Re: ALISON SAUNDERS - Senior CPS lawyer who went to Portugal in April - and will become the next Director of Public Prosecutions. Her track record examined.

by plebgate 16.08.13 6:27

How has Tony made a fool of himself Kevin (sorry) Davel?

by **Tony Bennett** 16.08.13 6:43

It was Alison Saunders in her role as Head of London CPS, working closely with the Met Police, who stopped the trial of three men accused of murdering Daniel Morgan in 1987, in one of the longest-running police corruption cases ever.

One of the accused, Jonathan Rees, was very closely connected to Andy Coulson, former editor of the News of the World, and now facing charges of (I think) 'phone hacking and maybe perverting the couyrse of justice as well.

Andy Coulson was of course David Cameron's ill-fated choice as his Director of Communications 2009-2011, and for three months in 2010, in the run-up to the General Election of 2010, Clarence Mitchell was his Deputy.

Rebekah Wade/Brooks was of course Andy Coulson's boss as Rupert Murdoch's CEO of News Intetnational. She also faces similar charges to Coulson and is accused of perverting the course of justice by deleting e-mails to prevent the police from knowing what went on. IIRC she told her PA to throw some hard drives into her dustbin. It was Rebekah Brooks who ordered our Prime Minister to set up Operation Grange, on the very day that the Sun began serialising the book: 'madeleine' by Dr Kate McCann, which was published the very same day.

Daniel Morgan's brother Alastair has a website about the network of high-level police corruption that has covered up his brother's death. See also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Morgan_(private_investigator)
https://twitter.com/AlastairMorgan
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Justice-for-Daniel-Morgan/237396839629908

Here is the CPS statement explaining why they were abandoning the prosecution of the alleged killers of Daniel Morgan:

+++++++++++++++

11/03/2011

CPS stops prosecution for 1987 killing of Daniel Morgan

We have decided that the prosecution of three men for the killing of private detective Daniel Morgan in 1987 cannot continue. Alison Saunders, Chief Crown Prosecutor for CPS London, said:

“Daniel Morgan was brutally killed 24 years ago. When we authorised charges against five men in April 2008 in relation to his death, we knew this would be a challenging prosecution because of both the passage of time and the amount of material, more than 750,000 pages, which needed to be considered for disclosure to the defence. Material that could assist the defence or undermine the prosecution must be disclosed.

“We were, until yesterday, satisfied that there was sufficient evidence for a realistic prospect of conviction. However, we must continuously review prosecutions to ensure that it is both fair and appropriate that they continue. We no longer believe this prosecution should continue.

“In December 2009, the police revealed a large amount of material to us that had not been considered for disclosure before. There was then considerable legal argument on whether it was possible for the case to proceed. Officers assured the court that there was no further unconsidered material. The judge was considering this matter when, on Friday 4 March 2011, the police revealed further material that had not been previously considered.

“We have decided that a prosecution cannot continue in these circumstances. We cannot be confident that the defence necessarily have all of the material that they are entitled to. This point would be raised by the defence during any trial, so we are no longer satisfied that there is sufficient evidence for a realistic prospect of conviction.

“This decision has been taken by the CPS with the advice of senior counsel. Daniel Morgan’s family was also consulted before this decision was taken. This has been a long and difficult ordeal for the family, and we have offered them our heartfelt sympathies.”

Background

• The CPS authorised charges against five men in April 2008 – a joint charge of murder against William (Jonathan) Rees, Glen Vian, Gary Vian and James Cook and a charge of perverting the course of justice against Sidney Fillery. However, the cases against Cook and Fillery had already been discontinued at an earlier stage in the proceedings.

• Three prosecution witnesses were subject to agreements under the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act (SOCPA) 2005.

• The case against Sidney Fillery relied entirely upon the evidence of a SOCPA witness that was ruled inadmissible by the court in February 2010. We then offered no evidence against him for perverting the course of justice.

