Re: McCanns Easter break Donegal 2007

by bobbin 27.01.14 10:55

sami wrote:
tigger wrote:
MissDaisy wrote:Speaking purely hypothetically, what if they were in Portugal in Easter, 2007 and GM was meeting people there that he had met on previous trips. Maybe it was a meeting that the people involved wouldn't want anyone knowing about. GM had always made much of his Irish background to these people and that's what they knew of him, son of Irish immigrants proud of his Irish heritage. However,after 3rd of May he is on TV everywhere, maybe he hasn't been telling the truth about aspects of his background and therefore the Donegal background has to be reinforced and the character Joe Peoples is used to push the story. As I say, all just hpothetical and I have probably way overthought it! Again just my opinion.

What if the blue eyeshadow photo was taken in Burgau and what if it was taken around Easter? Mere speculation.
It is not impossible they were in both Donegal and PDL at Easter. The Easter break from schools etc is a two week period so any visit to Donegal during those two weeks could be referred to as "Easter". The airport is only minutes from where they are supposed to have stayed in Donegal.

There has been a big effort to advertise the Donegal trip and whilst I am sure a certain part of that is to generate funds from the Irish public, equally it suggests they could not have been in Portugal because they were in Donegal.

Were specific dates ever made known for the Donegal visit does anyone know ?

Good point. high5

The dates of Donegal should be easy to clarify. All those people must have had boarding cards for airplane seats at the very least.
Furthermore, how would those dates of McCs 5, correlate with the Zaival witness claimed date.
At least that would need to be eliminated as cross correlation.
Does anyone know of any dates at all re the above ?

by ultimaThule 27.01.14 11:34

"It was the first time we had been back to Donegal as a family and the first time Kate was there," Gerry said as the couple seemed lost for a moment in an idyllic place and time.

Which family is the wee one referring to? Is he saying that he, his mother, and his siblings were making their first trip en famille to the auld country?

If he is referring to his own family, i.e. himself,his spouse & his sprogs, making their first trip to Donegal, why would there be any need to say it was Kate's first time there?

by Guest 27.01.14 14:48

bobbin wrote:
Good point.
The dates of Donegal should be easy to clarify. All those people must have had boarding cards for airplane seats at the very least.
Furthermore, how would those dates of McCs 5, correlate with the Zaival witness claimed date.
At least that would need to be eliminated as cross correlation.
Does anyone know of any dates at all re the above ?

This is the problem with "drawing everything back to zero" - you have to decide when zero was. They could have flown direct from Donegal to Faro, perhaps even using assumed identities. Nothing would surprise me now.

by MissDaisy 27.01.14 16:48

I wonder if their actual whereabouts at Easter, 2007 has any connection to the refusal for their financial statements for the period covering the previous six months to be handed over. Is it really true they didn't gave a credit card? I find that very odd.

by ultimaThule 28.01.14 1:08

It's unthinkable that the McCanns didn't have a credit card to their names in 2007. How else were they able to book flights to and from Amsterdam, Donegal, and all the other trips they made out of the UK since their marriage? Through cash/cheque payments to travel agents or to friends/relatives who booked the trips on their behalf?

I suspect they had considerably more than one credit card between them and I also suspect the spending on those cards would reveal things they didn't want the PJ to know, even if those things were limited to mundanities such as the cards being either maxed out or close to whatever limits were imposed on them.

It seems to me that 'zero' has to go back to the last time Madeleine was seen in Rothley by independent witnesses such as neighbours, nursery staff etc.

by Rasputin 28.01.14 8:19

ultimaThule wrote:It's unthinkable that the McCanns didn't have a credit card to their names in 2007. How else were they able to book flights to and from Amsterdam, Donegal, and all the other trips they made out of the UK since their marriage? Through cash/cheque payments to travel agents or to friends/relatives who booked the trips on their behalf?

I suspect they had considerably more than one credit card between them and I also suspect the spending on those cards would reveal things they didn't want the PJ to know, even if those things were limited to mundanities such as the cards being either maxed out or close to whatever limits were imposed on them.

It seems to me that 'zero' has to go back to the last time Madeleine was seen in Rothley by independent witnesses such as neighbours, nursery staff etc.

