McCann's are suspected for good reason. The Arab routine proves they are clever and looking for a way to distract suspicion.
The last people to see her alive were the parents, in this, we know there's over 90%chance they are involved .
We forget the McCanns are only expounding a theory, are we duty bound to believe people that have been caught out lying and changing statements as they see fit!
So far I think the evidence I've put forward is better than, just words!
We have to remember it doesn't matter how many times they say it, whoever tells you they are doctors and must be believed!
We have a choice, and so far I'm ahead of them, after all, I've proved they are prepared to lie to suit the occasion.
We leave it for now, in that perilous situation, of... what else are they covering up?
[In part two we look at what happened could Maddie vanish into thin air.]
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Re: What happened to Maddie? Part One: Medication

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 10.05.17 13:24

Alan Vinnicombe's post.
4 hrs


Here's Part 2. It's worth reading Part 1 first (posted by Debbie a few hours ago)





Alan Vinnicombe‎ to Madeleine McCann abduction or scam ?
May 8 at 1:39pm


What happened to Maddie?…
PART TWO Child Neglect /Abduction
According to the police investigation, Madeleine had died, they hid her body and simulated an abduction… neglect is a cover to that accusation!
Most MSM seems to think that the McCanns did nothing wrong, based on the nothing more than the fact the are doctors and know best.
We know one of the group was missing most nights at the Tapas bar why they didn’t claim that the children were being watched by one of the group.
Easy to claim the children were being watched to avoid suggestions they were being neglected.
I think one of the group was babysitting each night, why insist neglect many things have been sued for, but they seem to like criticism for neglect.
The mantra that is constant is about leaving the children alone in the apartment while they went to dinner at the tapas?
Why is this simply they had to say they were leaving the children alone so there was an opportunity for an ‘abductor’!
We know they were counting the pennies, always eating on site as it including drinks instead of trying restaurants in town, a waiter said that a few times the meal had to be reheated why? the person that was watching the children was relieved and able to get to the table for the meal?
Did they really want to be leaving the table every 30 mins checking on everyone's kids? They were obviously wealthy people, why didn't they just put all the children to bed in one apartment and pay the 15 euros per hour for a shared babysitter?
8 in total
Jane Tanner and her partner Russell O'Brien have two young daughters.
Matthew Oldfield and wife Rachael have two children.
David Payne and his wife Fiona Payne have one child.
Plus the three McCann children, Madeleine being the eldest of the eight children, one of the other girls was born around the time Madeleine.
Even refuting they weren’t watching the children every 15 minutes as Sandra Felgueiras suggested by saying it was every 30 mins, once you take away neglect what are you are left with? you're left with they can't blame anyone else, they would be responsible for her, can't have that, can we.
Starkly McCanns would have explain the truth about what happened to Madeleine?
In order to determine what happened, we need to get to the bottom of this crucial conundrum.
From the Mail, let's start with this
Kate McCann breaks down in tears in a television documentary as she speaks of the night Madeleine went missing and her decision to leave her daughter alone because there were no baby listening services at the resort.
She gave a rare insight into the thought process that led her and her husband, Gerry, to leave their three children in their Mark Warner holiday apartment while they had dinner nearby, checking them every half an hour.
Mrs McCann is understood to say that they would have used a baby listening service had one been available, but because there wasn't they decided to leave Madeleine and their twins, Sean and Amelie, and make regular checks.
The McCanns have previously used Mark Warner resorts where baby listening services were available.
In the aftermath of Madeleine's disappearance, her husband, Gerry, said they felt regular parental checks provided the same service, adding: "I would argue that what we were doing was actually more rigorous than that, with multiple people from the group checking the apartments at staggered times.''
[Already the complex backfilling blame everyone else but us, kicks in, the baby listening service was not advertised]
A spokesman for Mark Warner said the McCanns, from Rothley, Leics, knew before they booked to go to Praia da Luz that no listening service was available. However, the company did have on offer an evening creche and babysitting facilities.
The holiday firm withdrew its baby listening services at all its complexes last October over confusion about the level of security they provide.
So the team mac are saying they all slept in different apartments and checked religiously every 30 mins all week, I'm saying rubbish they all were in the same apartment and the took turns to babysit each night, how do I know this, I have an answer for you.
Tuesday night 1st May the night of the crying incident, according to Pamela Fenn, who lived in the apartment directly above 5A.
She gave a statement to the PJ that she heard a child crying in 5A from 10.30pm to 11.45pm. She also stated that from the sound it was a child older than the twins and that the crying stopped after she heard the patio door being opened by the parents when they returned.
Most important bit of this post ***
Il use their own statements to hang their evidence,
Maddie was crying for one hour 15 mins a huge amount of time heartbreaking really, haven't you noticed much longer then the 30 min checks, if fact it covers 2 checks at least!
The CHECKS COULDNT HAVE HAPPENED? could they?
So they checks was just a cover story and a lie IMO
The abduction could only happen while she was left alone when it was very probable that she died for another reason and ‘abduction’ and ‘neglect’ was the way they could explain her disappearance,
While the press were debating the parenting issues of neglect and who was the abductor, Maddie was slowly forgotten, the world of pros and antis, fought out the debate, trolls and saintly McCann's followers!
Perfect storm for team McCann no one asking what really happened, confusion is good, safe in the knowledge that if charged with neglect the had amazing lawyers, to get them off within the realms of responsible parenting, prove otherwise?
So much better than the truth…which was that the children were being babysat together, the fact is she died and they had to hide the truth this was the only way possible.
The fact remains that her Daddy hadn’t been there to hear Madeleine screaming and sobbing: ‘Daddy, Daddy’ for 75 minutes on Tuesday evening.so that they can go drinking and be having a laugh, you give those children medication so not having a worry that your children might wake up and be scared, might be crying, or worse get out on bed toddlers remember, even that they might get up and start looking for you, or worse have an accident !
The fact they are doctors and know the risks, made them go down this route as a safe option it was until disaster struck.
I agree with the PJ conclusions
Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida of the Polícia Judiciária in Portimão signed a nine-page report concluding that Madeleine had died in apartment 5A as a result of an accident, that the meal in the tapas restaurant and apparent regular checks on the McCann children had been part of the cover-up, that the Tapas Seven had helped to mislead the police.and that the McCanns had concealed the body, then faked an abduction.
let's recap what we have on the guilty side so far we think,
Madeleine had died in apartment 5A
McCanns had concealed the body,
Faked an abduction.
All three children subdued with drugs
The McCann's lie in statements
There were no 30 min checks apart from the 3rd may
The children were all in one room babysat in a nightly rota
That person was relieved to have their meal in the tapas that why the staff said people were leaving the table.
Abduction /neglect was a cover story to save them.
Tapas Seven had helped to mislead the police.
On the innocent side
Frankly, I can find zero evidence of abduction or even the lesser charge of neglect!
The parent's word is sacrosanct.
We do have the word of Gerry
Q: Did you kill your daughter?
GM: - No…no…never…and you know, there’s nothing with any logic that could, you know, you’d have to start with why, you know, how, when, who and tha…that’s just simply you know that’s what any these things are there’s nothing to suggest anything so no – that’s an emphatic no.
[ phew surely just NO]
But they do have blue chip star character witness by the score, most of whom don't even know them., let's start at the top.
The Establishment
Prince Charles sent message of support, the prime minister and home secretary
Tony Bliar and Gordon Brown sent massive home office support network,
Clarence Mitchell, the civil servant, said the couple were "the innocent victims of a heinous crime", adding the suggestion they had harmed their daughter was "as ludicrous as it is nonsensical".
MI5
Sent in to protect national interests whilst getting the McCann's out the country and through customs.
[ guess they believed them too]
The police
DCI Andy Redwood of the multi-million pound Grange
“Neither her parents or any of the members of the group that were with her are either persons of interest or suspects”
[ strange the TOP DETECTIVES in the country, police that are famous for not believing suspects, with the good reason that believe nothing a suspect say, as they alway lie if guilty ]
MSM
All newspapers back the McCann's on front pages and attack the Portuguese view, each paper has an apologist reporter attending to any dissenters lead by the sun in the press, and Lorraine Kelly on the TV channels,
Rich famous people
McCanns' wealthy backers, who include double glazing tycoon Brian Kennedy and Virgin boss Sir Richard Branson.J K Rowling has supported the McCanns in their desperate search for their daughter.
I finish part two here with the suggestion I think I'm still in front as the backers, just make it seem, why do they need all this?
Now reading this you will be asking questions
How can I prove the children were all together?
How does Mrs Fenn know it was Maddie crying?
If all the children were together how could this happen surely the babysitter would alert her parents to the long term crying?
What happened to Maddie that needed the pact [pack]of lies?
What day did the disaster happen?
I CAN AND WILL ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS IN PART 3
The pic below massive MSM support & allies flys in the face of public opinion.
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Re: What happened to Maddie? Part One: Medication