• The case against James Cook relied upon the evidence of three witnesses, including the evidence of the SOCPA witness that the court had ruled inadmissible. We carefully considered whether it was possible to continue with the evidence of the other two witnesses, including another SOCPA witness, but decided it was not possible in November 2010.

• It emerged in December 2010 that material that could have assisted the defence concerning the prosecution’s remaining SOCPA witnesses and should have been disclosed by the police had been lost. Although we could no longer use this witness’s evidence against the remaining three defendants, we were satisfied the prosecution could continue.

"We are all in this together" - Brooks to Cameron

by davel 16.08.13 6:43

plebgate wrote:How has Tony made a fool of himself Kevin (sorry) Davel?

Holly Greig

by plebgate 16.08.13 6:51

in your opinion Davel.

How is Tony so completely wrong - are you not bothering to read his posts?

by Guest 17.08.13 20:49

DaveL, he certainly isn't the only one who doesn't believe the official Hollie (please note the spelling) Greig and McCanns stories.

Are you able to explain briefly why, despite all the glaring discrepancies in both of them, you do believe them?

by davel 18.08.13 19:08

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:DaveL, he certainly isn't the only one who doesn't believe the official Hollie (please note the spelling) Greig and McCanns stories.

Are you able to explain briefly why, despite all the glaring discrepancies in both of them, you do believe them?

it has been shown that the Hollie Greig case was founded on a load of lies told by her mother . I seem to remember that the story was featured on the madeleine Foundation website but all posts have now been removed

by Guest 18.08.13 21:20

There certainly is no doubt in my mind that the Hollie Greig story cannot be corroborated though as you will know from the separate topic there are still many people who believe it.

I remain unclear why you condemned Tony in particular for his comments both on that case and that of the McCanns when virtually everyone here has similar thoughts. If he is a fool, I shall gladly don my fool's cap too!

daft1

Yes I think that the Greig case was on the Madeleine Foundation website some years ago but that was before all the doubts became more widely known. Tony is no longer involved in the running of that site, of course.

by marconi 18.08.13 23:27

This whole saga is making me impatient. Everything is taking so long. Sometime ago we, believers members of our church, received a letter announcing the arrival of a new priest.
I don't often go to church but, believing that I needed some meditation in order to calm down, I decided to go to his Mass, yesterday.I was hoping for a good sermon.
His sermon was taking so long, that it made me think of Tony Bennet's posts and I left the church.
I'm sure the Pope will forgive me.

by Who?What?Where? 19.08.13 0:45

Mr Bennett in his original post, copied......"following my pupilage in a common law set"

What on Earth does that mean? I cannot remember ever having read that phrase before.

by sallypelt 19.08.13 1:04

Who?What?Where? wrote:Mr Bennett in his original post, copied......"following my pupilage in a common law set"

What on Earth does that mean? I cannot remember ever having read that phrase before.

I believe it means to shadow a barrister within a barrister's chamber, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong

by Who?What?Where? 19.08.13 1:15

Thank's sallypelt,
So, we have a law that applies to the common people, or pleb's, as some refer to us, and another law that applie's to the, supposed, elite?

That would definitely fit in, with what I am seeing here. The Mccann's seem to have been subjected to a different set of rule's, compared to the majority.

Do as I say, not as I do, seem's to be the constant mantra, of people who believe that they have some sort of power.

by **Tony Bennett** 19.08.13 7:08

marconi wrote:This whole saga is making me impatient. Everything is taking so long. Sometime ago we, believer members of our church, received a letter announcing the arrival of a new priest. I don't often go to church but, believing that I needed some meditation in order to calm down, I decided to go to his Mass, yesterday. I was hoping for a good sermon. His sermon was taking so long, that it made me think of Tony Bennet's posts and I left the church...

At least I am in good company.

After receiving sustained opposition in Macedonia on one of his missionary journeys, St. Paul stopped over at Troas, on the north-western coast of modern-day Turkey, where the sheer length of his sermon caused a young man, Eutychus, to be literally bored to death. However, all is well that ends well, and Paul raised him back to life, one of eight resurrections recorded in the Bible:

Acts 20 vv 7-12:

And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.
And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.
And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him.
When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.
And they brought the young man alive, and were not a little comforted.

