Leics Police and the McCanns' website - LINK WITHDRAWN AND THEN RESTORED

by **Tony Bennett** 07.09.10 8:03

These were The Madeleine Foundation's concerns about Leics Police linking to the McCanns' website, as we set out in our letter to the former Home Secretray, Alan Johnson, on 12 March 2010:

QUOTE

Why before, during and after the time the McCanns were ‘arguidos’ (which the McCanns insist means ‘persons of interest’ but is more usually translated ‘suspects’), did Leicestershire Police:

(i) Link their website to the McCanns’ fund-raising website, and

(ii) In doing so, encourage those who might have relevant information, to give this not to Leicestershire Police nor to the Portuguese Police, but to the McCanns’ own team of private investigators?

In the view of many, this set a dangerous and wholly new precedent in the history of criminal investigations anywhere in the world. A police force, openly and in a high profile manner, invited the public to donate to the fund-raising campaign of two suspects in a serious criminal investigation and helped them by diverting people who wished to supply information away from official police investigators and to their own private investigators, some of whose controversial history we have demonstrated above.

UNQUOTE

Now, the Leics Police web-page linking to the McCanns' website has disappeared, and the only message that we get now is as follows:

QUOTE

The form cannot be used for communicating information regarding Madeleine McCann.

If you have messages of support for Madeleine's family please visit [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

If you have any other information please call Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111.

UNQUOTE

That's a modest but significant step in our direction.

But should the British Embassy, University Hospitals of Leicester and CEOP still be linking to the 'Find Madeleine Fund'?

by kangdang 07.09.10 10:51

The letter to Johnson... please refresh my memory, did you ever get a reply Tony? If so, did it address the LP concerns.

by littlepixie 07.09.10 11:06

"In the view of many, this set a dangerous and wholly new precedent in the history of criminal investigations anywhere in the world. A police force, openly and in a high profile manner, invited the public to donate to the fund-raising campaign of two suspects in a serious criminal investigation and helped them by diverting people who wished to supply information away from official police investigators and to their own private investigators, some of whose controversial history we have demonstrated above.[b][i]

Every time I read this - I still cannot believe that Leicestershire Police did it. I hope one day that those Police Officers responsible are brought to book publically for aiding and abetting suspects in a case.

by Guest 07.09.10 11:07

It seems like your letter has done some good then Tony. None of those other bodies mentioned should have any link on their sites, unless, of course, they want to end up with egg on their faces. imo Leicestershire Police have dropped themselves in it big time, you would think they have already embarrassed the Police Force enough with the goings on within that force which have hit the headlines before, they really need to get their house in order, unless they are still too busy viewing porn sites when they should be out working!

by Irish Eyes 07.09.10 18:30

If Madeleine's name has been removed from the missing persons list that means she's been found then? So why aren't the media reporting this?

by littlepixie 07.09.10 21:08

I don't know if it means anything or not Maddies name being removed. Usually there are a few people on GMP missing persons section and now there is only one. There are other people on the LP website who have been missing longer than Maddie and their names are still there.

Does it mean she is no longer classed as missing? As Irish Eyes stated does it mean she has been found? or does it mean that she is being declared as deceased.

by **Tony Bennett** 07.09.10 21:24

kangdang wrote:The letter to Johnson... please refresh my memory, did you ever get a reply Tony? If so, did it address the LP concerns.

Briefly, after quite a while, I got a letter saying that they had passed my letter to the Foreign Office (!).

I wrote back to both the Home Secretary and the Foreign Secretary objecting strongly - as all my subjects of concern were the Home Office's responsibility - and got a letter back saying, in terms: "Oh dear, yes you're right, our mistake, I'll send your letter back to the Home Secretary and he will reply".

No reply has ever come and in due course, if I don't get one, I shall write to the new Home Secretary.

Meanwhile (see elsewhere on this forum), it is very nearly 6 months since I asked 12 fairly straightforward factual questions about the McCanns' dealings with the Home Office, using the Freedom of Information Act. The law requires FOI departments to respond within a 20-working-day timetable where practicable. There was nothing 'impracticable' about giving me a decision one way or another within 20 days, but they wrote saying that they were having to take 'legal advice' about whether or not to answer my questions (!).

I'm still waiting BOTH for a reply to my Home Office letter of 12 March 2010 and my 12 FOI questions of 19 March 2010.

by Judge Mental 07.09.10 21:30

Irish Eyes wrote:If Madeleine's name has been removed from the missing persons list that means she's been found then? So why aren't the media reporting this?

