Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

by tiny 04.07.13 17:44

Newintown wrote:
nomendelta wrote:I don't understand how anyone here can put a positive spin on it.

Redwood says there is "no evidence" to suggest Maddie is dead...that then leads to encouraging us all to be vigilant and keep on looking for Maddie.
This is not a "well she might be, she might not" statement - we all know about the dogs, the blood and the cadaverine. For Redwood to state categorically that there is no proof that she is dead means that everything connected with the dogs has been discounted.

This looks more and more like a whitewash to me.

It is very unusual though - even though it's been 6 years since the abduction surely if there was any belief she was alive they'd be getting on with searching those 38 persons of interest?

If this had been a more current abduction there's no way police would be making announcements like that - they'd be vague and getting on with tracking her down.

I have no idea where this is all headed but I really doubt it's about getting the real culprits.

By saying that he is again encouraging people to put more money into the "McCann family support fund", sorry, I meant the "Finding Madeleine" Fund. What the hell is going on with him, has he gone completely mad?

With regard to the dogs, how can he completely ignore them, is he saying in that statement they are completely unreliable. Has G McCann been brain washing him?

Makes you wonder what game is being played here,how on earth can any one ignore the dogs

by sallypelt 04.07.13 17:46

Kepharel wrote:Just heard on news that neither the McCanns nor their friends are among the 12 uk cvitizens they are interested in

This is a strange piece from the BBC:

"Detectives say Madeleine's parents, the friends the McCanns were with in Portugal and people known to the family before they went away are not suspects or people they need to investigate".

So, how CAN the MET rule out every single person the McCann's knew, BEFORE they went away?

I have no doubt that this has been said not to spook anyone, justifying my that we need to go beyond what the Met is saying
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by tasprin 04.07.13 17:56

Kepharel wrote:Just heard on news that neither the McCanns nor their friends are among the 12 uk cvitizens they are interested in

No, of course SY don't want to interview the people who accompanied Madeleine to Portugal; who left her alone in the apartment; who checked on her during the evenings; who were the last people to have seen her alive; who changed their statements; who lied and made a fortune. Why would they want to interview them? Best to stick to a dead, or nearly dead, paedo.

by aiyoyo 04.07.13 17:57

Seriously, can anyone see the Portuguese agreeing to co-operate ie help MPS to whitewash?

by sheila.edwards 04.07.13 18:00

if there ever is a trial at old baily of say a suspect / real abductor, surely it would be a legal nightmare, dogs/dna would be brought up then !

by bristow 04.07.13 18:03

BBC Timeline of inquiry

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by ShuBob 04.07.13 18:10

aiyoyo wrote:Seriously, can anyone see the Portuguese agreeing to co-operate ie help MPS to whitewash?

Not me. I don't believe Amaral amongst others will allow that to happen. I doubt a live patsy would allow it too.

by MaryB 04.07.13 18:16

Seems a very strange investigation indeed if the police do not want to re-interiew those very people who were among the very last to see Madeleine alive. Still it's SY. They must know what they're doing.

by MRNOODLES 04.07.13 18:17

Hi all first post.

First off, IMO I don't see this turning into a whitewash as it stands. At first I felt a little deflated when this news broke because I did feel eh?. However after giving it a little thought. I'm of the thinking, the SY press statements are the usual things said at the beginning of investigations. Therefore it looks to me SY are going to look at the case as though it's 'just happened' as it were. So it follows they have to tie up all loose ends by gathering any other statements which may not have been taken in the first instance for whatever reason. Until that task is completed there's no way SY will make any comments on who they think the suspects may or may not be . Or even what the actual crime has occurred for that matter. Hence the vague maybe dead or alive wordings in the police media statement.
Once all statements are in, they will at that point start looking at evidence, suspects forensics etc etc. And haul in who they think has been telling porkies, for further questioning etc.

I should imagine this could drag on for months yet if they're going over everything. But as long as we all get the right result...And have a watertight case. Unless of course somebody feels the heat sooner and spills their guts first.

by Newintown 04.07.13 18:19

Châtelaine wrote:
Hobs wrote:DCI Redwood said: "There is no clear, definitive proof that Madeleine McCann is dead.

"On that basis I genuinely believe there is a possibility she is still alive. And so I would like to ask the public to continue to look for her."

Read his actual words, not what you think he meant.

His statement is actually weak.

he does not tell us there is no proof Madeleine is dead only that there is NO CLEAR AND DEFINITIVE proof.
Additional words, known as qualifiers, weaken a statement.
Here we see not one but 2 qualifiers further weakening the statement.
Clear and definitive proof of death would be a body, you can't get clearer or more definitive than that.
A body is what we don't have.

