Re: Smithman theory

by Silentscope 26.05.24 14:06

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Post [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] refers to the PJ’s version of Events.

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Obviously completely different to the Op Grange time line?

If they bothered to make one.

by crusader 26.05.24 14:13

Thanks Silentscope. thumbup

by Silentscope 26.05.24 15:31

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] might like to Research all the Timelines supplied by 'Team McCann' to the Press.

In most of them the Alarm will have been raised at 22:00.

Covering the sighting of 'Smithman' perfectly.

Giving the Tapas group from 21:20 until 22:50 to trample the 'Crime Scene' get their Stories straight and call the GNR in.

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by Paddingtom 26.05.24 15:35

Ive been interested in the discussion about dodgy timelines and, needing to resolve the inconsistency for myself, I have come up with a possible scenario. I have selected a few incidents from Goncalo's books and various online files, that I think are most likely to be factual. I have then used these incidents to try and construct a possible timeline. The incidents themselves are underlined. It is rather Brian Rix farce, but then it has been for the last 17 years.

I have further assumed:

1.Maddie is long gone.
2.The group did not have their phones with them at the tapas – presumably to increase the drama of Kate running in and announcing “theyve taken her”.
All times are give or take a few minutes. I will call the man with a child, “man with child” to allow for your own personal interpretation and please as many people as possible.

9.25. Gerry arrives at Russ' flat after chatting to Jez – he is now running 15 minutes late 9.30 Kate, oblivious to the delay, raises alarm and the restaurant empties.
Dianne Webster on her own in restaurant
9.33 Everyone is told not to run round screaming yet as Man with child has not left yet and it is decided they should not return to the restaurant as it may look rather odd. 9.40 Man with child leaves flat and walks or more likely, is driven by someone I shall call M5 to a point just before the Estela de Luz cctv.
9.50 Man with child walks infront of cctv heading towards beach
9.55 Smith family see Man with child
9.58 A resident of the apartments leaves and is not aware of any activity
10.00 Man with child is picked up and driven back to resort.
10.05 Man with child arrives at resort and informs them he has been seen by a huge family.
10.05 Panic ensues. It is decided that the abduction will be at 10.15 so that if the large family and cctv show a man with child around 10.00, it will be ignored because the child hasnt been abducted yet.
10.15 Everyone starts to look busy wandering about and starting to shout.
10.30 Mrs Fenn starts hearing noise and shouting for first time

In due course people are interviewed and statements taken. Jane Tanner announces that she saw the abductor at 9.15 heading in the opposite direction to the beach i.e. towards the Sagres road. and. too late, realises that not only has the time been moved forward an hour from the original time, but that her sighting clashes with Gerry chatting to Jez. It will come back to haunt her and leave her in tears when Gerry refuses to back her up knowing she has got the time wrong.

by Silentscope 26.05.24 16:35

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

1.Maddie is long gone.
A.When was the last credible Sighting of Madeleine by someone not associated with the Tapas group? Sunday afternoon by the Cleaner, or Thursday at Breakfast in the Millenium?

2.The group did not have their phones with them at the tapas – presumably to increase the drama of Kate running in and announcing “theyve taken her”.
All times are give or take a few minutes. I will call the man with a child, “man with child” to allow for your own personal interpretation and please as many people as possible.

A. Phones might have caused interruptions to their Dining or been used to record speech or pictures that might later become incriminating?
Not to mention the Camera left at the Table in the Panic with no Pictures taken on their last Dinner? Why did no-one take any Pictures of the 'Crime Scene' with it after Dianne ran back to the Bar to get it?

9.25. Gerry arrives at Russ' flat after chatting to Jez – he is now running 15 minutes late.
A. Gerry was back at the Table 21:15-21:20.

9.30 Kate, oblivious to the delay, raises alarm and the restaurant empties.
A. Gerry changes into 'Smithman' clothing and dissapears the Body, comes back, dumps clothing on the Sofa and Bed. Gets back into the clothing he was wearing before.

Dianne Webster on her own in restaurant

A. Looking after all the Clothes and stuff left by the Group in a panic.
(Assuming they were all Duped by K&G after the alarm)

9.33 Everyone is told not to run round screaming yet as Man with child has not left yet and it is decided they should not return to the restaurant as it may look rather odd.
A. Possible. But reports indicate they were discussing the implications of calling the Police because they could ALL be charged with Abandonment.

