Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Rather depressing article on SY in the Independent, especially this quote:

A former senior officer, who recently retired from Scotland Yard, told The Independent: “Nothing has changed. The Met is still every bit as corrupt as it was back then.”

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rustyjames wrote:Rather depressing article on SY in the Independent, especially this quote:

A former senior officer, who recently retired from Scotland Yard, told The Independent: “Nothing has changed. The Met is still every bit as corrupt as it was back then.”

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I'm sure that's true, but of course not in the case of Operation Grange, which is clearly an honest and sincere, no-holds-barred investigation into the truth, led by a very senior Met officer with an unimpeachable reputation for robust and successful investigations.

The very fact that the whole £6 million-plus investigation was triggered by that woman of outstanding virtue, Rebekah Brooks, threatening the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom with 'a week of bad headlines' about Theresa May, the Home Secretary, only adds weight to the utter sincerity of this whole investigation. As does the declaration by David Cameron's spokesman that the sole purpose of the investigation is to 'help the family'. Plus of course the official  remit - which was to investigate 'the abduction as if it had happend in the UK'. There could scarcely be more clues than in the above that there is no hint of even a scintilla of corruption in this case.

The current prosecution of Brooks for allegedly paying a few paltry sums to a few hundred police officers for juicy stories about celebrities is clearly a prosecution that is politically motivated and I'm sure she will be cleared of any wrongdoing.

Along with her equally honest co-defendant Andy Coulson, Clarence Mitchell's former boss in David Cameron's office, 2009-2011.

Exactly Tony. And because Andy Redwood is under no illusions as to the public's distaste for any remaining pockets of corruption at Scotland Yard he will make it his business to adhere to the highest possible investigatory standards. He will go the extra mile to make that demonstrable to a sceptical public I am absolutely certain. He is aware of the climate of opinion with regard to the MET and he knows the onus is upon him to justify the unprecedented budget afforded him for his expertise and that of his extensive team. All of his team will be similarly mindful that trust in the MET can and must be restored. They, too,will  feel the weight and responsibility invested in them, I am sure.

 A pledge has been made that signifies that this investigation will be prosecuted without fear or favour; that it will be founded upon a voiceless victim. Here is a reminder of that sombre pledge DCI Andy Redwood has given us all on behalf of the Metropolitan Police:

                                                                   "We are fighting for Madeleine McCann....."

They are fighting for Maddie, but how long before the knockout blow and who will it land on?

We have absolutely no idea and I remember back in the Summer hearing Mr. Redwood say it could take at least another two years before they even get close (not exact wording).

Another two years - so IMO will be way over 10 million spent.

Mirage wrote:Exactly Tony. And because Andy Redwood is under no illusions as to the public's distaste for any remaining pockets of corruption at Scotland Yard he will make it his business to adhere to the highest possible investigatory standards. He will go the extra mile to make that demonstrable to a sceptical public I am absolutely certain. He is aware of the climate of opinion with regard to the MET and he knows the onus is upon him to justify the unprecedented budget afforded him for his expertise and that of his extensive team.

Did you mean, expensive?

Mirage wrote:Exactly Tony. And because Andy Redwood is under no illusions as to the public's distaste for any remaining pockets of corruption at Scotland Yard he will make it his business to adhere to the highest possible investigatory standards. He will go the extra mile to make that demonstrable to a sceptical public I am absolutely certain. He is aware of the climate of opinion with regard to the MET and he knows the onus is upon him to justify the unprecedented budget afforded him for his expertise and that of his extensive team. All of his team will be similarly mindful that trust in the MET can and must be restored. They, too,will  feel the weight and responsibility invested in them, I am sure.

 A pledge has been made that signifies that this investigation will be prosecuted without fear or favour; that it will be founded upon a voiceless victim. Here is a reminder of that sombre pledge DCI Andy Redwood has given us all on behalf of the Metropolitan Police:

                                                                   "We are fighting for Madeleine McCann....."

Yes he might have said this but he didn't say who he has his eyes on and I can bet my bottom dollar it is NOT the mccanns and tapas mates

I merely hold him to account for words he has spoken for public consumption and therefore to be taken on that basis. He conveys the message that he is fighting for Madeleine McCann and against the current backdrop of corruption at the MET I can only assume he has a vested interest in ensuring that there is not a scintilla of disambiguation in his words of intent. That is all.