He doesn't tell us there is NO proof Madeleine is dead, he cannot say that, given the reactions of the two dogs and the forensic evidence found in the apartment and hire car.
That evidence exists and has been recorded, it is circumstantial evidence of death.
Circumstantial evidence, although not as strong as actual evidence (a body, witnesses to the crime, being caught in the act etc) it however, can be enough to get a conviction if there is enough to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the crime was committed by the person accused.

Next, notice how weak his statement is in regard to Madeleine being possibly alive.
Again a strong statement would be i know Madeleine is alive, or i believe Madeleine is alive.

I believe leaves it open for others to believe otherwise, this can be though knowledge or from evidence.
He weakens it with the qualifier GENUINELY which although it sounds like a strong statement is rather weakened by it.
Can he fake believe she is alive?

The evidence indicates a death in the apartment, the record of the dogs is such that it would be unusual for them to give a false positive in the mccann apartment and not in any other apartment and only to their car and not any other car, and to cuddlecat and items of clothing and not to toys or clothing from other people.
The evidence is such that the mccanns were forced to explain away what was found rather than the fact the dogs were wrong (when gerry tried by using a murder case in America it backfired spectacularly when the killer admitted the dogs had been right all along)

If there was no evidence why did the mccanns come up with explanations for why evidence was found rather than the expected there is no evidence.

And at the start of a sentence indicates missing information, the AND comes right after telling us there is a possibility she is alive, so what is he not telling us?
Looking at what he said in regard to proof of death and belief in life.
He knows.

Would is future conditional.
Expected, if he believed Madeleine was alive, is I WANT the public to keep looking for her.
He cannot ask that since he knows (given the evidence,the behavior of the parents and tapas 7, the statistics etc) that Madeleine is long dead.
He would like us to look for a live Madeleine, now, what does he WANT us to do in reality?

SO is used to explain why something was said/done.
***
Hobs, I haven't finished catching up with all of the pages in this thread [was to the vet on an emergency], but you have very clearly phrased, what I was thinking after reading the statement and hearing Redwood. Bravo!
ETA changing font size and colour of "He knows" by my hand ...

I've just listened to Redwood's statement on the news again and he actually said "there is no guarantee of any outcome" what

I missed that earlier, so he's actually saying that after spending £5m+ on the investigation, there is no guarantee, so that means nobody may be held to account, Madeleine abducted herself or was the cause of her own accident in the apartment (she shouldn't have been so bl**dy clumsy), G & K McCann are completely innoncent although they confimed they left the kids on their own, home alone every night, D Payne who was the last to see Madeleine (or not see her) is absolutely innocent, the blood and cavadar dogs are totally useless, the PJ were lying all along and G Amaral was lying in his book.

Or have I got all that completely wrong?

Looks like a complete whitewash to me. Someone very high up is going to be protected, together with the McCanns, otherwise why isn't he saying "we will take this case to a conclusion however long it may take".

by aiyoyo 04.07.13 18:23

One has to ask what the CPS hope to get when they submit the International Letter of Request for "evidence" from Portuguese to help their line of inquiry.

If the Portuguese should deny CPS their request (just like the UK authorities denied Portuguese' request for credit cards and medical records), what are the Review Team/CPS going to do? Surely MPS would become a joke if they were to close the review after having prolonged it only to announce Portuguese denied them access to evidence, so end of the road!

Just ask yourself why the Portuguese should or would oblige the CPS or the UK Government just to satisfy MET whitewash (if that is the objective)?

by Guest 04.07.13 18:25

MRNOODLES wrote:Hi all first post.

First off, IMO I don't see this turning into a whitewash as it stands. At first I felt a little deflated when this news broke because I did feel eh?. However after giving it a little thought. I'm of the thinking, the SY press statements are the usual things said at the beginning of investigations. Therefore it looks to me SY are going to look at the case as though it's 'just happened' as it were. So it follows they have to tie up all loose ends by gathering any other statements which may not have been taken in the first instance for whatever reason. Until that task is completed there's no way SY will make any comments on who they think the suspects may or may not be . Or even what the actual crime has occurred for that matter. Hence the vague maybe dead or alive wordings in the police media statement.
Once all statements are in, they will at that point start looking at evidence, suspects forensics etc etc. And haul in who they think has been telling porkies, for further questioning etc.

I should imagine this could drag on for months yet if they're going over everything. But as long as we all get the right result...And have a watertight case. Unless of course somebody feels the heat sooner and spills their guts first.