By the way, if you went to a Mass, you were in the wrong church. As the great Protestant reformers said, the Mass is 'a blasphemous fable and a dangerous deceit'.

The Pope and his men claim that they have the magic power to transform the communion wafer into the actual body of Christ. A hoax, in other words.The Protestant reformers did as the believers at Troas did 2,000 years ago; they simply broke bread as an act of remembrance for their Saviour.

by marconi 19.08.13 8:12

Tony Bennett wrote:
marconi wrote:This whole saga is making me impatient. Everything is taking so long. Sometime ago we, believer members of our church, received a letter announcing the arrival of a new priest. I don't often go to church but, believing that I needed some meditation in order to calm down, I decided to go to his Mass, yesterday. I was hoping for a good sermon. His sermon was taking so long, that it made me think of Tony Bennet's posts and I left the church.

(Acts 20 vv 7-12:

(And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.)

It is obvious that Sint Paul was a Fidel Castro's ancestral. I must say I learn every day.

by davel 19.08.13 22:38

Tony Bennett wrote:
marconi wrote:This whole saga is making me impatient. Everything is taking so long. Sometime ago we, believer members of our church, received a letter announcing the arrival of a new priest. I don't often go to church but, believing that I needed some meditation in order to calm down, I decided to go to his Mass, yesterday. I was hoping for a good sermon. His sermon was taking so long, that it made me think of Tony Bennet's posts and I left the church...
At least I am in good company.

After receiving sustained opposition in Macedonia on one of his missionary journeys, St. Paul stopped over at Troas, on the north-western coast of modern-day Turkey, where the sheer length of his sermon caused a young man, Eutychus, to be literally bored to death. However, all is well that ends well, and Paul raised him back to life, one of eight resurrections recorded in the Bible:

Acts 20 vv 7-12:

And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.
And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.
And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him.
When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.
And they brought the young man alive, and were not a little comforted.

By the way, if you went to a Mass, you were in the wrong church. As the great Protestant reformers said, the Mass is 'a blasphemous fable and a dangerous deceit'.

The Pope and his men claim that they have the magic power to transform the communion wafer into the actual body of Christ. A hoax, in other words.The Protestant reformers did as the believers at Troas did 2,000 years ago; they simply broke bread as an act of remembrance for their Saviour.

Tony...isn't the story that the earth is only 6000 years old a similar hoax

by Guest 19.08.13 22:42

That's what creationists believe, isn't it? I wouldn't describe it as a hoax, just something that doesn't stand up to scientific evidence.

by Guest 19.08.13 22:51

Reportedly a Bishop's wife at the time in the 1880s when Charles Darwin was claiming that human beings were descended from monkeys, said to her husband: ‘My dear, let us hope it is not true; but, if it is true, let us hope it will not become generally known.’

by whmon 19.08.13 22:58

It was once thought that what separated humans from other apes was tool use. Then it was discovered that this is not true - what actually separates humans from other apes is consonants, as the other apes can only pronounce the vowels clapping

by **Tony Bennett** 19.08.13 23:02

davel wrote:Tony...isn't the story that the earth is only 6000 years old a similar hoax

marconi has driven this thread off topic with his.her meanderings about being bored in church.

The thread is about Alison Saunders - our next Director of Public Prosecutions, and one of two top CPS lawyers who recently went at taxpayers' expense to Portugal. The expert opinion on this forum was that she and her colleague could only legally have made that trip to Portugal if they had in mind possible charges in the Madeleine McCann case against someone in the jurisdiction of Englnd and Wales. I have raised the question of whether there is anything in her record which suggests that she would be unsuitable for the job.

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:That's what creationists believe, isn't it? I wouldn't describe it as a hoax, just something that doesn't stand up to scientific evidence.

