SMITHMAN 2 - What can account for the 17 remarkable similarities between Tannerman and Smithman?

by **Tony Bennett** 25.10.13 13:16

The descriptions of a mystery man claimed to have been seen by Jane Tanner and by members of the Smith family are remarkably similar.

A senior Metropolitan Police Officer, D.C.I. Andy Redwood, heading up a 3-year, £6 milion Scotland Yard investigation, has now told the nation, on the record, and in front of an audience of 6.7 million people on the BBC, that Tannerman was a crecheman carrying his infant home from the night crèche. Clearly as a nation of people who have faith in what has been described as ‘the worlds’ finest police force', we must believe him. There can be no room for doubt.

However, let us return to the similarities between the original descriptions given by Jane Tanner and the Smiths, both in May 2007. These were:

1. An unaccompanied male
2. Carrying a child and having no push-chair
3. The child was blonde
4. The child was a girl
5. The child was barefoot
6. The child was wearing light-coloured/pink pyjamas
7. She looked about four years old
8. She was being held on the man’s left side
9. She didn’t have a blanket or other covering
10. The men did not look like tourists
11. They were wearing a dark jacket
12. They were wearing light-coloured trousers
13. They were both about 1.75m to 1.8m tall (5’ 9” – 5’ 10”)
14. They were both aged 35-40
15. They were of average build
16. They were spotted within 600 yards of each other
17. In neither case could the man’s face be seen.

What could account for these remarkable 17 similarities – now that Redwood has told us the truth about Tannerman/crecheman?

1. Crecheman and Smithman are one and the same - he had to walk a very long way back home from the crèche.

OR

2. There were two virtually identical men with virtually identical clothes each taking their virtually identical children somewhere – just one of those amazing coincidences.

OR

3. Both Jane Tanner and Martin Smith were working to a script and neither actually saw anyone.

OR

4. Some other reason.

by Sockpuppet 25.10.13 13:22

Can you please add the option:

'Jane Tanner engineered her sighting to match the appearance of the man witnessed by the Smith family'.

by pennylane 25.10.13 13:27

Sockpuppet wrote:Can you please add the option:

'Jane Tanner engineered her sighting to match the appearance of the man witnessed by the Smith family'.

I assume that would come under No. 4 "Other"

by tiny 25.10.13 13:28

Sockpuppet wrote:Can you please add the option:

'Jane Tanner engineered her sighting to match the appearance of the man witnessed by the Smith family'.

that's what I think jane did,because Gerry had been seen so good old jane had to come up with this

by Hongkong Phooey 25.10.13 13:28

Sockpuppet wrote:Can you please add the option:

'Jane Tanner engineered her sighting to match the appearance of the man witnessed by the Smith family'.

That doesn't seem an unreasonable option

by pennylane 25.10.13 13:29

tiny wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:Can you please add the option:

'Jane Tanner engineered her sighting to match the appearance of the man witnessed by the Smith family'.
that's what I think jane did,because Gerry had been seen so good old jane had to come up with this

That is what Goncalo Amaral said Jane Tanner did!

by nomendelta 25.10.13 13:30

Not to mention the fact that, even though this new identity for Bundleman opens up the timeline for an abduction more than the orginal story (not that the Portuguese police actually believed in Bundleman so far as I understand) we have this quite remarkable coincidence that just around the time that Maddie was abducted (if that indeed is what happened) one of her parents friends happened to see a man who was NOT her abductor carrying a similar girl wearing similar clothes to Maddie mere moments away from where Maddie was allegedly abducted from.

It's quite a coincidence on it's own but when you add in the similarities to the Smith sighting it really does beggar belief.

by Sockpuppet 25.10.13 13:30

Hongkong Phooey wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:Can you please add the option:

'Jane Tanner engineered her sighting to match the appearance of the man witnessed by the Smith family'.
That doesn't seem an unreasonable option

Options 1 to 3 all preclude Smith-man being Gerry McCann, which was by far the leading result in the previous poll.

by tiny 25.10.13 13:31

pennylane wrote:
tiny wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:Can you please add the option:

'Jane Tanner engineered her sighting to match the appearance of the man witnessed by the Smith family'.
that's what I think jane did,because Gerry had been seen so good old jane had to come up with this
That is what Goncalo Amaral said Jane Tanner did!

well I didn't know that.its good to know that there are at least 2 on the right track:biggrin:

by Guest 25.10.13 13:36

8. She was being held on the man’s left side

Both gave different accounts re this. Tanners was lying in his arms on front of his chest. Smith said she was being carried over the shoulder.

