Re: Tony was right was he not?

by galena 14.06.14 10:41

G1 wrote:
Snifferdog wrote:What about Kate's pants, and other articles of clothing that had cadaver scent? Did the supposed abducters come back for the blue bag and pink blanket after they "took" Madeleine??? Sorry but you have to be joking no?

What could be easier, Snifferdog?

Members of a large gang who abducted Madeleine McCann perform their follow up acts any day within months of the abduction, when the parents are away. All it takes is a half an hour or less. Then it's not a matter of waiting for cadaver to develop, they have heavily impregnated items of cadaver scent, much decayed cadaver to make thing easier still. Being professional criminals, they gain access and impregnate areas and especially a few particular items that can be associated with the child.

This can be the easiest thing in the world for an abductor. The hard part has been done already, in early May. What is it that brings such disbelief here, or is it just more of the same - never consider anything against the grain of the McCann's guilt, especially theories which can make basic, clear sense?

My own amazement remains though, at your own theories which hold that these experienced, very intelligent doctors, for sure aware that sniffer dogs are likely to come along soon enough, thought, "Ah, we'll just dump a 4 month corpse in our hire car anyway."

This is one of the most ridiculous ideas I've heard.

I agree with you about the hire car - that has never made sense to me either. But I find it hard to believe that an international gang would go to all that trouble to abduct Madeleine knowing that it would lead to an international search, when there are plenty of countries where you could buy a similar child for a relatively small sum of money, or abduct her without any fuss. Still it's an interesting theory and TBH it's no more farfetched than many theories which implicate the parents ...

by Guest 14.06.14 10:48

candyfloss wrote:I'm sorry but you are taking the 'p' I have never heard such nonsense. I am all for discussing theories, and letting people have opinions, but you are here to disrupt with such rubbish.

PS So you think I and Snifferdog are hideous people hmmm........

Thank you candyfloss, my blood pressure was going up again as I was reading the thread just when I thought it was safe to enter the water again roses

by Snifferdog 14.06.14 10:52

galena wrote:
G1 wrote:
Snifferdog wrote:What about Kate's pants, and other articles of clothing that had cadaver scent? Did the supposed abducters come back for the blue bag and pink blanket after they "took" Madeleine??? Sorry but you have to be joking no?

What could be easier, Snifferdog?

Members of a large gang who abducted Madeleine McCann perform their follow up acts any day within months of the abduction, when the parents are away. All it takes is a half an hour or less. Then it's not a matter of waiting for cadaver to develop, they have heavily impregnated items of cadaver scent, much decayed cadaver to make thing easier still. Being professional criminals, they gain access and impregnate areas and especially a few particular items that can be associated with the child.

This can be the easiest thing in the world for an abductor. The hard part has been done already, in early May. What is it that brings such disbelief here, or is it just more of the same - never consider anything against the grain of the McCann's guilt, especially theories which can make basic, clear sense?

My own amazement remains though, at your own theories which hold that these experienced, very intelligent doctors, for sure aware that sniffer dogs are likely to come along soon enough, thought, "Ah, we'll just dump a 4 month corpse in our hire car anyway."

This is one of the most ridiculous ideas I've heard.
I agree with you about the hire car - that has never made sense to me either. But I find it hard to believe that an international gang would go to all that trouble to abduct Madeleine knowing that it would lead to an international search, when there are plenty of countries where you could buy a similar child for a relatively small sum of money, or abduct her without any fuss. Still it's an interesting theory and TBH it's no more farfetched than many theories which implicate the parents ...

It would not make sense to say the parents dumped the body in the hire car four months later - but it would make sense to say the parents USED the hire car to dump the body four months later.

by Guest 14.06.14 11:10

Like a lot of people I always thought cadaver dogs were for finding cadavers.
Even as a doggie person I didn't realise their amazing capacity to detect even the places where cadavers had been. Many years later even.
Other scent dogs like a truffle dog or a fox hound only trace fresh scent. Imagine if a dog detected all the places truffles had been maybe last year or the year before. Or after they had been eaten by the wild boar. They would lose their job.

Training scent dogs seems to be a very rapidly developing field with the new uses for detecting diabetes and cancer etc.