9.40 Man with child leaves flat and walks or more likely, is driven by someone I shall call M5 to a point just before the Estela de Luz cctv.
A.It would not be worth using a Vehicle for such a short trip? No-one

had access to a Vehicle at such short notice if we are to believe 'IT' hapened that night.

9.50 Man with child walks infront of cctv heading towards beach
A. Unknown if he ever did, Dr Amaral regrets not getting the CCTV Images in time, but usually the Camera would only cover non Public areas such as the Hotel entrance, not the road.

9.55 Smith family see Man with child
A. OK

9.58 A resident of the apartments leaves and is not aware of any activity
A. Who?

10.00 Man with child is picked up and driven back to resort.
A. Who is driving, and which Car?

10.05 Man with child arrives at resort and informs them he has been seen by a huge family.
A. Why did Tanner not change her Timing to suit this new Information?
The Timelines were written AFTER the Smiths sightings (Alledgedly)

10.05 Panic ensues. It is decided that the abduction will be at 10.15 so that if the large family and cctv show a man with child around 10.00, it will be ignored because the child hasnt been abducted yet.
A. Not working, the Timelines were set at 22:00.

10.15 Everyone starts to look busy wandering about and starting to shout.
A. Fenn heard nothing outside until the News had finished.

10.30 Mrs Fenn starts hearing noise and shouting for first time

A. Exactly after the News at 10 was over.

I hope that helps Iron out any bumps in your Theory?

by crusader 26.05.24 16:36

I'm still of the mind all the statements from the McCann's and tapas 7 contain manipulated truths.
Jane probably did see someone at the top of the street carrying a child, Julian Totman.
He said he told the police it was him Jane probably saw.
It's a very clever thing to do, they are telling the truth, but manipulating it to suit the situation.
They have all done it in their statements.

by Silentscope 26.05.24 16:44

I agree Crusader.

It is not the only time that they have done that.

But there is unfortunately a big gap between what is believed to be known and what can be proven.

I think it more likely that Totman was recruited by Redwood to spare Tanner further embarressment.

by Ladyinred 26.05.24 16:51

Yes, I remember at the time it being discussed that Redwood invented him.

by **Jill Havern** 26.05.24 16:53

Ex-Met DCI Andy Redwood had a "revelation moment" on BBC1's Crimewatch on 14th October 2013 when he announced that Operation Grange had eliminated the Tanner sighting - which opened up the 'window' of opportunity' from 3 minutes to 45 minutes, in accordance with their remit, to allow the staged abduction to happen.

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by Ladyinred 26.05.24 17:02

Have I remembered wrongly what happened?

Trying to do too much today!

by Silentscope 26.05.24 17:12

'Smithman' made 'Tannerman' obsolete.

by Silentscope 08.06.24 13:04

The Original Photo of gerry wearing the Buttoned pants was apparrently taken by Shutterstock on 16 June 2007. See Site below page 10.

Image Description
Stock Image ID: 671473a

Missing British girl, Madeleine McCann, Praia da Luz, Algarve, Portugal - 16 Jun 2007

Gerry McCann explaining the logistics and planning of the "find Madeleine " campaign in the make shift office in the Mark Warner apartment

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by Silentscope 08.06.24 13:42

Aoife Smith was the person who stated that 'Smithman' was wearing trousers which were smooth "rights" along the legs, beige in colour, cotton fabric, thicker than linen, possibly with buttons, and without any other decoration.

Her Statement was taken on 26.05.2007.

3 Weeks before 16.06.2007 when the Photo was taken or came out into the Public domain.

She could not therefore, have seen it BEFORE making her Statement.

by crusader 08.06.24 13:59

If it was Gerry Aoife saw, you would think he would have gotten rid of anything he waring that night.

by **Jill Havern** 08.06.24 14:03

Did the dogs alert to those trousers?

by crusader 08.06.24 14:14

I don't think they did.
No mention of them in the PJ files, it did mention a man's tee shirt.

by AnneCGuedes 08.06.24 14:21

Jill Havern wrote:Did the dogs alert to those trousers?