Did Smith say the girl was barefoot?

by **Tony Bennett** 25.10.13 13:42

Sockpuppet wrote:Can you please add the option:

'Jane Tanner engineered her sighting to match the appearance of the man witnessed by the Smith family'.

Sockpuppet, NO.

That is impossible, like most of your ideas.

Tanner told the rest of the Tapas group about her sighting before one of the group ripped the cover off Madeleine's Activity Sticker book to write down two (different) timelines before the PJ arrived.

How the heck would she know about the Smith sighting already?

Doh!

by Mirage 25.10.13 13:48

The main difficulty I have with both Crecheman and Smithman sightings is as follows:-

a) At the time of reporting his sighting - some four months after the event - Mr Smith was able to give an accurate time, courtesy of his bar bill receipt showing 9.55pm, which he must have retained for some reason.

and....

b) Crecheman waits 6yrs 5mths before coming forward to identify the world-wide e-fit of himself. He is even able to produce the pyjamas his daughter had on that night, if I have understood things correctly - (Some propositions being so bizarre I wonder if I've dreamt them).

by Sockpuppet 25.10.13 13:48

Tony Bennett wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:Can you please add the option:

'Jane Tanner engineered her sighting to match the appearance of the man witnessed by the Smith family'.
Sockpuppet, NO.

That is impossible, like most of your ideas.

Tanner told the rest of the Tapas group about her sighting before one of the group ripped the cover off Madeleine's Activity Sticker book to write down two (different) timelines before the PJ arrived.

How the heck would she know about the Smith sighting already?

Doh!

But others feel that it is not impossible. You want a fair poll, surely?

by **Tony Bennett** 25.10.13 13:52

Hongkong Phooey wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:Can you please add the option:

'Jane Tanner engineered her sighting to match the appearance of the man witnessed by the Smith family'.
That doesn't seem an unreasonable option

Tell me exactly how Jane Tanner might have 'engineered' her sighting, and how she would have known about the Smith sighting before speaking to the Tapas group so they could hurriedly write down their timelines before the police arrived, and then I will certainly consider adding it as an option.

by **Tony Bennett** 25.10.13 13:53

Sockpuppet wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:Can you please add the option:

'Jane Tanner engineered her sighting to match the appearance of the man witnessed by the Smith family'.
Sockpuppet, NO.

That is impossible, like most of your ideas.

Tanner told the rest of the Tapas group about her sighting before one of the group ripped the cover off Madeleine's Activity Sticker book to write down two (different) timelines before the PJ arrived.

How the heck would she know about the Smith sighting already?

Doh!
But others feel that it is not impossible. You want a fair poll, surely?

Yes, definitely, a fair poll, yes, yes, yes.

But I can't add an option that is DEFINITELY IMPOSSIBLE.

Can I?

by Guest 25.10.13 13:54

Tony Bennett wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:Can you please add the option:

'Jane Tanner engineered her sighting to match the appearance of the man witnessed by the Smith family'.
Sockpuppet, NO.

That is impossible, like most of your ideas.

Tanner told the rest of the Tapas group about her sighting before one of the group ripped the cover off Madeleine's Activity Sticker book to write down two (different) timelines before the PJ arrived.

How the heck would she know about the Smith sighting already?

Doh!

hypothetical scenario, if a person was spotted carrying someone, knew he had been seen, he would then panic, and tell someone else to say something similar to either confuse or make it credible?? Just saying how it could be possible, not that it did happen.

by Sockpuppet 25.10.13 13:54

Tony Bennett wrote:
Hongkong Phooey wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:Can you please add the option:

'Jane Tanner engineered her sighting to match the appearance of the man witnessed by the Smith family'.
That doesn't seem an unreasonable option
Tell me exactly how Jane Tanner might have 'engineered' her sighting, and how she would have known about the Smith sighting before speaking to the Tapas group so they could hurriedly write down their timelines before the police arrived, and then I will certainly consider adding it as an option.