@ Irish Eyes

The media cannot act before taking a press release from Mitchell. Tonight is his Bingo night and one is led to believe that he has a pressing breakfast meeting tomorrow with a number of Home Office staff who have been getting rather twitchy about their jobs being put on the line due to acts of gross misconduct. One will keep you posted on a need to know basis. My CB has been playing up all day and one can barely hack into the Home Secretary's private office through this new fangled machine that is supposed to access all areas.

As hard as one tries, one cannot understand any of Andy Coulson's instructions. He has written along the bottom of this note, that this is strictly confidential information, therefore one would suggest that you do not copy and paste this onto sites that still believe Madeleine is alive and living in joy with a couple who wanted her even more than her parents did. This information must stay absolutely within the bounds of reasonable posters.

One is watching your next move Irish Eyes. Send my kindest regards to Draco wherever he is, and tell him he need not be embarrassed at my turning down his advances, it is simply that Ruby turned my head first with her delectable hams and her laden bread baskets.

by kangdang 07.09.10 21:51

Tony Bennett wrote:
kangdang wrote:The letter to Johnson... please refresh my memory, did you ever get a reply Tony? If so, did it address the LP concerns.
Briefly, after quite a while, I got a letter saying that they had passed my letter to the Foreign Office (!).

I wrote back to both the Home Secretary and the Foreign Secretary objecting strongly - as all my subjects of concern were the Home Office's responsibility - and got a letter back saying, in terms: "Oh dear, yes you're right, our mistake, I'll send your letter back to the Home Secretary and he will reply".

No reply has ever come and in due course, if I don't get one, I shall write to the new Home Secretary.

Meanwhile (see elsewhere on this forum), it is very nearly 6 months since I asked 12 fairly straightforward factual questions about the McCanns' dealings with the Home Office, using the Freedom of Information Act. The law requires FOI departments to respond within a 20-working-day timetable where practicable. There was nothing 'impracticable' about giving me a decision one way or another within 20 days, but they wrote saying that they were having to take 'legal advice' about whether or not to answer my questions (!).

I'm still waiting BOTH for a reply to my Home Office letter of 12 March 2010 and my 12 FOI questions of 19 March 2010.

Thank you.

Tony,

For reasons you have already raised you must push for answers on this issue. It matters not that the link has now been removed, it stood for many months undermining Portugal's official investigation - It’s very presence had the potential to further damage political relations. It is a national disgrace, it must be acknowledged as such and assurances must be given that it will never happen again.

by **Tony Bennett** 07.09.10 22:18

kangdang wrote:For reasons you have already raised you must push for answers on this issue [Home Office refusals to reply on matters re Leicestershire Police and to the FOI questions].

It matters not that the link has now been removed, it stood for many months undermining Portugal's official investigation - its very presence had the potential to further damage political relations. It is a national disgrace, it must be acknowledged as such and assurances must be given that it will never happen again.

I agree 100% with the sentiment. By the way, 'kangdang', I am open to correction, but I believe that the link on Leicestershire Police's website to the McCanns' fund-raising site was first placed on their 'Missing Persons' page in the summer of 2007 - and remained there until a few weeks ago at most - meaning it was up there for three years, not just 'many months'.

Calling it a 'national disgrace' is something akin to putting the cart before the horse, as it can only be deemed a national disgrace if it is first officially accepted (if it ever is) that the McCanns' account of what happened in Praia da Luz is not correct. If and when that were to happen, it wouldn't only be Leicestershire Police's conduct that was a national scandal; the whole case would become a monumental lesson to be learned by just about everyone in this country, and indeed the whole world.

DV, the letter to the Home Secretary and the 6-month failure to answer the FOI questions WILL be followed up ASAP, unfortunately 24 hours in a day never seems quite enough.

by ufercoffy 07.09.10 23:03

Tony Bennett wrote:DV, the letter to the Home Secretary and the 6-month failure to answer the FOI questions WILL be followed up ASAP, unfortunately 24 hours in a day never seems quite enough.

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by Judge Mental 08.09.10 0:06

Along with a public apology as soon as possible.

Britain is beginning to look like a renegade state. Most of Europe has been looking our way with distaste for many years, and Madeleine's alleged disappearance in Portugal raised many eyebrows, and not only those of the police, but the Portuguese people and other European nations who were receiving entirely different press reports through their media than those which we were being seen in the British media. Having recently seen the US quite rightly take issue over the Lockerbie bomber's release, one fears that it will only be a matter of time before we will have some very serious and real national security issues to deal with; the most important of which could leave us isolated during war time.