Post by dartinghero on 10.05.17 14:01

Call me picky but the use of "Calpol" for Calpol NIGHT as if it is interchangeable and exactly the same is misleading, sloppy and confusing including in the above initial post. Despite having children the same ages as MM and the twins, I had no idea Calpol Night existed so was mystified by the constant reference to Calpol being a sedative until a poster on another thread mentioned that references to Calpol generally meant Calpol Night . Calpol Night has been discontinued since at least 2009 in the UK and does not appear on the Calpol UK website so I have no idea where it has "recently been put on the market".
As for the culture of using Calpol to sedate our children in Great Britain mentioned above, perhaps it's just me but I don't know of any friends or family who did this although pretty much everyone I know used Calpol (the non sedative) for temperatures, post vaccines etc. I wonder if the lack of definition between the products accounts for the idea that we are all sedating our kids here in the UK?
Having got that out of the way, I think sedation is plausible and wonder if prolonged use (even of an over the counter) would leave its mark on a body.
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Re: What happened to Maddie? Part One: Medication

Post by Phoebe on 10.05.17 19:20

The idea that the cover-up came into play because Madeleine died on the night of the 3rd May while her parents were out makes no sense to me. The only witnesses as to who was at dinner that night are the Tapas 9 and the non-too-sure waiters. It would have been simple to claim that Kate or Gerry was feeling unwell, didn't have dinner, stayed behind for an early night, dozed off and awakened to find Madeleine had fallen or died of a drug reaction. The use of Calpol Night could credibly be explained by saying the child had a headache from over-tiredness and needed a restorative sleep. If she had died as a result of a fall it would not be of consequence that she had been given medicine, provided a parent claimed to be in the apartment that night. If he/she had slept through such an event that would be regarded as tragic bad luck. There has to be more to the reason for a cover-up than the child having Calpol Night in her system. Even though it is recommended for over 6s who would quibble with two doctors decision to give it? There has to be more to it to justify such an extreme attempt to disguise the truth.
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Re: What happened to Maddie? Part One: Medication

Post by dartinghero on 10.05.17 22:00

@Phoebe wrote:The idea that the cover-up came into play because Madeleine died on the night of the 3rd May while her parents were out makes no sense to me. The only witnesses as to who was at dinner that night are the Tapas 9 and the non-too-sure waiters. It would have been simple to claim that Kate or Gerry was feeling unwell, didn't have dinner, stayed behind for an early night, dozed off and awakened to find Madeleine had fallen or died of a drug reaction. The use of Calpol Night could credibly be explained by saying the child had a headache from over-tiredness and needed a restorative sleep. If she had died as a result of a fall it would not be of consequence that she had been given medicine, provided a parent claimed to be in the apartment that night. If he/she had slept through such an event that would be regarded as tragic bad luck. There has to be more to the reason for a cover-up than the child having Calpol Night in her system. Even though it is recommended for over 6s who would quibble with two doctors decision to give it? There has to be more to it to justify such an extreme attempt to disguise the truth.
It isn't my area of expertise, but can long term use of paracetamol cause liver/kidney damage?
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Re: What happened to Maddie? Part One: Medication

Post by Phoebe on 10.05.17 22:26

@ dartinghero. The dangers of paracetamol are actually often underestimated. It is quite easy to overdose. For example, taking more than eight 500mg tablets over a 24 hour period (for an adult) can cause overdose which usually involves liver damage. As doctors, I would have expected the parents to be vigilant about dosage and long term use and fully aware of the consequences and any contraindications.
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Re: What happened to Maddie? Part One: Medication

Post by MRNOODLES on 10.05.17 22:27

The problem with all of the above. The 'incident' took place on the night they claimed it did. As it doesn't fit with the 'incident' took place earlier in the week.
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Re: What happened to Maddie? Part One: Medication

Post by Phoebe on 10.05.17 22:30

@MRNOODLES wrote:The problem with all of the above. The 'incident' took place on the night they claimed it did. As it doesn't fit with the 'incident' took place earlier in the week.
Agreed. I don't believe that Madeleine was still alive on the night of May 3rd.
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Re: What happened to Maddie? Part One: Medication

Post by dartinghero on 10.05.17 22:36

@Phoebe wrote:
@MRNOODLES wrote:The problem with all of the above. The 'incident' took place on the night they claimed it did. As it doesn't fit with the 'incident' took place earlier in the week.
Agreed. I don't believe that Madeleine was still alive on the night of May 3rd.
I agree also. There is also key mention in the first post about the evidence of Mrs Fenn which has a lot of doubt cast on it in other places on here.
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Re: What happened to Maddie? Part One: Medication

Post by sandancer on 10.05.17 22:50

A fall , an unexpected allergic reaction could all be explained and accepted  yes an autopsy would be necessary . Public reaction would be sympathetic , as long as neglect did not raise its head.

The fact that neglect was brought to the fore leading to the alleged " abduction "imo brings the question , Why was an autopsy not an option ? What would it reveal that they were afraid of ? Long term use of some type of drugs , abuse at whatever level , something else ?

Some of the comments made by other Tapas members, enough doctors to resusitate , if she had a bang on the head , if she hurt herself in the apartment why would that be our fault . All leaking marbles , whatever the truth it Had to be hidden the last 10 years have shown that along with the desperate need to be seen as the victims .