Option 4 it is then.

by **Tony Bennett** 25.10.13 13:56

candyfloss wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:Can you please add the option:

'Jane Tanner engineered her sighting to match the appearance of the man witnessed by the Smith family'.
Sockpuppet, NO.

That is impossible, like most of your ideas.

Tanner told the rest of the Tapas group about her sighting before one of the group ripped the cover off Madeleine's Activity Sticker book to write down two (different) timelines before the PJ arrived.

How the heck would she know about the Smith sighting already?

Doh!
hypothetical scenario, if a person was spotted carrying someone, knew he had been seen, he would then panic, and tell someone else to say something similar to either confuse or make it credible?? Just saying how it could be possible, not that it did happen.

Sounds unbelievably convoluted and complex, indeed, unbelievable.

But I think I have very fairly covered that unlikely possibility with the option:

'Some other reason (what')?

by Sockpuppet 25.10.13 13:58

The Smith sighting was at 9.55pm - 10.00pm.

The first GNR patrol car arrived at 11.00pm - 11.05pm.

That's at least an hour in which to discuss the Smith sighting and write timelines.

How is this impossible?

by **Tony Bennett** 25.10.13 14:03

pennylane wrote:
tiny wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:Can you please add the option:

'Jane Tanner engineered her sighting to match the appearance of the man witnessed by the Smith family'.
that's what I think jane did,because Gerry had been seen so good old jane had to come up with this
That is what Goncalo Amaral said Jane Tanner did!

pennylane, I think Goncalo Amaral says firmly that Jane Tanner invented 'Tannerman' and he didn't find her ever-changing stories remotely credible.

Now of course, one of Britain's finest detectives has trumped Amaral and said, in effect: 'Aha, Amaral, through my brilliant investigations and after 6.5 years, I HAVE FOUND THE MAN THAT TANNER SAW!'

However, pennylane, I can never recall that Amaral said that Jane Tanner 'engineered' her statement so as to accord with Martin Smith's sighting.

Do you have a reference?

Unless we are into telepathy?

by Nereid 25.10.13 14:03

candyfloss wrote: 8. She was being held on the man’s left side

Both gave different accounts re this. Tanners was lying in his arms on front of his chest. Smith said she was being carried over the shoulder.

Did Smith say the girl was barefoot?

This was said about the bare feet:

Martin: “He cannot confirm whether she was barefoot but in his group, they spoke about the child having no cover on her feet.”

Aoife: “did not remember seeing any shoes, not remembering if the child had any or not.”

Peter: “He cannot affirm if she was barefoot.”

A bit inconclusive imo.

by pennylane 25.10.13 14:04

tiny wrote:
pennylane wrote:
tiny wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:Can you please add the option:

'Jane Tanner engineered her sighting to match the appearance of the man witnessed by the Smith family'.
that's what I think jane did,because Gerry had been seen so good old jane had to come up with this
That is what Goncalo Amaral said Jane Tanner did!
well I didn't know that.its good to know that there are at least 2 on the right track

Goncalo Amaral was interviewed on a TV talk show, and he spoke of Jane Tanner's dodgy dual sighting of Gerry and Bundleman, and what he felt was the reason the "swarthy" Bundleman's attire matched Gerry's.

by thetruthbeknown 25.10.13 14:04

My thoughts (as on other smithman thread)...The smiths only came forward because Murat had been implicated (its not unusual for Irish communities to not wanrt to get involved with police if not necessary, and I dont think they thought their sighting as significant befroehand)..Im still 'out' on whether Smithman was genuine, but im falling on the side that it was, but was not a 'frame' for GM, but rather a 'clearing' of Murat, however smith then saw 'footage' of Gerry (whom he didnt know at that time) And recognised certain actions, such as manner of carrying child etc. Tannerman, I do, and always have believed to be a fabrication, or 'unimportant'...it was not seen as significant and was only 'pushed' into real being by certain people :/ ...all my own and personal opinion of course smilie

by **Tony Bennett** 25.10.13 14:06

Sockpuppet wrote:The Smith sighting was at 9.55pm - 10.00pm.

The first GNR patrol car arrived at 11.00pm - 11.05pm.

That's at least an hour in which to discuss the Smith sighting and write timelines.

How is this impossible?

Intriguing.

Please explain how it is physically possible for Martin Smith to communicate his sighting to Jane Tanner before 11.00pmon 3 May 2007.

