Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: On Moving and Hiding Bodies - Pat Brown

by joyce1938 07.03.12 17:18

There is a morgue at a place called Mertola,on holiday last year we took a drive to a reustrant called THE TABLE ON THETOP,We then drove on to a place called mertola ,very small little place and we took a turning to park and parked next to a morgue,tiny one and we were surprised to find such in small village.it just came back as i am reading joyce1938 not that i have any idea if it would be relevent .

by russiandoll 07.03.12 17:22

In sijm's defence, the morgue theory might be implausible but at least it is not as distasteful as a disgraceful post on this forum a couple of months ago suggesting that as Gerry was a doctor[ not a surgeon, note] he would know how to dismember a body.
Please don't have a go at sijm for one outlandish theory, at least he suggests respectful treatment of the child after her demise.

by rainbow-fairy 07.03.12 18:07

Sorry russiandoll! Its nice to think the child was shown respect after her demise, just a pity she was shown so little beforehand...
Its not one outlandish theory, its one after another...really its another poster who has got my back up badly so I will say
'Sorry sijm, that I was harsh in my reply. Must pick you up on something though - another poster did NOT say Krugel found a pink and blue blanket. They said pink and white checked. Just in the interest of accuracy!'
I just think we have to be careful not to give the 'Pro-McCanns Anti-s-are-all-sicko's' lot too much ammo. They think we are barking anyway. I'm absolutely dedicated to justice for Maddie, and that is something I will never apologise for.

by Guest 07.03.12 18:32

russiandoll wrote:In sijm's defence, the morgue theory might be implausible but at least it is not as distasteful as a disgraceful post on this forum a couple of months ago suggesting that as Gerry was a doctor[ not a surgeon, note] he would know how to dismember a body.
Please don't have a go at sijm for one outlandish theory, at least he suggests respectful treatment of the child after her demise.

I know to whom you refer Russian doll - the dismemberment thing - and he (?) was definitely a troll so obviously his intention was to bring discredit to the forum.

by **Nina** 07.03.12 19:00

Whilst reading this thread I have just noticed the photographs on the top right of the page. Thankyou whoever it is who does these.

The one with Gerry and the golf bag, is this taken in PdL, and how many golf sticks can you see?

by sijm 07.03.12 20:21

Thank you for those kind words, I am not a male but a female hence the sensitive feelings towards a small child.

You have all done such a good job here and its not one of the most pleasant jobs, please believe me when I say, I wish only to add to your cause, to fined the truth for Madeleine no matter what.

by aiyoyo 08.03.12 3:07

Nina wrote:Whilst reading this thread I have just noticed the photographs on the top right of the page. Thankyou whoever it is who does these.

The one with Gerry and the golf bag, is this taken in PdL, and how many golf sticks can you see?

I spotted that photo too - I doubt it's taken in PdL since there was no report of them having played golf there.

The general idea is Gerry did have a 'biggish hold-all bag' be it sports or travel bag whatever, but big enough for the suspected purpose.
Golf clubs are not light either,and most golfers being fit can carry them for fairly long distance without problem.
When you've a bag slung over the shoulder for support, leaving your hands free to support the base up, easing off the weight on your side, it's amazing the distance you can cover without too much difficulty especially when you've a determined purpose.
So the point that a small child could be hidden in such a bag and carried out of the apt is very plausible.

The mystery of the missing blue bag is definitely of interest to the Police as the mystery of missing Madeleine, else the Police wouldn't have mentioned it.

by Liz Eagles 08.03.12 3:40

People carrying bags in a holiday resort is not unusual - even at strange times of the day/night due to flight arrivals/departures (and they don't need to necessarily be UK flights to/from Portugal). It would be quite easy to stick a bag on a transfer bus to the airport and go unnoticed. Get to the airport, bag unloaded, no-one would notice if you took your bag to an awaiting car instead of check-in. It doesn't even need to be YOU that takes the bag on the bus transfer. Just a thought.

There's even the accepted practice of leaving your bag with heaps of other bags in reception with other bags because your flight was much later than your check-out time.