Re. the expense of all of this.    Would be good if we could be told whether a lie detector request has been made by SY/PJ for them ALL to do a polygraph test.   It could be the case that millions more of public funds need not be spent.  My opinion of course because it is possible new info. could come to light.

And if Mssrs Redwood and team do not heed my reminder then that is their affair.

They will be more receptive, perhaps, on hearing breaking news of the Metropolitan police officers who have just pleaded guilty to lying in the Plebgate case. A timely reminder that the times they are a-changing. When all said and done, we, the public number millions. Best please the majority is the sensible route.

Mirage wrote:I merely hold him to account for words he has spoken for public consumption and therefore to be taken on that basis. He conveys the message that he is fighting for Madeleine McCann and against the current backdrop of corruption at the MET I can only assume he has a vested interest in ensuring that there is not a scintilla of disambiguation in his words of intent. That is all.

Yes, no disambiguation - and no dissembling either.

His statements are all on the public record. We are advised that the police always tell us the truth. No doubt Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe admitting yesterday that 'the Met has fidlded the crime figures for years' is a tiny exception to the general rule that the public is blessed with honest police officers who never lie.

He gave the impression on Crimewatch (14 October) that 'the Irish family' drew up the 2 e-fits. But we know for certain that they did not.

Maybe there was no disambiguation or dissembling.

Maybe he was just a bit clumsy in the words he used.

Nothing deliberate


++++++++


ETA:  We have been told for years that lying, corrupt police officers are 'a few bad apples in the barrel'. Now the Independent tells us that these apples are 'rotten to the core'.

If this were Tesco, we'd be demanding a whole new set of apples - and money back on the old, rotten ones

plebgate wrote:Re. the expense of all of this.    Would be good if we could be told whether a lie detector request has been made by SY/PJ for them ALL to do a polygraph test.   It could be the case that millions more of public funds need not be spent.  My opinion of course because it is possible new info. could come to light.

Only - and I mean only Plebgate, as long as that Dr Leal is not in charge of the process!

Mirage wrote:And if Mssrs Redwood and team do not heed my reminder then that is their affair.

They will be more receptive, perhaps, on hearing breaking news of the Metropolitan police officers who have just pleaded guilty to lying in the Plebgate case. A timely reminder that the times they are a-changing. When all said and done, we, the public number millions. Best please the majority is the sensible route.

Lying???

Who'd have thought it?

I hope our distinguished forum member 'plebgate' will soon give us her 'take' on this remarkable development...

Tony Bennett wrote:

Mirage wrote:I merely hold him to account for words he has spoken for public consumption and therefore to be taken on that basis. He conveys the message that he is fighting for Madeleine McCann and against the current backdrop of corruption at the MET I can only assume he has a vested interest in ensuring that there is not a scintilla of disambiguation in his words of intent. That is all.

Yes, no disambiguation - and no dissembling either.

His statements are all on the public record. We are advised that the police always tell us the truth. No doubt Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe admitting yesterday that 'the Met has fidlded the crime figures for years' is a tiny exception to the general rule that the public is blessed with honest police officers who never lie.

He gave the impression on Crimewatch (14 October) that 'the Irish family' drew up the 2 e-fits. But we know for certain that they did not.

Maybe there was no disambiguation or dissembling.

Maybe he was just a bit clumsy in the words he used.

Nothing deliberate

And what better time for him to improve his communication skills than today. The impetus of the Plebgate officers pleading guilty to something beginning with c and ending in jail could be the equivalent of two extra booster rockets being applied to AR's  trajectory.

Mirage wrote:

plebgate wrote:Re. the expense of all of this.    Would be good if we could be told whether a lie detector request has been made by SY/PJ for them ALL to do a polygraph test.   It could be the case that millions more of public funds need not be spent.  My opinion of course because it is possible new info. could come to light.

Only - and I mean only Plebgate, as long as that Dr Leal is not in charge of the process!

 

Mirage wrote:And if Mssrs Redwood and team do not heed my reminder then that is their affair.

They will be more receptive, perhaps, on hearing breaking news of the Metropolitan police officers who have just pleaded guilty to lying in the Plebgate case. A timely reminder that the times they are a-changing. When all said and done, we, the public number millions. Best please the majority is the sensible route.

I guess you made that post with the assumption that Redwood would see it; I truly hope you are correct and that he heeds every word.

With regard to the breaking news, I have this friend - I wouldn't call him a nutter, exactly, but he has a lot of alternative views. He told me a long time ago that for some unspecified cosmic reason 2013 would be a watershed year for humanity and that after that truth and morality would prevail, and the good would flourish. I reckoned that thought might give you heart.