MRNOODLES

Scotland Yard according to reports today are only 2/3 through the review, so not even completed that. Every investigation has to eliminate all persons of interest, ie. either they are innocent, or they will the made suspects. They have 38 persons of interest, so I expect they will be interviewed and eliminated, or looked at closely. I have just heard Andy Redwood say on BBC.....'No guarantees of any outcome' I think they still have a long way to go before or if ever anyone is charged.

by bristow 04.07.13 18:30

MRNOODLES wrote:Hi all first post.

First off, IMO I don't see this turning into a whitewash as it stands. At first I felt a little deflated when this news broke because I did feel eh?. However after giving it a little thought. I'm of the thinking, the SY press statements are the usual things said at the beginning of investigations. Therefore it looks to me SY are going to look at the case as though it's 'just happened' as it were. So it follows they have to tie up all loose ends by gathering any other statements which may not have been taken in the first instance for whatever reason. Until that task is completed there's no way SY will make any comments on who they think the suspects may or may not be . Or even what the actual crime has occurred for that matter. Hence the vague maybe dead or alive wordings in the police media statement.
Once all statements are in, they will at that point start looking at evidence, suspects forensics etc etc. And haul in who they think has been telling porkies, for further questioning etc.

I should imagine this could drag on for months yet if they're going over everything. But as long as we all get the right result...And have a watertight case. Unless of course somebody feels the heat sooner and spills their guts first.

Good post but if SY are looking at the case as if it had just happened I would have thought they would 'look' at the family first, isn't that what they do in the disappearance of somebody?

by Newintown 04.07.13 18:30

aiyoyo wrote:One has to ask what the CPS hope to get when they submit the International Letter of Request for "evidence" from Portuguese to help their line of inquiry.If the Portuguese should deny CPS their request (just like the UK authorities denied Portuguese' request for credit cards and medical records), what are the Review Team/CPS going to do? Surely MPS would become a joke if they were to close the review after having prolonged it only to announce Portuguese denied them access to evidence, so end of the road!

Just ask yourself why the Portuguese should or would oblige the CPS or the UK Government just to satisfy MET whitewash (if that is the objective)?

To find out what they've got on the McCanns and any one else which is hidden away in their files, so it can all be lost and put under a "D" notice for the future.

I read somewhere on a news article (can't remember which one now) that the International Letter of Request is a European law which it is hoped that all EU countries will adhere to. Could be interesting if the PJ definitely say NO.

ETA: Of course, this all could be leading up to the forthcoming Amaral trial and the MET desperate to find out what info there is in Portugal which may come out in the trial, is there actually 38 people of interest or is it just a ruse for them to get their hands on that hidden away information. We've seen how the MET operate in the Stephen Lawrence case, I don't believe they've changed their ways if they need information which could blow open the goings on of a government.

by MissesWillYa 04.07.13 18:37

Longtime lurker here...I'm in the US and just read this news on CNN's website a few minutes ago. I just feel sad. I don't understand how they can ignore the cadaver dogs and hold out any hope that she's alive. Or how they can rule out the last people who were with her before she disappeared. I don't get it. All I know is that I have a four-year-old daughter and I can't abide the injustice to that poor little girl. I'm sorry, Madeleine. empathy

by aiyoyo 04.07.13 18:39

In preparation for today’s announcement, senior officers from Operation Grange made 16 visits to Portugal in order to ensure that any potential difficulties were ironed out.
If a British suspect is ever charged with abduction or murder in the case, the law allows them to be tried at the Old Bailey in London, even if the alleged crime took place overseas.

by sherlock 04.07.13 18:40

The article on the Sky News website has now been rewritten and updated within the last 10 minutes, If you go and read it now there's no mention of The McCanns or their friends not being of interest. Looks like Michelle Clifford (Sky reporter) may have actually read the SY statement properly this time!)

by Pershing36 04.07.13 18:41

ITV news

Andy Redwood has made a statement and confirmed the Parents have been totally eliminated from the investigation.

Either they are innocent or it is a whitewash. I can say no more but they gained top story on the ITV news.

I can't believe there is going to be a Colombo style twist.

It is over as far as this investigation in my mind. Can't see how anything else would come of it now.

by Newintown 04.07.13 18:46

Pershing36 wrote:ITV news

Andy Redwood has made a statement and confirmed the Parents have been totally eliminated from the investigation.
Either they are innocent or it is a whitewash. I can say no more but they gained top story on the ITV news.

I can't believe there is going to be a Colombo style twist.

It is over as far as this investigation in my mind. Can't see how anything else would come of it now.

