Re: Portuguese Geography

by j.rob 21.09.14 18:53

AndyB wrote:
Markus 2 wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
No doubt it is bad over there but you have to make your mind up whether the Mccanns are involved in it all

The parents of Madeleine McCann were part of an illuminati mind control ring themselves. They know exactly what happened to her but were powerless to stop it. I was already aware that by allowing their daughter to be kidnapped, the McCann's were unable to avoid obeying the orders of their illuminati controllers. I was also aware that innocent Madeleine was intended to become the sex toy of illuminati insider,
The article seems to be based on the authenticity of an article allegedly published at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] which no longer exists. For me it reads like disinformation designed to substantiate the idea that Madeleine was abducted by paedophiles with sufficient detail for (erroneous) connections to be drawn with Dutroux

Given that the parents themselves originally claimed that Madeleine had been abducted by a paedophile ring. Why would it be an error to make some connections with the Dutroux case? From the reading I have done on that case, that appears to have been connected with a paedophile ring. There appears to have been huge police incompetence (at best) and may well have been other people involved who were not brought to justice.

There are a great many red flag that the disappearance of Madeleine McCann does have something to do with paedophilia, imo. Perhaps whoever was behind her disappearance was hoping that the Portuguese police would be as corrupt and incompetent as the Belgian police had been over the Dutroux scandal. (And it may also be of note that a detective who had helped crack the Casa Pia orphanage paedophile ring had worked on the case before the whole case was rather mysteriously 'shelved' after a high level meeting between the UK and Portugal, I do believe.)

It could very well be that the Dutroux case was the tip of an iceberg and that a great deal remain submerged.

IMO.

by Markus 2 21.09.14 18:58

AndyB wrote:
Markus 2 wrote:
AndyB wrote:
Markus 2 wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
No doubt it is bad over there but you have to make your mind up whether the Mccanns are involved in it all

The parents of Madeleine McCann were part of an illuminati mind control ring themselves. They know exactly what happened to her but were powerless to stop it. I was already aware that by allowing their daughter to be kidnapped, the McCann's were unable to avoid obeying the orders of their illuminati controllers. I was also aware that innocent Madeleine was intended to become the sex toy of illuminati insider,
The article seems to be based on the authenticity of an article allegedly published at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] which no longer exists. For me it reads like disinformation designed to substantiate the idea that Madeleine was abducted by paedophiles with sufficient detail for (erroneous) connections to be drawn with Dutroux

This article is feasible imo. The parents are not let off in this article either, so just as possible as all the other theories. Corruption in high places everywhere ,why should it be any different there.
Feasible, even though the whole thing is based on a source that no longer exists, and may never have existed in the first place? I agree that there is corruption in high places, and massively so in the UK, far beyond what many on here would believe, but I don't think the web page you linked to is an example of anything beyond its author's almost hysterical imagination. Happy to be corrected with anything that approximates evidence.

Do you agree with the articles assertion that Madeleine was abducted by a paedophile gang based in Belgium?

Not necessarily but this article gives people an insight to what we all know about these people with strange ties to one another. Could be as true as any other theory. I would not like to describe this person as hysterical, who are we to judge. Even the parents thought she was taken by a ring as someone just mentioned.

by AndyB 21.09.14 19:03

j.rob wrote:
AndyB wrote:
Markus 2 wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
No doubt it is bad over there but you have to make your mind up whether the Mccanns are involved in it all

The parents of Madeleine McCann were part of an illuminati mind control ring themselves. They know exactly what happened to her but were powerless to stop it. I was already aware that by allowing their daughter to be kidnapped, the McCann's were unable to avoid obeying the orders of their illuminati controllers. I was also aware that innocent Madeleine was intended to become the sex toy of illuminati insider,
The article seems to be based on the authenticity of an article allegedly published at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] which no longer exists. For me it reads like disinformation designed to substantiate the idea that Madeleine was abducted by paedophiles with sufficient detail for (erroneous) connections to be drawn with Dutroux

Given that the parents themselves originally claimed that Madeleine had been abducted by a paedophile ring. Why would it be an error to make some connections with the Dutroux case?

