Re: The latest McCann suspect: Scotland Yard has revealed vital new information about a suspect wanted in connection with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

by cookiemuncher 16.06.20 15:57

talby66 wrote:
Doug D wrote:Trotters suggestion that CB was 'out on the rob' when he stumbled upon MM didn't have to be on the Thursday night.

Earlier in the week the settee could have been further away from the window, maybe to stop the kids climbing on it to try and look out and not therefore pushed back as in the PJ photos, giving a clear line of sight as soon as you tried to come in the lounge patio doors.

What if it had been say, Sunday night', it obviously spooked him, he wouldn't have even to have actually entered the apartment, hence no DNA, but then not hearing anything on the news for a few days, he decided to try his luck somewhere else around the OC complex again on the Thursday, which would account for him being in the right vicinity.

Just thinking out loud really.
If he'd stumbled upon that I would have thought he could easily trade a bit of "robbing" for the information leading to a reward of £1m.

Or perhaps there was some blackmailing going on "I know what you know"........

by Guest 16.06.20 16:20

Former Police Officer On The Latest On The Madeleine McCann Case | This Morning

13 years after the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, the truth of what happened on that fateful day in a Portuguese holiday resort remains unknown. Yet, in a dramatic turn of events, police revealed on Wednesday that a German suspect has been identified, as they offer a 10,000 euro reward for any information that helps solve this case once and for all.

ITV News correspondent Emma Murphy is live from Praia da Luz and former police officer Mark Williams-Thomas joins us with the latest.

Broadcast on 05/06/20

by cookiemuncher 16.06.20 16:28

Doug D wrote:Trotters suggestion that CB was 'out on the rob' when he stumbled upon MM didn't have to be on the Thursday night.

Earlier in the week the settee could have been further away from the window, maybe to stop the kids climbing on it to try and look out and not therefore pushed back as in the PJ photos, giving a clear line of sight as soon as you tried to come in the lounge patio doors.

What if it had been say, Sunday night', it obviously spooked him, he wouldn't have even to have actually entered the apartment, hence no DNA, but then not hearing anything on the news for a few days, he decided to try his luck somewhere else around the OC complex again on the Thursday, which would account for him being in the right vicinity.

Just thinking out loud really.

Doug D

I doubt a petty criminal who stumbled on a young child dying on the floor of the apartment he was just about to rob would bring him back a few days later. Or am I misunderstanding your comment.

I would have thought there would be hundreds of other apartments/villas for him to rob, not one that he found a dying child in.

by cookiemuncher 16.06.20 16:57

Jill Havern wrote:
sallypelt wrote:Madeleine McCann: Police say other people will have 'concrete knowledge' of her disappearance. The BKA appeal said: "There is reason to assume that there are other persons, apart from the suspect, who have concrete knowledge of the course of the crime and maybe also of the place where the body was left."
Enter Stephen Birch and Murat's driveway again?

Just dig it up and be done with it for gawd's sake.

Jill

If Murat wasn't involved in Madeleine's death why would he help out her parents? I don't understand that logic, unless he was supplying drugs but why get yourself involved in the death of a child just for selling drugs. Surely you would fess up to supplying drugs rather than have the death of a child hanging over your head.

I do understand as Trotters said earlier that this German guy may have got into the apartment after the McCanns left and found Madeleine dying on the floor and was shocked and did a runner.

Perhaps if he was blackmailing them they made a pact that he would hide the body and get a good payout when they'd finished suing everyone, Amaral included, although that all went tits up when £50,000 was raised for Amaral's defence much to the McCanns' annoyance (although I think "annoyance" is too much of a mild term to use.)

by Doug D 16.06.20 16:59

Talby66:

If he'd stumbled upon that I would have thought he could easily trade a bit of "robbing" for the information leading to a reward of £1m.

The big money was for the ‘safe return’.

Cookiemuncher:

‘Or perhaps there was some blackmailing going on "I know what you know"........’