(Especially given that he waited several days and was back home in Drogheda before picking up the 'phone and dialling Portimao 1212).

Where is this likely to have happened?

by cass7 25.10.13 14:07

thetruthbeknown wrote:My thoughts (as on other smithman thread)...The smiths only came forward because Murat had been implicated (its not unusual for Irish communities to not wanrt to get involved with police if not necessary, and I dont think they thought their sighting as significant befroehand)..Im still 'out' on whether Smithman was genuine, but im falling on the side that it was, but was not a 'frame' for GM, but rather a 'clearing' of Murat, however smith then saw 'footage' of Gerry (whom he didnt know at that time) And recognised certain actions, such as manner of carrying child etc. Tannerman, I do, and always have believed to be a fabrication, or 'unimportant'...it was not seen as significant and was only 'pushed' into real being by certain people :/ ...all my own and personal opinion of course :smilie:my op too

by cass7 25.10.13 14:07

cocked the quote up - my up too

by **Tony Bennett** 25.10.13 14:08

pennylane wrote:
tiny wrote:
pennylane wrote:
tiny wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:Can you please add the option:

'Jane Tanner engineered her sighting to match the appearance of the man witnessed by the Smith family'.
that's what I think jane did,because Gerry had been seen so good old jane had to come up with this
That is what Goncalo Amaral said Jane Tanner did!
well I didn't know that.its good to know that there are at least 2 on the right track
Goncalo Amaral was interviewed on a TV talk show, and he spoke of Jane Tanner's dodgy dual sighting of Gerry and Bundleman, and what he felt was the reason the "swarthy" Bundleman's attire matched Gerry's.

I wasn't aware of that (bolded bit).

Do you have a link, please, pennylane?

by Guest 25.10.13 14:10

Tony Bennett wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:The Smith sighting was at 9.55pm - 10.00pm.

The first GNR patrol car arrived at 11.00pm - 11.05pm.

That's at least an hour in which to discuss the Smith sighting and write timelines.

How is this impossible?
Intriguing.

Please explain how it is physically possible for Martin Smith to communicate his sighting to Jane Tanner before 11.00pmon 3 May 2007.

(Especially given that he waited several days and was back home in Drogheda before picking up the 'phone and dialling Portimao 1212).

Where is this likely to have happened?

Tony, he wouldn't need to communicate anything...........

by Sockpuppet 25.10.13 14:10

Tony Bennett wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:The Smith sighting was at 9.55pm - 10.00pm.

The first GNR patrol car arrived at 11.00pm - 11.05pm.

That's at least an hour in which to discuss the Smith sighting and write timelines.

How is this impossible?
Intriguing.

Please explain how it is physically possible for Martin Smith to communicate his sighting to Jane Tanner before 11.00pmon 3 May 2007.

(Especially given that he waited several days and was back home in Drogheda before picking up the 'phone and dialling Portimao 1212).

Where is this likely to have happened?

Who said that Martin Smith communicated with Jane Tanner? I haven't. You're putting words in my mouth.

The person that Martin Smith and family saw POSSIBLY returned to apartment 5A and told Jane Tanner.

That is physically POSSIBLE, even if the person walked stupidly slowly all the way.

I believe we have covered possibility, haven't we?

by pennylane 25.10.13 14:14

Tony Bennett wrote:
pennylane wrote:
tiny wrote:
pennylane wrote:
tiny wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:Can you please add the option:

'Jane Tanner engineered her sighting to match the appearance of the man witnessed by the Smith family'.
that's what I think jane did,because Gerry had been seen so good old jane had to come up with this
That is what Goncalo Amaral said Jane Tanner did!
well I didn't know that.its good to know that there are at least 2 on the right track
Goncalo Amaral was interviewed on a TV talk show, and he spoke of Jane Tanner's dodgy dual sighting of Gerry and Bundleman, and what he felt was the reason the "swarthy" Bundleman's attire matched Gerry's.
I wasn't aware of that (bolded bit).

Do you have a link, please, pennylane?

Hi Tony, I haven't seen it for ages, but I will look for it. It's a female interviewer, and Amaral was interviewed alongside another man, that was also talking about the McCann shenanigans. By the way, the "swarthy" bit is Jane's description, not Amaral's.... I realise that was confusing.

If anyone else can help track it down I'd appreciate it.