Re: The latest McCann suspect: Scotland Yard has revealed vital new information about a suspect wanted in connection with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

by Liz Eagles 15.06.20 21:55

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Stantheman

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Campervanman

The best Laurel and Hardy example to post is the washing up.

by Guest 15.06.20 22:02

by Guest 15.06.20 22:12

Are any forum members Sons of the Desert?

by sammyc 15.06.20 22:22

Latest article from the Express online updated 22.06 today saying the prosecutor in the Madeleine McCann case has written to her parents to confirm she has been murdered but he 'can't say why' he knows. Get ready for the usual avalanche of press/news stories.

by **sharonl** 15.06.20 22:36

He knows that she has been murdered but there is no evidence against the suspect?

thinking

What on earth is this guy up to?

Either the whole thing is pure fabrication, he is working to find a patsy for the McCanns or he is looking at the dogs evidence.

Where on earth does Bruckner fit in?

Where was the farmhouse where Gerry and Russells phones were traced? Could that be Bruckners property?

by **sharonl** 15.06.20 22:56

sandancer wrote:
sharonl wrote:
sandancer wrote:Many people " confessed to a friend in a bar " they knew about Madeleines disappearance !

The difference is they'd read the PJ Files .

Get ready folks , we're all suspects

Without any REAL EVIDENCE of course

Did you have a mobile phone back in 2007 Sandancer? If you did, you're a suspect.

Having a daughter who works for a mobile phone company I'm sure she'd be able to get rid of anything that might incriminate me !

I didn't have a campervan or a Jaguar , can't drive !

Would that rule me out ?

Nah, they haven't recycled the Madeleine in a taxi story yet, besides Jane Tanner saw one of the many abductors on foot.

by sammyc 15.06.20 22:58

SharonL - was a vehicle seen at that farmhouse where the Aztec blanket and other bits were found? What was the story about someone seeing a couple I think with a van and looking as though they are getting rid of something? I've read that much over the years I have forgotten half of it or it has been skewed and/or swerved off the trail but the early days and months of Madeleine going missing stay in my mind.

by sallypelt 15.06.20 23:03

Blood on towel may be from Madeleine

Sunday Express
By Matt Drake in Praia da Luz and James Murray
2 December 2007

THE hunt for Madeleine McCann was last night centred on a disused barn near Praia da Luz, where police found a towel possibly stained with the fouryear-old's blood.

Fibres found on the towel allegedly match fibres from the hire car rented by Maddie's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann.

Portuguese detectives discussed the breakthrough when they met police and a Crown Prosecution Service official last week in Leicester.

Today, for the first time, the Sunday Express can shed light on the new avenue police are pursuing in the hope of a breakthrough in the baffling case.

Based on fresh information from a mobile phone surveillance, police began a search of an area in the south east of the resort.

They came across a towel, with an Aztec design, by a disused barn in a remote area near Praia da Luz.

Portuguese sources say forensic scientists used a substance called luminol to look for blood deposits and found three sites on the edges of the towel.

From the sites they tested the blood deposits to see if there was a match with Madeleine McCann's DNA.

Although the samples were not good quality the scientists were able to do what is called low copy analysis which showed there was "moderate" support to suggest the deposits matched Madeleine's blood.

The results were not conclusive and are not regarded as being strong enough to be presented as evidence in any court case.

But close analysis of the towel revealed fibres which were not made of the towel material.

Portuguese police sources say there was "strong support" that the fibres found on the towel matched fibres from the boot of the car.

One possibility being considered by the Portuguese detectives was that the towel had at some point been in the boot of the Renault Scenic car, which would explain how fibres had got on it.

Meanwhile, a close friend of Kate and Gerry McCann who was holidaying with them when Madeleine vanished will be questioned by Portuguese police this week over a "mystery' phone call.

Dr Russell O'Brien, 36, has come under investigation after a team of telephone surveillance officers highlighted a mobile call made to the missing four-year-old's father more than a month after she disappeared.

Portuguese detectives are now working on the theory that a call made between Gerry McCann, 39, and Dr O'Brien is the missing link that could help them find Madeleine's body.

Investigators are focussing their inquiry on the exact whereabouts of Dr O'Brien when the call was made on June 10.

Gerry McCann said the call was made within four kilometres of the Mark Warner resort.

But technicians have now dismissed his claim after examining data records taken from specified areas near to where the child went missing.