Because it requires a belief in the veracity of the parents claim that Madeleine was abducted by paedophiles. I don't believe that she was abducted, do you? (rhetorical)

j.rob wrote:There are a great many red flag that the disappearance of Madeleine McCann does have something to do with paedophilia, imo. Perhaps whoever was behind her disappearance was hoping that the Portuguese police would be as corrupt and incompetent as the Belgian police had been over the Dutroux scandal. (And it may also be of note that a detective who had helped crack the Casa Pia orphanage paedophile ring had worked on the case before the whole case was rather mysteriously 'shelved' after a high level meeting between the UK and Portugal, I do believe.)

It could very well be that the Dutroux case was the tip of an iceberg and that a great deal remain submerged.

Totally agree. There is sometimes a thin line between information and DISinformation. In this case I think the line is drawn at abduction and I think we might be able to agree on that. Can we?

by j.rob 21.09.14 19:27

I certainly agree that she was not 'abducted' in the sense of being kidnapped by a mystery person or persons.

However "they have taken her" which Kate is alleged to have cried out on the night of her disappearance, might suggest that third parties were involved in removing Madeleine from the resort at some stage prior to the police arrival.

If Madeleine 'was taken' by people who were part of a wide paedophile network (and maybe a network with links to other organized crime) which may well be the case, then I believe it is a network which includes - at one level or another - at least some of the guests at the Ocean Club that week.

by j.rob 21.09.14 19:29

And a network that in all likelihood includes people who live in the wider area of Luz/the Algarve.

by Guest 21.09.14 19:31

j.rob wrote:I certainly agree that she was not 'abducted' in the sense of being kidnapped by a mystery person or persons.

However "they have taken her" which Kate is alleged to have cried out on the night of her disappearance, might suggest that third parties were involved in removing Madeleine from the resort at some stage prior to the police arrival.

If Madeleine 'was taken' by people who were part of a wide paedophile network (and maybe a network with links to other organized crime) which may well be the case, then I believe it is a network which includes - at one level or another - at least some of the guests at the Ocean Club that week.

The dogs,what about the dogs.

by cloak'ndagger 21.09.14 19:50

WMD wrote:
j.rob wrote:I certainly agree that she was not 'abducted' in the sense of being kidnapped by a mystery person or persons.

However "they have taken her" which Kate is alleged to have cried out on the night of her disappearance, might suggest that third parties were involved in removing Madeleine from the resort at some stage prior to the police arrival.

If Madeleine 'was taken' by people who were part of a wide paedophile network (and maybe a network with links to other organized crime) which may well be the case, then I believe it is a network which includes - at one level or another - at least some of the guests at the Ocean Club that week.
The dogs,what about the dogs.

Cadaver dog and alerts to blood in the area behind the sofa? Imo there is enough evidence to suggest Maddie died in apartment 5a so how can you reconcile your theory of a paedo network with the evidence to date?

by Hicks 21.09.14 19:56

It seems that this satanic stuff goes hand in hand with Paedophilia. You only have to Google 'satanic and child abuse' to see just how prolific it is around the world.

Reading the last few posts, it brought to mind the witness statement of a female who had a boyfriend working at the OC on the evening Madeleine went missing. She says something about the occult being involved in Madeleine's disappearance. I am feeling a bit brain dead this evening! I can't remember her name.
I wonder if anyone can help me out in finding her statement?

by missbeetle 21.09.14 20:16

Hicks wrote:It seems that this satanic stuff goes hand in hand with Paedophilia. You only have to Google 'satanic and child abuse' to see just how prolific it is around the world.

Reading the last few posts, it brought to mind the witness statement of a female who had a boyfriend working at the OC on the evening Madeleine went missing. She says something about the occult being involved in Madeleine's disappearance. I am feeling a bit brain dead this evening! I can't remember her name.
I wonder if anyone can help me out in finding her statement?