The UK is answerable to foreign nations whether the government likes it or not, but primarily the UK government is answerable to British residents who are sick and tired of asking why the Tapas 9 have escaped all questioning about their own actions during a period of time in which a three years child allegedly disappeared from an apartment in Portugal. Three and a half years later, we are still asking the same questions and the answers are still not forthcoming.

by kangdang 08.09.10 1:02

Tony Bennett wrote:
kangdang wrote:For reasons you have already raised you must push for answers on this issue [Home Office refusals to reply on matters re Leicestershire Police and to the FOI questions].

It matters not that the link has now been removed, it stood for many months undermining Portugal's official investigation - its very presence had the potential to further damage political relations. It is a national disgrace, it must be acknowledged as such and assurances must be given that it will never happen again.
I agree 100% with the sentiment. By the way, 'kangdang', I am open to correction, but I believe that the link on Leicestershire Police's website to the McCanns' fund-raising site was first placed on their 'Missing Persons' page in the summer of 2007 - and remained there until a few weeks ago at most - meaning it was up there for three years, not just 'many months'.

Calling it a 'national disgrace' is something akin to putting the cart before the horse, as it can only be deemed a national disgrace if it is first officially accepted (if it ever is) that the McCanns' account of what happened in Praia da Luz is not correct. If and when that were to happen, it wouldn't only be Leicestershire Police's conduct that was a national scandal; the whole case would become a monumental lesson to be learned by just about everyone in this country, and indeed the whole world.

DV, the letter to the Home Secretary and the 6-month failure to answer the FOI questions WILL be followed up ASAP, unfortunately 24 hours in a day never seems quite enough.

Perhaps so, but Leicestershire Police force effectively diverted potential witnesses in what is probably the worlds most publicised missing child case, to private detectives whom were working under the orders of Drs McCann - both of who were at one point named official suspects during the course of criminal investigation into the disappearance of their daughter.

Whilst Drs McCann were eventually relieved of their Arguido status, it has never been officially declared that they played no part in the disappearance of Madeleine. On the contrary, the process was archived due to insufficient evidence indicating their involvement; this does not mean that such evidence does not exist.

In a nutshell, a British police force responsible for coordinating the UK investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance, relaying information to and working with the Portuguese investigation team, showed overt disregard for not only the Portuguese counterparts, but for missing British minor Madeleine McCann by the displaying of the link. Not one government official stepped in to put a stop to this, despite many being in regular contact with the force. - On my terms I deem this a national disgrace.

by Judge Mental 08.09.10 2:03

One would wish to state that one sees this as an international disgrace, which will have repercussions for many years to come if simple questions remain unanswered.

by kangdang 08.09.10 7:13

Judge Mental wrote:One would wish to state that one sees this as an international disgrace, which will have repercussions for many years to come if simple questions remain unanswered.

Well one can go one better, as one states that ones sees this as a global disgrace....as despite the McCanns far reaching ~~lies~~ appeals, no beggar is yet to find Madeleine!

by **Tony Bennett** 08.09.10 8:53

kangdang wrote:...Leicestershire Police force effectively diverted potential witnesses in what is probably the worlds most publicised missing child case, to private detectives whom were working under the orders of Drs McCann - both of who were at one point named official suspects during the course of criminal investigation into the disappearance of their daughter.

Whilst Drs McCann were eventually relieved of their Arguido status, it has never been officially declared that they played no part in the disappearance of Madeleine. On the contrary, the process was archived due to insufficient evidence indicating their involvement; this does not mean that such evidence does not exist.

In a nutshell, a British police force responsible for coordinating the UK investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance, relaying information to and working with the Portuguese investigation team, showed overt disregard for not only the Portuguese counterparts, but for missing British minor Madeleine McCann by the displaying of the link. Not one government official stepped in to put a stop to this, despite many being in regular contact with the force. - On my terms I deem this a national disgrace.

It would be interesting to know which came first - Gordon Brown's surprise visit to Leicestershire* Police - or the placing of the link on Leicestershire Police's website to the McCanns' website.

* Historical footnote: Leicester was founded in around 450 B.C. by King Leir of the Britons - the King Lear of Shakespeare

by Judge Mental 08.09.10 17:14

Tony Bennett wrote:
kangdang wrote:...Leicestershire Police force effectively diverted potential witnesses in what is probably the worlds most publicised missing child case, to private detectives whom were working under the orders of Drs McCann - both of who were at one point named official suspects during the course of criminal investigation into the disappearance of their daughter.

Whilst Drs McCann were eventually relieved of their Arguido status, it has never been officially declared that they played no part in the disappearance of Madeleine. On the contrary, the process was archived due to insufficient evidence indicating their involvement; this does not mean that such evidence does not exist.