I'm adding as usual. The bag in the cupboard could have been a bag used as luggage. I travel a lot and use lightweight bags to gain the max weight allowance. The bag in the cupboard may well have been something sinister or just a ruse, once again who knows. BUT it's very easy to transfer a bag to an airport in a holiday resort as it's just a bag. The bag would not have needed to go through customs or be checked if it had simply sat with a pile of other bags and at arrival could have been put in a car and transported.

by Gillyspot 08.03.12 6:33

Nina wrote:Whilst reading this thread I have just noticed the photographs on the top right of the page. Thankyou whoever it is who does these.

The one with Gerry and the golf bag, is this taken in PdL, and how many golf sticks can you see?

I have seen the original photo somewhere and it is taken at Rothley Park Golf Club. I have had a look recently & have been unable to find it again. If someone else can provide a link as it was the article I wanted not the photo. friends

by **tigger** 08.03.12 7:40

aiyoyo wrote:
Nina wrote:Whilst reading this thread I have just noticed the photographs on the top right of the page. Thankyou whoever it is who does these.

The one with Gerry and the golf bag, is this taken in PdL, and how many golf sticks can you see?

I spotted that photo too - I doubt it's taken in PdL since there was no report of them having played golf there.

The general idea is Gerry did have a 'biggish hold-all bag' be it sports or travel bag whatever, but big enough for the suspected purpose.
Golf clubs are not light either,and most golfers being fit can carry them for fairly long distance without problem.
When you've a bag slung over the shoulder for support, leaving your hands free to support the base up, easing off the weight on your side, it's amazing the distance you can cover without too much difficulty especially when you've a determined purpose.
So the point that a small child could be hidden in such a bag and carried out of the apt is very plausible.

The mystery of the missing blue bag is definitely of interest to the Police as the mystery of missing Madeleine, else the Police wouldn't have mentioned it.

David Payne in his RI stated that Gerry didn't have a large bag and helpfully and memorably said that there was nothing big enough to errrm hide a tennis racket in.

by Willo 08.03.12 8:17

The blue bag was seen in the photo sitting in the cupboard. I believe the PJ would have other photos and indeed they would have physically examined the bag whilst checking the apartment. The McCann's deny all knowledge of such a bag existing. For them to blatantly lie knowing full well the the bag would have been documented by the PJ shows how important this bag is. I would say it was definitely used to carry Madelienes body in the back of the car from a temporary hiding place to who knows where. Unknowing to them the bag was leaching tell tell DNA as they drove off to complete their sordid plan.

I wonder what the duo will say when confronted with clear evidence of the existence of the bag in a court of law?

by **Jill Havern** 08.03.12 8:50

Gillyspot wrote:
Nina wrote:Whilst reading this thread I have just noticed the photographs on the top right of the page. Thankyou whoever it is who does these.

The one with Gerry and the golf bag, is this taken in PdL, and how many golf sticks can you see?

I have seen the original photo somewhere and it is taken at Rothley Park Golf Club. I have had a look recently & have been unable to find it again. If someone else can provide a link as it was the article I wanted not the photo.

Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: On Moving and Hiding Bodies - Pat Brown - Page 2 Golfba11

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/03/maddie-case-goncalo-amaral-returns-to.html

Walter Scott · by david_uk 08.03.12 8:57

aquila wrote:People carrying bags in a holiday resort is not unusual - even at strange times of the day/night due to flight arrivals/departures (and they don't need to necessarily be UK flights to/from Portugal). It would be quite easy to stick a bag on a transfer bus to the airport and go unnoticed. Get to the airport, bag unloaded, no-one would notice if you took your bag to an awaiting car instead of check-in. It doesn't even need to be YOU that takes the bag on the bus transfer. Just a thought.

There's even the accepted practice of leaving your bag with heaps of other bags in reception with other bags because your flight was much later than your check-out time.

I'm adding as usual. The bag in the cupboard could have been a bag used as luggage. I travel a lot and use lightweight bags to gain the max weight allowance. The bag in the cupboard may well have been something sinister or just a ruse, once again who knows. BUT it's very easy to transfer a bag to an airport in a holiday resort as it's just a bag. The bag would not have needed to go through customs or be checked if it had simply sat with a pile of other bags and at arrival could have been put in a car and transported.