It is understood key words aroused police suspicions.

disused barn near Praia da Luz

Fibres found on the towel allegedly match fibres from the hire car rented by Maddie's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann.
Based on fresh information from a mobile phone surveillance, police began a search of an area in the south east of the resort.

The fibre fragments were microscopically examined against fibres found in the boot of the Renault Scenic car hired by the McCanns 25 days after Maddie vanished.
Portuguese police sources say there was "strong support" that the fibres found on the towel matched fibres from the boot of the car.
Meanwhile, a close friend of Kate and Gerry McCann who was holidaying with them when Madeleine vanished will be questioned by Portuguese police this week over a "mystery' phone call.
Portuguese detectives are now working on the theory that a call made between Gerry McCann, 39, and Dr O'Brien is the missing link that could help them find Madeleine's body.

by sallypelt 15.06.20 23:12

DECEMBER 2007

Portuguese detectives are now working on the theory that a call made between Gerry McCann, 39, and Dr O'Brien is the missing link that could help them find Madeleine's body.

by sallypelt 15.06.20 23:16

Those pesky dogs!

by **sharonl** 15.06.20 23:39

The article about the dis-used barn appeared in the Express but was quickly whooshed

From memory, there was a centre page report which referred to some old wells and an old mine which was deemed to dangerous to access.

by sallypelt 15.06.20 23:52

I don't know if this has already been posted:

German police hunt letters suspect Christian Brueckner may have written mentioning Madeleine McCann
German detectives now believe the prime suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann wrote letters which mention her, as Portuguese police continue to probe whether her body was dumped in a well after she went missing.

Full article: https://expressinformer.com/german-police-hunt-letters-suspect-christian-brueckner-may-have-written-mentioning-madeleine-mccann/

Also, in the December 2007 article I posted earlier, it said:
It is understood key words aroused police suspicions.

Gerry McCann said the call was made within four kilometres of the Mark Warner resort.

Fast foward to the June 2020 article (link provided) it states:

SOL did not make it clear which house it was referring to when it said wells near Brueckner’s old property had been investigated. But it is believed to have been referring to a rented ramshackle cottage just under two miles from the Praia da Luz apartment where Maddie went missing in May 2007

4 kilometres = 2.4 miles.

Is this the farmhouse where the bloody towel was found? And was this where O'Brien made a call from, to Gerry McCann?

by Silverspeed 15.06.20 23:53

Sky News are now also running with the story, saying that German prosecutors have written to the McCann's to confirm their daughter is dead, but will not disclose details of the evidence.
If this is true, surely they wouldn't write to the McCann's unless they were sure about this.
Could just be the usual media nonsense of course.

by **sandancer** 15.06.20 23:53

Madeleine was abducted , we think by the latest suspect , but we don't know so we need members of the public to get in touch .
We think she's dead , but we don't know so we need members of the public and anyone who met the latest suspect in a bar to contact us . We know she's dead , but then she might not be , that's just my opinion .
Err you know , she might still be alive , but we don't know , there's only circumstantial evidence , Actually , there's no evidence , so we need help from anyone at all .

We think possibly the latest suspect , who isn't talking is involved , but we don't know because we haven't spoken to him yet because he's not talking to us !
So this is what we know , it's also what we don't know but we definitely know something , we just don't know what it is yet .
Got that ? It's clear really !
Now anyone with any evidence , please get in contact with the media they'll spread the word , let's get the word out there someone somewhere knows something and that's what we need to know .

Clear as mud isn't it blah

$i don\'t know$

by **Jill Havern** 15.06.20 23:54

sharonl wrote:The article about the dis-used barn appeared in the Express but was quickly whooshed

From memory, there was a centre page report which referred to some old wells and an old mine which was deemed to dangerous to access.

We've got an old thread about the disused barn. I haven't read through it, but there might just be some info in there that's useful:

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by **Jill Havern** 15.06.20 23:57

Here you go - is this it?

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by sallypelt 15.06.20 23:58

sandancer wrote:Madeleine was abducted , we think by the latest suspect , but we don't know so we need members of the public to get in touch .
We think she's dead , but we don't know so we need members of the public and anyone who met the latest suspect in a bar to contact us . We know she's dead , but then she might not be , that's just my opinion .
Err you know , she might still be alive , but we don't know , there's only circumstantial evidence , Actually , there's no evidence , so we need help from anyone at all .