ASAIK cadaver dogs and their uses were not taught in medical school historically, they may well be now, but I would seriously doubt if they were back in the early 1990's. Forensic medicine as an undergraduate is usually only a two week block. And deals more with doctors being able to detect the signs of foul play when making a post-mortem examination for signing a death certificate.
Finding cadavers is highly specialised police work.
So it would not surprise me that GM and KM made sure that Madeleines body could not be found by the dogs. But didn't realise at the time of disposal that the body leaves a trail that lasts a very long time, and is resistant to even clinical cleaning.

by fossey 14.06.14 11:18

dantezebu wrote:So it would not surprise me that GM and KM made sure that Madeleines body could not be found by the dogs. But didn't realise at the time of disposal that the body leaves a trail that lasts a very long time, and is resistant to even clinical cleaning.

EXACTLY.

They underestimated the dogs big time. After the very meticulous clean up they assumed that all traces would be 'whooshed'.

Wrong.

Then to to try and discredit the dogs with smelly seabass porkies is just LUDICROUS.

by Cristobell 14.06.14 11:21

candyfloss wrote:I'm sorry but you are taking the 'p' I have never heard such nonsense. I am all for discussing theories, and letting people have opinions, but you are here to disrupt with such rubbish.

PS So you think I and Snifferdog are hideous people hmmm........

This may be a good place for TM to test out new ideas to explain away the existing evidence. Clearly this one will never get off the ground. smilie

by juliet 14.06.14 11:40

The Mccanns have always claimed an abductor. The new idea suggests abductors turning up with their pockets full of anaesthetic drugs, cadaver scent, blood sprayers, cleaning materials and a size five trainer to leave a bloody smear.

by galena 14.06.14 12:00

Snifferdog wrote:
galena wrote:
G1 wrote:
Snifferdog wrote:What about Kate's pants, and other articles of clothing that had cadaver scent? Did the supposed abducters come back for the blue bag and pink blanket after they "took" Madeleine??? Sorry but you have to be joking no?

What could be easier, Snifferdog?

Members of a large gang who abducted Madeleine McCann perform their follow up acts any day within months of the abduction, when the parents are away. All it takes is a half an hour or less. Then it's not a matter of waiting for cadaver to develop, they have heavily impregnated items of cadaver scent, much decayed cadaver to make thing easier still. Being professional criminals, they gain access and impregnate areas and especially a few particular items that can be associated with the child.

This can be the easiest thing in the world for an abductor. The hard part has been done already, in early May. What is it that brings such disbelief here, or is it just more of the same - never consider anything against the grain of the McCann's guilt, especially theories which can make basic, clear sense?

My own amazement remains though, at your own theories which hold that these experienced, very intelligent doctors, for sure aware that sniffer dogs are likely to come along soon enough, thought, "Ah, we'll just dump a 4 month corpse in our hire car anyway."

This is one of the most ridiculous ideas I've heard.
I agree with you about the hire car - that has never made sense to me either. But I find it hard to believe that an international gang would go to all that trouble to abduct Madeleine knowing that it would lead to an international search, when there are plenty of countries where you could buy a similar child for a relatively small sum of money, or abduct her without any fuss. Still it's an interesting theory and TBH it's no more farfetched than many theories which implicate the parents ...

It would not make sense to say the parents dumped the body in the hire car four months later - but it would make sense to say the parents USED the hire car to dump the body four months later.

Yes, I know that but it's still a big risk to take - and it certainly suggests that they were pretty desperate and acted alone - otherwise they would surely have found an accomplice to dispose of the body in a vehicle that couldn't be traced back to them. One thing for sure the hire car evidence came as a complete surprise to everyone on the forums at the time and sparked off a lot of interesting debate ...

by **Nina** 14.06.14 12:46

fossey wrote:
dantezebu wrote:So it would not surprise me that GM and KM made sure that Madeleines body could not be found by the dogs. But didn't realise at the time of disposal that the body leaves a trail that lasts a very long time, and is resistant to even clinical cleaning.
EXACTLY.

They underestimated the dogs big time. After the very meticulous clean up they assumed that all traces would be 'whooshed'.

Wrong.