That could fit better. Payoff better than small reward?

Cookiemuncher:

I would have thought there would be hundreds of other apartments/villas for him to rob, not one that he found a dying child in.

Didn’t mean he would go back to 5a, just other apartments around the complex.

This is all purely conjecture. No evidence for any of it, the same as the ‘evidence’ that doesn’t exist to fit up the German patsy.

by Guest 16.06.20 17:01

Verdi wrote:
Silverspeed wrote:Just heard a news report on the radio stating that the McCann's are saying they haven't received a letter from the German Police saying that she is dead.

Either they have or they haven't. Both stories can't be true.
Someone is obviously lying.

Of course the German police or any legal beagle hasn't written a letter to the Mccanns telling them their daughter is dead - but he can't say how, what, where or why. The idea is preposterous in the extreme.

Can you imagine the fiasco it would create in a court of law if ever the German prisoner or the McCanns were ever brought before the beak?

It's laughable.

by Guest 16.06.20 17:03

Is that just a 'no' then or an emphatic 'no'?

by sallypelt 16.06.20 17:05

Scotland Yard today insisted that the disappearance of [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] remained a “[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]” inquiry despite the revelation today that a German prosecutor had written to her parents saying that she is dead.

by sar 16.06.20 17:07

sharonl wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Here he is

Jim Gamble's cousin?

by talby66 16.06.20 17:13

Doug D wrote:Talby66:

If he'd stumbled upon that I would have thought he could easily trade a bit of "robbing" for the information leading to a reward of £1m.

The big money was for the ‘safe return’.

Cookiemuncher:

‘Or perhaps there was some blackmailing going on "I know what you know"........’

That could fit better. Payoff better than small reward?

Cookiemuncher:

I would have thought there would be hundreds of other apartments/villas for him to rob, not one that he found a dying child in.

Didn’t mean he would go back to 5a, just other apartments around the complex.

This is all purely conjecture. No evidence for any of it, the same as the ‘evidence’ that doesn’t exist to fit up the German patsy.

Thanks, I'd forgotten that, it's been a while! Maybe he could have found any 3 year old blond girl for them, they don't give the impression they cared much about Madeleine.

by talby66 16.06.20 17:15

cookiemuncher wrote:
talby66 wrote:
Doug D wrote:Trotters suggestion that CB was 'out on the rob' when he stumbled upon MM didn't have to be on the Thursday night.

Earlier in the week the settee could have been further away from the window, maybe to stop the kids climbing on it to try and look out and not therefore pushed back as in the PJ photos, giving a clear line of sight as soon as you tried to come in the lounge patio doors.

What if it had been say, Sunday night', it obviously spooked him, he wouldn't have even to have actually entered the apartment, hence no DNA, but then not hearing anything on the news for a few days, he decided to try his luck somewhere else around the OC complex again on the Thursday, which would account for him being in the right vicinity.

Just thinking out loud really.
If he'd stumbled upon that I would have thought he could easily trade a bit of "robbing" for the information leading to a reward of £1m.
Or perhaps there was some blackmailing going on "I know what you know"........

He might as well have a go at blackmail, it looks like he's tried everything else, it would round off his cv nicely.

by cookiemuncher 16.06.20 17:25

talby66 wrote:
Doug D wrote:Talby66:

If he'd stumbled upon that I would have thought he could easily trade a bit of "robbing" for the information leading to a reward of £1m.

The big money was for the ‘safe return’.

Cookiemuncher:

‘Or perhaps there was some blackmailing going on "I know what you know"........’

That could fit better. Payoff better than small reward?

Cookiemuncher:

I would have thought there would be hundreds of other apartments/villas for him to rob, not one that he found a dying child in.

Didn’t mean he would go back to 5a, just other apartments around the complex.