Hi Hicks - I don't think it was a witness statement as such - it was a comment by a lady 'Feranda' -

- at goncaloamaral.webs.com. The last posting (mine) on 'Comment left on Cristobell's Blog' thread has the details.

by Hicks 21.09.14 20:25

missbeetle wrote:
Hicks wrote:It seems that this satanic stuff goes hand in hand with Paedophilia. You only have to Google 'satanic and child abuse' to see just how prolific it is around the world.

Reading the last few posts, it brought to mind the witness statement of a female who had a boyfriend working at the OC on the evening Madeleine went missing. She says something about the occult being involved in Madeleine's disappearance. I am feeling a bit brain dead this evening! I can't remember her name.
I wonder if anyone can help me out in finding her statement?

Hi Hicks - I don't think it was a witness statement as such - it was a comment by a lady 'Feranda' -

- at goncaloamaral.webs.com. The last posting (mine) on 'Comment left on Cristobell's Blog' thread has the details.

Thanks missbeetle. It's been a long day!

by AndyB 21.09.14 21:45

j.rob wrote:I certainly agree that she was not 'abducted' in the sense of being kidnapped by a mystery person or persons.

What on earth does this mean? In what 'sense' was she 'kidnapped'?

j.rob wrote:However "they have taken her" which Kate is alleged to have cried out on the night of her disappearance, might suggest that third parties were involved in removing Madeleine from the resort at some stage prior to the police arrival.

Is there any corroborative evidence that she actually said this?

j.rob wrote:If Madeleine 'was taken' by people who were part of a wide paedophile network (and maybe a network with links to other organized crime) which may well be the case, then I believe it is a network which includes - at one level or another - at least some of the guests at the Ocean Club that week.

So you accept that she was abducted?

by **Tony Bennett** 21.09.14 22:12

AndyB wrote:
j.rob
However "they have taken her" which Kate is alleged to have cried out on the night of her disappearance, might suggest that third parties were involved in removing Madeleine from the resort at some stage prior to the police arrival.
Is there any corroborative evidence that she actually said this?

None whatseover

by XTC 21.09.14 22:33

cloak'ndagger wrote:
WMD wrote:
j.rob wrote:I certainly agree that she was not 'abducted' in the sense of being kidnapped by a mystery person or persons.

However "they have taken her" which Kate is alleged to have cried out on the night of her disappearance, might suggest that third parties were involved in removing Madeleine from the resort at some stage prior to the police arrival.

If Madeleine 'was taken' by people who were part of a wide paedophile network (and maybe a network with links to other organized crime) which may well be the case, then I believe it is a network which includes - at one level or another - at least some of the guests at the Ocean Club that week.
The dogs,what about the dogs.

Cadaver dog and alerts to blood in the area behind the sofa? Imo there is enough evidence to suggest Maddie died in apartment 5a so how can you reconcile your theory of a paedo network with the evidence to date?

Just as an addition to this; does anyone remember Yvonne Martin(?) the Social Worker taliking about Mrs McCann asking why a ' couple ' would have taken Madeleine?

It seems a strange thing to say - 'a couple' and I have read the tale ( for it was in the media somewhere ) that a 'couple ' went into 5a on the
Tuesday night to allegedly comfort a crying child.

by missbeetle 21.09.14 22:56

This article, XTC?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
(sorry, I still can't do links)

by j.rob 21.09.14 22:57

cloak'ndagger wrote:
WMD wrote:
j.rob wrote:I certainly agree that she was not 'abducted' in the sense of being kidnapped by a mystery person or persons.

However "they have taken her" which Kate is alleged to have cried out on the night of her disappearance, might suggest that third parties were involved in removing Madeleine from the resort at some stage prior to the police arrival.