Surely there would be a problem once this bag reached London Airport?

by joyce1938 08.03.12 10:23

I have never seen a blue bag in cupboard ,could be navy blue i guess ,but it also could have been normal suitcase,its nit clear enough to see in any pics so far .I guess sy would try to look at all and try to elimenate some of what we are guessing at ,no bad thing as we dont want to get hung up on something that we dont need to.if we do it seems to bring so many more problems and still we cant work it out.ofcourse i want to see justice and hope it will be soon joyce1938

by aiyoyo 08.03.12 10:53

Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:
Gillyspot wrote:
Nina wrote:Whilst reading this thread I have just noticed the photographs on the top right of the page. Thankyou whoever it is who does these.

The one with Gerry and the golf bag, is this taken in PdL, and how many golf sticks can you see?

I have seen the original photo somewhere and it is taken at Rothley Park Golf Club. I have had a look recently & have been unable to find it again. If someone else can provide a link as it was the article I wanted not the photo.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/03/maddie-case-goncalo-amaral-returns-to.html

OMG - priceless! just seen it now.

by happychick 08.03.12 11:49

Willo wrote:The blue bag was seen in the photo sitting in the cupboard. I believe the PJ would have other photos and indeed they would have physically examined the bag whilst checking the apartment. The McCann's deny all knowledge of such a bag existing. For them to blatantly lie knowing full well the the bag would have been documented by the PJ shows how important this bag is. I would say it was definitely used to carry Madelienes body in the back of the car from a temporary hiding place to who knows where. Unknowing to them the bag was leaching tell tell DNA as they drove off to complete their sordid plan.

I wonder what the duo will say when confronted with clear evidence of the existence of the bag in a court of law?

So, if there was a blue sports bag in the wardrobe as shown in the pic at the top of the forum and Gerry didn't go to PDL to play golf it makes me wonder why he took the sports bag that David Payne said wasn't big enough to "hide a tennis racquet". Why would you 'hide' a tennis racquet in a sports bag? Surely you would put a tennis racquet in a sports bag and maybe 'hide' a dead body in it to dispose of it?

And IF that's what happened then why didn't they want Madeleine's body to be found?

Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: On Moving and Hiding Bodies - Pat Brown - Page 2 234726

Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: On Moving and Hiding Bodies - Pat Brown - Page 2 234726

by sijm 08.03.12 11:55

How more weird can this case get, the golf pros on the Alto Club and Boavista Club next to Praia da Luz are named as Mark Gaspar and Tony Bennet, and one John Buck rated the Alto club 7 out of 10, how weird is that!

by Liz Eagles 08.03.12 12:06

david_uk wrote:
aquila wrote:People carrying bags in a holiday resort is not unusual - even at strange times of the day/night due to flight arrivals/departures (and they don't need to necessarily be UK flights to/from Portugal). It would be quite easy to stick a bag on a transfer bus to the airport and go unnoticed. Get to the airport, bag unloaded, no-one would notice if you took your bag to an awaiting car instead of check-in. It doesn't even need to be YOU that takes the bag on the bus transfer. Just a thought.

There's even the accepted practice of leaving your bag with heaps of other bags in reception with other bags because your flight was much later than your check-out time.

I'm adding as usual. The bag in the cupboard could have been a bag used as luggage. I travel a lot and use lightweight bags to gain the max weight allowance. The bag in the cupboard may well have been something sinister or just a ruse, once again who knows. BUT it's very easy to transfer a bag to an airport in a holiday resort as it's just a bag. The bag would not have needed to go through customs or be checked if it had simply sat with a pile of other bags and at arrival could have been put in a car and transported.

Surely there would be a problem once this bag reached London Airport?

Hi david-uk,

What I meant was that it would be easy to get the bag from the resort to the airport. Once at the airport it could be put into a hire-car and driven anywhere.

by worriedmum 08.03.12 12:12

but out of anywhere else to choose from, I would expect an airport to have cctv......

by Guest 08.03.12 12:22

sijm wrote:How more weird can this case get, the golf pros on the Alto Club and Boavista Club next to Praia da Luz are named as Mark Gaspar and Tony Bennet, and one John Buck rated the Alto club 7 out of 10, how weird is that!