This is all purely conjecture. No evidence for any of it, the same as the ‘evidence’ that doesn’t exist to fit up the German patsy.
Thanks, I'd forgotten that, it's been a while! Maybe he could have found any 3 year old blond girl for them, they don't give the impression they cared much about Madeleine.

"They don't give the impression they care much about Madeleine".

That reminds me that one of the 48 questions that Kate McCann refused to answer for the PJ was -

"Were you thinking of giving Madeleine away to a relative to bring up?"

(or words to that effect, the 48 questions are on the internet).

So where did the PJ get that question from? Had they been in touch with Social Services in the UK to find out if there were any problems with Madeleine and her parents? I doubt they would just throw a question in like that when there were no problems. The first thing police do when there is a missing child is contact social services to find out if there are underlying problems within the family.

by talby66 16.06.20 17:29

cookiemuncher wrote:
talby66 wrote:
Doug D wrote:Talby66:

If he'd stumbled upon that I would have thought he could easily trade a bit of "robbing" for the information leading to a reward of £1m.

The big money was for the ‘safe return’.

Cookiemuncher:

‘Or perhaps there was some blackmailing going on "I know what you know"........’

That could fit better. Payoff better than small reward?

Cookiemuncher:

I would have thought there would be hundreds of other apartments/villas for him to rob, not one that he found a dying child in.

Didn’t mean he would go back to 5a, just other apartments around the complex.

This is all purely conjecture. No evidence for any of it, the same as the ‘evidence’ that doesn’t exist to fit up the German patsy.
Thanks, I'd forgotten that, it's been a while! Maybe he could have found any 3 year old blond girl for them, they don't give the impression they cared much about Madeleine.

"They don't give the impression they care much about Madeleine".

That reminds me that one of the 48 questions that Kate McCann refused to answer for the PJ was -

"Were you thinking of giving Madeleine away to a relative to bring up?"

(or words to that effect, the 48 questions are on the internet).

So where did the PJ get that question from? Had they been in touch with Social Services in the UK to find out if there were any problems with Madeleine and her parents? I doubt they would just throw a question in like that when there were no problems. The first thing police do when there is a missing child is contact social services to find out if there are underlying problems within the family.

Yes indeed, a very odd question, add that to "she'll be giving them her tuppence worth".

by **sharonl** 16.06.20 17:37

According to Clarence, the McCanns were not wearing their watches and did not have their mobiles with them, so they would have been in the apartment. Also in the apartment would have been the cameras and maybe the syringes that were later found.

So within 3-4 minutes, this drug dealing burglar, breaks into the apartment, ignores all the valuables and rushes back out again having nicked nothing else but a corpse. nah

Unless he nicked a blue tennis bag and took it back to his farmhouse.

by cookiemuncher 16.06.20 17:43

sharonl wrote:According to Clarence, the McCanns were not wearing their watches and did not have their mobiles with them, so they would have been in the apartment. Also in the apartment would have been the cameras and maybe the syringes that were later found.

So within 3-4 minutes, this drug dealing burglar, breaks into the apartment, ignores all the valuables and rushes back out again having nicked nothing else but a corpse.

There were also 5 passports in the cabinet next to the McCanns' bed. They would have been worth a fortune on the black market (oops, am I allowed to say b l a ck ? )

There was the Cannon(?) camera sitting on the dining room table that any normal burglar would have scooped up as he/she walked passed it and put in their pocket and I'm sure they had many pockets in their clothes if they were professional burglars.

by cookiemuncher 16.06.20 17:53

sharonl wrote:According to Clarence, the McCanns were not wearing their watches and did not have their mobiles with them, so they would have been in the apartment. Also in the apartment would have been the cameras and maybe the syringes that were later found.

So within 3-4 minutes, this drug dealing burglar, breaks into the apartment, ignores all the valuables and rushes back out again having nicked nothing else but a corpse.

Unless he nicked a blue tennis bag and took it back to his farmhouse.

I want to ask the obvious about what was in the blue tennis bag, but I don't think I should........