We think possibly the latest suspect , who isn't talking is involved , but we don't know because we haven't spoken to him yet because he's not talking to us !
So this is what we know , it's also what we don't know but we definitely know something , we just don't know what it is yet .
Got that ? It's clear really !
Now anyone with any evidence , please get in contact with the media they'll spread the word , let's get the word out there someone somewhere knows something and that's what we need to know .

Clear as mud isn't it $i don\'t know$

Someone has been at the bottle.

by **Jill Havern** 16.06.20 0:04

sandancer wrote:Madeleine was abducted , we think by the latest suspect , but we don't know so we need members of the public to get in touch .
We think she's dead , but we don't know so we need members of the public and anyone who met the latest suspect in a bar to contact us . We know she's dead , but then she might not be , that's just my opinion .
Err you know , she might still be alive , but we don't know , there's only circumstantial evidence , Actually , there's no evidence , so we need help from anyone at all .

We think possibly the latest suspect , who isn't talking is involved , but we don't know because we haven't spoken to him yet because he's not talking to us !
So this is what we know , it's also what we don't know but we definitely know something , we just don't know what it is yet .
Got that ? It's clear really !
Now anyone with any evidence , please get in contact with the media they'll spread the word , let's get the word out there someone somewhere knows something and that's what we need to know .

Clear as mud isn't it $i don\'t know$

Post of the day award goes to sandancer!

by sallypelt 16.06.20 0:28

The Judicial Police was yesterday considering searching the abandoned shafts in Praia da Luz for Madeleine's body, according to Portuguese newspaper Sol.
Officers earlier this month were understood to be looking to dig up land around two houses Brueckner lived in while in Praia da Luz.
The other building sits on a hill above the resort, about 11 minutes away from the Ocean Club the McCanns were staying.
A Portuguese source told the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]: 'Judicial Police have confirmed they have been approached by German authorities in connection with the case and they will undoubtedly be prepared to carry out fresh searches in the hope of giving the McCanns closure.
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by Silverspeed 16.06.20 0:51

Tony Bennett wrote:
Eastree27 wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Mirror Breaking News - BREAKING Madeleine McCann could be alive admits German prosecutor who said she was dead

Does anyone on this forum think the German involvement in this case is anything but yet another charade, this time orchestrated right from the top of the German government, and its security arm, to continue the abduction narrative?

Just like the work of Leicestershire Police, Matt Baggott's Gold Group, MI5, Control Risks Group and of course Operation Grange?

In other words, is the prosecuting head of this German investigation being paid, or otherwise rewarded, for taking part in this international web of deceit?

Have Andy Redwood, Nicola Wall and Mark Cranwell all been bought and paid for? - in other words, sold their souls for thirty pieces of silver?

And WHAT terrible thing have they all been covering up for the past 13 years and 3 months?

I don't think they have any evidence whatsoever that Bruckner is involved. Each story that appears contradicts the previous one as most of it is nonsense. However one thought has crossed my mind. Is there any possibility that Bruckner happened to see something that night? Does he know what happened to Madeleine but wasn't actually involved?

by sallypelt 16.06.20 0:58

The Judicial Police was yesterday considering searching the abandoned shafts in Praia da Luz for Madeleine's body, according to Portuguese newspaper Sol.

Officers earlier this month were understood to be looking to dig up land around two houses Brueckner lived in while in Praia da Luz.

The other building sits on a hill above the resort, about 11 minutes away from the Ocean Club the McCanns were staying.

A Portuguese source told the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]: 'Judicial Police have confirmed they have been approached by German authorities in connection with the case and they will undoubtedly be prepared to carry out fresh searches in the hope of giving the McCanns closure.

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Reading through a few articles on these later "developments", many are saying there's "no concrete evidence that [size=13]Brueckner was in the immediate vicinity of the crime scene on the day of the crime.' So, reading between the lines of the various articles, Brueckner isn't responsible for the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. So, the question is, did he help dispose of her body? Has Dr Amaral has been correct all along, when he said that Madeleine's body had been stored and kept somewhere and disposed of at a later date? Could it be the body was disposed of, around the time O'Brien made a phone call to Gerry McCann, from what many believe, was the abandoned farmhouse "4 kilometres" away, on the 10th of June. The McCanns hired a car on 28 May. [/size]

Now WHERE did I put that big blue bag?

by Guest 16.06.20 0:58

Madeleine McCann's parents sent letter from police saying toddler was murdered

Prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters, who is leading the investigation into Christian Brueckner, has written to Madeleine McCann's parents to confirm she was murdered – but he “can’t say why” he knows

ByMartin Fricker
Andy Lines

22:03, 15 JUN 2020Updated23:22, 15 JUN 2020

The prosecutor in the Madeleine McCann probe has written to her parents to confirm she was murdered – but he “can’t say why” he knows.