That's what I heard him say on the Sky 2.00 p.m. news and it was backed up by Graham Wettone, former MET police officer on the 3.30 news, I think it was. I thought I wasn't hearing things.

by MRNOODLES 04.07.13 18:46

bristow wrote:
MRNOODLES wrote:Hi all first post.

First off, IMO I don't see this turning into a whitewash as it stands. At first I felt a little deflated when this news broke because I did feel eh?. However after giving it a little thought. I'm of the thinking, the SY press statements are the usual things said at the beginning of investigations. Therefore it looks to me SY are going to look at the case as though it's 'just happened' as it were. So it follows they have to tie up all loose ends by gathering any other statements which may not have been taken in the first instance for whatever reason. Until that task is completed there's no way SY will make any comments on who they think the suspects may or may not be . Or even what the actual crime has occurred for that matter. Hence the vague maybe dead or alive wordings in the police media statement.
Once all statements are in, they will at that point start looking at evidence, suspects forensics etc etc. And haul in who they think has been telling porkies, for further questioning etc.

I should imagine this could drag on for months yet if they're going over everything. But as long as we all get the right result...And have a watertight case. Unless of course somebody feels the heat sooner and spills their guts first.

Good post but if SY are looking at the case as if it had just happened I would have thought they would 'look' at the family first, isn't that what they do in the disappearance of somebody?

yep, you're probably right, but 'the family' aren't going anywhere. I'm just trying to stay positive in the hope that a thorough investigation builds a watertight case, so TM can't pick holes in it.

by bristow 04.07.13 18:47

Newintown wrote:
To find out what they've got on the McCanns and any one else which is hidden away in their files, so it can all be lost and put under a "D" notice for the future.

What a terrifying thought!

by plebgate 04.07.13 18:52

MaryB wrote:Seems a very strange investigation indeed if the police do not want to re-interiew those very people who were among the very last to see Madeleine alive. Still it's SY. They must know what they're doing.

Good point, but maybe they have already re-interviewed them?

As somebody posted earlier, why do they need a family liaison officer to be assigned to them? Perhaps PeterMac will know if this is standard procedure?

Re. the police saying that The Tapas Crew + Mr. & Mrs. are not on the list of persons of interest. I believe the police did need to state this as perhaps the press would have had a field day with headlines if this had not been stated by Mr. Redwood.

As Russian Doll posted, let us hope that the Met do the best by Maddie.

Now that SY are officially investigating Maddie's disappearnce is there still a donate button on their website?

by Pershing36 04.07.13 18:53

Newintown wrote:
Pershing36 wrote:ITV news

Andy Redwood has made a statement and confirmed the Parents have been totally eliminated from the investigation.
Either they are innocent or it is a whitewash. I can say no more but they gained top story on the ITV news.

I can't believe there is going to be a Colombo style twist.

It is over as far as this investigation in my mind. Can't see how anything else would come of it now.

That's what I heard him say on the Sky 2.00 p.m. news and it was backed up by Graham Wettone, former MET police officer on the 3.30 news, I think it was. I thought I wasn't hearing things.

When you look at it, it was a no news story. It was nothing new, just what has been said months before.

The message was clear in my mind, to quash all the speculation of why the CPS are in Portugal. Seems SY and the powers to be follow this forum as well.

Guess this will have to be filled as an unexplained case.

Please does anyone still think this is not a whitewash?

by Guest 04.07.13 18:54

Spokesman for the McCanns, Clarence Mitchell, said: "Kate and Gerry warmly welcome this shift in the Metropolitan Police emphasis. They see it as a huge step forward in establishing what happened and hope that it will lead to bringing to justice whoever was responsible for Madeleine's abduction."

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IMO a very strange statement. No mention of their desire to be reunited with their little girl. Surely details and justice are what you look for after?

by The Rooster 04.07.13 18:55

The media are a bunch of w**kers, don't be taken in. Hobs is correct in his/ her assessment... The McCanns will be, if involved, captured by the Met. When I first heard the News Report on BBC Radio 2 my heart skipped a beat and I felt the blood drain from me. For the first time I realized what I had hitherto only passingly thought, now the whole grizzly tale of deceipt, hate, contempt and the whole 9 grey yards of filthy laundry would be aired for us all to see in public.

There are dark days ahead for sure and whilst the boys in blue will have the stomach for it I'm not sure I will. Justice for a little girl, I don't know about that one. If the parents are involved I see small justice only a void on the copybook of mankind.