But then it was back in the wardrobe when the PJ forensic photographers took photos but of course it doesn't mean that Madeleine went missing on 3rd May just because the McCanns and their "friends" said so.

by **Jill Havern** 16.06.20 17:58

cookiemuncher wrote:
Jill Havern wrote:
sallypelt wrote:Madeleine McCann: Police say other people will have 'concrete knowledge' of her disappearance. The BKA appeal said: "There is reason to assume that there are other persons, apart from the suspect, who have concrete knowledge of the course of the crime and maybe also of the place where the body was left."
Enter Stephen Birch and Murat's driveway again?

Just dig it up and be done with it for gawd's sake.
Jill

If Murat wasn't involved in Madeleine's death why would he help out her parents? I don't understand that logic, unless he was supplying drugs but why get yourself involved in the death of a child just for selling drugs. Surely you would fess up to supplying drugs rather than have the death of a child hanging over your head.

I do understand as Trotters said earlier that this German guy may have got into the apartment after the McCanns left and found Madeleine dying on the floor and was shocked and did a runner.

Perhaps if he was blackmailing them they made a pact that he would hide the body and get a good payout when they'd finished suing everyone, Amaral included, although that all went tits up when £50,000 was raised for Amaral's defence much to the McCanns' annoyance (although I think "annoyance" is too much of a mild term to use.)

If I was innocent in the death of a child but someone was continually accusing me all over social media of having her dead body under my driveway, I'd get it dug up.

Not to help the parents, but to clear my own name of any wrongdoing.

by cookiemuncher 16.06.20 18:07

Jill Havern wrote:
cookiemuncher wrote:
Jill Havern wrote:
sallypelt wrote:Madeleine McCann: Police say other people will have 'concrete knowledge' of her disappearance. The BKA appeal said: "There is reason to assume that there are other persons, apart from the suspect, who have concrete knowledge of the course of the crime and maybe also of the place where the body was left."
Enter Stephen Birch and Murat's driveway again?

Just dig it up and be done with it for gawd's sake.
Jill

If Murat wasn't involved in Madeleine's death why would he help out her parents? I don't understand that logic, unless he was supplying drugs but why get yourself involved in the death of a child just for selling drugs. Surely you would fess up to supplying drugs rather than have the death of a child hanging over your head.

I do understand as Trotters said earlier that this German guy may have got into the apartment after the McCanns left and found Madeleine dying on the floor and was shocked and did a runner.

Perhaps if he was blackmailing them they made a pact that he would hide the body and get a good payout when they'd finished suing everyone, Amaral included, although that all went tits up when £50,000 was raised for Amaral's defence much to the McCanns' annoyance (although I think "annoyance" is too much of a mild term to use.)
If I was innocent in the death of a child but someone was continually accusing me all over social media of having her dead body under my driveway, I'd get it dug up.

Not to help the parents, but to clear my own name of any wrongdoing.

Thanks for that, a voice of reason as usual. smilie

Didn't Murat already have his driveway dug up though a long time ago.

by **Jill Havern** 16.06.20 18:12

cookiemuncher wrote:Didn't Murat already have his driveway dug up though a long time ago.

Even more reason to have it dug up again then because who's to say it wasn't dug up to hide a body?

by **sharonl** 16.06.20 18:12

Whats bothering me at the moment is the references to these old farmhouses. Are they one and the same or were there two? The one owned by Bruckner and the one where Gerry and Russells' phones were traced to. If they are one and the same then Bruckner may have helped them by allowing them to use the property as an initial hiding place.

When we look at the some of the people who were in PDL and connected to the McCanns we can see why they may be pulling together to cover this up.

David Payne & Gerry McCann - Gaspar statements
Robert Murat - Illegal images on his PC
Christian Bruckner - convicted paedophile
Clement Freud - paedophile
Nannies - pole dancers
Allegations of swinging

by **sharonl** 16.06.20 18:19

cookiemuncher wrote:
sharonl wrote:According to Clarence, the McCanns were not wearing their watches and did not have their mobiles with them, so they would have been in the apartment. Also in the apartment would have been the cameras and maybe the syringes that were later found.