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Re: What happened to Maddie? Part One: Medication

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 11.05.17 7:30

Mikki Wells shared Alan Vinnicombe's post.
23 hrs


Part 3, with thanks to Alan Vinnicombe for another truly excellent post.





Alan Vinnicombe‎ to Madeleine McCann abduction or scam ?
May 9 at 11:18am
What happened to Maddie?…

PART 3 Babysitting or musical chairs?
I'm going straight to the point, I have an opinion based on facts and words from people who may or may not have been lying, some of this is distressing a little girl is gone, but as Gerry said people can have theories but that's all it is, well this is mine.
I'm sure some of you will agree, with some of it, all of it, or none it! life's about choices, I hope I've shown you the story in a manner you can follow, as there's so much confusion mixed with misinformation out there,
All I can do is a promise I've double treble checked the information I've used and put it in a readable order start to finish.
Here are the bullet points followed by the proof to the best of my ability it might shock you, maybe I'm wrong, but I've no doubt it if I can work this much out, why can't the super team of elite UK detectives who tells us
''Maddie was too young to leave and start a new life on her own'', in his tiny mind he's saying, of course, she was abducted you stupid public, treating us with the same disdain, as Gerry's, ''Ask the dogs''
You know what both those comments sound like they are from Clearances spinning pen, right down to the smirk but it's so 80s, we aren't falling for it anymore.
My conclusions are IMO
The kids were all in the same room each night.
The tapas crew took turns to babysit.
Maddie was not with the rest, BUT was sedated in 5a.
This is why she was able to cry so long she was alone.
This is why her crying didn't wake the twins.
Maddie died there early in the holiday.
MADDIE DIED BEFORE THE THIRD
McCanns’behaviour changed after Sunday almost reclusive.
Their breakfast every day after Sunday in their own apartment and not with their friends in the restaurant confirmed in her book.
[ staff references to spotting them are either compromised or vague!]
Similarly, taking lunch in their own apartment every day after Sunday and not with their friends on the Payne's balcony.
Total lack of photos when we know they used to take many pics everywhere else.
Not being seen out together with the twins from Monday onwards
The McCanns making lone trips using different doors in their apartment, why would you do that?
So many people turning up on the 4th there seems to be some pre-planing
Lunch said Matthew Oldfield, ''We would be eating in a group'', this included the children, Payne’s apartment commonly used, due to its larger size.
I BELIEVE THE PAYNES are the organisers starting with the biggest apartment, everyone there for lunch, THIS WAS THE CENTRE FOR BABYSITTING,
[ more on this in part 4, for now, suffice to say this is crucial ]
HAVE YOU EVER THOUGHT WHY ONLY THE PAYNES HAD A BABY ALARM
Now you know any probs the whole group were listening to all the children!
Maddie was seen as disruptive and needed to be kept apart, David Payne was the main player in the mystery!
Theory by Paulo Rebelo, 7 children were all together and Madeleine, who had a sleep problem sedated and left alone in the apartment
5a...they were unconcerned because once asleep she did not wake, as McCann confirms in a clip ' There was one evening when Madeleine came to ?' sounds like someone coming through or 'to' after sedation.
If that's not enough our old friend drops them in it?
Interesting comment from Mitchell when hearing this ' accidentally on purpose leaked 'news.
The McCanns spokesman Clarence Mitchell scoffed at the cops allegations, saying:
''If you put seven children together you are going to have a far harder time getting them to sleep than three.''?
Notice something? Mitchell also does not ask about the eighth child he is so busy concentrating on explaining away the fact that the children
'were neglected' he falls head first into the trap he knows Maddie is alone.
[ OH DEAR THERE ARE 8 CHILDREN]
This IS WHY MADDIE COULD HAVE BEEN CRYING ALONE
Or there were only 7 left?
Was there a more sinister reason for Maddie to be alone? why was she separated from the rest, why are her medical records locked away, why was it so crucial she was never to be found, I have no proof only doubts, niggling away to shocking to contemplate, all I will say is she was a prime age! I'm not going into that dark corner where children cower in fear.
How can I prove the children were all together, not easy when we have been told they were all left alone night after night, try this it's complicated
Musical chairs
Matthew Oldfield said April 28th 'We dined at the Millennium because the tapas was closed.'
All the other days they ate at the Tapas. From Sunday, April 29th to Thursday, May 3rd. 5 days, 5 dinners, at Tapas.
Jane Tanner also confirms the booking was permanent for 20h30...until the end of the stay.
Each evening it seems someone from the group had a bout of sickness. Fiona in her statement said someone, every night was sick. ( If Paulo Rebelo was right in his assumption and seven children were together, the person who 'claimed sick' would have stayed with the children. There, of course, being no sickness at all, it was taken in turn to sit with the children...leading to the conclusion there was no neglect. [One was a babysitter)
Gerry McCann said that Sunday lunch was spent in the apartment of Payne except for Matt, who it appears was the first to be 'sick'. Matt also did not attend Sunday dinner.
Matt would have been the babysitter for Sunday night. April 29th
Monday, someone was away from the table, April 30th
Rachael has said she was not at dinner on Tuesday. [so she's tue May 1st]
Rachael Oldfield was feeling unwell and stayed in her apartment all night. (Or babysitting) Wednesday, May 2nd,
Thur 3rd of may they all turned up to play musical chairs
Dianne Webster said there was no need for the Paynes to check on their children as they had a baby monitor
Dr.McCann thinks on Wednesday David Payne checked on the McCanns children but he is not sure.It is odd that this generosity was only extended to the McCann children as we have already been told the Paynes did not need to check their own.
Monday and Tuesday evening seemed to have caused some confusion. Dr McCann does not remember which of these days Madeleine had slept for some time in his room with Kate, who had told him one or both of the twins were crying.
Russel and Tanner also suffered from a bout of amnesia about these dates. Russell said in his statement “I remember the night well as it is the only night we were together”. But then Russel does admit defeat because he and Jane are unsure if this was Monday or Tuesday evening they were all together.
(This goes well with the theory of Paulo Rebelo, the group cannot say they were all together at the table at the same time because this never happened and they could not guarantee an observant waiter would make a statement to this effect., always someone was missing and that someone was the chosen babysitter for the evening)
Fact the contradictions between their statements EVEN GRANGE could see that they were all lying.
Clear evidence that the McCanns’ pattern of behaviour changed after Sunday in the following ways:
On at least one occasion, Rebelo suggested that he had ‘firm evidence’ that the McCanns and their friends had not been leaving their children and checking on them regularly each night as claimed, but that, instead their children were all being cared for in one of the friends’ apartments each night.
Perhaps even more significantly, he said that there were seven children being cared for that way each night. The McCanns and their friends had eight children with them on that holiday.
Why did he say seven children, and not eight?
Support for this claim was found when it became clear that every night from Sunday to Thursday, one or other adult had not been at the Tapas restaurant for dinner each night, either because one of the adults or one of the children was stated to be ill.
Adding weight to the theory by Paulo Rebelo, 7 children were all together and Madeleine, who had a sleep problem sedated and left alone in apartment
Madeleine screaming for that length of time would have disturbed the twins who in turn would have also started screaming, this did not happen because the twins were not there...they were with the rest of the children cared for by one of the tapas who cried off 'sick' each evening.
[Your head spinning dizzily with subterfuge, what a spaghetti junction of tangled lies]
Well there nothing to say they were asleep just babysat, I always thought that was the point of a babysitter, I don't need to explain that to you mums the chances of getting 7 asleep by 8 pm verge of impossible though this would solve everything, no money spent on babysitters and easy to call anyone back if the was a problem child, no real need to drug all the little ones is there ?
Alert to Grange
[ Just my short post here is reason enough to grab the Team tapas and cross-examine them spend some of the money investigating the above, it's not hard to see they are holding info back and openly lying interviews will bear fruit]
Slight problem with that
As the UK policeman on panorama said we are not investigating the family and friends because it's obvious they are not involved, the interviewer fires 'WHY? ,,,,,,'er umm well it all stacks up, they were where they were when the girl went missing'' oh yes so Maddie was there when they said she was reported missing, no need to investigate just move on, such a stitch up you have no respect for your public?
Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley, insisted that the investigation has achieved “an awful lot”.
The officer added that however, ''Madeleine left the flat,'' she was abducted. “She wasn’t old enough to make a decision to set off and start her own life,”
CAN YOU READ THIS YOU PUPPET abduction! you might as well say by aliens that's more believable, we have lost faith in our police force to see what's right in front of them? and I quote.
From the OFFICIAL POLICE FILES 10th September 2007
"....we conclude that:
The minor Madeleine McCann DIED in the apartment 5A of the Ocean Club resort, on the night of May 3rd of 2007
It was performed a SIMULATION of kidnapping;
Kate McCann and Gerald McCann are INVOLVED in the occultation of the cadaver of their child Madeleine McCann;..."
I on your behalf despair at our police force! starting to be embarrassed to be British and can only apologise to our Portuguese members,
Desculpa meus amigos.
[source [Pamalam.]SteelMagnolia] jill havern
[Part 4, Maddie sadly dies in 5a only the people with her know how]
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Re: What happened to Maddie? Part One: Medication