OK Now get on with the job at hand Mr Redwood and bring in the right result.

by Guest 04.07.13 19:00

Can someone make sense of this. Andy Redwood says, (maybe not exactly word for word)

I'm hopeful when we pursue these lines of enquiry, we will be able to bring some sort of resolution, whether we will be able to solve it is a different issue, but I hope we will be able to move investigation on.

Some sort of resolution, but maybe not solve it....... what does that mean exactly.

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by Newintown 04.07.13 19:01

bristow wrote:
Newintown wrote:
To find out what they've got on the McCanns and any one else which is hidden away in their files, so it can all be lost and put under a "D" notice for the future.
What a terrifying thought!

The papers into the death/inquest of Dr David Kelly (weapons inspector) had a 100 years closure order slapped on it by Tony Bliar, now why would that be?

by Guest 04.07.13 19:03

Pershing36 wrote:
Newintown wrote:
Pershing36 wrote:ITV news

Andy Redwood has made a statement and confirmed the Parents have been totally eliminated from the investigation.
Either they are innocent or it is a whitewash. I can say no more but they gained top story on the ITV news.

I can't believe there is going to be a Colombo style twist.

It is over as far as this investigation in my mind. Can't see how anything else would come of it now.

That's what I heard him say on the Sky 2.00 p.m. news and it was backed up by Graham Wettone, former MET police officer on the 3.30 news, I think it was. I thought I wasn't hearing things.

When you look at it, it was a no news story. It was nothing new, just what has been said months before.

The message was clear in my mind, to quash all the speculation of why the CPS are in Portugal. Seems SY and the powers to be follow this forum as well.

Guess this will have to be filled as an unexplained case.

Please does anyone still think this is not a whitewash?

This is what he says on ITV news website, nothing about being eliminated, just not the people that SY want to speak to..........

Scotland Yard has confirmed that Kate and Gerry McCann are not among the 38 people identified as "persons of interest".

The group that the McCanns were dining with in Praia da Luz on the night Madeleine went missing, are also not among the 38 people of interest.

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by russiandoll 04.07.13 19:09

The words used to describe Maddie by SY are vanished, missing and disappeared.
Nowhere, not on TV, not in the SY written statement, is the Tapas group mentioned, only a mention of K and G being updated. Standard procedure I would have thought as is having a FLO.

I would imagine that in a scheduled press briefing a few if not all reporters shouted out the question, upon hearing that there were 12 UK nationals on the list of persons of interest..." are Kate and Gerry and/or their holiday companions on the list?

To which, [ in order to avoid unwanted behaviour by the media, as was stated later , the answer was a simple "no."]

So as things stand, on 4th July 2013, the police appear to have indicated to reporters that they do not want to speak to the McCanns and friends.
This has been reported in word and print as
The McCanns and friends have been eliminated.
The McCanns and friends are not suspects.
Mr Redwood did not speak of any suspects or any eliminations.
Neither was the above mentioned in the written statement.

It is possible that the UK nationals of interest plus the foreigners are people who were there at the time who might have something to say about the actions of other UK nationals not on the list...the tapas 9.

by Newintown 04.07.13 19:12

candyfloss wrote:
Pershing36 wrote:
Newintown wrote:
Pershing36 wrote:ITV news

Andy Redwood has made a statement and confirmed the Parents have been totally eliminated from the investigation.
Either they are innocent or it is a whitewash. I can say no more but they gained top story on the ITV news.

I can't believe there is going to be a Colombo style twist.

It is over as far as this investigation in my mind. Can't see how anything else would come of it now.

That's what I heard him say on the Sky 2.00 p.m. news and it was backed up by Graham Wettone, former MET police officer on the 3.30 news, I think it was. I thought I wasn't hearing things.

When you look at it, it was a no news story. It was nothing new, just what has been said months before.

The message was clear in my mind, to quash all the speculation of why the CPS are in Portugal. Seems SY and the powers to be follow this forum as well.

Guess this will have to be filled as an unexplained case.

Please does anyone still think this is not a whitewash?

This is what he says on ITV news website, nothing about being eliminated, just not the people that SY want to speak to..........

Scotland Yard has confirmed that Kate and Gerry McCann are not among the 38 people identified as "persons of interest".

The group that the McCanns were dining with in Praia da Luz on the night Madeleine went missing, are also not among the 38 people of interest.

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Andy Redwood has made a statement on TV which both I and Pershing 36 heard as in the top line above, underlined. It was also repeated by Graham Wettone, former MET police officer in a later Sky News interview.

To my mind "totally eliminated from the investigation" means "totally eliminated" or does it have another meaning I'm missing the point of.