Where has this info come from sijm? I have looked at the Boavista Club page, and not seen anything. Interesting though that a Mr John Geraghty is or was a member in 2006 and is on the Hole in one Club page.

http://www.boavistagolf.com/holeinone.asp

by worriedmum 08.03.12 12:34

I think that the facts about the bag should be established before theories are made

Walter Scott · by david_uk 08.03.12 12:52

worriedmum wrote:I think that the facts about the bag should be established before theories are made

Amen!.

First thing. When was the photo taken of the bag in the wardrobe.

What happened to the bag in the wardrobe photo after it was photographed.

Was it taken into evidence or was it left with the mccanns.

by Guest 08.03.12 13:18

david_uk wrote:
worriedmum wrote:I think that the facts about the bag should be established before theories are made

Amen!.

First thing. When was the photo taken of the bag in the wardrobe.

What happened to the bag in the wardrobe photo after it was photographed.

Was it taken into evidence or was it left with the mccanns.

This is what we know from Mr Amaral - read the first post, and also the video from Martin Brunt below it.............

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4496-goncalo-amaral-talks-about-the-missing-sports-bag

by aiyoyo 08.03.12 14:02

aquila wrote:People carrying bags in a holiday resort is not unusual - even at strange times of the day/night due to flight arrivals/departures (and they don't need to necessarily be UK flights to/from Portugal). It would be quite easy to stick a bag on a transfer bus to the airport and go unnoticed. Get to the airport, bag unloaded, no-one would notice if you took your bag to an awaiting car instead of check-in. It doesn't even need to be YOU that takes the bag on the bus transfer. Just a thought.

There's even the accepted practice of leaving your bag with heaps of other bags in reception with other bags because your flight was much later than your check-out time.

I'm adding as usual. The bag in the cupboard could have been a bag used as luggage. I travel a lot and use lightweight bags to gain the max weight allowance. The bag in the cupboard may well have been something sinister or just a ruse, once again who knows. BUT it's very easy to transfer a bag to an airport in a holiday resort as it's just a bag. The bag would not have needed to go through customs or be checked if it had simply sat with a pile of other bags and at arrival could have been put in a car and transported.

While it is a common sight for bags or luggage to be seen piled in heaps at reception area waiting to be delivered to room or for transfer to airport I should hardly think any one in their right mind would place a bag containing a "body" on this heap and risk someone picking it up by mistake or being knock over.

If a bag with such content is meant for the airport for a third party then surely there are better ways of getting it to the airport without building up one's blood pressure by doing something as stupid as heaping it onto an existing pile.

There were plenty movements among the mccanns holiday friends going home and family arriving that if an extra bag that does not belong to the travelling member was put in car for the airport who is to know. Question is why would they want to take a bag with a 'body' to the airport? Whatever for? Every bag that goes on a flight is scan mandatory.
If it's taken to airport for land transfer, the land transfer cant involve crossing of channels for obvious reason, so why the need to take it to the airport only for cross regional or cross borders transport? It simply does not make practical sense.

If you are saying it's quite normal for one to be carrying a sports bag or hold all bag around a holiday resort and no one will think anything about it or think it's suspicious then enough. People do carry sports bag or hold-all bag around resort and beach for their sporting or water activities. People can be carrying rackets, towels and this and that for the entire family or be carrying snorkelling gears, children floats, toys, sandcastle spade and bucket, towels, sun cream, H20 ond what not for the entire family members so walking around with a bag in holiday apt isn't such a big deal really.

by Liz Eagles 08.03.12 14:09

aiyoyo wrote:
aquila wrote:People carrying bags in a holiday resort is not unusual - even at strange times of the day/night due to flight arrivals/departures (and they don't need to necessarily be UK flights to/from Portugal). It would be quite easy to stick a bag on a transfer bus to the airport and go unnoticed. Get to the airport, bag unloaded, no-one would notice if you took your bag to an awaiting car instead of check-in. It doesn't even need to be YOU that takes the bag on the bus transfer. Just a thought.

There's even the accepted practice of leaving your bag with heaps of other bags in reception with other bags because your flight was much later than your check-out time.