Then to to try and discredit the dogs with smelly seabass porkies is just LUDICROUS.

They only did this re the sea-bass when they had done their research and had the eureka moment when they discovered that there are rather vague similarities to this 9 day old rotting fish and cadaverine. There are other similarities with other secretions but not as uppper class to speak of, but sea-bass, wow ticked the cadaverine box and the upper middle class box too, oh the joy in Rothley Manor that day.

by fossey 14.06.14 12:54

Nina wrote:
fossey wrote:
dantezebu wrote:So it would not surprise me that GM and KM made sure that Madeleines body could not be found by the dogs. But didn't realise at the time of disposal that the body leaves a trail that lasts a very long time, and is resistant to even clinical cleaning.
EXACTLY.

They underestimated the dogs big time. After the very meticulous clean up they assumed that all traces would be 'whooshed'.

Wrong.

Then to to try and discredit the dogs with smelly seabass porkies is just LUDICROUS.
They only did this re the sea-bass when they had done their research and had the eureka moment when they discovered that there are rather vague similarities to this 9 day old rotting fish and cadaverine. There are other similarities with other secretions but not as uppper class to speak of, but sea-bass, wow ticked the cadaverine box and the upper middle class box too, oh the joy in Rothley Manor that day.

Yes, i gather there are vague similarities.

Even so - to blog to the world, that your 2 year old son has taken an instant like to consuming vast quantities of Seabass for breakfast, lunch and dinner (slight exaggeration, but words to that affect) to try and morph the similarities together is just LUDICROUS.

by Miraflores 14.06.14 13:21

It would have been a lot easier for them to declare that Kate had taken a liking to sea bass, perhaps as some sort of health kick, instead of the claims that she had been around 6 dead bodies in the weeks before her holiday.

Incidentally, who is it who made that claim?

by bobbin 14.06.14 13:27

Nina wrote:
fossey wrote:
dantezebu wrote:So it would not surprise me that GM and KM made sure that Madeleines body could not be found by the dogs. But didn't realise at the time of disposal that the body leaves a trail that lasts a very long time, and is resistant to even clinical cleaning.
EXACTLY.

They underestimated the dogs big time. After the very meticulous clean up they assumed that all traces would be 'whooshed'.

Wrong.

Then to to try and discredit the dogs with smelly seabass porkies is just LUDICROUS.
They only did this re the sea-bass when they had done their research and had the eureka moment when they discovered that there are rather vague similarities to this 9 day old rotting fish and cadaverine. There are other similarities with other secretions but not as uppper class to speak of, but sea-bass, wow ticked the cadaverine box and the upper middle class box too, oh the joy in Rothley Manor that day.

Fascinating comment Nina.

I'd be interested to know what a 'lower class' secretion similar to cadaverine might be.
If a description is at risk of being a bit 'delicate' or might disturb someone about to tuck into their dinner, would you please P.M. me.

Am always wishing to learn, and you, with your medical background, have often got your finger on the pulse. big grin

by fossey 14.06.14 13:30

Miraflores wrote:It would have been a lot easier for them to declare that Kate had taken a liking to sea bass, perhaps as some sort of health kick, instead of the claims that she had been around 6 dead bodies in the weeks before her holiday.

Incidentally, who is it who made that claim?

What, the claim about Kate the part time GP and Cuddlecat attending to 6 dead bodies just prior to the 2007 Portugal holiday or the claim that Sean developed a strict Seabass diet in the days after the dogs signalled..?

by **PeterMac** 14.06.14 13:30

dantezebu wrote:
ASAIK cadaver dogs and their uses were not taught in medical school historically, they may well be now, but I would seriously doubt if they were back in the early 1990's. Forensic medicine as an undergraduate is usually only a two week block. .

16 "Cadaver dogs– a study on detection of contaminated carpet squares."
Oesterhelweg L, Kröber S, Rottmann K, Willhöft J, Braun C, Thies N,
Püschel K, Silkenath J, Gehl A.
Institute of Legal Medicine, University Medical Center Hamburg, Germany.
Forensic Sci Int. 2008 Jan 15;174(1):35-9

17 Cadaver dog and handler team capabilities in the recovery of buried
human remains in the southeastern United States.
Lasseter AE, Jacobi KP, Farley R, Hensel L.
Department of Anthropology, University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa, AL 35487-
0210, USA.
J Forensic Sci. 2003 May;48(3):617-21.