I echo your thoughts there UT , after reading the snippet where Gerry " couldn't go into the house at Rothley " ....yet he was able to swan in and out of 5a as though nothing had happened .

by sami 28.01.14 8:54

According to the good old Daily Mail he had credit cards in his stolen wallet:

"He was forced to delay the series of meetings he had planned while he cancelled his credit cards."

How long was the delay I wonder ? Ten minutes on the phone could hardly constitute delaying a series of meetings, seems a bit extreme.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by **tigger** 28.01.14 9:36

sami wrote:According to the good old Daily Mail he had credit cards in his stolen wallet:

"He was forced to delay the series of meetings he had planned while he cancelled his credit cards."

How long was the delay I wonder ? Ten minutes on the phone could hardly constitute delaying a series of meetings, seems a bit extreme.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Tut, tut, Important series of meetings with Others almost as Important as GM - it's vaguely implied here that the great and good of Britain were left kicking their heels until the Great One would appear. pray2

Never miss an opportunity for self-agrandissement. (Please correct if misspelled).

by Mirage 28.01.14 9:42

From Ch 18 of Truth of the Lie:

At the same time, we hope to obtain a response to our request to the British authorities, made through the liaison officer in Portugal on the first day of the investigation, for information on the McCann family and their friends. Given the fact that we have, so far, received no response to this enquiry, we will make the request for the desired information through the rogatory letter.

We ask Stuart about this matter and he says that, “they are in the process of gathering that information.

”However, a preliminary response comes to us about the McCanns’ financial situation: astonishingly, there are no records of the McCanns holding any credit or debit cards.

- That’s quite simply not possible!

- They don’t have credit cards? However, we know that they hold at least two: one which they used to pay for the flights, and a second which was used for the hire of the Renault Scénic.

- The English need to sort themselves out. We need the McCanns’ financial statements from the start of their holiday in Portugal.
---------------------------
Pity the press here never reported that little nugget. But then they were too busy smearing a decent man.

by Guest 28.01.14 9:44

ultimaThule wrote:
It seems to me that 'zero' has to go back to the last time Madeleine was seen in Rothley by independent witnesses such as neighbours, nursery staff etc.

Maybe I was just disappointed not to find anything untoward in them, but I found the nursery workers' statements a bit.... I can't quite put my finger on it, but a bit OTT maybe? I would have thought something like "Madeleine attended XXX nursery from this date to this date and no concerns about her welfare were raised" would have been more in keeping with the nature of an abduction enquiry. Not a ringing endorsement of the saintliness of all concerned.

It is possible I'm just a miserable twonk.

by **tigger** 28.01.14 9:51

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
ultimaThule wrote:
It seems to me that 'zero' has to go back to the last time Madeleine was seen in Rothley by independent witnesses such as neighbours, nursery staff etc.

Maybe I was just disappointed not to find anything untoward in them, but I found the nursery workers' statements a bit.... I can't quite put my finger on it, but a bit OTT maybe? I would have thought something like "Madeleine attended XXX nursery from this date to this date and no concerns about her welfare were raised" would have been more in keeping with the nature of an abduction enquiry. Not a ringing endorsement of the saintliness of all concerned.

It is possible I'm just a miserable twonk.

The airport video is supposed to be 'zero' . The rogs don't convince ar all, esp. The GPs.
You wouldn't put down the name of anyone who'd contradict your story.
So simply choose those who are prepared to say the right things and learn ~~your~~ their lines by heart .

I've always found the airport bus video a strange release. around three weeks after 3/5 - had the PJ asked questions on the lack of holiday snaps? 5a not exhibiting much in the way of children on holiday?

The release is mentioned in the blog, iirc 'friends' have posted the video.
2007 mobile video was usually better quality, but imo the atmosphere that comes over is someone trying to be jolly after a huge row. Happy campers on the way to a jolly holiday? nah

by Guest 28.01.14 10:00

tigger wrote:

I've always found the airport bus video a strange release. around three weeks after 3/5 - had the PJ asked questions on the lack of holiday snaps? 5a not exhibiting much in the way of children on holiday?

The release is mentioned in the blog, iirc 'friends' have posted the video.
2007 mobile video was usually better quality, but imo the atmosphere that comes over is someone trying to be jolly after a huge row. Happy campers on the way to a jolly holiday?