Hans Christian Wolters is leading the investigation into Christian Brueckner, 43 – the man named as the main suspect in Maddie’s disappearance.

He said there has been an increasing exchange of information between the German team, Scotland Yard and Portugal but admitted “not every detail has been passed on”.

Speaking from his office in the German city of Braunschweig, Mr Wolters told the Mirror: “We have re-established contact with the McCann family in writing.

"We, of course, really consider the fact that it is going to be very hard for the family when we tell them we assume Madeline is dead.

“But we can’t say why she is dead.

"It is more important that we are successful and we are able to get the culprit, as opposed to just putting our cards on the table and tell them why we think she might be.”

Gerry and Kate McCann, both 52, are being kept updated as the investigation into Brueckner continues.

Their Portuguese lawyer Rogerio Alves is to meet Portuguese detectives this week.

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....................

Okay, you've made your point - Operation Grange has the green light to continue for the unforeseeable future. It's getting boring.

Is this clown, Oliver Hardy, supposed to be a professional?

Dear Mr and Mrs McCann.

There is no easy way to say this but I have every reason to believe your daughter Madeleine is dead. Please don't take this the wrong way, be assured my intentions are good.

I can't say any more at this juncture but I'll keep you posted. If you have any questions, please don't ask.

Meanwhile, try not to worry, I'm sure it's not as bad as it seems.

Kind Regards.

Herr Flicker

by sallypelt 16.06.20 1:05

Verdi wrote:Madeleine McCann's parents sent letter from police saying toddler was murdered

Prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters, who is leading the investigation into Christian Brueckner, has written to Madeleine McCann's parents to confirm she was murdered – but he “can’t say why” he knows

ByMartin Fricker
Andy Lines

22:03, 15 JUN 2020Updated23:22, 15 JUN 2020

The prosecutor in the Madeleine McCann probe has written to her parents to confirm she was murdered – but he “can’t say why” he knows.

Hans Christian Wolters is leading the investigation into Christian Brueckner, 43 – the man named as the main suspect in Maddie’s disappearance.

He said there has been an increasing exchange of information between the German team, Scotland Yard and Portugal but admitted “not every detail has been passed on”.

Speaking from his office in the German city of Braunschweig, Mr Wolters told the Mirror: “We have re-established contact with the McCann family in writing.

"We, of course, really consider the fact that it is going to be very hard for the family when we tell them we assume Madeline is dead.

“But we can’t say why she is dead.

"It is more important that we are successful and we are able to get the culprit, as opposed to just putting our cards on the table and tell them why we think she might be.”

Gerry and Kate McCann, both 52, are being kept updated as the investigation into Brueckner continues.

Their Portuguese lawyer Rogerio Alves is to meet Portuguese detectives this week.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
....................

Okay, you've made your point - Operation Grange has the green light to continue for the unforeseeable future. It's getting boring.

Is this clown, Oliver Hardy, supposed to be a professional?

Dear Mr and Mrs McCann.

There is no easy way to say this but I have every reason to believe your daughter Madeleine is dead. Please don't take this the wrong way, be assured my intentions are good.

I can't say any more at this juncture but I'll keep you posted. If you have any questions, please don't ask.

Meanwhile, try not to worry, I'm sure it's not as bad as it seems.

Kind Regards.

Herr Flicker

"If you have any questions, please don't ask".

"Meanwhile, try not to worry, I'm sure it's not as bad as it seems".

Bless! It's the wee hours of the morning. Cut him some slack.

by Guest 16.06.20 1:11

German prosecutors 'tell Madeleine McCann's parents she's dead but do not reveal details'

Sean Morrison
6 minutes ago

German police have written to the parents of Madeleine McCann to confirm she is dead but said they cannot confirm how they know, according to reports.

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It will be interesting to see how the 'source close to' reacts to this

.

by Guest 16.06.20 1:26

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by Silverspeed 16.06.20 1:40

Verdi wrote: German prosecutors 'tell Madeleine McCann's parents she's dead but do not reveal details'

Sean Morrison
6 minutes ago

German police have written to the parents of Madeleine McCann to confirm she is dead but said they cannot confirm how they know, according to reports.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It will be interesting to see how the 'source close to' reacts to this .

The Sun have quoted him as saying this Verdi.