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 11.05.17 7:32

Debbie Jane Kirsten shared Alan Vinnicombe's post.
12 hrs


Shared on behalf of and courtesy of Alan Vinnicombe




Alan Vinnicombe‎ to Madeleine McCann abduction or scam ?
13 hrs
What happened to Maddie?…
PART 4, Shifting sands of time.
Maddie was abducted or died on the 3rd of may,
Is its the true starting point of the whole investigation, well even this simple statement will be pulled apart, no some will say she died days before if so which day?
This post we investigate and try to decide when and where I think the where is quite easy to prove more of that later, when is the starting point we need to find the answer, mirroring a lot of this case, it's like sand slipping through you fingers, build a sandcastle on the Portuguese beach, its looks solid but in a short while it will dry out and turn to dust, or be washed away like poor Maddie young life,
What are we left with nothing back to square one 10 long years running, the tide washes away the truth politics is the tide!
Lets put the grains of truth back together I think this she died before the 3rd because
Maddie died the crying night 30th or 1st [see below]
How many people have claimed seen Madeleine after that not many?
Total lack of holiday photos from any of the tapas crew.
The massive number of UK support flew in on the 4th.
Home and foreign office on the spot in hours.
Apartment cleaned and washed no time on the 3rd.
My only evidence I myself have in the whole case is meeting a friend of Mrs Fenn who told me that the press frightened her and people following her all the time made her panic, and just switch off from saying any more than the statement,, and told her there was crying more nights, that's all I know , but from that I believe Mrs Fenn's statement I know it was given too long after the event, I'm sure she felt the same fear the Smiths felt overwhelmed and shut up and down!
I can't think why the police didn't get a statement straight away!
The video clip we have of her, the denial is made in fear, above all, she is simply eager to dismiss her statement TO PLAY DOWN any part she played in assisting with the investigation, how was she to know it would be made public a statement she gave in confidence, displayed in the press shocking.
MRS FENNS STATEMENT
She also refers to the day of the 1st May 2007, when she was at home alone, at approximately 22.30 she heard a child cry, and that due the tone of the crying seemed to be a young child and not a baby of two years of age or younger.
Apart from the crying that continued for approximately one hour and fifteen minutes, and which got louder and more expressive, the child shouted?Daddy, Daddy?, the witness had no doubt that the noise came from the floor below. At about 23.45, an hour and fifteen minutes after the crying began, she heard the parents arrive, she did not see them, but she heard the patio doors open, she was quite worried as the crying had gone on for more than an hour and had gradually got worse.
As soon as the parents entered the child stopped crying.
What's wrong with this, well kids don't stop crying instantly there's a calming down period, which means IMO something other stopped her crying.
Gerry to be 'clever' and twist it into an early visit by the perp and prove M was alive on Thursday morning. Yes, there was crying, old lady mistaken about the day and hey, the troublesome woman is now a witness for the defence.
Hence Kate and Gerry's decision to volunteer the information regarding the crying incident was probably made as an attempt to appear more "open" since there was a real possibility that someone who heard the crying incident would come forward.
They later turned the situation to their advantage by concocting the ever-evolving "Why didn't you come when we cried?" tale, with the purpose of giving the impression that Madeleine was still alive at that point of course.
[ source Jill Havern forum]
Photographs JUST two released for the id of the holiday when there should have been dozens of photos just from the holiday. the pool one and tennis one.
Did Maddie die?
Well, I'm ruling out abducted as the dogs tell us she died in 5a, THE CHANCE OF HER BEING TAKEN ALIVE I see as not possible as I can't see beyond the dogs' findings.
I hope you see that the conclusion Maddie died is not in doubt Gonçalo Amaral tells us that was the view of both the PJ AND UK, how Grange turned that around il never know! I'm going to print this interview to answer most of your questions on the case.
Gonçalo Amaral view
IOL Portugal Diário spoke with the former PJ inspector, Gonçalo Amaral
In your book, you write that you believe that Maddie died in the apartment, on the 3rd of May. When did you form the conviction that the child was dead?
GA It was with the dogs' work. That was when we were most convinced.
Then one realises that people are lying. How can anyone who has the obligation to cooperate with the police, not do so?! All the person wants is to receive information and all that the person says is a lie?!
Then it was necessary to understand why they lied. Were they afraid of the police, Is it a reaction? the exposure and abandonment of the children?
But when we asked, they said no, and insisted that the little girl had been abducted.
This immediately caused strangeness and suspicion.
Q, in your book, you also mention political and diplomatic pressures. Was the PJ ever contacted by the British government?
GA .There was an intervention from the British government, even though it was somewhat clumsy. Mainly from the present Prime Minister, Gordon Brown. He spoke with Kate and with the English authorities that were involved in the investigation. And he also spoke with José Sócrates [Portuguese Prime Minister].
Q, But where did the alleged power of the couple, which you have been suggesting, come from?
GA, On the first night, a dossier about the family was requested, which the English authorities never sent. It was said that they were connected to commissions that emitted opinion reports on nuclear issues, but none of that was ever confirmed officially. Connections to political parties were also mentioned.
Q, Did the British police send information about the McCanns and their friends?
G,A No. They never sent the information that we requested. In fact, they did send only once, financial information. They stated that the couple had a mortgage and that there was no knowledge of any credit or debit cards. How didn't they have any? The registration of the rental car mentions the card numbers. Concerning the other members of the group, the information was also only that.
Who supports your theory that Gerry and Kate McCann are the guilty parties in Madeleine’s disappearance?
Real truth alert important bit***********************************************************
GA,, In September 2007, the investigation, Portuguese and British police, reached the conclusion that Maddie had died and that the parents were responsible and were involved in the crimes of hiding a body and simulating a kidnapping and potentially the crime of abandonment.
[ Both forces are you reading this Grange your own colleagues, agreed! where does that leave your current stance ?]
*******************************************************************************************
GA, You have said that the child died when she fell from a sofa – why are you so sure of this?
GA , First of all, there is strong evidence that Maddie is dead. When I left the case, the investigation was pointing at the sofa, due to the cadaver odour and blood tracked on the floor behind this piece of furniture.