If Madeleine 'was taken' by people who were part of a wide paedophile network (and maybe a network with links to other organized crime) which may well be the case, then I believe it is a network which includes - at one level or another - at least some of the guests at the Ocean Club that week.
The dogs,what about the dogs.

Cadaver dog and alerts to blood in the area behind the sofa? Imo there is enough evidence to suggest Maddie died in apartment 5a so how can you reconcile your theory of a paedo network with the evidence to date?

She might have died outside the apartment and then her body was brought back. I am not suggesting that TM are NOT involved in the disappearance. IMO they are. But I am simply suggesting that there might be wider networks operating, that is all.

by j.rob 21.09.14 23:03

AndyB wrote:
j.rob wrote:I certainly agree that she was not 'abducted' in the sense of being kidnapped by a mystery person or persons.
What on earth does this mean? In what 'sense' was she 'kidnapped'?

j.rob wrote:However "they have taken her" which Kate is alleged to have cried out on the night of her disappearance, might suggest that third parties were involved in removing Madeleine from the resort at some stage prior to the police arrival.
Is there any corroborative evidence that she actually said this?

j.rob wrote:If Madeleine 'was taken' by people who were part of a wide paedophile network (and maybe a network with links to other organized crime) which may well be the case, then I believe it is a network which includes - at one level or another - at least some of the guests at the Ocean Club that week.
So you accept that she was abducted?

I am saying she wasn't kidnapped or abducted by a mystery person. I believe that TM are involved in some level in what happened. But there may have been other people involved too. Or wider networks. It is possible.

The social worker claims that Kate said a couple had taken Madeleine.

Someone removed Madeleine from the resort that week. And I believe that at least some of TM have knowledge of who that person or persons are. It's possible that some of TM are part of a network, for instance.

So part of their story might be true, but they have simply omitted themselves from it!

This seems to be quite a favourite TM device.

by j.rob 21.09.14 23:05

missbeetle wrote:This article, XTC?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
(sorry, I still can't do links)

Thanks missb.

by Markus 2 21.09.14 23:08

She might have died outside the apartment and then her body was brought back. I am not suggesting that TM are NOT involved in the disappearance. IMO they are. But I am simply suggesting that there might be wider networks operating, that is all.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Exactly,

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Mystery couple seen going into McCanns’ flat on night before sobbing Madeleine disappeared

SCOTLAND YARD detectives are trying to find a middle-aged couple said to have entered Madeleine McCann’s holiday apartment to comfort her because she was crying, we can reveal today.

Now you would think they would have tried to find the parents ,or go back to the apartment the next day and tell them Madeline was in such a state that night. How could you leave a child like that if you had entered that apartment and found her like that. Odd imo.

by j.rob 21.09.14 23:15

Tony Bennett wrote:
AndyB wrote:
j.rob
However "they have taken her" which Kate is alleged to have cried out on the night of her disappearance, might suggest that third parties were involved in removing Madeleine from the resort at some stage prior to the police arrival.
Is there any corroborative evidence that she actually said this?
None whatseover

From the McCann files:

Heart specialist Gerry McCann rang his sister Trish in Scotland after Maddy vanished from her cot placed between two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie.
Trish revealed yesterday: "He was breaking his heart, saying 'Madeleine's been abducted, she's been abducted'."
Trish said: "When Kate checked, she came out screaming. Maddy had gone. The door was open and the window in the bedroom and shutters were jemmied open. Nothing had been touched and no valuables taken."
"Kate came screaming back to the group crying, 'They’ve taken her, they’ve taken her'. Gerry was crying and roaring like a bull."
"They think someone must have come in the window and gone out the door with her."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Markus 2 21.09.14 23:19

Is there any corroborative evidence that she actually said this?

None whatseover

I think if we take that negative route we might as well dismiss everything.