I am quite happy to debate the age of the earth, but if someone wants to debate that, could they please start a thread in the Members Lounge.

davel wrote: "Isn't the story that the earth is only 6000 years old a similar hoax"

ANSWER: NO. Very much the reverse. A good starting point is Malcolm Bowden's "The Rise of the Evolution Fraud", Sovereign Publications,ISBN 0 9506042 2 4.

The theory of evolution is arguably the biggest hoax ever perpetrated on mankind (though the Roman Catholic Church might come a close second). But evolution theory is believed by great numbers of people. The scientific evidence is wholly in favour of special creation, not evolution. Similarly, the known scientific facts speak of a very young earth, yes, around 6,000 years old; there was no 'Big Bang' 13 to 15 billion years ago. No scientific fact contradicts a young earth. Down to the Members Lounge please if you want to debate that.

by Guest 19.08.13 23:06

@ whmom
You should hear my youngest dog calling me with what he thinks is calling my name. And he almost got it right Mrs

Spaß beiseite: I agree with Tony. Let's get back OT.

by comperedna 20.08.13 12:48

Tony. I agree this thread has gone off topic. Yes. Let's get back to Ms Saunders about whom I know very little except what I have read online. She will be a king-pin (queen-pin?) in any prosecution if there is one. I will not respond about evolution, except to express my surprise that you wrote what you wrote (!) Move on!

by davel 20.08.13 15:53

Tony Bennett wrote:
davel wrote:Tony...isn't the story that the earth is only 6000 years old a similar hoax
marconi has driven this thread off topic with his.her meanderings about being bored in church.

The thread is about Alison Saunders - our next Director of Public Prosecutions, and one of two top CPS lawyers who recently went at taxpayers' expense to Portugal. The expert opinion on this forum was that she and her colleague could only legally have made that trip to Portugal if they had in mind possible charges in the Madeleine McCann case against someone in the jurisdiction of Englnd and Wales. I have raised the question of whether there is anything in her record which suggests that she would be unsuitable for the job.

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:That's what creationists believe, isn't it? I wouldn't describe it as a hoax, just something that doesn't stand up to scientific evidence.
I am quite happy to debate the age of the earth, but if someone wants to debate that, could they please start a thread in the Members Lounge.

davel wrote: "Isn't the story that the earth is only 6000 years old a similar hoax"

ANSWER: NO. Very much the reverse. A good starting point is Malcolm Bowden's "The Rise of the Evolution Fraud", Sovereign Publications,ISBN 0 9506042 2 4.

The theory of evolution is arguably the biggest hoax ever perpetrated on mankind (though the Roman Catholic Church might come a close second). But evolution theory is believed by great numbers of people. The scientific evidence is wholly in favour of special creation, not evolution. Similarly, the known scientific facts speak of a very young earth, yes, around 6,000 years old; there was no 'Big Bang' 13 to 15 billion years ago. No scientific fact contradicts a young earth. Down to the Members Lounge please if you want to debate that.

tony, it was you who ridiculed the catholic church on a forum about Maddie, I was just showing you that your beliefs are ridiculous too.

by GRACEFUL1 20.08.13 16:31

davel wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
davel wrote:Tony...isn't the story that the earth is only 6000 years old a similar hoax
marconi has driven this thread off topic with his.her meanderings about being bored in church.

The thread is about Alison Saunders - our next Director of Public Prosecutions, and one of two top CPS lawyers who recently went at taxpayers' expense to Portugal. The expert opinion on this forum was that she and her colleague could only legally have made that trip to Portugal if they had in mind possible charges in the Madeleine McCann case against someone in the jurisdiction of Englnd and Wales. I have raised the question of whether there is anything in her record which suggests that she would be unsuitable for the job.

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:That's what creationists believe, isn't it? I wouldn't describe it as a hoax, just something that doesn't stand up to scientific evidence.
I am quite happy to debate the age of the earth, but if someone wants to debate that, could they please start a thread in the Members Lounge.

davel wrote: "Isn't the story that the earth is only 6000 years old a similar hoax"

ANSWER: NO. Very much the reverse. A good starting point is Malcolm Bowden's "The Rise of the Evolution Fraud", Sovereign Publications,ISBN 0 9506042 2 4.