Tony Bennett wrote:

Mirage wrote:And if Mssrs Redwood and team do not heed my reminder then that is their affair.

They will be more receptive, perhaps, on hearing breaking news of the Metropolitan police officers who have just pleaded guilty to lying in the Plebgate case. A timely reminder that the times they are a-changing. When all said and done, we, the public number millions. Best please the majority is the sensible route.

Lying???

Who'd have thought it?

I hope our distinguished forum member 'plebgate' will soon give us her 'take' on this remarkable development...

You are naughty Tony but it would have saved a lot of trouble for the Minister had he insisted that Jeremy Kyle be called in from the outset.   

Mirage wrote:

And what better time for [Redwood] to improve his communication skills than today.

Unfair, Mirage. He told us about a year or more into his investigation that after he and his team of 38.5 officers had spent their first £3 million or so: "We have evidence that Madeleine may be alive or, maybe, sadly, dead".

It would surely be hard to find, anywhere else, such a concise summary of the work of a thorough police investigation?

Tony Bennett wrote:
ETA:  We have been told for years that lying, corrupt police officers are 'a few bad apples in the barrel'. Now the Independent tells us that these apples are 'rotten to the core'.

If this were Tesco, we'd be demanding a whole new set of apples - and money back on the old, rotten ones

I'm eating a Lidl apple right now and mighty fine it is.

Perhaps we should hand over the running of SY to ze Germans?

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
With regard to the breaking news, I have this friend - I wouldn't call him a nutter, exactly, but he has a lot of alternative views. He told me a long time ago that for some unspecified cosmic reason 2013 would be a watershed year for humanity and that after that truth and morality would prevail, and the good would flourish. I reckoned that thought might give you heart.

Maybe I'm a little cynical, but I don't feel that truth or morality will ever prevail if it's the human race we're talking about.

It only takes one to fold, and the entire edifice of lies and corruption will fall.
This officer has pleaded Guilty to Misconduct in Public Office = LYING
The spin off for the other officers is now catastrophic.
How can the libel case against Mitchell now go ahead.
What about the three federation officers who lied to the Parliamentary Select Committee,
what about . .
What about . . .


( All it will take in Madeleine's case is for ONE person to tell the truth, or even just a little bit of the truth; just a version would be sufficient.)

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

Tony Bennett wrote:
ETA:  We have been told for years that lying, corrupt police officers are 'a few bad apples in the barrel'. Now the Independent tells us that these apples are 'rotten to the core'.

If this were Tesco, we'd be demanding a whole new set of apples - and money back on the old, rotten ones

I'm eating a Lidl apple right now and mighty fine it is.

Perhaps we should hand over the running of SY to ze Germans?

A Lidl apple!! One of your funf a day, I assume. You should feel a Panzer movement coming on very soon. 

Mirage wrote:

A Lidl apple!! One of your funf a day, I assume. You should feel a Panzer movement coming on very soon. 

You should see the contents of our house. It's like cult of Lidl in here....

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

Mirage wrote:

A Lidl apple!! One of your funf a day, I assume. You should feel a Panzer movement coming on very soon. 

You should see the contents of our house. It's like cult of Lidl in here....

Is a Lidl apple sweeter than a Bigl apple ?  

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

Tony Bennett wrote:
ETA:  We have been told for years that lying, corrupt police officers are 'a few bad apples in the barrel'. Now the Independent tells us that these apples are 'rotten to the core'.

If this were Tesco, we'd be demanding a whole new set of apples - and money back on the old, rotten ones

I'm eating a Lidl apple right now and mighty fine it is.

Perhaps we should hand over the running of SY to ze Germans?

What a crying shame we cannot bring Sir Robert Mark back to life - he died 3 years ago. Since then, we have had a procession of duffers running the Met only interested in the public image of themselves and their rapidly declining police force - Sir Ian Blair, Sir Paul Stephenson, Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - minnows compared with Mark:

Guardian obituary:

When Robert Mark, who has died aged 93, arrived at the Metropolitan [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] in 1967 as an assistant commissioner, fresh from the Leicester force, he felt, he said later, "like the representative of a leper colony attending the annual garden party of a colonial governor". His achievement, by the time he left as commissioner in 1977, was to make corrupt officers within the Met – and there were literally hundreds of them – feel like outsiders themselves.