Q, Which are the clues that indicate that the McCanns simulated a kidnapping?
GA, The thesis of the kidnapping was based upon two issues. The first, the testimony of Kate's friend Jane Tanner, who said she saw a man carrying a child, while none of the other witnesses mentioned this fact.
The second issue…
That Maddie's mother is the only person who says that the window was open. When she calls to the other members of the group, she goes out leaving her twins, exposing them once again, to danger. Further proof is Kate's fingerprints that describe the movement when she opened the windows – we know that the window was cleaned the previous day -. However, Kate says she never opened the window. And most importantly, there were no signs of breaking in.
Q,, You have been under pressure from the McCann family lawyers.
GAI felt strong pressure from the British press. I think that nobody has ever seen such a tendentious campaign such as this one, with the sole purpose of denigrating the Portuguese police and myself.
Q – What else sustains the theory?
G.A. – There is evidence from indicia, which is possible in this country, as long as the prosecutor possesses the conviction and the elements that indicate that, in court, there will be a condemnation. The Public Ministry has to value this evidence that was collected.
Q,, And what are those indicia that you understand as sufficient?
G.A. – The untypical behaviour of the parents: The fact that the lady says that she had three children sleeping in one room, that she arrives and one is missing, the window is open, she mentions it's a cold night, the shutter is up… and she goes away, leaving two children asleep, with a possible abductor around. I know that [the reports from the PJ and from the Public Ministry] didn't give any relevance to the contradictions and didn't expose the falsehoods and the false testimonies that exist there from all the persons who intervened. That, deep down, is the evidence that indicates that everyone is lying and those lies cannot be understood.
The death of the child in the apartment. The Public Ministry even mentions homicide.
The abduction theory has been dismissed due to everything that has been made public.
Q,But why "accidental"?
G.A. - I don't say it's accidental. Up to that moment, we could only reach an accidental death, because we had not worked on the rest yet. We had yet to understand what had happened there. Cadaver odour and blood from the child appear next to the sofa. Death has presumably taken place there. There are no doubts that it is a death and that it took place on that spot. We are not going to say that the mother did this or that, that would really be speculating, the only hypothesis is the accidental death. In the continuation of the investigations is where we could go further or not.
Q,Are Madeleine McCanns' parents responsible for their daughter's death?
G.A. – No. There is a neglect [of the children]. There are no doubts that those children were not safe because if they were, one of them wouldn't have disappeared. Now, saying that "the responsibility of the death belongs to…" We had to understand, to collect data about what happened from there on.
The reconstruction is essential. I did not understand, but I accepted the decision from a hierarchical team that I was part of, why the reconstruction was not done right away.
A thing like this is only done with arguidos. The ideal is to have everyone, but even only with the couple, that was arguidos at that point in time, the reconstruction could have been carried out.
[A planned reconstruction of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann involving her parents and their friends has been scrapped over suspicions about the motives of Portuguese police.
Kate and Gerry McCann and the so-called Tapas Seven -The plan was to re-enact their movements leading up to the discovery that the three-year-old was missing.
McCanns, both doctors from Rothley, Leicestershire, believe it would have done 'absolutely nothing' to help find their daughter A friend of the couple said: 'It was a case of all nine of them take part or it doesn't happen at all from the police's point of view, so the whole thing is off.@MailOnline
*****************************************************************************************
THE FAMILY FRIEND YET AGAIN WAS WRONG Gonçalo Amaral WOULD HAVE DONE IT WITH JUST THE McCANNS, they were right about the motives it wasn't to find Maddie they know she's dead! it was the final evidence needed for a trial, unfortunately, their lawyers knew it!
******************************************************************************************
Q, You state that you have not told everything that you know.
G.A. – And I haven't.
Focus – Why?
G.A. – Because I am a jurist, too. Let's see how the situation evolves.
Q - What is your opinion?
GA To me, Gerry hid Madeleine's body on the beach. And after a few days, he moved her with his car. We work following this lead. Trying to find out the date of the switch, some details, but we were on the way. The Irish [witness] was about to arrive in Portugal, but everything was delayed too much, he even received external pressures. In the end, he didn't testify for the Police.
Q - What if they do not want to lose hope? It all seems very morbid.
GA They are human. If the McCanns admit that their daughter is dead, they can no longer collect money from the Maddie fund, and that's a lot of money, over one million pounds. That's why they say that the girl was abducted. It is. If they admit that she is dead they will lose their style of life.
Q - You said that the girl was frozen.
GA For there to be vestiges in the boot of the car rented 23 days later, they must have preserved the corpse in some way. I believe that when they put it in the boot, with the heat of those days in the Algarve, a similar situation happened with that of shopping bags, which melt, and then the water is transferred to the car.
Q .Is it the British Empire against Portugal?
GA, Yes, it seems so.there were too many pressures.the McCanns have many contacts and nobody was interested in knowing the truth.
So there we have it the McCann's were that close to arrest, now you see why they got Michael Caplan QC, one of the few solicitors in the country to take silk, specialises in international criminal law.
He is perhaps best known for representing General Pinochet, the former Chilean dictator, in his attempt to avoid extradition from Britain to Spain on torture charge
AND
Carlos Pinto de Abreu
Abreu is one of Portugal's best-known lawyers with a reputation for taking on controversial cases.
He also applied to the district attorney for a change in the couple's formal status from "witnesses" to "assistant" in the investigation, thus allowing them to know more about it.
So the UK finest and Portugal's best I wonder how much that cost the find Madie fund,
Well we leave it there, I can't explain anymore although I have a lot more, there's no point is there, 100% stays at 100% IMO she gone.
Maddie died in 5a the tapas crew covered it up, refused to cooperate lied and hightailed to back to the UK just in time,
To tell us all they are innocent and pay money to find Maddie.
I HOPE YOU DIDN'T.
[part 5 the silent witness is the apartment]
The picture below in memory of a lost soul
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Re: What happened to Maddie? Part One: Medication

Post by sar on 11.05.17 14:06

thanks for posting this is dynamite!