We could ask is there any corroborative evidence that those e-fits dont exist.

by Markus 2 21.09.14 23:30

The tip-off was given by two key witnesses who were reinterviewed as part of the Yard’s two-year, £4.5million investigation.
It is already known that Pamela Fenn, who lived directly above apartment 5a, heard a child, believed to be Madeleine, crying for about an hour on the evening of May 2.
She was so concerned she rang a friend in the village to ask what to do and considered ringing Portugal’s Policia Judiciaria.
At the time, Madeleine’s mother Kate and father Gerry were dining with friends at a tapas bar some 50 yards from the apartment

I wonder if this couple were alerted to Madeline via someone linked to the call Mrs Venn made to her friend and even then it could have been a friend of a friend who actually went to the apartment . Be interesting to know who they were.

They then knew this was a likely pattern of the Kate and Gerry to leave their children .

by j.rob 21.09.14 23:43

Markus 2 wrote:She might have died outside the apartment and then her body was brought back. I am not suggesting that TM are NOT involved in the disappearance. IMO they are. But I am simply suggesting that there might be wider networks operating, that is all.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Exactly,

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Mystery couple seen going into McCanns’ flat on night before sobbing Madeleine disappeared
SCOTLAND YARD detectives are trying to find a middle-aged couple said to have entered Madeleine McCann’s holiday apartment to comfort her because she was crying, we can reveal today.

Now you would think they would have tried to find the parents ,or go back to the apartment the next day and tell them Madeline was in such a state that night. How could you leave a child like that if you had entered that apartment and found her like that. Odd imo.

So are the mystery soothing couple that supposedly went into the apartment to soothe Madeleine on Wednesday evening the same as the couple that were woken up at 11.30pm by a friend of the McCanns and asked if they had a computer so they could get media involved?

Or a different couple? Maybe the couple that witnessed the 'soothing couple' going in to the apartment on Wednesday. The article is not entirely clear. If it is the same couple, and the 'soothing' story of Wednesday evening is true, how interesting that a friend of the McCanns called at their particular apartment asking for a computer. Surely it would have been more logical to try reception? I wonder what the Mc friend may have been trying to find out?

And whether the mystery soothing couple do have any links with Pamela Fenn. Maybe Mrs Fenn spoke to someone/people at the resort the following morning after the crying episode she heard on 2nd May. And some other people were on the alert. Aware that the McCann children were being left alone.

Who knows, maybe Mrs Fenn did phone OC reception or police? Or someone else did? Either that night or the following day/evening.

Tuesday 2nd May - Mrs Fenn hears crying from the apartment for an hour and a quarter.
Wednesday 3rd May - a couple are reported to have entered the apartment to soothe a crying Madeleine.
Kate claims that at breakfast Madeleine asked why she and Gerry did not go to them when they cried the evening before.
Thursday 4th May - the McCanns claim Madeleine is abducted.

by Markus 2 22.09.14 6:07

No it is not clear which couple they are.

Kate claims that at breakfast Madeleine asked why she and Gerry did not go to them when they cried the evening before. Kate said she wondered if anyone had entered the apartment the night before she was taken and she wished she had questioned Madeline more .

I see this a fairly recent inquiry. Wonder if they found them.
SCOTAND YARD detectives are trying to find a middle-aged couple said to have entered Madeleine McCann’s holiday apartment to comfort her because she was crying, we can reveal today.
It is believed they entered the bedroom on May 2, 2007, the evening before Madeleine disappeared from the Ocean Club at Praia da Luz on Portugal’s Algarve.
The tip-off was given by two key witnesses who were reinterviewed as part of the Yard’s two-year, £4.5million investigation.

by bobbin 22.09.14 8:40

j.rob wrote:
Markus 2 wrote:She might have died outside the apartment and then her body was brought back. I am not suggesting that TM are NOT involved in the disappearance. IMO they are. But I am simply suggesting that there might be wider networks operating, that is all.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Exactly,

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Mystery couple seen going into McCanns’ flat on night before sobbing Madeleine disappeared
SCOTLAND YARD detectives are trying to find a middle-aged couple said to have entered Madeleine McCann’s holiday apartment to comfort her because she was crying, we can reveal today.