These trousers do not appear among the clothes that had to be displayed to find out what Eddie was alerting to.
June 14th is probably the date of the "wider agenda" and of the photos where GMC wears beige trousers with fancy buttons on the side, above the knee, like Smithman. It doesn't seem that these trousers were in fashion at the time.

by Silentscope 08.06.24 16:18

If people who believe Gerry was Smithman wearing Buttoned pants then how do we explain the lack of Cadaver odour on those clothes?

The Cadaver odour had to have been present before the removal.

If they believe the Death occurred on the Evening of 03.05.07.

Kate did not dump her Checked trousers did she?

Even though her excuse was multiple Deaths were attended by herself in the Latham House Medical Practise where she worked.

by Cake Lover 08.06.24 16:38

Wouldn't the multiple deaths at the medical practise excuse have worked for the buttoned shorts as well? The McCann's would surely have made contact while wearing those two items of clothing - sitting next to each other, draping discarded garments over the same chair, etc.

by AnneCGuedes 08.06.24 16:46

Silentscope wrote:If people who believe Gerry was Smithman wearing Buttoned pants then how do we explain the lack of Cadaver odour on those clothes?

Death scent was strong if death occurred on 2 to 3 night. No evidence of beige buttoned pants being tested by Eddie. G might have taken them to the UK on June 19 and left them there.

by crusader 08.06.24 17:11

If Madeleine died on 2nd May, the only reason someone that looked like Gerry would be wandering around with a child, was to prove Madeleine was still alive up to the 3rd May.
But that plan would rely on someone seeing them and telling the police what they saw.
Madeleine missing, man with a child at the time of alarm being raised, easy for the Smith's to think they saw the abductor.
I can't think of any other reason.
But the Smith's didn't at that time know there had been an abduction.
Assuming the Smith's are telling the truth, that is one heck of a coincidence.

by crusader 08.06.24 17:35

I was just reading Aoife statement.
I wonder if the buttons on the trousers she described were not on the legs, but the fly's.

by Cake Lover 08.06.24 17:40

That was my first thought, but now I've seen the shorts, I can see that buttons in that design would be really noticeable, imo.

by crusader 08.06.24 17:47

But the man the Smith's saw was wearing beige long pants.

by Cake Lover 08.06.24 18:05

Damn and blast laugh

by Silentscope 08.06.24 18:24

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Buttons on the outside of the long trousers.
Seen 3 weeks BEFORE this Picture was taken.

by AnneCGuedes 08.06.24 19:02

crusader wrote:If Madeleine died on 2nd May, the only reason someone that looked like Gerry would be wandering around with a child, was to prove Madeleine was still alive up to the 3rd May.
But that plan would rely on someone seeing them and telling the police what they saw.
Madeleine missing, man with a child at the time of alarm being raised, easy for the Smith's to think they saw the abductor.
I can't think of any other reason.
But the Smith's didn't at that time know there had been an abduction.
Assuming the Smith's are telling the truth, that is one heck of a coincidence.

Then this complex reasoning might not be the right one.
Smithman didn't wander around, he was probably going to put the body in the water, so the next tide would bring it back to the beach and a funeral could take place. The S family forced him to come up with a plan B, no doubt improvised.

by **Jill Havern** 08.06.24 19:23

For a man approaching a group of people with a 'sleeping' child, the Smith's sure did pay a heck of a lot of attention to him and notice a lot of fine details about Smithman, shoes, hair, buttons...even though it was dark.

And then later be able to recall it all in a statement.

by Cake Lover 08.06.24 19:41

Especially noticing that the trousers were not a linen weight.

by crusader 08.06.24 19:52

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote..
Smithman didn't wander around, he was probably going to put the body in the water, so the next tide would bring it back to the beach and a funeral could take place. The S family forced him to come up with a plan B, no doubt improvised.

We don't know whether whoever was carrying the child was wandering around in various places just waiting until someone came along to see him.
Why would Smithman want to put the body into the sea so she could be washed up and given a funeral?
I thought the general thinking was, Madeleine had an accident and they couldn't report it for whatever reason and that's why the abduction plan was hatched, ie no body to post mortem.
They wouldn't want her washing up and giving away the real reason she was hidden.

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