18 The use of cadaver dogs in locating scattered, scavenged human
remains: preliminary field test results.
Komar D.
Department of Anthropology, University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada.
J Forensic Sci. 1999 Mar;44(2):405-8.

These were only the three most relevant abstracts I found when I was doing the research.
Gerry MUST have come across them, they popped up on a simple google search, so it remains a mystery why Kate wrote what she did in the autobiography Exhibit KH 1

by galena 14.06.14 15:28

Wasn't Gerry a bit of true crime fan (like myself)? I have a vague memory of this being discussed some time in the past ...

by Liz Eagles 14.06.14 15:33

Miraflores wrote:It would have been a lot easier for them to declare that Kate had taken a liking to sea bass, perhaps as some sort of health kick, instead of the claims that she had been around 6 dead bodies in the weeks before her holiday.

Incidentally, who is it who made that claim?

Gerry's Blogs reveal Sean has taken a liking to sea bass.

Gerry's Blogs also reveal you may have noticed the twins have had a haircut.

by fossey 14.06.14 15:35

galena wrote:Wasn't Gerry a bit of true crime fan (like myself)? I have a vague memory of this being discussed some time in the past ...

As far as i can see galena, Gerry is a massive fan of himself. He literally can't get enough of it.

by fossey 14.06.14 15:39

aquila wrote:Gerry's Blogs reveal Sean has taken a liking to sea bass.

Gerry's Blogs also reveal you may have noticed the twins have had a haircut.

Hair cut..? Really...? No way....!!!

Damn - I must of missed that blog. Sounded like a riveting read.

by Snifferdog 14.06.14 16:03

for you fossey. A link to Gerry McCanns blogs. Kindly saved and made available by Steel Magnolia.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Unless you're being facetious big grin

?

by Miraflores 14.06.14 16:26

What, the claim about Kate the part time GP and Cuddlecat attending to 6 dead bodies

Yes, this is the one I meant. I have never been able to trace who said that - one of Gerry's relatives, possibly?

Not Gerry declaring that Sean had developed a liking for sea-bass.

by fossey 14.06.14 16:27

Snifferdog wrote:for you fossey. A link to Gerry McCanns blogs. Kindly saved and made available by Steel Magnolia.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Unless you're being facetious ?

Haha - Cheers Snifferdog.

Will invest in a sick bucket and take time to read through them all at some point but can't promise it.

What a narcissist - writing blogs. Who gives a flying fcuk what he's up to.

I'm surprised he didn't set up a 'Gerry Fan Club' ltd company thinking that loads of teenage girls would want to donate hard cash in return for pin up posters of the pratt etc.

by fossey 14.06.14 16:31

Miraflores wrote:
What, the claim about Kate the part time GP and Cuddlecat attending to 6 dead bodies
Yes, this is the one I meant. I have never been able to trace who said that - one of Gerry's relatives, possibly?

Not Gerry declaring that Sean had developed a liking for sea-bass.

I'm not sure Miraflores. Seem to recall it could of been the hideous Philomena but i stand to be corrected. Not if Philomena is hideous but if she made that comment!!!

Unless Cuddlecat said it? CC took Kate along to do 6 autopsy's. Just as believable as anything else that is spouted from TM.

by Liz Eagles 14.06.14 16:33

fossey wrote:
Snifferdog wrote:for you fossey. A link to Gerry McCanns blogs. Kindly saved and made available by Steel Magnolia.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Unless you're being facetious ?
Haha - Cheers Snifferdog.

Will invest in a sick bucket and take time to read through them all at some point but can't promise it.

What a narcissist - writing blogs. Who gives a flying fcuk what he's up to.

I'm surprised he didn't set up a 'Gerry Fan Club' ltd company thinking that loads of teenage girls would want to donate hard cash in return for pin up posters of the pratt etc.