Now you would think they would have tried to find the parents ,or go back to the apartment the next day and tell them Madeline was in such a state that night. How could you leave a child like that if you had entered that apartment and found her like that. Odd imo.

So are the mystery soothing couple that supposedly went into the apartment to soothe Madeleine on Wednesday evening the same as the couple that were woken up at 11.30pm by a friend of the McCanns and asked if they had a computer so they could get media involved?

Or a different couple? Maybe the couple that witnessed the 'soothing couple' going in to the apartment on Wednesday. The article is not entirely clear. If it is the same couple, and the 'soothing' story of Wednesday evening is true, how interesting that a friend of the McCanns called at their particular apartment asking for a computer. Surely it would have been more logical to try reception? I wonder what the Mc friend may have been trying to find out?

And whether the mystery soothing couple do have any links with Pamela Fenn. Maybe Mrs Fenn spoke to someone/people at the resort the following morning after the crying episode she heard on 2nd May. And some other people were on the alert. Aware that the McCann children were being left alone.

Who knows, maybe Mrs Fenn did phone OC reception or police? Or someone else did? Either that night or the following day/evening.

Tuesday 2nd May - Mrs Fenn hears crying from the apartment for an hour and a quarter.
Wednesday 3rd May - a couple are reported to have entered the apartment to soothe a crying Madeleine.
Kate claims that at breakfast Madeleine asked why she and Gerry did not go to them when they cried the evening before.
Thursday 4th May - the McCanns claim Madeleine is abducted.

hi j.rob, The dates above need to be corrected.
I know it's very confusing but Saturday was 28th April.
Sunday 29th.
Monday 30th April.
Tuesday 1st May.

Wednesday 2nd May.

Thursday 3rd May.

Tuesday 1st was the night Mrs. Fenn reported crying.
Wednesday 2nd is the day Kate and Gerry try to bring 'confusion' in and are mixing times and places up to create a magnificent broth of confusion.
Tuesday 1st is the date also when the gym mistress is supposed to have done the quiz and Gerry invited her to table and Kate may not have been there. According to Mrs. Fenn, the crying stopped the moment she heard the patio door either open or shut. Kate's phone made calls that evening from the pings/in or right by 5A.

For me, the crying event is important enough for the McCs to try to shift time and place.
This would have to indicate that either they 'knew' that Mrs. Fenn had reported it, or at least that 'someone' had reported it.
There has been the confusion as to which night if any, K and G were at Chaplins, late into the night, and if and how the OC had offered them child minding services, subsequent to the crying in parents' absence incident, given that someone is supposed to have gone looking for K and G at Chaplins ? to get them to go back to crying children.

by HelenMeg 22.09.14 9:47

I hope that this mystery couple are not being brought in as the potential abuctors - trying to save the crying girl by whisking her into a better life.

by j.rob 22.09.14 13:04

Markus 2 wrote:She might have died outside the apartment and then her body was brought back. I am not suggesting that TM are NOT involved in the disappearance. IMO they are. But I am simply suggesting that there might be wider networks operating, that is all.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Exactly,

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Mystery couple seen going into McCanns’ flat on night before sobbing Madeleine disappeared
SCOTLAND YARD detectives are trying to find a middle-aged couple said to have entered Madeleine McCann’s holiday apartment to comfort her because she was crying, we can reveal today.

Now you would think they would have tried to find the parents ,or go back to the apartment the next day and tell them Madeline was in such a state that night. How could you leave a child like that if you had entered that apartment and found her like that. Odd imo.