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Re: What happened to Maddie? Part One: Medication

Post by MTSTAR on 11.05.17 15:45

@sar wrote:thanks for posting this is dynamite!
It certainly is.  They were so close to being arrested!
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Re: What happened to Maddie? Part One: Medication

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 11.05.17 18:19

Shared on behalf of and courtesy of Alan Vinnicombe






Alan Vinnicombe‎ to Madeleine McCann abduction or scam ?
1 hr
What happened to Maddie?…

PART 5 Silent Witness


If you followed this mini-series and the ones before, we have looked at so many witnesses, were they reliable, did they have a agenda, were they compromised, in order the clarify ''what happened to Maddie'' we need to find her and the sad conclusion this theory has come down to is,
A,The parent's theory is correct [discounted due to no evedence]
or
B, Maddie died in 5A reasons unknown
That's what it boils down to, the McCann's instant theory of abduction by paedophiles, backed up with top level blind support, or the police investigation which is route I've taken, we can argue over which day and minor things all day, and many of you have said I'm wrong about this person or that fact, strangely no one one has said, she was abducted that is after 10 years no longer on the table.
So, Maddie, I'm afraid is dead not in my opinion, but the findings or the combined police forces investigation, no amount of emotional blackmail .like the Philpot case the parents have suffered enough, I think not, no the poor children have suffered enough in the fire,
Their parents didn't suffer at all it was revealed, in fact, they laughed about it, the police taped their phone and caught them at no time did the MSM say, back off ''they suffered enough'.
The truth was the truth no amount of tears on camera stopped the investigation, When in the world did the words ''We are innocence'' from the parents of a dead child, become stronger than the evidence gathered by experts,
HOW DID THE LAST PEOPLE TO SEE MADDIE GET INSTANTLY BELIEVED?
Ask their supporters that you, ll get, ''er umm well they said so''!
As Mandy Rice Davis once stated when confronted with a dodgy testimony against her said with irony ''They would say that wouldn't they?
Unsurprisingly I'm going for A, in order, the solve the case the only thing left is how did she die? THERE IS ONE VITAL WITNESS MISSING and remains missing that is!
Madeleine McCann, yes its a fact that she is a silent witness as she is dead, none the less if the body was found at the time, so much could have been discovered, let me explain why a corpse is so important,
Determining the cause of death is the most important task a pathologist can perform during the course of an autopsy. In terms of legality, it is a necessity for law enforcement to be able to prove beyond any doubt that the deceased has died of means other than natural causes.
Indeed such are the statistics of murder in parts of the world that it is a basic requirement for any individual who has died unexpectedly to have an autopsy performed on them in order to prove definitely the cause of death and rule out the chance of foul play.
Factors to Consider
Determining the cause of death is done by taking a number of factors into consideration.
Firstly was the deceased found at the location, Where they in a state of undress or have visible injuries not normally present in a natural death? If injuries were present were they the result of a knife or gun attack?
Deciding on a Cause
The exact nature of death is such that proving how it happened can sometimes be a difficult task. There might not necessarily be visible signs of how the death occurred and likewise, there might not be any history of ill health to fall back on as a means of diagnosis.
Medical records, psychiatric reports and statements from the next of kin are all required when death occurs without any warning. This is so that a detailed picture of the individual's life can be built up along the way. This is useful to make a report
But the main way in which the cause of death can be determined is by carrying out an autopsy; an autopsy offers definite proof as to the cause of death and also can shed light on how the death occurred. an autopsy can prove that the perpetrator was either left handed or right, taller or smaller, heavier or lighter, all characteristics which are useful in building up a physical profile of the attacker.
In the same way, an autopsy can prove if the deceased tried to defend themselves or was simply overcome by their attacker; again useful information when building up a picture of a crime.
An autopsy can also go some way to helping estimate the time of death, something that can be made tricky if the deceased has been found outdoors or has been found after a long period of being missing.
Again determining the cause of death and estimating the time of death are hugely beneficial in any criminal investigation and offer up valuable clues as to the last moments or hours of an individual's life before they died.
All of these questions have to be answered and answered satisfactorily in the eyes of a pathologist. In some deaths an inquest is necessary to decide on how an individual died - be it death by misadventure, accidental death or natural causes and a pathologist will be called upon to give expert testimony that will prove beyond any doubt what the cause of death actually was.
The Pathologist and The Crime Scene
While the crime scene is the realm of the police the pathologist has the ultimate say in what happens with the body.The body - even though the crime scene has its own secrets to reveal - is the most important piece of evidence in any crime and the pathologist is the individual responsible for unlocking the corpse's secrets.
We don't have the body that would have proved more than you could imagine.
so we are left with is the room as the only clues so we still have,
DNA in 5A
Still, DNA will solve that Maddie died in 5a somehow it didn't!
This process is used as one means of identification when an attacker or assailant has left some kind of bodily fluid or blood at the scene of a crime and when no visual identification is possible.
DNA - or genetic - fingerprinting relies heavily on the principle that no two individuals share the same genetic code, statistically, those elements of DNA that are examined and used to obtain a match will be unique.
The premise that most attackers or killers will leave some measure of bodily fluid at a crime scene, saliva, blood, semen or other such fluid, quickly accepted as common place and it became a staple of many criminal investigations.
DNA fingerprinting works on the basis that each individual's DNA structure is unique and therefore cannot be forged, faked or altered in any way.
Statistically there is a one in sixty-four billion chance that any two unrelated individuals would have comparable DNA:The chances of any of these results leading to the misidentification of a suspect is one in several billion and over the years since their inception these tests have also not only proved the guilt of many suspects but have also proven the innocence of many people wrongly convicted.
The initial DNA samples taken from the body fluids discovered in the McCanns’ apartment and in their car showed a 99.99% certainty that they belonged to Madeleine McCann. However, a subsequent review of the samples determined that they had been ‘contaminated’ and flawed by government Forensic Science Service staff. and couldn't be used as evidence.
So the DNA is written off still we have the dogs
The 17 alerts by two cadaver dogs, used by dog top handler Martin Grime, to the odour of a corpse and to blood or body fluids, in locations associated with the McCanns or on their clothes, is prima facie evidence that Madeleine died (or was killed) in the McCanns’ holiday apartment. No-one else was reported to have ever died in that apartment.
The initial DNA samples taken from the body fluids discovered in the McCanns’ apartment and in their car showed a 99.99% certainty that they belonged to Madeleine McCann.
Surely this means she died in 5a, amazing no seemly the parents have discounted this as not evidence and the MSM say ok it's not true!
SO THERE IS NO BODY
DNA DISCOUNTED
DOGS CADAVER DISCOUNTED
NO WITNESSES
NO CONFESSION
If I didn't see it I wouldn't believe it possible
So there you have it the greatest distortion of evidence ever produced in plain sight, of course in the dark world of MI5 and closed doors it happens all the time, but the sheer cheek of doing it though the media in our faces, is frankly mind-boggling, are we sheep in their eyes?
It seems all the work done by both police force AMOUNTED to nothing!
SURELY THE PARENTS WOULD BE WORRIED ABOUT THE, DNA and death smell, might be that their daughter was murdered? not a bit of it,
Gerry McCann lashed out at Portuguese police, In a heated exchange with reporters, Gerry McCann insisted, "There is absolutely no evidence that Madeleine is dead and there is absolutely no evidence that we were involved in her disappearance,
The couple, who are Catholics, said they still believe their daughter is alive because there is no evidence that she is dead.
[the independent.]
[ well they would say that the UK, eagle-eyed TV reporters will catch them out ]
SURELY THE REPORTERS WOULD QUESTION THEM?
Lorraine Kelly
As if losing Madeleine wasn’t enough, Kate and Gerry have been pilloried, trolled, abused and were even suspected of murdering their own child.
The vitriol has been relentless and shameful.
Don’t those spiteful haters realise that this couple are grieving and desperate?
They’ve had to keep ­Madeleine’s name in the public eye to ensure that she is not forgotten and they have hated every minute of it.
Does anyone honestly think they want to be doing endless interviews and appeal launches?
[umm yes they seem to 10 years or so I think missing people choir are on TV soon, never mind the researchers on the newspapers know what's going on]
OK THEN EVEN HANDED REPORTING FROM THE PRESS,
To date, however, not one shred of proof of what happened to Madeleine has been unearthed. [ the Telegraph]
Another agonising ­anniversary for the McCann family. Another opportunity for slug-like Portuguese ex-cop Goncalo Amaral to crawl out of his hole and slither around in their pain.[The Mirror]
[ummm they are told what to write the police will sort it]
NEVER MIND WE HAVE OUR WONDERFUL POLICE FORCE TO ENSURE FAIR PLAY
Senior detectives in Portugal and the UK have said repeatedly the McCanns are no longer suspects in the case
Their Portuguese lawyer has described the idea that the couple were guilty of any wrongdoing as “unfounded and absurd”.
Scotland Yard chief Mark Rowley confirmed Madeleine’s parents were no longer seen as possible suspects.
He said: “The parents’ involvement was dealt with at the time by the original investigation by the Portuguese.
“We’re happy that’s completely dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to re-open that or start rumours that that’s a line of investigation.”
[ YEP DEALT WITH GOOD AND PROPER, Mr Rowley, Oh you missed this nevermind here it is for you?
GA,, In September 2007, the investigation, Portuguese and British police, reached the conclusion that Maddie had died and that the parents were responsible and were involved in the crimes of hiding a body and simulating a kidnapping and potentially the crime of abandonment.]
[policeman down still we the Government then can't mess with them]
WELL THAT LEAVES OUR GOVERNMENT
HOME OFFICE SPOKESMAN Clarence Mitchell ''Kate and Gerry McCann are entirely innocent and have nothing to hide''
Sorry the UK it's only us the internet that can report the truth and see what others can't or are they blindfolded and in chains!
So I can prove to you Maddie's dead I just can't say it, the MSM say it didn't happen, McCann's are so correct no one else can have been right, you disbeliever shame on you, you're a troll, Grange discount the parents can't be them.
I shout hell why not, bit like the Mirror headline below! why don't you want the truth, why can't you handle the truth, show me your evidence to contradict my findings?
To that, I hear a deafening silence to me, that tells me your saying MSM case solved, your blindness to the truth means, I don't need to find the body thanks, you are my
Silent Witness!
Hang on the Daily Mirror, isn't that the slug-like x,-cop slithering around winning? and since when did you take over from the sun as the team mouthpiece, Oh you didn't see it, hope he hasn't got a top lawyer to sue you like your friends did! "Déjà Vu"
[part 6,, Suspects analysed]
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Re: What happened to Maddie? Part One: Medication