I'm adding as usual. The bag in the cupboard could have been a bag used as luggage. I travel a lot and use lightweight bags to gain the max weight allowance. The bag in the cupboard may well have been something sinister or just a ruse, once again who knows. BUT it's very easy to transfer a bag to an airport in a holiday resort as it's just a bag. The bag would not have needed to go through customs or be checked if it had simply sat with a pile of other bags and at arrival could have been put in a car and transported.

While it is a common sight for bags or luggage to be seen piled in heaps at reception area waiting to be delivered to room or for transfer to airport I should hardly think any one in their right mind would place a bag containing a "body" on this heap and risk someone picking it up by mistake or being knock over.

If a bag with such content is meant for the airport for a third party then surely there are better ways of getting it to the airport without building up one's blood pressure by doing something as stupid as heaping it onto an existing pile.

There were plenty movements among the mccanns holiday friends going home and family arriving that if an extra bag that does not belong to the travelling member was put in car for the airport who is to know. Question is why would they want to take a bag with a 'body' to the airport? Whatever for? Every bag that goes on a flight is scan mandatory.
If it's taken to airport for land transfer, the land transfer cant involve crossing of channels for obvious reason, so why the need to take it to the airport only for cross regional or cross borders transport? It simply does not make practical sense.

If you are saying it's quite normal for one to be carrying a sports bag or hold all bag around a holiday resort and no one will think anything about it or think it's suspicious then enough. People do carry sports bag or hold-all bag around resort and beach for their sporting or water activities. People can be carrying rackets, towels and this and that for the entire family or be carrying snorkelling gears, children floats, toys, sandcastle spade and bucket, towels, sun cream, H20 ond what not for the entire family members so walking around with a bag in holiday apt isn't such a big deal really.

Aiyoyo, you're right. It's a really crap theory I just 'purported'. I didn't really think it through and I agree with other posters and apologise for theorising before gleaning the facts.

Sorry folks.

by sijm 08.03.12 14:09

Candyfloss.

The site for the Golf Club info is Holiday Accommodation in Praia da Luz,Algarve, Portugal.

I did not say these names were linked to this case only that it was a weird coincidence.

Mark Gasper & Carlos Ribeiro at Gramacho- Tony Bennet & BGLC Learning Centre at Alto Club

by Guest 08.03.12 14:13

sijm wrote:Candyfloss.

The site for the Golf Club info is Holiday Accommodation in Praia da Luz,Algarve, Portugal.

I did not say these names were linked to this case only that it was a weird coincidence.

Mark Gasper & Carlos Ribeiro at Gramacho- Tony Bennet & BGLC Learning Centre at Alto Club

Ok, but can you please put up a link.

Walter Scott · by david_uk 08.03.12 15:11

candyfloss wrote:
david_uk wrote:
worriedmum wrote:I think that the facts about the bag should be established before theories are made

Amen!.

First thing. When was the photo taken of the bag in the wardrobe.

What happened to the bag in the wardrobe photo after it was photographed.

Was it taken into evidence or was it left with the mccanns.

This is what we know from Mr Amaral - read the first post, and also the video from Martin Brunt below it.............

[url=https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4496-goncalo-amaral-talks-about-the-missing-sports-bag

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4496-goncalo-amaral-talks-about-the-missing-sports-bag[/quote[/url]]

Surely GA of all people really should have known what happened to the bag?!!

by aiyoyo 08.03.12 15:23

david_uk wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
david_uk wrote:
worriedmum wrote:I think that the facts about the bag should be established before theories are made

Amen!.

First thing. When was the photo taken of the bag in the wardrobe.

What happened to the bag in the wardrobe photo after it was photographed.

Was it taken into evidence or was it left with the mccanns.

This is what we know from Mr Amaral - read the first post, and also the video from Martin Brunt below it.............

[url=https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4496-goncalo-amaral-talks-about-the-missing-sports-bag
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4496-goncalo-amaral-talks-about-the-missing-sports-bag[/quote[/url]]

Surely GA of all people really should have known what happened to the bag?!!

I should hope so after all the hinting.

Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: On Moving and Hiding Bodies - Pat Brown