On the other hand, if the parents are so neglectful that they leave their children alone at night, crying for long periods of time unattended, then perhaps whoever heard the crying/went in to check felt they needed to contact someone other than the parents?

by j.rob 22.09.14 14:01

bobbin wrote:
j.rob wrote:
Markus 2 wrote:She might have died outside the apartment and then her body was brought back. I am not suggesting that TM are NOT involved in the disappearance. IMO they are. But I am simply suggesting that there might be wider networks operating, that is all.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Exactly,

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Mystery couple seen going into McCanns’ flat on night before sobbing Madeleine disappeared
SCOTLAND YARD detectives are trying to find a middle-aged couple said to have entered Madeleine McCann’s holiday apartment to comfort her because she was crying, we can reveal today.

Now you would think they would have tried to find the parents ,or go back to the apartment the next day and tell them Madeline was in such a state that night. How could you leave a child like that if you had entered that apartment and found her like that. Odd imo.

So are the mystery soothing couple that supposedly went into the apartment to soothe Madeleine on Wednesday evening the same as the couple that were woken up at 11.30pm by a friend of the McCanns and asked if they had a computer so they could get media involved?

Or a different couple? Maybe the couple that witnessed the 'soothing couple' going in to the apartment on Wednesday. The article is not entirely clear. If it is the same couple, and the 'soothing' story of Wednesday evening is true, how interesting that a friend of the McCanns called at their particular apartment asking for a computer. Surely it would have been more logical to try reception? I wonder what the Mc friend may have been trying to find out?

And whether the mystery soothing couple do have any links with Pamela Fenn. Maybe Mrs Fenn spoke to someone/people at the resort the following morning after the crying episode she heard on 2nd May. And some other people were on the alert. Aware that the McCann children were being left alone.

Who knows, maybe Mrs Fenn did phone OC reception or police? Or someone else did? Either that night or the following day/evening.

Tuesday 2nd May - Mrs Fenn hears crying from the apartment for an hour and a quarter.
Wednesday 3rd May - a couple are reported to have entered the apartment to soothe a crying Madeleine.
Kate claims that at breakfast Madeleine asked why she and Gerry did not go to them when they cried the evening before.
Thursday 4th May - the McCanns claim Madeleine is abducted.
hi j.rob, The dates above need to be corrected.
I know it's very confusing but Saturday was 28th April.
Sunday 29th.
Monday 30th April.
Tuesday 1st May.

Wednesday 2nd May.

Thursday 3rd May.

Tuesday 1st was the night Mrs. Fenn reported crying.
Wednesday 2nd is the day Kate and Gerry try to bring 'confusion' in and are mixing times and places up to create a magnificent broth of confusion.
Tuesday 1st is the date also when the gym mistress is supposed to have done the quiz and Gerry invited her to table and Kate may not have been there. According to Mrs. Fenn, the crying stopped the moment she heard the patio door either open or shut. Kate's phone made calls that evening from the pings/in or right by 5A.

For me, the crying event is important enough for the McCs to try to shift time and place.
This would have to indicate that either they 'knew' that Mrs. Fenn had reported it, or at least that 'someone' had reported it.
There has been the confusion as to which night if any, K and G were at Chaplins, late into the night, and if and how the OC had offered them child minding services, subsequent to the crying in parents' absence incident, given that someone is supposed to have gone looking for K and G at Chaplins ? to get them to go back to crying children.

Thanks for the correction! I too think the crying incident as heard by Mrs Fenn is important. I also think that Kate may have thrown a wobbly on Tuesday after Gerry invited the quiz mistress to his table. The quiz mistress may also have caught gerry's eye on Sunday evening when she also hosted a quiz evening at the tapas so there could have been some tensions rising from very early on during that holiday (and probably from before too). I agree that Kate and Gerry have tried to shift times of crying to other nights to downplay what happened on Tuesday. Although Kate does write that Amelie cried in the early hours of the night, on Tuesday, waking up Madeleine who slept in their bed. Kate then shifts their 'tiff' to Wednesday evening. And records how they went to bed later so there was a 45 minute period where the children were not checked.

Could this have been when the mystery soothers went in? It creates quite a long time -scale for that? I suspect though that the soothing couple may be a media invention and that something fairly cataclysmic happened on Tuesday evening.