In a nutshell, a British police force responsible for coordinating the UK investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance, relaying information to and working with the Portuguese investigation team, showed overt disregard for not only the Portuguese counterparts, but for missing British minor Madeleine McCann by the displaying of the link. Not one government official stepped in to put a stop to this, despite many being in regular contact with the force. - On my terms I deem this a national disgrace.
It would be interesting to know which came first - Gordon Brown's surprise visit to Leicestershire* Police - or the placing of the link on Leicestershire Police's website to the McCanns' website.

* Historical footnote: Leicester was founded in around 450 B.C. by King Leir of the Britons - the King Lear of Shakespeare

Now, within that play there is a list of comparisons to be drawn big grin

Of course one is not implying this because it was full of trickery and deceit or wandering the streets with a body whilst contemplating purgatory.

lol!

by **Tony Bennett** 08.09.10 18:34

Judge Mental wrote:Now, within that play ['King Lear' - Shakespeare] there is a list of comparisons to be drawn. Of course one is not implying this because it was full of trickery and deceit or wandering the streets with a body whilst contemplating purgatory.

Although it is said that certain ancient traditions still live on in rural Leicestershire...

by Judge Mental 08.09.10 20:00

kangdang wrote:
Judge Mental wrote:One would wish to state that one sees this as an international disgrace, which will have repercussions for many years to come if simple questions remain unanswered.

Well one can go one better, as one states that ones sees this as a global disgrace....as despite the McCanns far reaching ~~lies~~ appeals, no beggar is yet to find Madeleine!

One will have to go one better again, and say that this is an intergalactic disgrace that will be justified on earth as it would have been done in Heaven. Albeit, this would have been brought to a halt some three years ago had Heaven intervened at that point..

by kangdang 08.09.10 20:28

by Judge Mental 08.09.10 21:13

Tony Bennett wrote:
Judge Mental wrote:Now, within that play ['King Lear' - Shakespeare] there is a list of comparisons to be drawn. Of course one is not implying this because it was full of trickery and deceit or wandering the streets with a body whilst contemplating purgatory.
Although it is said that certain ancient traditions still live on in rural Leicestershire...

Really? ~~Rites! Rite!~~ Right you are then. big grin

And is it also said that some of these people have taken their traditions on holiday with them at any point during the past few years?

by Judge Mental 08.09.10 21:20

Briefly, before Rainbow arrives to paint our world in vivid colouful hues, one would like to say that the above comments are not in any way a reference to Beltane or any other hocus-pocus that may or may not have been alluded to at various points in the history of this case.

It is of no consequence that Madeleine disappeared at a point in the Pagan and other calendars big grin

by Rainbow 08.09.10 22:57

by aiyoyo 09.09.10 1:14

Tony Bennett wrote:
kangdang wrote:...Leicestershire Police force effectively diverted potential witnesses in what is probably the worlds most publicised missing child case, to private detectives whom were working under the orders of Drs McCann - both of who were at one point named official suspects during the course of criminal investigation into the disappearance of their daughter.

Whilst Drs McCann were eventually relieved of their Arguido status, it has never been officially declared that they played no part in the disappearance of Madeleine. On the contrary, the process was archived due to insufficient evidence indicating their involvement; this does not mean that such evidence does not exist.

In a nutshell, a British police force responsible for coordinating the UK investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance, relaying information to and working with the Portuguese investigation team, showed overt disregard for not only the Portuguese counterparts, but for missing British minor Madeleine McCann by the displaying of the link. Not one government official stepped in to put a stop to this, despite many being in regular contact with the force. - On my terms I deem this a national disgrace.
It would be interesting to know which came first - Gordon Brown's surprise visit to Leicestershire* Police - or the placing of the link on Leicestershire Police's website to the McCanns' website.

* Historical footnote: Leicester was founded in around 450 B.C. by King Leir of the Britons - the King Lear of Shakespeare

Either way, all of them especially senior people involved in that shamble have got to be exposed to enable a shake up in the system. The culprits should be exposed and held up to light to world audience to shame them before any change can be constituted. This, no doubt is a long and extremely difficult process.

The person who instructed and the person who made the decision to link suspects to police website should be taken to task ,and made accountable for that dangerous precedent, which not only hampered the investigation but in fact showed fraternity-attitude with the suspects.
Maybe this does not constitute abetment in law, but is nonetheless foul play and unethical.

Removing it now which although a good thing came far too late for any sort of benefits to the case. The damages already done are irretrievable. Besides I believe people had stopped donated ages ago; especially after they were named 'official suspects'. The removal now suggests: the Home office and LP now acknowleded that can and will be be a sore point of contentious in the eventuality of a turn in event, and recognised that leaving it in would cause repercussions for them.