Please do take time to read Gerry's blogs. They're enlightening.

by Guest 14.06.14 16:40

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Some information here about the origins of the six bodies story.

by Snifferdog 14.06.14 16:50

fossey wrote:
Snifferdog wrote:for you fossey. A link to Gerry McCanns blogs. Kindly saved and made available by Steel Magnolia.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Unless you're being facetious ?
Haha - Cheers Snifferdog.

Will invest in a sick bucket and take time to read through them all at some point but can't promise it.

What a narcissist - writing blogs. Who gives a flying fcuk what he's up to.

I'm surprised he didn't set up a 'Gerry Fan Club' ltd company thinking that loads of teenage girls would want to donate hard cash in return for pin up posters of the pratt etc.

Printed toilet paper anyone?

by Liz Eagles 14.06.14 16:58

Snifferdog wrote:
fossey wrote:
Snifferdog wrote:for you fossey. A link to Gerry McCanns blogs. Kindly saved and made available by Steel Magnolia.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Unless you're being facetious ?
Haha - Cheers Snifferdog.

Will invest in a sick bucket and take time to read through them all at some point but can't promise it.

What a narcissist - writing blogs. Who gives a flying fcuk what he's up to.

I'm surprised he didn't set up a 'Gerry Fan Club' ltd company thinking that loads of teenage girls would want to donate hard cash in return for pin up posters of the pratt etc.

Printed toilet paper anyone?

I certainly have a bad smell in my nostrils.

by Guest 14.06.14 16:59

Nina wrote: [...] There are other similarities with other secretions but not as upper class to speak of, but sea-bass, wow ticked the cadaverine box and the upper middle class box too, oh the joy in Rothley Manor that day.

***
E.g. candida albicans?

by Woofer 14.06.14 17:00

fossey wrote:
Miraflores wrote:
What, the claim about Kate the part time GP and Cuddlecat attending to 6 dead bodies
Yes, this is the one I meant. I have never been able to trace who said that - one of Gerry's relatives, possibly?

Not Gerry declaring that Sean had developed a liking for sea-bass.
I'm not sure Miraflores. Seem to recall it could of been the hideous Philomena but i stand to be corrected. Not if Philomena is hideous but if she made that comment!!!

Unless Cuddlecat said it? CC took Kate along to do 6 autopsy's. Just as believable as anything else that is spouted from TM.

I`m sure it was Kate`s Mum that said that. Her Mum must have asked her why Eddie alerted to her checked trousers - I can just imagine her fobbing her Mum off by saying she`d been with 6 dead bodies that week. Mum believes her and blurts it to the press. Had a check round and Iris on MM is convinced it was Susan Healy as well.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Snifferdog 14.06.14 17:53

aquila wrote:
Snifferdog wrote:
fossey wrote:
Snifferdog wrote:for you fossey. A link to Gerry McCanns blogs. Kindly saved and made available by Steel Magnolia.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Unless you're being facetious ?
Haha - Cheers Snifferdog.

Will invest in a sick bucket and take time to read through them all at some point but can't promise it.

What a narcissist - writing blogs. Who gives a flying fcuk what he's up to.

I'm surprised he didn't set up a 'Gerry Fan Club' ltd company thinking that loads of teenage girls would want to donate hard cash in return for pin up posters of the pratt etc.

Printed toilet paper anyone?
I certainly have a bad smell in my nostrils.

They can print "his and hers".

by lj 15.06.14 15:06

G1 wrote:If, theoretically, the McCanns knew there would be cadaver scent left in the flat, I feel there's just no way any half-rational person trying to cover up their blame in their daughter's death, would put her corpse in the back of a car hired weeks after the disappearance. They're doctors. They're very intelligent, it seems. They know intimately about cadaver scent. They are aware that scent dogs are very likely to be brought in if the child isn't located. They can't not be aware of this. They know the scent can't be extinguished probably for years, no matter what you do. This is something any professional medic such as the McCanns know.

I doubt cadaver scent is as a general matter taught in medical school. Apart from that the pathetic parents did not seem to have profit a lot of the courses: being :nver leave toddlers alone being a very important one, reinforced by all those heartbreaking cases of young patients being brought in after the parents took their eyes of them for a second, not even neglecting them evening after evening while the parents were getting loaded.

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