If someone had also gone to find them while they were at Chaplins - on wed or another night ?- and subsequently offered childminding services to avoid further crying incidences the the whole week is adding up to a massive catalogue of neglect.

Also if OC staff noticed that TM were not always at the Tapas but went further afield it could well have raised eyebrows so other people in the resort were looking out for the children.

Imo.

by Hicks 22.09.14 14:16

I am beginning to think that this mystery couple was, and is still, part of a plan to spread disinformation. I am of the opinion that this investigation is a cover up, nothing I have seen so far leads me to think otherwise. And if this is the case, then how can we trust what is put into print when we have a media manipulator in charge of all information?
This was perhaps just another attempt to plant the idea of abduction.

If there had been a mystery couple then why haven't they come forward? Why didn't anyone else in PDL at the time come forward with info on the couple? They must have been seen/known by others there.

What we can trust though without any doubt is the information the dogs gave us.

by j.rob 22.09.14 14:40

Hicks wrote:I am beginning to think that this mystery couple was, and is still, part of a plan to spread disinformation. I am of the opinion that this investigation is a cover up, nothing I have seen so far leads me to think otherwise. And if this is the case, then how can we trust what is put into print when we have a media manipulator in charge of all information?
This was perhaps just another attempt to plant the idea of abduction.

If there had been a mystery couple then why haven't they come forward? Why didn't anyone else in PDL at the time come forward with info on the couple? They must have been seen/known by others there.

What we can trust though without any doubt is the information the dogs gave us.

Yes it could be that the soothing couple were invented to place Madeleine as alive and well on Wednesday night. But the Mrs Fenn crying incident and the quiz night are both on record. And the Irish interviewer was gloating massively when he asked Kate about the row she and Gerry had that week. So I think that some kind of row is significant.

I do trust the dog alerts and were it not for that I think the Mcs would have got away with it. I think that is what gave them away. I think there was a plan for a live faked abduction which was botched. They never anticipated sniffer dogs going in so long after the event as they thought everyone had fallen for the abduction story.

by Hicks 22.09.14 15:09

j.rob wrote:
Hicks wrote:I am beginning to think that this mystery couple was, and is still, part of a plan to spread disinformation. I am of the opinion that this investigation is a cover up, nothing I have seen so far leads me to think otherwise. And if this is the case, then how can we trust what is put into print when we have a media manipulator in charge of all information?
This was perhaps just another attempt to plant the idea of abduction.

If there had been a mystery couple then why haven't they come forward? Why didn't anyone else in PDL at the time come forward with info on the couple? They must have been seen/known by others there.

What we can trust though without any doubt is the information the dogs gave us.
Yes it could be that the soothing couple were invented to place Madeleine as alive and well on Wednesday night. But the Mrs Fenn crying incident and the quiz night are both on record. And the Irish interviewer was gloating massively when he asked Kate about the row she and Gerry had that week. So I think that some kind of row is significant.

I do trust the dog alerts and were it not for that I think the Mcs would have got away with it. I think that is what gave them away. I think there was a plan for a live faked abduction which was botched. They never anticipated sniffer dogs going in so long after the event as they thought everyone had fallen for the abduction story.

Mrs Fenn heard the crying on the Tuesday night(1st) On Thursday the McCann's routine changed, it's likely then that the death happened on the Wednesday evening whilst Madeleine had her pyjamas on. I bet the McCann's had a row alright, not over any quiz lady either. The bruises on Kate's wrists are telling.

It could be that the McCann's nanny back in Rothley did let them down at the last minute by not going on holiday to look after the children. It seemed like the holiday was not for the family to enjoy together. I bet our Kate resented the fact that she had to do most of the chores for the children, and not jog/play tennis when she wanted.
In very early newspaper reports there are tales of Kate putting the children to bed outside of crèche times and laying by the pool, during the day. Madeleine could be a hand full by all accounts. Its not hard to imagine Kate's resentment.
I will try to find some of these reports later.