I am wondering could FOI questions be asked as to:
Did GB met with LP at the LP's HQs over the case?
Or, rather did LP discussed the link with GB?
If so, when did GP met with LP?
Whose decision was it to include the link?
When did the link officially appear online?
.........or questions along those lines.....

The HO may choose (doubtless very likely) to refuse to answer those, as people well know their track records for replying.... but at least it will go on records; as all letters/questions will be on their files.

by **Tony Bennett** 09.09.10 7:24

CONFIRMATION TODAY THAT THE LEICESTERSHIRE POLICE HAVE DONE A U-TURN ON LINKING TO THE FIND MADELEINE FUND

Madeleine McCann has re-appeared on the Leicestershire Police list of missing persons on its website.

But it's as plain as a pikestaff that the page has been entirely re-written.

The page no longer links to the McCanns' Find Madeleine Fund, and now the police - in two places - emphasise that the public should contact leicestershire Police, not the pretendy cops like Dave Edgar and Arthur Cowley.

Here's the two key extracts from their brand new 'Missing Persons' page:

At the heart of this inquiry is an innocent little girl. Our focus remains on doing everything we can to assist the Portuguese police to find out what has happened to Madeleine. If you have any information please contact your local police.

How to contact us

If you have information about any crime, you can contact us on Leicester (0116) 222 2222.

by **Jill Havern** 09.09.10 7:39

Tony Bennett wrote:
At the heart of this inquiry is an innocent little girl.

Why the need to say "innocent" little girl? Maddie was only three years old when she was left alone to her fate with her baby brother and sister...what could she possibly be guilty of?

by **Tony Bennett** 09.09.10 9:37

jkh wrote:
Tony Bennett, quoting Leicestershire Police's website, wrote:
At the heart of this inquiry is an innocent little girl.

Why the need to say "innocent" little girl? Maddie was only three years old when she was left alone to her fate with her baby brother and sister...what could she possibly be guilty of?

Well, at least Leicestershire Police didn't say: "At the heart of this inquiry is an innocent family".

by Autumn 09.09.10 12:38

Tony Bennett wrote:

The page no longer links to the McCanns' Find Madeleine Fund, and now the police - in two places - emphasise that the public should contact leicestershire Police, not the pretendy cops like Dave Edgar and Arthur Cowley.

Thats great news :yahoo: The McCanns will be none too happy about this as, from the outset, they have done their utmost to control the investigation and get their hands on as much information as they could. Even though it has taken LP 3 years to remove the links, this is a welcome step in the right direction and a clear indication that the McCanns are losing credibility. Well done Tony for keeping the pressure on the LP and to all who have contacted the police objecting to the website links thumbsup

by **Tony Bennett** 09.09.10 14:44

'Chaosraptors' has put up a provocative - and provocatively-titled - article titled 'Hating the McCanns the Joana Morais Way'.

Certain matters relating to The Madeleine Foundation have been misrepsented within that article so here for the record is a comment I have just sent them (not yet published):

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

QUOTE

Yes, Madeleine McCann has been restored, after a few days, to the list of officially missing persons on the Leicestershire Police website.

But now there are TWO crucial differences between the previous page and the one put up by Leics Police last night, after some cleaning up:

1. Their page no longer links to the McCanns' fund-raising website, Find Madeleine - and

2. Their page now - and rightly - asks the public to contact Leicestershire Police with information, and not, er, Metodo 3, Francisco Marco, Oakley International, Kevin Halligen, Dave Edgar, Arthur Cowley etc.

By the way, The Madeleine Foundation does not claim the credit for this very significant change of policy by Leics Police.

Many people have protested about the previous situation of Leics Police inviting the public to donate to the McCanns and give information to them not to the police.

What we do say - and this is a matter of public record - is that we have continually raised this subject with both Leicestershire Police and the Home Office over the past two years, and we've asked FOI questions of Leics Police and encouraged others to do so. We cannot say what effect these may have had.

Tony Bennett
Secretary
The Madeleine Foundation

UNQUOTE

by ufercoffy 09.09.10 18:41

Tony Bennett wrote:'Chaosraptors' has put up a provocative - and provocatively-titled - article titled 'Hating the McCanns the Joana Morais Way'.

I don't know what's come over Joana Morais lately, she can be extremely rude to fellow anti's. Just the other day she was rude to IRONSIDE and even made a video for her. Not sure what's gone on there but Ironside is very poorly at the moment and didn't deserve that attack from Morais.

Not sure about the title being 'Hating the McCanns the Joana Morais Way' because she can hate anyone who gets in her way.

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