His task was vast. At the time of his arrival, corruption within the detective branch of the force was endemic and cynical. Detectives had financial arrangements with bank robbers, drug dealers and pornographers, and Mark was not being entirely frivolous when he described his ambition as to "arrest more criminals than we employ".

It was no easy task, and entrenched interests within Scotland Yard at the time made every effort to block his path. But he went after those interests ruthlessly, leading to the early departure of 478 officers, a rate six times higher than under his predecessor. Some 50 appeared in court, and the wholesale, institutionalised corruption of the 1960s and 70s within the CID was ended – largely the result of work by the man once nicknamed the Lone Ranger of Leicester.

Mark was born in Chorlton-cum-Hardy, Manchester, the youngest of five children of a Yorkshire couple who had "emigrated". His father was a mantle manufacturer with high academic hopes for his children, and Robert went to William Hulme grammar school, where he was head prefect and captain of the rugby team. After working briefly for a carpet manufacturer, he was drawn to a career in the police, believing that his fitness, height, skill at games and reasonable intelligence would serve him well. His parents were horrified, his father suggesting that it was only one step better than going to prison.

Mark joined the Manchester force, and by 1940 was in the Special Branch, where he was involved in an episode that stayed with him throughout his career. He was required to serve an internment order on an Italian waiter who had lived in Manchester for 30 years. It was clear to Mark that the waiter was harmless, and he reported the fact. But the waiter was nonetheless deported as an "enemy alien" and perished on a transport ship that was torpedoed by a U-boat. "That experience taught me there was neglect, carelessness and worse in the police system," he wrote later. "It was a lesson I never forgot."

In 1942 he was released from his police duties to join the Royal Armoured Corps and trained at Sandhurst before joining Phantom, the communications regiment. He took part in the Normandy landings and was part of the allied advance, another experience that he never forgot. He also encountered the mass graves left in the wake of the German army. At the end of the second world war he was promoted to staff captain, serving with the military government in occupied Germany until 1947, a period of his life he regarded as "fairly pointless".

Mark then returned to Manchester and Special Branch, gradually moving up the ranks before he decided to seek a more senior post in a different force. He took over as chief constable of Leicester on 1 January 1957, and during the next 10 years won a reputation as a bright, articulate, reforming chief.
In 1966 he was assessor to Lord Mountbatten during his inquiry into prison security – but he harboured a sneaking regard for Ronnie Biggs, the great train robber who escaped from Wandsworth jail in 1965, saying that his flight "added a rare and welcome touch of humour to the history of crime".

He was eventually approached by the then home secretary, Roy Jenkins, who had been impressed by what he had heard of Mark, and was asked to come to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] as assistant commissioner. He accepted the post with some misgivings and was greeted with a glacial welcome at the Yard, which had no great love for squeaky-clean outsiders. He was promoted first to deputy and then to the commissioner's post on 17 April 1972.

"I had served in provincial forces for 30 years, and though I had known wrongdoing, I had never experienced institutionalised wrongdoing, blindness, arrogance and prejudice on anything like the scale accepted as routine in the Met," he recalled of his arrival. However, he had the backing of the Home Office, a large proportion of the uniformed branch and enough senior officers to ensure there was no overt rebellion against the activities of the anti-corruption branch. Those against whom there was insufficient evidence for a charge were offered the chance to leave early, and many did, to the applause of the honest majority. The boil was lanced. Mark was knighted in 1973.

There were other notable moments during his time at the Met, including the Balcombe Street and Spaghetti House sieges of 1975 – the former involving IRA terrorists and the latter involving armed robbers – both of which were brought to successful conclusions, and there were other successes against the IRA.

While Mark became something of a hero to liberals for his attack on corruption, he was far from being a part of the liberal establishment himself. He was disdainful of the National Council for Civil Liberties (now Liberty), the BBC, the Guardian and Time Out when they focused attention on such subjects as police corruption or racism.

Mark made known his disapproval of leftwing politicians who he felt were prone to point-scoring at the expense of the police, and he directed his fire at defence lawyers whom he saw as perverting the course of justice, attacking them most memorably in the 1973 Dimbleby lecture on BBC television. He believed that too often the searchlight was focused unjustly on the police while many other parts of the criminal justice system escaped censure. He was, for all his critical remarks about his fellow officers, proud of the service and he enjoyed the loyalty of the new breed of officers who joined at around the time of his final promotion.

Before he retired in 1977, Mark tried to improve relations between the press and the police, changing the force policy – on paper at least – from "tell them only what you must" to "withhold only what you must". His experience of policing had converted him to openness, which he saw as a much better way of improving the image of the police than glossy public relations exercises. He abhorred jargon and police-speak.