[size=45]Clarence Mitchell, the McCann family spokesman, said today: “Kate and Gerry simply do not comment on private correspondence received from police and nor will they be giving a running commentary."[/size]

by Guest 16.06.20 2:03

What

? Ta, I missed that!

.. nor will they be giving a running commentary - that's the stock phrase of Operation Grange isn't it?

Okay it's not private correspondence from the police but ever so slightly up the pecking order ..

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I guess it's a matter of who and what rather than who and what ....

by jazega 16.06.20 3:44

sallypelt wrote:DECEMBER 2007

Portuguese detectives are now working on the theory that a call made between Gerry McCann, 39, and Dr O'Brien is the missing link that could help them find Madeleine's body.

Was RO'B ever questioned by the PJ why he was at that location and what was he doing there ?
Thanks in advance

by Doug D 16.06.20 5:08

What a difference a couple of days makes.

Last week we had the 'feed bodies to pigs to make them disappear' stories and now we're back to old wells and mineshafts.

And Herr Flick still throws in his 'get out of jail free' card with the 'assume' in the latest reported statements.

by talby66 16.06.20 6:15

Here’s my take on Christian Brueckner

He can be one of three things:
Totally uninvolved
Uninvolved but knows something
Involved

Totally uninvolved
no need to elaborate

Uninvolved but knows something
very unlikely since surely he would have tried to gain from the various rewards on offer. He would also have tried to use this “knowledge” to get out of jail with a deal.

Involved

He could be an independent abductor with no connection to the McCanns or the tapas group. If he was then I think we’d have to accept that he did it on the evening of the 3rd but then the “evidence” of the dogs would have to be discounted since, firstly, he’s unlikely to kill a child in the house and then take the body away with him and secondly there wouldn’t have been enough time for the cadaver odour to be created. In addition he left no evidence behind, neither a break in nor fingerprints nor dna and he managed to get clean away and “dispose” of Madeleine in a manner that she hasn’t currently been found. This would have had to happen between Gerry’s check just after 21:00 and Kate’s at 22:00 (ignoring the bizarre Oldfield “didn’t see Maddie” which in itself is unbelievable). He would have to contend with the “checking system” and then a search taking place and keep it all very quiet from any pals, with such a large reward on offer I wouldn’t think any friendship would last. His car and camper van have shown nothing. Even ignoring all the McCann’s and friends’ lies, failure to answer questions and downright bizarre behaviour it is not credible.

He could have been involved in the disposal of the body. For this to happen someone has to contact him, who could that have been, Murat? it seems unlikely that Gerry would do it (just imagine, hi, you don’t know me but I’ll pay you to get rid of my dead daughter) and then he has to be paid. I’ve seen no suggestion that he came into any money nor that the McCanns withdrew a large enough amount to persuade someone to do this (someone else could have but the more people involved the more likely someone cracks). All of that is unlikely to have been able to be arranged on the evening of the 3rd so puts Payne and Oldfield firmly in the frame (along with the McCanns) because of their statements (Oldfield tries to get out of it but surely it’s not believable that he “didn’t see her”). Once it’s before the 3rd the cadaver scent can develop. But there is still a problem of the cadaver scent, if you paid someone to dispose of a body you wouldn’t expect to get involved with it again so the hire car and key fob don’t fit the bill (I’ve seen it said that could come from something else already contaminated, maybe). If he was involved “only” with the disposal it seems unlikely to me that he wouldn’t try to do a deal to get the reward (£1m at the start if I remember correctly) or even tip a “mate” off to claim it hoping to share it later. Remember Gerry’s “find the body and prove we killed her”, that sounds to me like he knows it cannot be found which if the task was given to someone else he couldn’t be sure about. Given the McCanns seemed to get massive government, police and (maybe) MI5 type support why would they have got them to deal with the “problem”? Let’s assume that CB did do this and then kept quiet, wouldn’t he try to use it now to get out of prison? On the basis that we’ve been told he’s saying nothing (that could be lies) and things would have moved faster if he had told them “vital details” that doesn’t appear to be what’s happened.

There seem to be too many lies, contradictions and very loose ends to tie up for me to believe anything other than he wasn’t involved.

If they are genuinely going to search any wells around his old property (he was known to the PJ who had discounted him) I would get some dogs back and check 5A again, if different dogs found something it would be damning, I accept if they didn’t he may give a defence a helping hand. I would also use the dogs around the wells and his property, it may speed things up.

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