So within 3-4 minutes, this drug dealing burglar, breaks into the apartment, ignores all the valuables and rushes back out again having nicked nothing else but a corpse.
There were also 5 passports in the cabinet next to the McCanns' bed. They would have been worth a fortune on the black market (oops, am I allowed to say b l a ck ? )

There was the Cannon(?) camera sitting on the dining room table that any normal burglar would have scooped up as he/she walked passed it and put in their pocket and I'm sure they had many pockets in their clothes if they were professional burglars.

Didn't Gerry also have a laptop there?

by cookiemuncher 16.06.20 18:25

sharonl wrote:Whats bothering me at the moment is the references to these old farmhouses. Are they one and the same or were there two? The one owned by Bruckner and the one where Gerry and Russells' phones were traced to. If they are one and the same then Bruckner may have helped them by allowing them to use the property as an initial hiding place.

When we look at the some of the people who were in PDL and connected to the McCanns we can see why they may be pulling together to cover this up.

David Payne & Gerry McCann - Gaspar statements
Robert Murat - Illegal images on his PC
Christian Bruckner - convicted paedophile
Clement Freud - paedophile
Nannies - pole dancers
Allegations of swinging

Thanks Sharoni. Yes very good connections. You have a very astute mind.

There was also mention that John Major had connections in that area, huge connections in fact, and Cliff, I won't give his last name.

If my comment is offensive for the board please delete it.

by Guest 16.06.20 18:49

It does make me wonder if they knew about this man several years ago why did they not investigate him further at the time or has something else of greater significance come to light? KM said that she thought she had been framed and now it seems they are wanting to close this case and 'pin a tail on a patsy' As predicted by Goncal Amaral last year. Could this be the reason they might be denying having received the letter as, when faced with prospect of truly framing someone else they need a little time to digest it.

by Eastree27 16.06.20 19:02

John Major's connections are indirect via north Portugal.

by gilly 16.06.20 19:08

Another one that hasn't been answered was when they were filmed by another on holiday GM was spoken to 'why so miserable Gerry, we're on holiday' to which he replied 'I'm not here for a f***ing holiday' - what did he mean? What were they there for? Seen laughing hours after Maddie had 'gone' and vey rarely referring to her as my daughter , little girl, by name or endearing names.

Also to answer one earlier (sorry missed which one) Gordon Brown is related to the McCanns somehow too, that's how he's involved.

by sallypelt 16.06.20 19:12

Has there been any discussion on this forum about the mobile numbers that the German police have released, relating to the "mystery caller"?

I will put the numbers here so I won't have to keep looking for them:

(+351) 912 730 680, is believed to have been used by the suspect and received a call from another Portuguese mobile, (+351) 916 510 683, while in the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] area.
I have gone through some of the numbers mentioned in the PJ files, and the +351 prefix isn't listed. However, there are two numbers where the first three numbers (without the prefix numbers) that start with the numbers 912 and another number that starts with 916. I know that this is clutching at straws, but now that the German police have released these two numbers, no stone can be left unturned.

This is taken from the WITNESS STATEMENT OF ARGUIDO: ROBERT MURAT

These are just some of the numbers listed, from a long list of numbers, where the first three numbers give, correspond with the numbers released by the German police. I have highlighted the 912 and the 916 numbers

Vital Rxxxxxx VR 912..., mobile of a Jehovah's Witness whom he met through Michaela, name Vital Rxxxxxx, resident in Lagos, with whom he does not maintain close contact;
Manuel Mxxx MM: 914... mobile of Mr Manuel Mxxx, whom he met professionally and with whom he has met about twice;
Serge S: 914..., mobile of Sergey Malinca with whom he maintains a professional relationship;
Ricardo Hxxx RH: 914..., mobile of Ricardo Hxxxxxxxx, a former colleague in Remax, currently not in contact with him;
Sara Nxxxx SN: 916..., mobile of a colleague in Remax with whom he has no current relationship;
Nuno Bxxxxx NB: 916..., mobile of Nuno Bxxxxx, married to the former manager of Remax in Lagos, with whom he was a friend but currently not in contact;

James 916... a former colleague of Remax who is not related.