Post by polyenne on 11.05.17 20:43

Parts 1 to 4 very good. But you're losing me in Part 5
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Re: What happened to Maddie? Part One: Medication

Post by jazega on 12.05.17 0:23

@polyenne wrote:Parts 1 to 4 very good. But you're losing me in Part 5

I think that he is saying,in part,is that even though we have all the forensic evidence of the DNA,the actions of the dogs,etc, the authorities will never bring the McCanns' in for questioning or charge them as there is no body.How vey convenient for them.
It is a total whitewash.
There have been cases in USA where no body has been found and the perpretator/s of the crime have been found guilty in court partly due to the forensics e.g DNA,recovery dogs.
Many years ago I spent a great deal of time reading and investigating the assassination of JFK,the McCann case is a bigger cover up IM0
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Re: What happened to Maddie? Part One: Medication

Post by Philip Anders on 12.05.17 10:26

Neither a body nor DNA nor any witnesses are required in the UK for a successful murder / manslaught conviction.

There are people serving life sentences based purely on circumstantial evidence.

Not sure what the rules are in Portugal.
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Re: What happened to Maddie? Part One: Medication

Post by ChippyM on 12.05.17 12:07

@dartinghero wrote:Call me picky but the use of "Calpol" for Calpol NIGHT as if it is interchangeable and exactly the same is misleading, sloppy and confusing including in the above initial post. Despite having children the same ages as MM and the twins, I had no idea Calpol Night existed so was mystified by the constant reference to Calpol being a sedative until a poster on another thread mentioned that references to Calpol generally meant Calpol Night . Calpol Night has been discontinued since at least 2009 in the UK and does not appear on the Calpol UK website so I have no idea where it has "recently been put on the market".
As for the culture of using Calpol to sedate our children in Great Britain mentioned above, perhaps it's just me but I don't know of any friends or family who did this although pretty much everyone I know used Calpol (the non sedative) for temperatures, post vaccines etc. I wonder if the lack of definition between the products accounts for the idea that we are all sedating our kids here in the UK?
Having got that out of the way, I think sedation is plausible and wonder if prolonged use (even of an over the counter) would leave its mark on a body.

I don't think it's picky. I thought the whole calpol containing a sedative thing had been debunked. As far as I remember, the Calpol Night version wasn't even out when M. disappeared.

  Personally I believe with them being doctors they could get their hands on much 'better' drugs and possibly have the mistaken sense of total competence that comes from working with peoples's lives on a regular basis, a 'god complex',  if you will.

  Another scenario could be recreational drugs that one or more of the children got their hands on. Imagine if they were all alone, one child found their parents 'stash' and handed pills round to the other kids. something like this could explain sleepiness and vomiting / diarrhoea in the others. For me this would also explain the need for a pact of silence through the group.

  Recreational drugs are much more common than some people would think in professionals. In this case it would also be combined with easy access for those involved.