The theory of evolution is arguably the biggest hoax ever perpetrated on mankind (though the Roman Catholic Church might come a close second). But evolution theory is believed by great numbers of people. The scientific evidence is wholly in favour of special creation, not evolution. Similarly, the known scientific facts speak of a very young earth, yes, around 6,000 years old; there was no 'Big Bang' 13 to 15 billion years ago. No scientific fact contradicts a young earth. Down to the Members Lounge please if you want to debate that.

tony, it was you who ridiculed the catholic church on a forum about Maddie, I was just showing you that your beliefs are ridiculous too.

Whatever happened to freedom of speech and freedom to verbally express one's views - those were Tony's views just like yours whoever you are - are yours! Why should you be surprised at someone else's views surely that's their business....Now on with the topic please!

by **Tony Bennett** 20.08.13 17:30

Let me try and rescue this topic by setting out the following matters of concern:

1. Alsion Saunders has been appointed to be the Head of the Crown Proecution Service. She will shortly be placed in overall charge of who should be prosecuted, and who should not

2. She is part of a top management team that is responsible for a culture of bullying within the CPS, which has the lowest staff morale by some margin of any of dozens of civil service departments

3. One of the biggest police corruption and injustice scandals of the last 100 years or more was the 23-year cover-up of police incompetence in the Hillsborough tragedy. Her record is that she failed to heed the evidence of one of the victim's families (Keith Williams IIRC), in relation to an inquest on the boy's death. Furthermore, many other of the victim's families are severely critical of her role in the whole matter, and have queried her appointment. Not olnly that, but AFAIK she has failed to admit or apologise for her serious error

4. Without much doubt the biggest recent police corruption scandal of all, certainly in the last three decades, is the continuing cover-up of the murder of Daniel Morgan in 1987. It is agreed by all that this is a case of serious police corruption. After SIX police reviews of the case, covering 22 years, eventually, four years ago, the police were able to charge 3 men. At least two of these men had connections with Andy Coulson, former News of the World Editor, who is now facing criminal proceedings, and was David Cameron's Director of Communications (with Clarence Mitchell as his deputy). It was Alison Saunders who recommended that the charges against these 3 men be dropped. His brother, Alastair Morgan, who has fought for justice for his brother for 26 years, had his hopes - of seeing justice delivered at last - dashed by Saunders.

Against the above background...

Saunders and a colleague went to Portugal in April this year, in connection with the reported disappearance of Madeleine McCann. Four months on, nobody really knows the real purpsoe of that visit

by Guest 20.08.13 19:32

With all due respect, Tony, I think it's actually comforting that CPS doesn't "tell" us exactly what they're doing ... if you get my drift.

by **Tony Bennett** 20.08.13 19:54

Châtelaine wrote:With all due respect, Tony, I think it's actually comforting that CPS doesn't "tell" us exactly what they're doing ... if you get my drift.

You may be right. I am just saying that it is hard for us to work out what the real purpose of that visit was. Time wil probably tell us, in the end...

by Guest 20.08.13 20:10

If I understand UK law and practice correctly, the CPS will step in at an advanced stage to see if there's any prospect of successful prosecution. They will, again if I understand correctly, indicate what kind of other [firm] evidence they need to proceed. The mere fact THAT they went to Portugal and then the SY review turned into an investigation cannot but give me hopes that something concrete may be on its way. Again: if you get my drift yes

by plebgate 20.08.13 21:21

The review turned into an investigation after they went to Portugal, but we have been informed it is an investigation into 38 POIs.