His stature was further emphasised by the man who replaced him, Sir David McNee, who never quite seemed to master the job. Mark remains probably the most accomplished postwar commissioner.

In retirement, he became a director of Phoenix Assurance and Control Risks, a private security consultancy. More publicly, he made the odd career move of advertising Goodyear tyres on television. His autobiography, In the Office of Constable, was published in 1978, a year after his only other publication, Policing a Perplexed Society. They remain standard texts for anyone interested in police work.

Honorary degrees from Liverpool, Leicester, Loughborough and Manchester univerities followed, and he was a visiting fellow at Nuffield College, Oxford, from 1970 to 1978. He remained a familar figure at police rugby matches at Imber Court, East Molesey, in south London, where he liked to keep up with gossip.

His wife, Kathleen, whom he married in 1941, died in 1997. He is survived by a daughter, Christina, and a son, Christopher.

• Robert Mark, police officer, born 13 March 1917; died 30 September 2010

PeterMac wrote:It only takes one to fold, and the entire edifice of lies and corruption will fall.
This officer has pleaded Guilty to Misconduct in Public Office = LYING
The spin off for the other officers is now catastrophic.
How can the libel case against Mitchell now go ahead.
What about the three federation officers who lied to the Parliamentary Select Committee,
what about . .
What about . . .


( All it will take in Madeleine's case is for ONE person to tell the truth, or even just a little bit of the truth; just a version would be sufficient.)

My abiding hope PM, my abiding hope. Some little Cox's Pippin, British through and through, who isn't afraid to turn on the rotten lot he's squashed in the barrel with.

A very interesting read on Sir Robert Mark, Tony. I remember the Balcombe street seige amongst other snippets.

 Looking at his achievements leaves you, head in hands. I noticed for example, that while the deputy commissioner struggled to read a statement outside the Duggan court this week while facing a (predictably) very ugly crowd, Hogan-Howe was busy in the office drafting statements about how the police must look more like, and feel more like, Londoners. What a load of tripe.

Mirage wrote:A very interesting read on Sir Robert Mark, Tony. I remember the Balcombe street seige amongst other snippets.

 Looking at his achievements leaves you, head in hands. I noticed for example, that while the deputy commissioner struggled to read a statement outside the Duggan court this week while facing a (predictably) very ugly crowd, Hogan-Howe was busy in the office drafting statements about how the police must look more like, and feel more like, Londoners. What a load of tripe.

Yes, Muslim police officers patrolling the streets of Tower Hamlets in niqabs and burkas. That'll really make a difference!

I watched Hogan-Howe's interview on the C4 news the other night.  These are just my own instinctual feelings, but I came away with a great sense of dislike and distrust.

I have remained optimistic that SY are doing the right thing, but I have to say that this week my faith in them has come crashing down.

On a personal note, I've known a few police officers, not least of whom is my own father, now retired.  He said that his job was to "lie for a living", that the policing in 'Life on Mars' was pretty accurate, and that these days all the police are interested in is money and public relations, actual justice coming in a very sad last place.  I had an acquaintance (not a friend) who became a police office to "beat up" (his words) a particular ethnic minority.  On the other hand, I knew one particular Chief Inspector for years who was one of the finest, most honourable people I've known.  And from PeterMac's work on this forum, I'm certain that he has much in common with him.

The police are a mixed bag, for certain.

Following on from the conversation about police officers making public statements that can come back to haunt them, the following re Hogan-Howe and plebgate:

Lord Macdonald criticised Sir Bernard for saying he believed his officers had told the truth before the investigation began. The peer said the remark was “plain foolish” and “a remarkable act of fairground clairvoyance”. (does he mean spin?)
----------------------
Let us sincerely hope that no other pre-investigation bias ever rears its ugly head ever ever again at Scotland Yard.
 Ever.

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
The police are a mixed bag, for certain.

Well, quite. The Police are only a microcosm of society, and just look at the state of society. There's just such a lack of probity among the general populace.

As an aside, I got offered a job recently. I'm not really qualified for it, but the chap said that they had received over five hundred applications and mine was the only one that was written in anything like a coherent fashion. This was for a quasi-legal type position!

With regard to the Police, if you're picking form a pool of mediocrity then mediocrity is what you're going to get. It's as simple as that. The fact that corruption is utterly endemic in all areas of public life doesn't help matters, of course.