Tigger, did you see the exchange I had with somebody on here about the bus video? He doubted it was Faro, as at the time they used very wide bodied buses (like, twice the width of a normal bus, two would take all the passengers from a flight) which was my experience also. That's the problem with all of their material, no context. If whoever took it had once pointed the camera at a window I probably wouldn't be typing this now.

by **tigger** 28.01.14 10:10

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
tigger wrote:

I've always found the airport bus video a strange release. around three weeks after 3/5 - had the PJ asked questions on the lack of holiday snaps? 5a not exhibiting much in the way of children on holiday?

The release is mentioned in the blog, iirc 'friends' have posted the video.
2007 mobile video was usually better quality, but imo the atmosphere that comes over is someone trying to be jolly after a huge row. Happy campers on the way to a jolly holiday?

Tigger, did you see the exchange I had with somebody on here about the bus video? He doubted it was Faro, as at the time they used very wide bodied buses (like, twice the width of a normal bus, two would take all the passengers from a flight) which was my experience also. That's the problem with all of their material, no context. If whoever took it had once pointed the camera at a window I probably wouldn't be typing this now.

In this topic? i'll have a look. Thanks.

by Guest 28.01.14 10:17

ultimaThule wrote:It's unthinkable that the McCanns didn't have a credit card to their names in 2007. How else were they able to book flights to and from Amsterdam, Donegal, and all the other trips they made out of the UK since their marriage? Through cash/cheque payments to travel agents or to friends/relatives who booked the trips on their behalf?

I suspect they had considerably more than one credit card between them and I also suspect the spending on those cards would reveal things they didn't want the PJ to know, even if those things were limited to mundanities such as the cards being either maxed out or close to whatever limits were imposed on them.

It seems to me that 'zero' has to go back to the last time Madeleine was seen in Rothley by independent witnesses such as neighbours, nursery staff etc.

Re credit cards

I cannot find out who exactly was supposed to have actually hired and paid for the cars but I know from personal experience that you cannot hire a car from the major rental chains in s Spain without a credit card (it is held in case damages need to be charged). No credit card no car. And nothing else would suffice inc cash, debit card, cheque. Hence I spent weeks driving around s Spain whilst my parter looked at the views :evil: . I expect the system is the same in Portual and iirc they used Budget which quotes on it's website that you do need a credit card:-

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Says that credit cards needed for most companies and in the case of high value vehicles multiple credit cards may be needed.

And I cannot imagine going abroad with two children etc without the financial back-up that a credit card provides. What if an accident happened?

All in my opinion of course

by Guest 28.01.14 10:18

tigger wrote:
In this topic? i'll have a look. Thanks.

I've just checked myself. It's me, Beijos and a few others on the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] topic.

by MissDaisy 28.01.14 11:27

From the PJ background check, it says "There is no report or statement of bank credit cards listed in the research carried out. However I was alerted to the fact that if an individual maintains an account open with the same bank or credit card accounts for a long period of time, these details do not appear in this kind of search."

That report is dated 16th May 2008 so if his cards were reported stolen/cancelled in June 2007 then they would not have shown up in the 2008 search. As a result there is no credit card trail to prove whether they were in Donegal or Portugal at Easter 2007.

by Liz Eagles 28.01.14 11:58

MissDaisy wrote:From the PJ background check, it says "There is no report or statement of bank credit cards listed in the research carried out. However I was alerted to the fact that if an individual maintains an account open with the same bank or credit card accounts for a long period of time, these details do not appear in this kind of search."

That report is dated 16th May 2008 so if his cards were reported stolen/cancelled in June 2007 then they would not have shown up in the 2008 search. As a result there is no credit card trail to prove whether they were in Donegal or Portugal at Easter 2007.

It's hard to believe UK police could not obtain this information.

"Computer Says No" seems to be the response to the PJ.

by ultimaThule 29.01.14 0:55

tigger wrote:< snip >

So which story is correct?

"Kate and Gerry McCann happily talked about their first family holiday in Ireland at Easter where they spent five blissful days with Madeleine and her two-year-old twin sister and brother, Amelie and Sean.

"It was the first time we had been back to Donegal as a family and the first time Kate was there," Gerry said as the couple seemed lost for a moment in an idyllic place and time.