I hope Chatelaine is right, but I do find myself sitting on the fence for now re. whitewash or not.

by Guest 06.09.15 14:54

DPP Alison Saunders says: 'I’m still the right person for the job'

UK’s most senior prosecutor says she is focused on her role despite calls to resign over decision not to charge Lord Janner with alleged child sex crimes

ALISON SAUNDERS - Senior CPS lawyer who went to Portugal in April - and will become the next Director of Public Prosecutions. Her track record examined. - Page 2 2413

ALISON SAUNDERS - Senior CPS lawyer who went to Portugal in April - and will become the next Director of Public Prosecutions. Her track record examined. - Page 2 2413

Alison Saunders became the first director of public prosecutions to have a major prosecuting decision reviewed. Photograph: Andrew Matthews/PA
Press Association
Sunday 6 September 2015 04.54 BST

The country’s most senior prosecutor said it was “difficult” hearing calls for her to quit over her handling of the Lord Janner case, but insisted: “I’m still the right person for the job.”

Alison Saunders, the director of public prosecutions for nearly two years, faced a backlash when her initial decision not to charge the former Labour peer with alleged child sex crimes was overturned.

Related: Lord Janner: hearing into child sex abuse claims set for February

Her decision was only reviewed after six of the complainants made a request under a scheme introduced two years ago giving victims the right to challenge CPS decisions.
She became the first DPP to have a major prosecuting decision reviewed and overturned through the new policy, prompting calls for her to resign, although she later received the backing of the attorney general, Jeremy Wright QC.
Saunders said: “It’s always difficult if people say that [to resign]. Personally, you don’t like to hear that.”
In addition to her decision on Janner, who has Alzheimer’s, Saunders has faced criticisms over other high-profile cases since becoming the most senior public prosecutor in England and Wales in November 2013.
The failure of a number of prosecutions against members of the media accused of paying public officials for information led to claims that the CPS was wasting money “persecuting innocent journalists”.
Saunders was also blasted for deciding to bring Britain’s first female genital mutilation case against a doctor who was cleared in less than 30 minutes by a jury.
But she also earned plaudits earlier in her career for overseeing high-profile cases such as the prosecution of paedophile Roy Whiting in Sussex in 2001 for the murder of schoolgirl Sarah Payne.
In 2009 she was put in charge of prosecutions in the capital, supervising the conviction of two men for murdering black teenager Stephen Lawrence in 1993.
Her work on the prosecution of thousands of people involved in the August 2011 London riots led to an appointment as Companion of the Order of the Bath.
Saunders said she was focused on her role as the country’s top prosecutor, despite the calls for her to resign.
She said: “I’m satisfied I’m the right person to be here and I’ve got a track record which proves that.
“I’m still in the post which I’m very pleased about.”
Janner, of north London, who is accused of 22 sex abuse charges, will have his trial of the facts heard in the new year.
The 87-year-old is accused of 15 counts of indecent assault and seven counts of a separate sexual offence against a total of nine alleged victims in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s.

by willowthewisp 13.09.15 11:51

Newspaper reports, Daily Mail 20 April 2015, that Lord Janner's son had worked for the CPS/DPP and had worked for the lawyer or close relationship representing his father in Court over his recent appearance at Court?
If this is true, could there not be a conflict of interest?

by Sceptic 13.09.15 19:18

Guest wrote:With all due respect, Tony, I think it's actually comforting that CPS doesn't "tell" us exactly what they're doing ... if you get my drift.

Unless I am mistaken regarding the intracasies of law - The CPS role here is to guide the investigating team (Operation Grange) regarding evidence required and charges to prosecute in England - AFAIK they have no juristriction in Portugal

Facts about the Crown Prosecution Service

The Crown Prosecution Service was set up in 1986 to prosecute criminal cases investigated by the police in England and Wales. In undertaking this role, the CPS:

Advises the police on cases for possible prosecution
Reviews cases submitted by the police for prosecution
Where the decision is to prosecute, determines the charge in the more serious and complex cases
Prepares cases for court
Presents those cases at court

ALISON SAUNDERS - Senior CPS lawyer who went to Portugal in April - and will become the next Director of Public Prosecutions. Her track record examined.