There are a few more numbers on the list, but I'll put the link if anyone wants to see the full list of numbers

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by cookiemuncher 16.06.20 19:18

gilly wrote:Another one that hasn't been answered was when they were filmed by another on holiday GM was spoken to 'why so miserable Gerry, we're on holiday' to which he replied 'I'm not here for a f***ing holiday' - what did he mean? What were they there for? Seen laughing hours after Maddie had 'gone' and vey rarely referring to her as my daughter , little girl, by name or endearing names.

Also to answer one earlier (sorry missed which one) Gordon Brown is related to the McCanns somehow too, that's how he's involved.

It was on a coach at an airport transfer. Gerry said "I'm not here to f*cking enjoy myself".

Yes, it's very telling that they don't refer to Madeleine as their precious child, as most parents would, but "a girl" or other hard, cold adjectives.

It's also telling that Gerry McCann mentioned that they've never referred to Madeleine as "Maddy/Maddie", yet in his blog he had when Madeleine was first born he mentioned that they have a daughter Maddy/Maddie".

Oooh Gerry, you need to have a good memory to be a good liar, son, we sussed you out a long time ago.

by gilly 16.06.20 19:36

They're so cold, a bad liars but it's just overlooked. Why were they there if not to enjoy themselves I wonder?

by sallypelt 16.06.20 19:55

I really need to concentrate on one thing at a time, in my life. My brain isn't as active as it once was, so I should stop overloading it duh

I have now discovered that it's already known who owned the mobile numbers, released by the German police.

Jornal de Noticias said the number Christian B was called from (+351) 916 510 683 was registered to a man called Diogo Silva, which is a common name in Portugal.

Christian B, thought to have been using the other mobile officers have made public — (+351) 912730680 — was in the resort where Madeleine vanished.

So, that's that!

by cookiemuncher 16.06.20 20:09

sharonl wrote:
cookiemuncher wrote:
sharonl wrote:According to Clarence, the McCanns were not wearing their watches and did not have their mobiles with them, so they would have been in the apartment. Also in the apartment would have been the cameras and maybe the syringes that were later found.

So within 3-4 minutes, this drug dealing burglar, breaks into the apartment, ignores all the valuables and rushes back out again having nicked nothing else but a corpse.
There were also 5 passports in the cabinet next to the McCanns' bed. They would have been worth a fortune on the black market (oops, am I allowed to say b l a ck ? )

There was the Cannon(?) camera sitting on the dining room table that any normal burglar would have scooped up as he/she walked passed it and put in their pocket and I'm sure they had many pockets in their clothes if they were professional burglars.

Didn't Gerry also have a laptop there?

Yes, he did. Probably the same one he was using when he and the PJ were sitting by the phones waiting for a caller who knew the whereabouts of Madeleine. Whilst the PJ were on tenterhooks and their stomachs in knots good ole brave Gerry was sucking on a chlld's lollypop watching a football match apparently.

Of course, if there was no break in then Gerry still had that same laptop, as they still had that Cannon camera on the dining room table, which took them about a week to get any up to date photos off it of Madeleine to circulate to the press but found one of her about a year younger. The one that one of the nannies managed to photocopy on to postage card size cards, the printer that then mysteriously vanished to her boyfriend's place somewhere in Europe never to be seen again so that the PJ could examine it.

The latest McCann suspect: Scotland Yard has revealed vital new information about a suspect wanted in connection with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.