"It was a real big family get-together with all of my extended family and close friends. It was a fantastic holiday and the kids had a ball. There were 27 of us in all and we took three cottages in Dunloe. We spent the first two days on the beach. The weather was gorgeous and Madeleine and the kids just ran up and down the sand dunes," Gerry McCann said, adding that it reminded him of so many of his childhood summers there. "

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"She said it could be too painful for the couple to revisit the area, where they had a great time in 2007 just weeks before little Maddy (4) was snatched from a holiday apartment in the Algarve last May.

In exclusive pictures published by the Belfast Telegraph in the weeks following her disappearance, Madeleine was seen with her cousins happily playing on the beach and enjoying an ice cream during the Easter break in Donegal.

On their annual trip to the county last year, Kate and Gerry took Madeleine and their twins Sean and Amelie to St Johnston to see the pub where Gerry's father John was born.

Madeleine's aunt, Philomena McCann, revealed last year that 46 family and friends enjoyed the holiday in Donegal where she was also born.
Unquote

27 or 46? Do the McCanns have problems counting and was the Turkish holiday much of the same?
Not that It makes a difference - 27 or 46 - I still need a dark room and a wet towel on my head - all those McCanns......

Which story would that be indeed, tigger. The one that has Phil born in Donegal or this one [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (scroll down to fifth paragraph of 'Maddy family spread appeal across Europe' 11 May 2007) also from the Belfast Telegraph, which has her born in Ulster?

Never let it be said the McCanns miss a trick when appealing to the good people of the Emerald Isle, or anywhere else for that matter.

The thought of 2 McCanns in the same place is enough to have me craving a darkened room; anything more and I'm reaching for the valium.

Btw, the one you meant has 2 g's and 1 s, but as the one you used is more commonly applied to an enlarged photo it can't be said to be out of place in matters McCann smilie

by ultimaThule 29.01.14 1:47

MissDaisy wrote:
tigger wrote:What if the blue eyeshadow photo was taken in Burgau and what if it was taken around Easter? Mere speculation.
Good point, it could well have been taken at Easter. When I look at the picture I think of the Estrela da Luz apartments though.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

On first sight of the Estrela da Luz I was struck by how similar in architectural style it seemed to the Spanish location used in the Crimewatch 'reconstruction' - stick a round table and 9 chairs by that pool at night and bob's your uncle, as they say.

Given the Moorish influence on architecture in the southern part of the Iberian peniusula it's most probably not of any great import, but if it was known the McCanns had stayed at the Estrela it amuses me to think that anyone engaged in playing them at their own game would drop the odd reminder of a covert or overt nature just to keep the pot simmering, so to speak.

Having written the above, before posting I checked the linked again to confirm my first impression whereupon on scrolling through the various views of the Estrela I came to the last one which, oddly enough, is of a familiar looking church with the clock hands set at ten to five. big grin

by Guest 29.01.14 2:10

UT,Donegal is in the province of Ulster so both statements are correct unless I have read your post wrong.
Tired and can't sleep :-(

by ultimaThule 29.01.14 2:57

Bellisa wrote:UT,Donegal is in the province of Ulster so both statements are correct unless I have read your post wrong.
Tired and can't sleep :-(

I'm exhausted and can't sleep either, Bellisa.

Of course you're correct but, most probably due to that fervent Ulsterman the Rev Paisley, I've always seen Ulster as being the 6 counties which comprise Northern Ireland with the other 3, Cavan, Monaghan, and Donegal, being part of the Republic of Ireland.

It therefore seemed to me that mention of Phil's birth having occurred in both Donegal and Ulster, as opposed to Donegal, Eire, straddled the great divide of euros & £'s for the collecting buckets. < resolves to channel Pollyanna >

by Rufus T 04.01.15 0:07

From a post by uppatoffee on page 16

I have just scoured the bewk for references to Gerry's father and it says that he died in March 2005 in hospital in Glasgow, just six weeks after Sean and Amelie were born. However looking on the Scotlandspeople website there don't appear to be any McCanns whose death was registered in Glasgow and who were old enough.

John James McCann's death was registered in Eastwood in 2005 age at death 68. Eastwood registrars is in the south side of Glasgow ( in East Renfrewshire to be precise).

by Cora 13.06.15 10:24

Well it's taken me 2 days to plough through this thread but what an interesting one it has proven to be.