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Re: What happened to Maddie? Part One: Medication

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 12.05.17 21:30

Shared on behalf of and courtesy of Alan Vinnicombe






Alan Vinnicombe‎ to Madeleine McCann abduction or scam ?
59 mins


What happened to Maddie : Part 6
The Crime Scene

So we come to the last part of the current series, in the next one we will look to the suspects.
Yes the crime scene is what 5a was on the night of the 3rd; the problem was, it wasn't treated as such, a child goes missing, could have wondered off anything reported, as such missing.
The police turn up and start a search not looking for suspects until the parents say she was abducted strangely, by paedophiles. How are they so sure, did they see it or hear anything? No.
But not that sure it seems, staff volunteers and police but not them, search the streets in the hope she's wondering around of course, if a kidnapping was spotted a different scenario, road blocks, key witnesses interviewed but you see it wasn't an abduction, not in the eyes of anyone at the time, the police didn't seal the crime scene, due to misinformation.
The Polícia Judiciária case file showed that 5a lay empty for a month after the disappearance, it was then let out to tourists before being sealed off in July for more forensic tests and for the Police investigations, who awaited the possibility of a re-enactment of the night of the 3rd of May to be done on that location.
So we know IMO
1, Maddie died in apartment 5a.
2, Days before the 3rd.
3, The body was removed.
4, There is no sign of an intruder.
5, Blood splatters on the wall.
6, The apartment bleached.
7, Blood mopped up and some found under a tile.
8, Cadaver found.
9, Shutters not jemmied.
10, Doors unlocked.
11, Furniture rearranged.
Let's look at this one by one with the aid of 10 years of information, I'm sure if the police knew what we know now, things would have been done very differently, hindsight is a wonderful thing!
1, Maddie died in 5a
We know this because blood found was a match acceptable in the UK, cadaver found and no one else had died in 5a, strangely the parents refused to believe this. Any parent would be in bits shocked by this revelation, and demand more forensics to find who did this terrible deed. Don't forget they agree she was removed from the apartment, remember it was nearly three months later the fund was in full swing, no live Maddie, no fund! They simply couldn't accept the findings.
[ We look deeper into this in the next series called: The Suspects]
2, We believe she died on the Sunday or Monday days before, no clear sightings and changes in behaviour since the Sunday, all the washing and cleaning, lack of photos, strange never to be seen as 5 days of deceptions, the telling everyone who would listen that they are leaving the kids alone and checking now and then, pre-planing to the extreme!
The PJ says that the information that was collected from the McCanns and their friends was “worked upon” in order to strengthen the abduction theory. But it rapidly perceived that “everyone lies” in the issue of checking the children, further explaining that the family information, which in these cases is “fundamental”, was always “distorted”.
3, The body removed, never to be seen in ten years.
Gonçalo Amaral is quite happy to tell us his view,
Question: According to you, what happened on 3rd May 2007?
Answer: Madeleine McCann died in an accidental manner, upon falling behind the sofa in the apartment. This sofa had been moved when the disappearance was announced. I think that someone found the body, hid it, cleaned everything and moved the sofa against the window.
Q: Who?
A: Madeleine’s parents
Q: But, 22.05 was when Kate said that the girl had disappeared and Gerry was with her...
A: The times are not clear. The only thing that is sure is that the McCanns contacted the National Guard at 22.40. So, before then, Gerry had time to hide the girl’s body on the beach.
[ Well he seem very sure of the theories, more of that in the new series ''Suspects'']
4, No intruder, zero evidence or anyone arrested since 2008.
Scotland Yard said the Force was also looking at 38 “people of interest” and were researching the backgrounds of 530 known sex offenders, including 59 regarded as high interest. A bit pointless really, shall we be kind and call it window dressing to a multi-million pound waste of time.
All the clues to a possible abduction were checked by the PJ. after three months, the abduction theory was put aside.
5, Blood splatters
Spots 4 to 13 are on the walls behind where the sofa is. Spots 14 and 15 are on the rear of the sofa.
Not sure what to make of this haven't got much information, I'm not going to jump into anything on this, was it the same as the blood under the tiles that was hers, unfortunately, the PJ thought they were being clever sending them to a UK lab, so as we here, couldn't dispute the results.
There's no question the 15 alleles in a profile of 19 from the little girl, stating that they match Madeleine McCann, But there are no excuses for saying that it is not from Madeleine McCann because they held the profiles of the father, the mother, the siblings, therefore there are no doubts that at least within that family they only matched Madeleine McCann.
They don't know our ways of covering up the truth in this country, in the end, results fudged like so many others, so much so the case was shelved.
6 &7 Apartment bleached and blood mopped up!
The blood cleaned up with bleach, the cleaning was a DELIBERATE job, leading to the DNA being damaged for forensic identification although the floor was bleached and blood mopped up, some remained under a tile.
The PJ genuinely believed that there was a high probability of a DNA match and that the McCanns had a case to answer.
Maria da Silva,[OCEAN STAFF] who was tasked with cleaning 5A states that the last time she cleaned the apartments was on Wednesday the 2nd.
This window had curtains that were removed and analysed by police, and a small blood sample was detected. Both the curtains and the wall where it was located at, had been washed.
8, SNIFFER DOGS 31st July
Mark Harrison, the National search adviser decides to bring in Martin Grime the British Dog Handler who owns cadaver and blood sniffer dogs.
The only area in which Keela and Eddie gave alerts was apartment 5A. Both dogs alerted behind the sofa in the living room, on and under the veranda and in the bedroom that Madeleine's parents had used and small amounts of blood was also found behind and on the living room sofa.
Cadaver odour in Kate & Gerry McCann's bedroom.
Cadaver odour outside, on the veranda, in a flower bed near the window.
Eddie alerted the McCann's wardrobe.
Eddie alerted behind the sofa.
Keela alerted behind the sofa.
The cadaver dog alerted to an area of the garden immediately below the window of 5A.
As a result of the dogs' sofa indication, the police discovered more blood underneath the tiles below the window.
9, Shutters open or closed.
Kate said the shutter and window were closed when Madeleine was put to bed, but open when she discovered Madeleine was missing. Gerry told the Polícia Judiciária that when he was first alerted to the disappearance, he had lowered the shutter then had gone outside and discovered that it could be raised only from the outside. [130][131] Against this, the police said the shutter could not be raised from the outside without being forced, but there was no sign of forced entry, they also said forcing the shutter open would have caused a lot of noise.
10, Doors unlocked.
Among the inconsistencies was whether the McCanns had entered the apartment by the front or back door when checking on the children. According to the Polícia Judiciária case file, Gerry stated during his first interview on 4 May 2007 that the couple had entered 5A through the locked front door for his 21:05 and her 22:00 checks, and in a second interview on 10 May, that he had entered through the unlocked patio doors at the back. The patio doors could be unlocked only from inside, so the parents had left them unlocked to let themselves in.
11, The bed sheets and the position of the soft toy raised suspicions. The bed looked like nobody slept there, soft toy in position symmetrically to the pillow and the pink blanket is almost folded.
According to the Polícia Judiciária’s investigation, which is now public, the coincidence between the marking of cadaver odour and blood which was given by the sniffer dogs behind the sofa “indubitably” proves that the sofa was pushed against the wall after the little girl’s death.
So I've taken you through what happened to Maddie, you have all the information to make a valid opinion now. What I haven't said and it's a big omission, is how she died, the reason is simple, I don't know but someone does. Are they going to suddenly tell us after 10 years ? probably not, but in these cases the truth will out, usually by happenstance, a small thing will trigger the disclosure, someone's death who's too powerful to take on alive, there's no libel on the dead or even a deathbed confession, but I predict this; any number of millions of pounds worth of wild goose chases by Operation Grange will end this charade!
[End of the series next week ''The Suspects'' are looked at in depth]
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