A friend of mine, an experienced genealogist of some 15 years has been having trouble finding records on the McCann family. And no wonder with so much false information regarding birth places!! I have passed onto her what has already been found on this thread. Has anybody ever done a complete family tree before?

Re the IRA. This has been something I considered this week before I even came to this forum, I don't really know why except at the end of Richard D. Halls superb videos he mentions Kincora Boys Home and it's not really in context with the rest of the content of the 4 videos and it was like a little niggle in my mind. With the McCann family coming from Northern Ireland I did start going down that path, it would explain so much about the high level involvement of the Government even though we've had more than a few changes of leadership and parties since 2007.

by Amy Dean 13.06.15 10:54

Cora, the McCanns hail originally from Donegal in the Irish Republic, very close to the border with the North.

by Guest 13.06.15 10:56

[quote="Cora"]Well it's taken me 2 days to plough through this thread but what an interesting one it has proven to be.

A friend of mine, an experienced genealogist of some 15 years has been having trouble finding records on the McCann family. And no wonder with so much false information regarding birth places!! I have passed onto her what has already been found on this thread. Has anybody ever done a complete family tree before?

Re the IRA. This has been something I considered this week before I even came to this forum, I don't really know why except at the end of Richard D. Halls superb videos he mentions Kincora Boys Home and it's not really in context with the rest of the content of the 4 videos and it was like a little niggle in my mind. With the McCann family coming from Northern Ireland I did start going down that path, it would explain so much about the high level involvement of the Government even though we've had more than a few changes of leadership and parties since 2007.[/quote]

==============================================

Why would anyone want to invade the McCs and their family's privacy in this manner?
What has that got to do with whatever happened to their daughter?

by Amy Dean 13.06.15 11:00

I think it's relevant, Portia. If as it appears they have told a load of lies about their family history, one can only wonder why and what they're trying to hide.

by Guest 13.06.15 11:06

Seems very intrusive and in breach of their privacy to me
And of their family's privacy

Is this breach warranted?
My advice would be to thread very careful here; think before you do anything that might compromise yourselves

by **tigger** 14.06.15 7:27

Portia wrote:Seems very intrusive and in breach of their privacy to me
And of their family's privacy

Is this breach warranted?
My advice would be to thread very careful here; think before you do anything that might compromise yourselves

As for checking the story given, I think there's every reason to do so. But can't see why we need a death certificate of GM's father.

However, iirc Joe Peoples gives the impression that K and G were frequent visitors. Kate says in her book it was the first time they were there.

A story about Maddie jumping into the freezing waters of the Atlantic, a family reunion of which there are widely different accounts and the McCanns own early focus on Donegal - yes imo it warants some analysis.

If your child has just disappeared why 'promote' the Donegal holiday? Photos sent to Belfast Telegraph within two days - photos which are imo so shoddily photoshopped that in one Maddie is missing half her neck and in another does a balancing trick with an ice cream cone.
Fair enough to mention it, but surely you'd be more concerned to find where she is than where she's been? You'd be looking, helping the police. Not telling the world what a jolly wholesome, Walt Disney type of family you have?

It's TM who pointed to Donegal. Btw I have it on good authority (someone who's been there) that the pub is very much a sort of male 'club'. You know the sort, any stranger coming in will leave in 5 seconds.

So I'm wondering if the lack of PdL photos also had something to do with it and the cute Donegal ones were 'arranged' to give the public at least some proof of a lovely holiday and a healthy, happy Maddie. Because the last photo wasn't available untill two weeks later.

Perhaps a few photographs should have been taken in The OC but this did not happen as something went wrong very early on? I.e. We should have had some real holiday shots but Maddie was not available from a fairly early date? Which is why the last photo took a bit of time to appear.
Just musing.

by Cora 15.06.15 17:01

Portia wrote:Seems very intrusive and in breach of their privacy to me
And of their family's privacy

Is this breach warranted?
My advice would be to thread very careful here; think before you do anything that might compromise yourselves

It is not myself who is doing this family tree but a friend, I just passed her on some snippets from here like somebody had found Mrs McCann senior was not born in Ireland as has been printed many times but was born in Glasgow.. Anybody can research any records they like as far as I know, I think it's the anomalies that have intrigued her as she can't find records as expected.

by Guest 15.06.15 18:19

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the whole thing turned out to be a witness protection plan gone fatally wrong: nothing is what it seems it is.

Latest topics